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Originally posted by Righteous9:

but I haven't heard anytying out of him that I disagree with yet...By the way, this view is coming from a straight white male

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Originally posted by Kirkules:
A leader is someone that stands up for their beliefs even when they are not popular in the group they are currently in.

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Originally posted by canttakesky:
What? This is what we've come to? Where a candidate might lose support because he USED to attend a church whose minister found Cone's theology inspirational? Are you serious?

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Originally posted by Righteous9:

Auraptor, are yo offended by the idea of a black Jesus? Is that really that offensive?....

are you also saying that at one point the reverend said that god was black and that at another he said blacks should reject his love?

Heh? well at least that isn't racist.

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Originally posted by canttakesky:
What? This is what we've come to? Where a candidate might lose support because he USED to attend a church whose minister found Cone's theology inspirational? Are you serious?

I used to attend a church where they taught women were beneath men, and can't even hold enough authority over boys to teach Sunday school. I went there cause they had really good music. Then I slowly became aware of the creepy sexism and left. Does that mean on this point alone, running for office is ruled out for me?

Candidates should be judged on what they believe today, not for what their former ministers used to think. Good grief.



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Politics, as a practice, whatever its professions, has always been the systematic organization of hatreds.
--Henry Adams, The Education of Henry Adams, 1907

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Originally posted by Riverlove:
...20 years with that maniac fucking racist asshole preacher of hatred and divisiveness & utter paranoid delusions & the Obamas sat there and smiled?,...that means a lot to the vast majority of Americans.

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You wanna meet the REAL Rev. Wright ???

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Originally posted by SignyM:

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You wanna meet the REAL Rev. Wright ???

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Well, since you asked...

NO

Rev Wright isn't running for office.

And if you really want to know what Obama thinks (very doubtful) why don't you listen to him yourself?

I hope this thread dies the ignominious death it deserves.

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Given my background, my politics, and my professed values and ideals, there will no doubt be those for whom my statements of condemnation are not enough. Why associate myself with Reverend Wright in the first place, they may ask? Why not join another church? And I confess that if all that I knew of Reverend Wright were the snippets of those sermons that have run in an endless loop on the television and You Tube, or if Trinity United Church of Christ conformed to the caricatures being peddled by some commentators, there is no doubt that I would react in much the same way

But the truth is, that isn't all that I know of the man. The man I met more than twenty years ago is a man who helped introduce me to my Christian faith, a man who spoke to me about our obligations to love one another; to care for the sick and lift up the poor. He is a man who served his country as a U.S. Marine; who has studied and lectured at some of the finest universities and seminaries in the country, and who for over thirty years led a church that serves the community by doing God's work here on Earth - by housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, and reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS.

In my first book, Dreams From My Father, I described the experience of my first service at Trinity:

"People began to shout, to rise from their seats and clap and cry out, a forceful wind carrying the reverend's voice up into the rafters….And in that single note - hope! - I heard something else; at the foot of that cross, inside the thousands of churches across the city, I imagined the stories of ordinary black people merging with the stories of David and Goliath, Moses and Pharaoh, the Christians in the lion's den, Ezekiel's field of dry bones. Those stories - of survival, and freedom, and hope - became our story, my story; the blood that had spilled was our blood, the tears our tears; until this black church, on this bright day, seemed once more a vessel carrying the story of a people into future generations and into a larger world. Our trials and triumphs became at once unique and universal, black and more than black; in chronicling our journey, the stories and songs gave us a means to reclaim memories that we didn't need to feel shame about…memories that all people might study and cherish - and with which we could start to rebuild."

That has been my experience at Trinity. Like other predominantly black churches across the country, Trinity embodies the black community in its entirety - the doctor and the welfare mom, the model student and the former gang-banger. Like other black churches, Trinity's services are full of raucous laughter and sometimes bawdy humor. They are full of dancing, clapping, screaming and shouting that may seem jarring to the untrained ear. The church contains in full the kindness and cruelty, the fierce intelligence and the shocking ignorance, the struggles and successes, the love and yes, the bitterness and bias that make up the black experience in America.

And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. He strengthened my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children. Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms, or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect. He contains within him the contradictions - the good and the bad - of the community that he has served diligently for so many years.

I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother - a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.

These people are a part of me. And they are a part of America, this country that I love.

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I guess you are able to be so liberal and carefree that if he had lunch with Bin Laden a few times that'd be swell too...?

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...and of course...God Damn America. What a nice thing to say in a church...especially a church with a US Senator & his children sitting in it...

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He is as big racist as anyone in the KKK, and his association with Obama is a huge stain on Obama’s campaign.

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Rev. Wright is a good example of the extreme racism that exists in the US. A racism that exists predominately among African-Americans, at least some. Unfortunately, there is a double standard when it comes to racism in the US. An outright racist like Rev. Wright gets defended for his racist statements for being black. But a white person, like say someone in the KKK, would be despised for his racist views. Quite frankly, I have no stomach for racism and I won’t give Rev. Wright a pass because he’s black. He is as big racist as anyone in the KKK, and his association with Obama is a huge stain on Obama’s campaign. Now I never had any intention of voting for Obama, but if I had been, this would make me rethink whether Obama is really fit to be the President of the US.

-- Cicero

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Originally posted by Righteous9:
Auraptor, aside of your Kevin Bacon game with Barrack and Cone via a church connecting reverend WRight, you've failed to even bother to try to articulare how telling us about Cone has anythihng to do with Wright, and your leap from Cone to Obama is even more stunningly short of clearing that chasm.

Dude, what is your point?

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It's really straight forward, if you read the post. Cone taught Wright and Wright preached his brand of hatred and racism to Obama

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Originally posted by SignyM:

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It's really straight forward, if you read the post. Cone taught Wright and Wright preached his brand of hatred and racism to Obama

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So that means that George 'dubya' Bush learned his fascist ways from his father WH Bush, who in turn learned them from his Nazi-supporting father, Senator Prescott Bush!
www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar

*sarcasm on*
Hot damn, man... I never thought I'd agree with you on anything!
*sarcasm off*


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Let's play six degrees of Kevin Bacon for this election.

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Originally posted by HKCavalier:
You wanna listen to a REAL racist black man??? Try and sit through this:

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Problem is, Bush isn't a fascist, nor was his father, so your whole silly argument has no legs to it.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by HKCavalier:
You wanna listen to a REAL racist black man??? Try and sit through this:

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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How is that racist?

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Jongsstraw- The ONLY way out for Obama to keep his candidacy even remotely viable is to just come out and say that Rev Wright is INSANE. Nothing less will work, and even that probably won't prevent his total collapse of support.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
How is that racist? A bit daft, maybe, but there's some truth to it.

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Originally posted by HKCavalier:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
How is that racist? A bit daft, maybe, but there's some truth to it.

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Um, okay, telling us that Obama is trash because his black "in-heat" father went with a trashy white woman, that Obama's character is disgraceful based on his being the product of what folk used to call "miscegenation" is purely, and utterly racist, while (and, y'know, I know this is gonna get some folk riled) the Rev. Wright's attacks on white America are really a mix of racist rhetoric and classist arguments. There are white people who have criticized our government every bit as vehemently as Rev. Wright, even on this board. Dr. Paul (rumored to be a white racist, interestingly enough) has spoken of America's "chickens coming home to roost." But Wright is not a white man, and as Obama points out in his speech, Rev. Wright belongs to a generation of black people that suffered through the era before civil-rights and to some extent are still stuck in that world.

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
So it’s okay to be a racist as long as you’re supporting a Democrat, but if you’re not supporting a Democrat, you’re just “utterly racist.” Got it.

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Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Glad to see you're still finding amuzement twirling your finger in the scum trap. I wish I had so much time on my hands that I could waste it the way you do.

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Originally posted by antimason:

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Jongsstraw- The ONLY way out for Obama to keep his candidacy even remotely viable is to just come out and say that Rev Wright is INSANE. Nothing less will work, and even that probably won't prevent his total collapse of support.

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i almost despise this 'renouncing' bs... why not fess up to what you believe, if you firmly believe anything, and confront the consequences? to me, its more important we know the truth, whatever it is, then whether Obama even agrees with rev. Wright. i dont want press corrections and phony apologies and renouncements. tell us the truth, so we can make a decision.. but i resent the ambiguity. i believe in fallen angels and this 'grand' conspiracy.. but i will always tell it like i see it, popular or not

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Just because people like Signym don’t agree with his policies doesn’t make him a fascist. In order for Bush to be a fascist he must meet this definition regardless of how popular opinion views him.

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Originally posted by SignyM:

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Just because people like Signym don’t agree with his policies doesn’t make him a fascist. In order for Bush to be a fascist he must meet this definition regardless of how popular opinion views him.

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Hey Finn, you so totally missed the point it's beyond funny.

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