REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Global cooling on the rise!

POSTED BY: CREVANREAVER
UPDATED: Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:19
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VIEWED: 4118
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Wednesday, February 27, 2008 1:17 PM

CREVANREAVER


Quote:

Over the past year, anecdotal evidence for a cooling planet has exploded. China has its coldest winter in 100 years. Baghdad sees its first snow in all recorded history. North America has the most snowcover in 50 years, with places like Wisconsin the highest since record-keeping began. Record levels of Antarctic sea ice, record cold in Minnesota, Texas, Florida, Mexico, Australia, Iran, Greece, South Africa, Greenland, Argentina, Chile -- the list goes on and on.

No more than anecdotal evidence, to be sure. But now, that evidence has been supplanted by hard scientific fact. All four major global temperature tracking outlets (Hadley, NASA's GISS, UAH, RSS) have released updated data. All show that over the past year, global temperatures have dropped precipitously.

A compiled list of all the sources can be seen here. The total amount of cooling ranges from 0.65C up to 0.75C -- a value large enough to wipe out nearly all the warming recorded over the past 100 years. All in one year's time. For all four sources, it's the single fastest temperature change ever recorded, either up or down.

Scientists quoted in a past DailyTech article link the cooling to reduced solar activity which they claim is a much larger driver of climate change than man-made greenhouse gases. The dramatic cooling seen in just 12 months time seems to bear that out. While the data doesn't itself disprove that carbon dioxide is acting to warm the planet, it does demonstrate clearly that more powerful factors are now cooling it.

Let's hope those factors stop fast. Cold is more damaging than heat. The mean temperature of the planet is about 54 degrees. Humans -- and most of the crops and animals we depend on -- prefer a temperature closer to 70.

Historically, the warm periods such as the Medieval Climate Optimum were beneficial for civilization. Corresponding cooling events such as the Little Ice Age, though, were uniformly bad news.



http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monitors+Report+Worldwide+Global+
Cooling/article10866.htm


Quote:

Snow cover over North America and much of Siberia, Mongolia and China is greater than at any time since 1966.

The U.S. National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) reported that many American cities and towns suffered record cold temperatures in January and early February. According to the NCDC, the average temperature in January "was -0.3 F cooler than the 1901-2000 (20th century) average."

China is surviving its most brutal winter in a century. Temperatures in the normally balmy south were so low for so long that some middle-sized cities went days and even weeks without electricity because once power lines had toppled it was too cold or too icy to repair them.

There have been so many snow and ice storms in Ontario and Quebec in the past two months that the real estate market has felt the pinch as home buyers have stayed home rather than venturing out looking for new houses.

In just the first two weeks of February, Toronto received 70 cm of snow, smashing the record of 66.6 cm for the entire month set back in the pre-SUV, pre-Kyoto, pre-carbon footprint days of 1950.

And remember the Arctic Sea ice? The ice we were told so hysterically last fall had melted to its "lowest levels on record? Never mind that those records only date back as far as 1972 and that there is anthropological and geological evidence of much greater melts in the past.

The ice is back.

Gilles Langis, a senior forecaster with the Canadian Ice Service in Ottawa, says the Arctic winter has been so severe the ice has not only recovered, it is actually 10 to 20 cm thicker in many places than at this time last year.

OK, so one winter does not a climate make. It would be premature to claim an Ice Age is looming just because we have had one of our most brutal winters in decades.

But if environmentalists and environment reporters can run around shrieking about the manmade destruction of the natural order every time a robin shows up on Georgian Bay two weeks early, then it is at least fair game to use this winter's weather stories to wonder whether the alarmist are being a tad premature.

And it's not just anecdotal evidence that is piling up against the climate-change dogma.

According to Robert Toggweiler of the Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory at Princeton University and Joellen Russell, assistant professor of biogeochemical dynamics at the University of Arizona -- two prominent climate modellers -- the computer models that show polar ice-melt cooling the oceans, stopping the circulation of warm equatorial water to northern latitudes and triggering another Ice Age (a la the movie The Day After Tomorrow) are all wrong.

"We missed what was right in front of our eyes," says Prof. Russell. It's not ice melt but rather wind circulation that drives ocean currents northward from the tropics. Climate models until now have not properly accounted for the wind's effects on ocean circulation, so researchers have compensated by over-emphasizing the role of manmade warming on polar ice melt.

But when Profs. Toggweiler and Russell rejigged their model to include the 40-year cycle of winds away from the equator (then back towards it again), the role of ocean currents bringing warm southern waters to the north was obvious in the current Arctic warming.

Last month, Oleg Sorokhtin, a fellow of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences, shrugged off manmade climate change as "a drop in the bucket." Showing that solar activity has entered an inactive phase, Prof. Sorokhtin advised people to "stock up on fur coats."

He is not alone. Kenneth Tapping of our own National Research Council, who oversees a giant radio telescope focused on the sun, is convinced we are in for a long period of severely cold weather if sunspot activity does not pick up soon.

The last time the sun was this inactive, Earth suffered the Little Ice Age that lasted about five centuries and ended in 1850. Crops failed through killer frosts and drought. Famine, plague and war were widespread. Harbours froze, so did rivers, and trade ceased.

It's way too early to claim the same is about to happen again, but then it's way too early for the hysteria of the global warmers, too.



http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=332289

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Wednesday, February 27, 2008 1:45 PM

ANTIMASON


hmm.... well wheres ol' Rue at, im sure theres gotta be some global warming advocate who contests this research. personally, this is another example, in my mind, that shows to what degree the MM global warming theory has become propaganda, for a specific political agenda, rather then evidence based on actual data. i dont base that merely off these findings, but again it fits well into our theory that global warming activists are full of shit.

in the end, when it comes to weather forecasting, given that even local meteorologists lack accuracy, i tend to take everything i hear with a grain of salt... but at least this is encouraging

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Wednesday, February 27, 2008 2:03 PM

CREVANREAVER


Here's a site on the global warming swindle:

http://www.greatglobalwarmingswindle.com/index.html


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Wednesday, February 27, 2008 2:10 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by antimason:
but again it fits well into our theory that global warming activists are full of shit.


Antimason, you are such a *While we have an open policy concerning messages, please be civil when responding to others.*!!!
In your simplistic mind "Global Warming" means that it should steadily be getting "warmer", huh?
Like the Guardian Of Forever said to Spock, your science is obviously very limited.



Read a bookisall

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Wednesday, February 27, 2008 2:15 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by CrevanReaver:
Here's a site on the global warming swindle:

http://www.greatglobalwarmingswindle.com/index.html


Excuse the Hell outta me, but there's no facts much less arguments there, it's just "It's not true- we said so...".

I HATE when peeps w/no background in science manifest their vast array of knowledge on the subject regardless.

Chrisisall, PhDuh

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Wednesday, February 27, 2008 9:01 PM

AVENGINGWATCHER


I love how people take one disconnected fact and attempt to disprove what 99% of climate scientists say is happening. I guess all the ice melting over the caps is because the temperature is going down right? If you'll care to actually take a look at the picture of the climate data you'll notice that there are more than one occasion where there is a brief but sudden drop of temperature followed by a steady increase over a few years. This if anything supports the theory of global climate change, the name being changed because people were ignorant of the science behind the wording so were misconstruing it meaning. Global warming/climate change whatever you'd like to call it is cyclical, however, were are currently increasing the temperature of the planet far faster than would be seen naturally and it is without the normal natural trigger of massive volcanic eruption. However if you'd really like to continue this "debate" by all means, however this will be a long debate, well it will last for at least 4 more years anyways.

when there are no heroes where will we turn?

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Thursday, February 28, 2008 2:38 AM

BADKARMA00


The way I see it, as long as Al Gore doesn't live like Global Warming is a threat, then I don't have to either! lol

He invented Global Warming, you know. Just like the internet. Ain't Al something?



Bad_karma
Great and Exalted Grand Pooba, International Brotherhood of Moonshiners, Rednecks, and Good Old Boys.

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Thursday, February 28, 2008 4:07 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by avengingwatcher:
If you'll care to actually take a look at the picture of the climate data you'll notice that there are more than one occasion where there is a brief but sudden drop of temperature followed by a steady increase over a few years.


Happens in Spring to.

While I agree that portions of the Earth have undergone cooling in recent months...I predict a net rise in temperatures...perhaps by fifty degrees or more in some places...at least through July. This will cause substantial melting of ice and snow and even trigger mass migrations, spark radical flourising of plant and animal life and changes in the sleeping habits of bears. There will also be baseball.

However, the historical record shows that after this period of intense warming that trend will reverse itself next fall.

H

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Thursday, February 28, 2008 7:19 AM

AVENGINGWATCHER


Badkarma, I agree with you that Al Gore should practice what he preaches, it's also funny that he left out the single greatest cause of greenhouse gas in the States is the meat industry.

Hero, again nothing any of you have said repudiates the fact that global warming is happening. I wish we could just combine these posts because it is essentially the same thing as the other one that was started by you.

Reaver, I took a look at that site you offered and it sounds convincing until you actually do research beyond what it says on his site. One of the people who the author of the site cites is actually an entomologist, that means he studies bugs for a living, not the climate, and while this doesn't necessarily exclude his opinion from the debate, it is essentially like taking a lawnmower repairman's opinion over an ASE certified auto mechanic when it comes to your car, and in that same argument they use the "mad cow scare", couldn't it be that maybe the precautions that were put in place worked, causing avoidance of the problem. He continues on to use arguments from the 1970's when most people did not agree with global warming, because well.. our understanding wasn't as good as it is now.

when there are no heroes where will we turn?

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Thursday, February 28, 2008 8:04 AM

RIGHTEOUS9



Jesus Christ...

it's fucking hilarious that you guys mischaracterize the predictions of how global warming effects the planet, and then you pull out your oh so common "sense" for the sake of disproving your own mischaracterization.

could you stop with the bullshit already? If you are going to refute global warming at least refute the theory as it stands...we don't need you to tell us how flawed your own bullshit is, that just takes common sense.

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Thursday, February 28, 2008 8:46 AM

ANTIMASON


i was specific when i said "man made" global warming, i believe, is a crock of S---. my reasons are very simple: we have only seen a .7 degree avg increase over the last 100 yrs, which could be due to any number of factors. maybe, its a natural cycle, which needs to work itself out, rather then be "controlled". in some cases, a volcano eruption alone dwarfs the kind of emmissions a country might produce in a given amount of time. maybe we should prevent volcano eruptions? given that the planet requires CO2 to produce oxygen, and that various natural processes are constantly at work to accommodate and balance this, i almost fail to see the concern. the greenest periods in earth history have been recorded under high CO2 concentrations. the bigger story seems to be how GW activists just arent content with self responsibility, but want to use the strong arm of government and collectivism to control other peoples lives as well

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Thursday, February 28, 2008 9:10 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Righteous9:
could you stop with the bullshit already? If you are going to refute global warming at least refute the theory as it stands...we don't need you to tell us how flawed your own bullshit is, that just takes common sense.


Ok. But when your side seems to argue that both cold weather and warm weather are your proof, then its a bit hard to talk facts.

Mankind's emissions are negligible compared to your average volcano and other naturally produced emissions.

The fact is that extremes in weather are hardly extreme. Weather patterns are cyclical. Thats why we had bunches of hurricanes in the 30's but not many in the 50's. Thats why we had a lot one year...including Katrina (which was only notable because of its location, not its size or strength)...and NONE the next year, despite the dire predictions of nearly everybody who believes the global warming theory. Thats why we have record hot days and weeks and a net reduction in temperature for a given year. Thats why we get a drought one year and plenty of rain the next ten. 1988 in central PA is a good example, or western Ohio in 2003. Thats why there are more of the warmest years on record in the 1930s then the last decade.

I read a news story about walruses. Ice is melting and they are dying. It then pointed out this was more disturbing because of their record numbers. It concluded by pointing out how old their species is and how they've lived through both the prior ice ages and the prior extremely warm periods...because they are adaptable.

Our approach to enviromental protection makes no sense either. For example, how can preventing a new power plant help the enviroment? A new, modern plant built with 21st Century technology and with envirmental tax incentives will be cleaner and more efficient then the current plants which are thirty years old or more. Same for oil refineries, factories, etc. Lets build new ones (great for jobs, the economy, and the energy prices) and start phasing out the old ones.

You want a clean enviroment, fine. Tax incentives, technology, and personal responsibility must lead the way. Clear cutting and strip mining can be curtailed...but there is no reason to wipe out mining and logging industries. There are sound ways to reclaim that land after its resources are harvested and before it can harm surrounding land with erosion and polluted runoff. Cooperation, science, and manipulation of the tax code can keep people employed (because who cares about a damned owl if a man can't feed his family), make industry more efficient, and make the enviroment cleaner. I'm a Republican and that's the only enviromental platform you'll see me supporting.

Although I still favor cutting down trees on Arbor Day...but unless your around in the woods that day, you probably wont hear about it.

H

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Thursday, February 28, 2008 9:39 AM

RIGHTEOUS9



Hero, I'm not a scientist, so crazy as it seems, I have to defer to the predominating wisdom on the topic by those who know it, which is that man is affecting the warming of the planet.

If I were going to use my absolute lamens "common sense" to try to rationalize what exaclty is happening and why global warming would have wacky effects across the spectrum to different parts of the world, I wouldn't have to think too hard, though like I said, I'm not a scientist, so don't take this as fact.

My guess would be, The ice caps are melting. That isn't in dispute. , that's a lot less water being protected from evaporating because of the sun, that was resting under glaciers. That's more precipitation in the air, that's more cause for snow storms, hurricanes, etc...throughout the world, none of which offsets the reality that the ICE CAPS ARE MELTING, and as far as I can see, unless they reestablish(and how would they do that unless we find a way to stop them from dissapearing) global warming is probably an irreversable trend.


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Thursday, February 28, 2008 10:09 AM

BADKARMA00


darn that double posting!

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Thursday, February 28, 2008 10:09 AM

BADKARMA00


Well, if it's irreversable, meaning there's nothing I can do about it, then I'm moving on too more weighty matters.

Like. . . . . . .college football:)

Bad_karma
Great and Exalted Grand Pooba, International Brotherhood of Moonshiners, Rednecks, and Good Old Boys.

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Thursday, February 28, 2008 10:21 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Global Warming/Cooling
Crop Circles
Ancient Astronauts
Atlantis
Nessie
Green Cheese On The Moon
Dennis Kucinich
etc, etc
All just fig-newtons of humans' imaginations.




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Thursday, February 28, 2008 10:25 AM

RIGHTEOUS9


badkarma, I appreciate that your getting closer to an honest apathy...

jong...thanks for weighing in with your wisdom.

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Thursday, February 28, 2008 10:34 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Atlantis


isall

Chrisisall

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Thursday, February 28, 2008 10:36 AM

BADKARMA00


If I thought there was really a problem, I'd be worried. But don't point to things like terrible storms and say it's proof.

Terrible storms come and go, and have thoroughout the ages.

The Earth froze over before, and apparently there were no people here, and no industry. The simple fact is that if this is a natural cycle, then there is zip all we can do about it.

Hypocrites like Al Gore spouting about the "inconvenient truth" don't make it so. And there are plenty of scientists out there who are just as firmly convinced that GW isn't real, as there are those who claim it's a disaster in the making.

Me, I choose to live on the brighter side. There will be hurricanes. There will be floods. There will be volcanoes, earthquakes, and tornadoes. And there's nothing we can do to stop them. Man cannot control nature. And the severity of the storms cannot be linked directly to 'greenhouse gases' since they've been around far longer than the gases. Gasses? Anyway.

I do think that the hysteria over GW will help get a reign on pollution, which I applaud. I worry about the water our kids drink, and the air they breathe. What I DON'T worry about, is Al Gore, and his fabrication publication.

In the meantime, it's close to spring practice, and several highly sought after high school stars still haven't signed letters of intent. This is a matter which man CAN have some control over, and will play a significant role in the fall



Bad_karma
Great and Exalted Grand Pooba, International Brotherhood of Moonshiners, Rednecks, and Good Old Boys.

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Thursday, February 28, 2008 10:46 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Atlantis


isall

Chrisisall


Just curious is all Chris..do you like the 1960 movie Atlantis, The Lost Continent? I just got the widescreen DVD.

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Thursday, February 28, 2008 10:50 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by badkarma00:

Me, I choose to live on the brighter side. There will be hurricanes. There will be floods. There will be volcanoes, earthquakes, and tornadoes.



Suddenly, by your definition of 'brighter side', I find myself confused....

Dark side after all Chrisisall

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Thursday, February 28, 2008 10:53 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Just curious is all Chris..do you like the 1960 movie Atlantis, The Lost Continent? I just got the widescreen DVD.

Wow, I haven't seen that since I was twelve...I remember it being really cool, with the miniatures and all. Then it sank

Ooop! I think I spoiled it....

Chrisisall

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Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:11 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Just curious is all Chris..do you like the 1960 movie Atlantis, The Lost Continent? I just got the widescreen DVD.


Wow, I haven't seen that since I was twelve...I remember it being really cool, with the miniatures and all. Then it sank

Ooop! I think I spoiled it....

Chrisisall


I figured you would have remembered it. A George Pal production, with a big Hollywood budget (for 1960)....the highlights :
Antillia, Princess of Atlantis
The Atlantian submarine
The Atlantian Triangle Pit where the Trial of Fire & Water took place
The Large Crystal Solar-Powered Laser Weapon
The slaves turned into man-beasts by evil potions to do heavy lifting
The gentle high priest who predicted the end (Ed Platt, aka The Chief from get Smart)
The King's advisor who read the stars (Frank de Kova, aka Chief of The Heckowis from F Troop)
Lot's of other little gems....a real treasure find for me at a recent con costing $10

Sorry for the off-topic here folks.

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Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:17 AM

BADKARMA00


Well, Chris, you got me there. LOL. That should have been put in a different spot. By brighter side, I just meant that we can't stop all those things, no matter what. So I'll just be looking to the sunny side, so to speak.

Which for me, is college football. Oh, and anything that Summer Glau is in.

Bad_karma
Great and Exalted Grand Pooba, International Brotherhood of Moonshiners, Rednecks, and Good Old Boys.

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Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:19 AM

BADKARMA00


Or anything she's NOT in, if you catch my meaning
hehehehehehehehe

Bad_karma
Great and Exalted Grand Pooba, International Brotherhood of Moonshiners, Rednecks, and Good Old Boys.

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