Iran To Imprison & Whip Old Man For Walking His Dog by Jongsstraw

I just don't understand why any so-called civilized country can support and do business with these people. This is worse to me than Michael Vick. I can't imagine a 70 year old man, someone's grandpa, getting 30 lashes...he probably won't live past 10. Amazing cruelty & barbarity on display for all the world to see. Maybe Sean Penn will fly over and do a photo-shoot of the event. This is the world the Islamists want for all of us, or at least for those that they don't kill immediately. This is their dream...a Taliban/Nazi sick medieval world of brutal control, slavery and death. And some also say all this "terror" stuff is a bumper sticker, or fear-mongering...or the politics of fear. Well every single day I see what they do, and I do believe it's damn real.

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Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:01 AM

SERGEANTX

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I just don't understand why any so-called civilized country can support and do business with these people. This is worse to me than Michael Vick. I can't imagine a 70 year old man, someone's grandpa, getting 30 lashes...he probably won't live past 10.

I'd be willing to bet there are some 70 year-olds waiting to die our prisons for non-violent drug offenses. The point some of us are trying to make is, we wish you people who wanna get all worked up about injustices half a world away would help up us clean up our own backyard. I care a helluva lot more about people suffering in this country than I do about Iranians - people I don't know, don't share a common culture with, and frankly don't understand.

Quote:
This is the world the Islamists want for all of us, or at least for those that they don't kill immediately. This is their dream...a Taliban/Nazi sick medieval world of brutal control, slavery and death. And some also say all this "terror" stuff is a bumper sticker, or fear-mongering...or the politics of fear.

Yup, that's exactly what it is. They wanna scare us, or make us mad, or righteously indignant, or whatever so we'll go over there and die to protect their access middle-east to oil. Fuck that. No culture as backasswards as the one they Islamic fundamentalists want to create will ever be a serious threat to our nation. Let them create whatever kind of screwed up theocracy they want.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:09 AM

I just did an internet search on this story, and found only Adnkronos.com, Fox news quoting Adnkronos.com, and a host of internet blogs....

Is it possible that Adnkronos.com is the Italian version of Pirate News?

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

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Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:15 AM

SICKDUDE

Gotta feel sorry for all those Iranian dogs, though. Just waiting by the door, all cross-legged....

Certainly this is messed up. But in my opinion, one of the things we do wrong is then go and back up an equally barbaric rebel who is trying to grab power away from the sitting theocracy. Then the locals start to equate US intervention with "making things worse". It seems to me that, left alone for a bit, the people under this kind of oppression would rise up on their own eventually.

"Your gratuitous jello awaits." - Dr. Helen Magnus, Sanctuary

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Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
I just did an internet search on this story, and found only Adnkronos.com, Fox news quoting Adnkronos.com, and a host of internet blogs....

Is it possible that Adnkronos.com is the Italian version of Pirate News?

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

Well I hope it's not.
If it is , then I apologize for posting it here.

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Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:21 AM

Actually I kinda hope it is, and no apology necessary... like anytime I hear bad news I hope someone has gotten the message wrong.

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

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Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I just don't understand why any so-called civilized country can support and do business with these people.

We support and do business with Israel, China, Russia, and plenty of other countries that commit this type of oppression on both innocent individuals and groups.

Then, just so we can pull the log out of our own eye, we should look at all the 70 year olds we've imprisoned at home (as Sarge said) and all the 70 year olds we've helped oppress in other countries by giving their governments money and other "non-lethal" aid, past and present.

I simply don't see how we can claim any moral high ground on this.

--------------------------
What the world needs is not dogma but an attitude of scientific inquiry combined with a belief that the torture of millions is not desirable, whether inflicted by Stalin or by a Deity imagined in the likeness of the believer.
--Bertrand Russell

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Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sickdude:
Gotta feel sorry for all those Iranian dogs, though. Just waiting by the door, all cross-legged....

Certainly this is messed up. But in my opinion, one of the things we do wrong is then go and back up an equally barbaric rebel who is trying to grab power away from the sitting theocracy. Then the locals start to equate US intervention with "making things worse". It seems to me that, left alone for a bit, the people under this kind of oppression would rise up on their own eventually.

"Your gratuitous jello awaits." - Dr. Helen Magnus, Sanctuary

Biggest problem is back in the days the Shah ran Iran, the US helped suppress anybody who even thought about rising up, except the religious radicals to prevent it from becoming a holy war.

Not sure what the best solution would be, but constant threats and sabre rattling as has been the norm with US / Iran relations only helps to unify them against the foreign invader.

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

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Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I just don't understand why any so-called civilized country can support and do business with these people.
We support and do business with Israel, China, Russia, and plenty of other countries that commit this type of oppression on both innocent individuals and groups.

Then, just so we can pull the log out of our own eye, we should look at all the 70 year olds we've imprisoned at home (as Sarge said) and all the 70 year olds we've helped oppress in other countries by giving their governments money and other "non-lethal" aid, past and present.

I simply don't see how we can claim any moral high ground on this.

--------------------------
What the world needs is not dogma but an attitude of scientific inquiry combined with a belief that the torture of millions is not desirable, whether inflicted by Stalin or by a Deity imagined in the likeness of the believer.
--Bertrand Russell

Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait.... even in a solely regional basis if one makes a stand against Iran without looking closely at these allies it looks like politics and nothing more.

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

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Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Is it possible that Adnkronos.com is the Italian version of Pirate News?

I can't say for sure, but I don't think so. They have news reports on all topics (finance, politics, sports, etc), including horoscopes, recipes, and a TV Guide. Looks like a regular full service news site to me.

Plus I don't see any crude, photoshopped pictures a la PN and National Enquirer.

Of course, the only way to be sure is have someone who is fluent in Italian to make sure those articles are relatively objective. I have some passing familiarity, but no where near enough to make those finer discernments.

--------------------------
The chance is high that the truth lies in the fashionable direction. But, on the off chance that it is in another direction--a direction obvious from an unfashionable view of field theory--who will find it? Only someone who has sacrificed himself by teaching himself quantum electrodynamics from a peculiar and unfashionable point of view; one that he may have to invent for himself.
--Richard Feynman, Nobel Lecture, (11 December 1965)

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Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
I simply don't see how we can claim any moral high ground on this.-----------

You really can't? That's pretty hard to believe!
There may be 70 year-olds in prison in America, but I would guess theye're in there because they were tried and convicted by a jury of a crime. I also know they're not getting lashed to death over walking a dog....You cannot possibly draw a moral equivalency here, not with a straight face anyhow.

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Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
I simply don't see how we can claim any moral high ground on this.-----------

You really can't? That's pretty hard to believe!
There may be 70 year-olds in prison in America, but I would guess theye're in there because they were tried and convicted by a jury of a crime. I also know they're not getting lashed to death over walking a dog....You cannot possibly draw a moral equivalency here, not with a straight face anyhow.

Unless equal action is taken in other cases such as

http://archive.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE230132007?open&of=ENG-S
AU

http://archive.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGMDE310092007?open&of=ENG-Y
EM

http://archive.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE150662007?open&of=ENG-2
MD

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

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Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
There may be 70 year-olds in prison in America, but I would guess theye're in there because they were tried and convicted by a jury of a crime. I also know they're not getting lashed to death over walking a dog....You cannot possibly draw a moral equivalency here, not with a straight face anyhow.

First of all, the article doesn't say anything about being lashed to death. It says 30 lashes.

Secondly, this man was also convicted of a crime by the Iranian justice system and was sentenced for it.

The dispute is that we Americans find the idea of dog-walking as crime to be barbaric. We are further shocked that the sentence should be so harsh considering the man's age.

However, Americans have laws making non-violent victimless actions criminal as well. And we also sometimes levee unreasonably harsh sentences for things that maybe should not have been a crime in the first place.

Didn't we recently talk about the kid who went to prison for getting a blowjob?

Or how about this sentence?

http://sentencing.typepad.com/sentencing_law_and_policy/2007/06/seekin
g_thought.html

You've got to know things like that happen all the time. And just because we are used to thinking of it as a crime doesn't make it any more criminal than walking a dog where dogs are offensive.

Quote:
Some have criticized the United States for incarcerating a large number of non-violent and victimless offenders; half of all persons incarcerated under state jurisdiction are for non-violent offences, and 20% are incarcerated for drug offences. "Human Rights Watch believes the extraordinary rate of incarceration in the United States wreaks havoc on individuals, families and communities, and saps the strength of the nation as a whole."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisons_in_the_United_States

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Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
There may be 70 year-olds in prison in America, but I would guess theye're in there because they were tried and convicted by a jury of a crime. I also know they're not getting lashed to death over walking a dog....You cannot possibly draw a moral equivalency here, not with a straight face anyhow.

First of all, the article doesn't say anything about being lashed to death. It says 30 lashes.

Secondly, this man was also convicted of a crime by the Iranian justice system and was sentenced for it.

I believe 30 lashes on 70 year-old is a death sentence, or will leave the poor man near death.
Second...no power in the verse is ever gonna be able to convince me, or spin me, or get me to accept yours or anybody else's argumentative obtuseness on this......Walking a dog cannot be a corporal punishment crime in the eyes of any civilized society. If he broke some absurd law about dogs due to their "impure nature" ( whatever the hell that means,)then jail him, but lashing him is just beyond the pale of any rational person.

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Thursday, February 21, 2008 11:13 AM

Jong,

Corporal punishment is not used in America to begin with, so it would be hard for most Americans to wrap their head around lashings, esp for non-violent crime, esp for a "crime" that Americans do every day. I am not excusing lashings, but we American convict and deliver our own brand of punishment for crimes that people in other countries find shocking as well. You can tell yourself that Americans don't do anything just as bad, but I submit that is a biased judgment.

One further point. As Gina pointed out, we associate ourselves all the time with countries that DO use corporal punishment in excess or for unjust reasons. Remember the caning that American boy got for littering in Singapore? Well, littering is apparently as offensive to Singaporians as dog poop is to Iranians. Yet we are still quite friendly with Singapore. So again, I don't see where we get to be so judgmental when our regular "friends" do almost exactly the same thing, and we say nothing. Again, it shows our bias--our very very *obtuse* bias, if you ask me.

We're not in any position to point fingers.

--------------------------
You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
--Matthew 7:5, Bible

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Thursday, February 21, 2008 11:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Jong,

Corporal punishment is not used in America to begin with, so it would be hard for most Americans to wrap their head around lashings, esp for non-violent crime, esp for a "crime" that Americans do every day. I am not excusing lashings, but we American convict and deliver our own brand of punishment for crimes that people in other countries find shocking as well. You can tell yourself that Americans don't do anything just as bad, but I submit that is a biased judgment.

One further point. As Gina pointed out, we associate ourselves all the time with countries that DO use corporal punishment in excess or for unjust reasons. Remember the caning that American boy got for littering in Singapore? Well, littering is apparently as offensive to Singaporians as dog poop is to Iranians. Yet we are still quite friendly with Singapore. So again, I don't see where we get to be so judgmental when our regular "friends" do almost exactly the same thing, and we say nothing. Again, it shows our bias--our very very *obtuse* bias, if you ask me.

We're not in any position to point fingers.

--------------------------
You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
--Matthew 7:5, Bible

I respect your opinion. I agree about the Singapore incident. I didn't post the story looking for, or even expecting any opposition to my position. Good debate, thanks.

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Thursday, February 21, 2008 11:31 AM

I think one way for the west to deal with such issues should be purely economical, and not in a way the government has any say.

If the media raised awareness over issues, such as this one, or the abuse of animals in China, or any other issue which highlights actions which to our culture would deem unacceptable.

The second step would be to mark imports with the country of origin, so people can know where the things they purchase come from. With bulk products such as gasoline, perhaps gas stations should have a chart stating the percentage purchase from where.

Having such incidents come out would then become economically undesirable, and I bet would then decrease. No politics, No embargos, No bullshit... everyone gets to make up there own minds to a point.

And of course US product would face the same sort of idea in their export markets.

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

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Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:00 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Corporal punishment is not used in America to begin with

Unless you're a child.

But you can be fined for beating your dog.

Not only do we legally and socially consider em subhuman, but less even than a pet.

Anyone who doesn't have a problem with beating a child into submission to an adults will shouldn't have one with this little incident here, cause it's the same damn thing.

NOW do you get the point ?

-F

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Monday, May 6, 2019 8:46 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

US deploys aircraft carrier and bombers after 'troubling indications' from Iran

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/06/us-deploys-aircraft-carr
ier-and-bombers-after-troubling-indications-from-iran?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

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Monday, May 6, 2019 11:43 AM