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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Economic nightmare scenario
Wednesday, February 6, 2008 10:45 AM
SIGNYM
I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.
Wednesday, February 6, 2008 10:53 AM
Wednesday, February 6, 2008 10:59 AM
CHRISISALL
Wednesday, February 6, 2008 11:16 AM
FLETCH2
Quote: I view derivatives as time bombs, both for the parties that deal in them and the economic system. Basically these instruments call for money to change hands at some future date, with the amount to be determined by one or more reference items, such as interest rates, stock prices, or currency values. For example, if you are either long or short an S&P 500 futures contract, you are a party to a very simple derivatives transaction, with your gain or loss derived from movements in the index. Derivatives contracts are of varying duration, running sometimes to 20 or more years, and their value is often tied to several variables. Unless derivatives contracts are collateralized or guaranteed, their ultimate value also depends on the creditworthiness of the counter-parties to them. But before a contract is settled, the counter-parties record profits and losses – often huge in amount – in their current earnings statements without so much as a penny changing hands. Reported earnings on derivatives are often wildly overstated. That’s because today’s earnings are in a significant way based on estimates whose inaccuracy may not be exposed for many years. The errors usually reflect the human tendency to take an optimistic view of one’s commitments. But the parties to derivatives also have enormous incentives to cheat in accounting for them. Those who trade derivatives are usually paid, in whole or part, on “earnings” calculated by mark-to-market accounting. But often there is no real market, and “mark-to-model” is utilized. This substitution can bring on large-scale mischief. As a general rule, contracts involving multiple reference items and distant settlement dates increase the opportunities for counter-parties to use fanciful assumptions. The two parties to the contract might well use differing models allowing both to show substantial profits for many years. In extreme cases, mark-to-model degenerates into what I would call mark-to-myth. I can assure you that the marking errors in the derivatives business have not been symmetrical. Almost invariably, they have favored either the trader who was eyeing a multi-million dollar bonus or the CEO who wanted to report impressive “earnings” (or both). The bonuses were paid, and the CEO profited from his options. Only much later did shareholders learn that the reported earnings were a sham. Another problem about derivatives is that they can exacerbate trouble that a corporation has run into for completely unrelated reasons. This pile-on effect occurs because many derivatives contracts require that a company suffering a credit downgrade immediately supply collateral to counter-parties. Imagine then that a company is downgraded because of general adversity and that its derivatives instantly kick in with their requirement, imposing an unexpected and enormous demand for cash collateral on the company. The need to meet this demand can then throw the company into a liquidity crisis that may, in some cases, trigger still more downgrades. It all becomes a spiral that can lead to a corporate meltdown. Derivatives also create a daisy-chain risk that is akin to the risk run by insurers or reinsurers that lay off much of their business with others. In both cases, huge receivables from many counter-parties tend to build up over time. A participant may see himself as prudent, believing his large credit exposures to be diversified and therefore not dangerous. However under certain circumstances, an exogenous event that causes the receivable from Company A to go bad will also affect those from Companies B through Z. In banking, the recognition of a “linkage” problem was one of the reasons for the formation of the Federal Reserve System. Before the Fed was established, the failure of weak banks would sometimes put sudden and unanticipated liquidity demands on previously-strong banks, causing them to fail in turn. The Fed now insulates the strong from the troubles of the weak. But there is no central bank assigned to the job of preventing the dominoes toppling in insurance or derivatives. In these industries, firms that are fundamentally solid can become troubled simply because of the travails of other firms further down the chain. Many people argue that derivatives reduce systemic problems, in that participants who can’t bear certain risks are able to transfer them to stronger hands. These people believe that derivatives act to stabilize the economy, facilitate trade, and eliminate bumps for individual participants. On a micro level, what they say is often true. I believe, however, that the macro picture is dangerous and getting more so. Large amounts of risk, particularly credit risk, have become concentrated in the hands of relatively few derivatives dealers, who in addition trade extensively with one other. The troubles of one could quickly infect the others. On top of that, these dealers are owed huge amounts by non-dealer counter-parties. Some of these counter-parties, are linked in ways that could cause them to run into a problem because of a single event, such as the implosion of the telecom industry. Linkage, when it suddenly surfaces, can trigger serious systemic problems. Indeed, in 1998, the leveraged and derivatives-heavy activities of a single hedge fund, Long-Term Capital Management, caused the Federal Reserve anxieties so severe that it hastily orchestrated a rescue effort. In later Congressional testimony, Fed officials acknowledged that, had they not intervened, the outstanding trades of LTCM – a firm unknown to the general public and employing only a few hundred people – could well have posed a serious threat to the stability of American markets. In other words, the Fed acted because its leaders were fearful of what might have happened to other financial institutions had the LTCM domino toppled. And this affair, though it paralyzed many parts of the fixed-income market for weeks, was far from a worst-case scenario. One of the derivatives instruments that LTCM used was total-return swaps, contracts that facilitate 100% leverage in various markets, including stocks. For example, Party A to a contract, usually a bank, puts up all of the money for the purchase of a stock while Party B, without putting up any capital, agrees that at a future date it will receive any gain or pay any loss that the bank realizes. Total-return swaps of this type make a joke of margin requirements. Beyond that, other types of derivatives severely curtail the ability of regulators to curb leverage and generally get their arms around the risk profiles of banks, insurers and other financial institutions. Similarly, even experienced investors and analysts encounter major problems in analyzing the financial condition of firms that are heavily involved with derivatives contracts. The derivatives genie is now well out of the bottle, and these instruments will almost certainly multiply in variety and number until some event makes their toxicity clear. Central banks and governments have so far found no effective way to control, or even monitor, the risks posed by these contracts. In my view, derivatives are financial weapons of mass destruction, carrying dangers that, while now latent, are potentially lethal.
Wednesday, February 6, 2008 11:18 AM
Wednesday, February 6, 2008 11:24 AM
Wednesday, February 6, 2008 11:28 AM
Wednesday, February 6, 2008 11:35 AM
Quote:Originally posted by SignyM: Where should I send my $0.02?
Wednesday, February 6, 2008 11:38 AM
RUE
I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!
Wednesday, February 6, 2008 11:51 AM
Quote:Originally posted by rue: LOTR - best NZ ad ever !
Wednesday, February 6, 2008 12:07 PM
Wednesday, February 6, 2008 12:24 PM
Wednesday, February 6, 2008 2:05 PM
KIRKULES
Quote:Originally posted by SignyM: ABS, MBS, CMBS, CMO, CDO, CBO, and CLO are subset of what are generally characterized as structured products. Below is what the acronyms stand for. MBS = Mortgage-Backed Securities, and the universe of MBS is vast, it is however reserved by market participants to denote the pass-through mortgage bonds (agency pass-through and nonagency pass-through). CMBS = Commercial Mortgage-Backed Securities, which are trust certificates (bonds) backed by a pool of commercial mortgage loans. The certificates are tranched on the basis of prepayment and credit. CMO = Collateralized Mortgage-backed Obligations, which are pool of pass-through mortgage bonds tranched to reflect the degree of sensitivity to prepayment (particularly, agency CMO). ABS = Asset Backed Securities, for example home equity loans (HEL), credit cards, etc. These are securities backed by receivables [payments] that are either secured (HEL) or unsecured (credit card), tranched on the basis of prepayment and default risks. CDO = Collateralized Debt Obligation, for example, ABS CDO which consist of a portfolio of different ABS bonds, and the payments to the holders of these trust certificates are derived from the cash flows of the ABS bonds. CBO = Collateralized Bond Obligation, for example high yield [emerging market] CBO which consist of a portfolio of different high yield [emerging market] bonds. CLO = Collateralized [leveraged] Loan Obligation which consist of a portfolio of different leveraged loans
Wednesday, February 6, 2008 2:25 PM
Quote:Originally posted by chrisisall: Signy, if it happens as written, it won't be literally overnight, so expect the conservative element here to spend a lot of time poo-pooing it- until they lose their jobs or homes, that is. The sky needs supports Chrisisall
Wednesday, February 6, 2008 3:01 PM
FREDGIBLET
Quote:Originally posted by Kirkules: All we can do is hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
Thursday, February 7, 2008 4:07 AM
Quote:Originally posted by fredgiblet: Indeed, the problem that I see is that all too often the conservatives seem to think that we should prepare for the best and ignore the worst, even if it happens.
Thursday, February 7, 2008 4:59 AM
HERO
Quote:Originally posted by chrisisall: Signy, if it happens as written, it won't be literally overnight, so expect the conservative element here to spend a lot of time poo-pooing it- until they lose their jobs or homes, that is.
Thursday, February 7, 2008 5:25 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Hero: and life to live.
Thursday, February 7, 2008 6:34 AM
Quote:Originally posted by chrisisall: You'll see mister. Ten years from now when you feel the strain, and have to fix something on your car as opposed to just replacing it....and you get an aftermarket part 'cause they don't MAKE your car anymore....and gas is $8 a gallon...
Thursday, February 7, 2008 6:38 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Hero: 3. Ten years from now I'll be on my fourth new car...and it'll be under warranty...the good Japanese warranty.
Thursday, February 7, 2008 8:41 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Hero: Quote:Originally posted by chrisisall: Signy, if it happens as written, it won't be literally overnight, so expect the conservative element here to spend a lot of time poo-pooing it- until they lose their jobs or homes, that is. Good point. If you believe there is going to be a crash...go to amazon.com, type in 'Crash' and you'll see a bunch of books telling you how to survive or profit from the coming global crash. Sure, most were about the crashes that never happened...but just buying the book will make you feel better. Only a disaster that is external to the market and global in scope will cause the crash you refer to. So go ahead and play Chicken Little all you want...I've got work to do, money to make, things to buy, and life to live. H
Thursday, February 7, 2008 10:20 PM
6IXSTRINGJACK
Friday, February 8, 2008 1:50 AM
FREMDFIRMA
Saturday, March 1, 2008 3:20 PM
JAYNEZTOWN
Saturday, March 1, 2008 6:57 PM
CANTTAKESKY
Saturday, March 1, 2008 9:11 PM
Monday, March 3, 2008 9:58 PM
Tuesday, March 4, 2008 7:00 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Fremdfirma: To be blunt, to someone like me it looks like a house of cards built on a table of tissuepaper fiction, and someone just opened a window.
Saturday, September 30, 2023 7:31 AM
Thursday, December 7, 2023 10:34 AM
Thursday, December 7, 2023 10:53 AM
Thursday, December 7, 2023 11:06 AM
THG
Thursday, December 7, 2023 11:24 AM
SECOND
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
Quote:Originally posted by 6ixStringJack: That's just bad news all around. Wind and Solar are bullshit hobbyist projects. If we want to ever go green the only viable solution we have right now is nuclear. Somebody needs to intervene and make sure that plant gets built, or we're going to have a bunch of $60,000 paperweight coal burning cars taking up space in people's garages and a lot of old people dying when the A/C gets shut off on the really hot days.
Thursday, December 7, 2023 12:54 PM
Quote:Originally posted by THUGR: Poor signym. For decades she has predicted the fall of America in one form or another. So far always wrong signym has a perfect record. She is always wrong. Just too funny...
Sunday, June 23, 2024 3:08 PM
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