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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
or better, have a vote on the war. And those who vote yes go onto a list of eligibility to be drafted.

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Originally posted by canttakesky:

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
or better, have a vote on the war. And those who vote yes go onto a list of eligibility to be drafted.

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You know, Gino, I've enjoyed a great number of your posts. This idea has got to be at the top of the heap.

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Force and fraud are in war the two cardinal virtues.
--Thomas Hobbes

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Originally posted by SergeantX:
This is the one I've been wanting to check out:

http://www.taxitothedarkside.com/

Anyone here seen it?

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
facts that the movie brought across should be discussed,

and that 81,000 troops have been stop lossed, or in other words had their contracts extended against their will, and were returned to Iraq.

My view, this practice is wrong.... a draft would be better than this nonsense.

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Originally posted by SergeantX:
I'm curious. Are you trying to make some kind of point with this post?

SergeantX

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Simply put, despite large budgets, big name actors and directors, these movies continue to fail at the box office, one after another. In an industry which lives by the all mighty dollar, the culture of Hollywood is obsessed w/ trying to project it's own politics and form public opinion with these ridiculous movies. This isn't a case of art imitating life, but rather Hollywood trying to force feed its Left wing agenda down the throats of American movie goers, even if it cost them $$ to do it.

But of course, these movies don't lose money over seas. No, these movies aren't made only for the American market, but for the anti-American sentiment across the seas. That's how Hollywood can fuel one flop after another, with the foreign, hate -America market , which is all too happy to see the US get blamed for all the world's problems.

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Originally posted by Skywalken:
There was In the Valley of Elah, there was Redacted, there was Rendition, there was Lions for Lambs...all of them have been flops at the box office.

Now there's MTV's cinematic op-ed against Operation Iraqi Freedom...Stop-Loss .

It's a complete bomb. Estimates so far are just $4.5 million in its opening weekend. It opened 8th out of the top 10.

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Originally posted by HKCavalier:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Simply put, despite large budgets, big name actors and directors, these movies continue to fail at the box office, one after another. In an industry which lives by the all mighty dollar, the culture of Hollywood is obsessed w/ trying to project it's own politics and form public opinion with these ridiculous movies. This isn't a case of art imitating life, but rather Hollywood trying to force feed its Left wing agenda down the throats of American movie goers, even if it cost them $$ to do it.

But of course, these movies don't lose money over seas. No, these movies aren't made only for the American market, but for the anti-American sentiment across the seas. That's how Hollywood can fuel one flop after another, with the foreign, hate -America market , which is all too happy to see the US get blamed for all the world's problems.

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Good gravy, AURaptor, you could say that of any number of thoughtful, complex dramas that just don't sell to the multiplex croud. And such movies always do well overseas.

Hello? Firefly also failed--is it 'cause it's antiwar too? Or is it just bad? Bet those European hate-American-firsters liked it plenty.

Oh wait, Serenity didn't do too badly, but then Joss had to dumb that baby down for the multiplexes.
HKCavalier

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
When " Superhero Movie " and " Drillbit Taylor " out do you on your opening weekend, one must question the good sense in the making of this movie in the 1st place.

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* Sidebar - I want to take time to point out why ANY of us is here, on this site, is that we believe in the awesomeness of Firefly / Serenity. Yes we have differences, some minor, others not so much. But that the BDM was even made is, in no small measure, a direct result of the efforts of many folks here on this very board. I am , and will always be extremely thankful and proud to be a part of the Browncoat family. We are, from my perspective, unique in all of fandom and in all of Sci Fi.

Quite simply, we rock.

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Originally posted by avengingwatcher:

So in completion, shut the hell up about things you know nothing about.

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Originally posted by HKCavalier:



Oh wait, Serenity didn't do too badly, but then Joss had to dumb that baby down for the multiplexes.

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
I don't understand if you are just kidding or are really that dumb.
Against their will?? Are you saying they signed their contracts against their will? Are you saying they are too stupid to read the contract they signed? Are you saying the Armed Forces should not exercise the contracts that each member voluntarily signed? Are you saying they should be dishonorable and not honor thier commitment, making their word and their signature worthless, meaning they are less than a man? This is ho9w the post-Clinton contracts work. They could just get out by stating they are gay - what's the problem with that, other than being also dishonorable.

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and that 81,000 troops have been stop lossed, or in other words had their contracts extended against their will, and were returned to Iraq.

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
I like to think of it as direct democracy one step further. People would have to make a informed decision and support that choice. Have you read Robert Heinlein's Starship Troopers.... there is a line saying they would refuse no volunteers. If you want to serve, a job within your ability will be found for you. Too old for combat service, well someone has to count mess kits and that frees up that guy.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by HKCavalier:



Oh wait, Serenity didn't do too badly, but then Joss had to dumb that baby down for the multiplexes.

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HK....the first thing you've ever said that disappointed me...

Sad Chrisisall

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Originally posted by avengingwatcher:
The only people that have a right to criticize the soldiers are other soldiers.

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Originally posted by avengingwatcher:
You are OBVIOUSLY not a military person. Let me explain what stop loss means to you since you probably have no idea. It means that they are extended involuntarily BEYOND the length of the contract because as a soldier you actually have no rights. You are officially property in the eyes of the government, which is why when you get in a fight with a solider you are charged with destruction of government property. ALSO there are clauses which are twisted so that your individual unit can deny your ability to leave. I personally know people who have had at least 2 years added to the length of their contract over the 8 years that they sign up for. There is no such thing as a 3 year or 5 year term. It is 8 years no matter what. You do your active term and then active reserve, then inactive reserve your last two years, unless you are active for six years or more, after that it is a breach of contract to stop loss past this. Technically it is illegal under our current law to say that you can serve four year terms, because it is a lie. However, because it is our us military there will never be a repercussion against it. Also what planet are you from? Individual units can decide not to kick you out for being gay, and you have to go through a review board with some possible jail time depending upon your unit. Also just as a point of reason... the armed forces say that you can have terms of service. I actually never found out that you were in for 8 years until well afterwards, there is also a period where you can get out of the military with no negative repercussions, however the military will illegally refuse to let you leave. The fact that the majority of the people who are in the military are at best only high school educated, you can get a waiver for that, how could you honestly expect them to read the hundreds of documents that they are forced to sign in repetition over and over when they sign up, much less understand the implications of said legalese? I love our boys and girls fighting over there and too many of them have come home with flags draped over them, how dare you try to sully the good names of soldiers who do their duty and expect that the military will give them the same respect, you know what? screw this. you are a simpleton with no understanding of what it takes to be a solider in a combat unit, under constant stress in a war that you disagree with. How dare you insult our soldiers, jewelstaitefan? That is what you are doing, calling them cowards because they want the military to honor it's contracts, because they don't even understand what they are fighting for, because they want to be able to see their families. The only war that this can be equated to is Vietnam and you are doing the same thing that the "liberals" did back then. It is just wrong to attack soldiers who have been places and seen things you wouldn't even begin to understand you little panty-waist. Exactly how is it so different from a draft if you are forced to go to war over and over with no possibility of release. You realize that the US Army involuntarily extended my unit until 2025? How would you like you 4 year commitment to turn into a lifetime jackass? Yeah that's right you have no idea what I'm talking about so shut the hell up. For the rest of you, I am no against war, hell I was for the war in Afghanistan, remember that? Likewise I was for Bosnia and I am for moving into Darfur. What the hell though? The jackass in the white house didn't like what he heard from Shinseki so he made him resign and found a lackey who would fight in Iraq. Iraq was and is nothing more than a personal vendetta by a moron who couldn't even hit oil in the desert when he was with a Saudi. This war is illegal, there was no authorization for it and I can not for the life of me understand why we are still there. We have a president who has never been elected (appointed twice, and he lost the popular vote), has been plagued by constitutional breaches, espouses torture and moronic national policies and then doesn't fund them, but he can manage to give tax breaks to big oil, while they are having record profits. If you are so in support of this war and think that the war is the right thing to do then join up and go or shut you mouth. Enough of this troop hating blather trying to make anyone who disagrees with the war a bad guy. As for on topic, show me a war movie made during the same war that was a blockbuster? You can't. All the movies with John Wayne and Clint Eastwood in them are made after the Korean war. Yeah I watched Heartbreak Ridge too...my basic actually had a course named after heartbreak ridge.

So in completion, shut the hell up about things you know nothing about. The only people that have a right to criticize the soldiers are other soldiers. Sure some do bad things and have different opinions than me, but they enemy doesn't care if you are liberal or conservative, they will kill you either way.

When there are no heroes where will we turn?

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Originally posted by citizen:

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
I like to think of it as direct democracy one step further. People would have to make a informed decision and support that choice. Have you read Robert Heinlein's Starship Troopers.... there is a line saying they would refuse no volunteers. If you want to serve, a job within your ability will be found for you. Too old for combat service, well someone has to count mess kits and that frees up that guy.

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Well, starship troopers didn't show direct democracy, it showed a tacit fascist government. The government controlled who would be voted in, by controlling who would vote.

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More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Originally posted by citizen:

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
I don't understand if you are just kidding or are really that dumb.
Against their will?? Are you saying they signed their contracts against their will? Are you saying they are too stupid to read the contract they signed? Are you saying the Armed Forces should not exercise the contracts that each member voluntarily signed? Are you saying they should be dishonorable and not honor thier commitment, making their word and their signature worthless, meaning they are less than a man? This is ho9w the post-Clinton contracts work. They could just get out by stating they are gay - what's the problem with that, other than being also dishonorable.

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Did IQ's drop sharply while I was away? What is so hard to work out about this sentence:

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and that 81,000 troops have been stop lossed, or in other words had their contracts extended against their will, and were returned to Iraq.

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?

His objection wasn't that the soldiers didn't honour their contracts, it's that the Government didn't.

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