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Originally posted by SignyM:
No, not a man. Most people assumed I was a guy altho Chris had me figured out a long time ago! I hope that doesn't change how people view me in the future.

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In neither case can you allow yourself to consider the notion that the state might actually have had a legitimate interest and lawful authority when it came to child abuse.

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without even a reasonable suspicion

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Frem, even YOU said that several actionable cases had been overlooked by the authorities. Hell, even I read about this group over a year ago in the LA Times. Doesn't this information count for "reasonable suspicion"?

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Originally posted by rue:
6-ix

"Let's see, aside from sensationalistic media reports, exactly what proof Rue has regarding what did and did not go on within that community, shall we?"

Pregnant underage girls ? I don't know how much more proof you need than that. "According to the West Texas TV station, investigators removed 60 children under 17, mostly girls -- half of whom, they report, are now pregnant -- from the gated compound built by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Schleicher County."

There are several ways to address these facts:
They aren’t real (the Rap 'head up the butt' approach)
All those girls got pregnant without sex
The 50% pregnancy rate of underage girls doesn't indicate a widespread culture of pedophilia (and statutory rape)
Though it's all true, it's OK because it was girls, not boys; because it was LDS not Catholics; or some other reason.

So however you want to address these facts as proof of what went on there, the next step is up to you.

And no, I don't feel the need to apologize b/c my post was based on facts.

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BTW this does get back to the topic of 'disappeared' children. What this is, is yet another instance, albeit a large-scale one, of people disappearing their children in order to do things to them that are illegal.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

There is one word for you Rue. Hypocrite.

And THAT'S a fact.

Regards,6SJ

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seperate every parent of that belief from their kids permanently

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Show me actual chuch documentation making those claims

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Leaving me and mine in the darkness, cussing you and trying to pick up the pieces.

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A record of that call exists, in fact we have found that in spite of repeated denials, a TAPE RECORDING of that call exists, as well as the billing record of the number in question, which is indeed from Swinsons phone.

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An underage pregnancy is evidence of a crime,

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professing to or holding a belief is not evidence of a crime regardless of what the belief in question happens to be.

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Do you mean the Texas phone call? If that;s what you mean, how can WE verify that all of this exists... outside of your say-so? Links please.

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And if evidence existed this was so, then a crime was committed, yes? At least we agree on something!

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This is just you ere re-assertion that it's all about "belief". Can you show me how?

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You're not the ONLY force for good in society Frem!

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What else do all the parents have in common other than geographical location at the time of the event ? Seriously

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More than half the teenage girls taken from a polygamist compound in west Texas have children or are pregnant, state officials said Monday. A total of 53 girls between the ages of 14 and 17 are in state custody after a raid 3 1/2 weeks ago at the Yearning For Zion Ranch in Eldorado. Of those girls, 31 either have children or are pregnant, said Child Protective Services spokesman Darrell Azar. He didn't specify how many are pregnant.

"It shows you a pretty distinct pattern, that it was pretty pervasive," he said.

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An underage pregnancy is evidence of a crime,

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Come Monday, they'd {the State} best have some answers, and quickly.

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And where were YOU when girls were getting "married"?

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a girl with State issued birth certificate in hand saying otherwise, is underage

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Eternal Marriage is essential for exaltation. A key element of Mormon doctrine and the foundation for exaltation in the highest heaven is celestial marriage. Exaltation is the primary goal for each Mormon to achieve. To understand the Latter-Day Saints' desire to enter into an eternal marriage it is important to understand the term "exaltation."

William Clayton, Hyrum Smith's clerk, was present when Joseph Smith first announced the revelation regarding plural and celestial marriage. Clayton wrote that from Joseph he "learned that the doctrine of plural and celestial marriage is the most holy and important doctrine ever revealed to man on earth, and that without obedience to that principle no man can ever attain to the fullness of exaltation in celestial glory."{33}

This revelation was first given publicly at Nauvoo, Illinois, July 12, 1843. In May of that year Joseph revealed that "In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; and in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage]; and if he does not, he cannot obtain it."{34} Joseph goes on to reveal that "if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned."{35}

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With that being said, does the church, any church, have the right to break the laws set forth in the land they occupy

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
- at least some of the girls weren't dumped off, but have been routed to a Baptist run emergency facility...

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Poor girls have been through enough as it is, we really need a light touch here to avoid making social timebombs, if you know what I mean.

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
...like jumping off the roof with a an improvised dragchute system made of four hefty bags...

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The addition of nearly 500 complicated cases of children swept from a polygamist ranch this month will strain Child Protective Services, experts said Tuesday. "You were seeing amazing turnover already," said Madeline McClure, executive director of TexProtects, a Dallas-based group that advocates for abused and neglected children.

She cited CPS' loss last year of nearly 40 percent of its child-abuse investigators. In the first quarter of this fiscal year, "conservatorship caseworkers," who oversee children removed from bad homes, were quitting at an annual turnover rate of 32 percent.

A leading lobbyist for foster care contractors said while CPS faces a daunting challenge in moving the sect children's cases through the courts, it caught at one break. The raid came as the state's foster child population dropped to about 17,800, said Nancy Holman, head of the Texas Alliance of Child and Family Services. That is more than 1,000 below budgeted levels.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
In the case of the USA which is a secular democracy...

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