Is there outrage...?...are we being outraged about something? by chrisisall

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Is there outrage...?...are we being outraged about something?

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Monday, May 19, 2008 08:59
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VIEWED: 999
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Sunday, May 18, 2008 7:20 AM

Yeah, Bush sucks...but so did Clinton, so did Bush Sr, so did Reagan, so did Carter, so did Ford (but he was funny with his fallin' an all), so did Nixon, etc.
Why do we expect a President NOT to suck? Are we all stupid or sumpin'?

Curious Chrisisall

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Sunday, May 18, 2008 7:32 AM

GINOBIFFARONI

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Yeah, Bush sucks...but so did Clinton, so did Bush Sr, so did Reagan, so did Carter, so did Ford (but he was funny with his fallin' an all), so did Nixon, etc.
Why do we expect a President NOT to suck? Are we all stupid or sumpin'?

Curious Chrisisall

Naw, youse Americans dats sumpin else diffrent

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Sunday, May 18, 2008 7:39 AM

CHRISISALL

Gino- you expect our Presidents to suck, don't you?

Like McCain or Obama won't suck?

McCain will rule this country with his PTSD, and Obama will be steam-rolled like the green little boy he is....

I fear we in this country have a fantasy idea of what a President is (not to sound too much like Finn here).

Chrisisallpessimistic

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Sunday, May 18, 2008 8:07 AM

FLETCH2

Unreasonable expectations.

The problem with the President is that he does three different things none of which are exactly similar.

1) He's head of the executive branch, which means it's his job to make sure that legislation is actually implemented.

2) he's commander in chief/ figurehead for the nation, which means that to some extent he gets reverence related to the OFFICE of the president and is expected to appear "presidential."

3) he is a senior member of a political party but not necessarily the party that actually has the popular vote or which is pushing legislation.

Nothing wrong with this, it's by design, but it's hard to be all these people and still be effective at more than one or two of the roles.

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Sunday, May 18, 2008 8:10 AM

GINOBIFFARONI

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Gino- you expect our Presidents to suck, don't you?

Like McCain or Obama won't suck?

McCain will rule this country with his PTSD, and Obama will be steam-rolled like the green little boy he is....

I fear we in this country have a fantasy idea of what a President is (not to sound too much like Finn here).

Chrisisallpessimistic

My feeling is that most of your countrymen have either stopped paying attention, or have ceased to care about the way your country is run. I'm not saying other country's are better but yours is the elephant run amok causing many of the problems the people of this site complain about.

Most of my focus is foreign policy related, but look at it this way, if even half the resources the US throws into trying to get its own way globally was applied to domestic problems, even short term... how many of those problems will go away.

Hell, comparisons between the rescue / rebuilt efforts during Katrina and the Chinese efforts in the Sichuan province earthquake could be examined. Before the " it was the states fault, or its was Bushs fault arguments pop up yet again, it is irrelevant. China so far appears to be doing 100x the job in a more massive disaster... even to the point of allowing workers and supplies in from country's with whom their relations are strained..... why you might wonder.. maybe because it is the best thing they can do for their people.

Reminds me of the Cuban relief effort that was offered and turned away.

Hubris and political bullshit

Your " war on drugs " billions are spent in overseas enforcement, blockades, etc

what about effective addict treatment programs at home. reduce the user side of the equation and the problem / profit goes away right ?

The ineffective UN... maybe if the damned vetoes go away we can find out how things really stand

even NAFTA / WTO, when the treatys and agreements your country signs look like there is any disadvantage to try to unilaterally change the rules.....

Do I expect your country to have a bullshit government regardless of who wins the election

is there even a question ?

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Sunday, May 18, 2008 3:47 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

I liked it when Ford tripped an fell. Because it gave Chevy Chase his start, and that's when Chevy was funny. Up until Fletch. Then he wasn't funny any more.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, May 18, 2008 3:56 PM

FLETCH2

That's right... blame me...

shesh!

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Sunday, May 18, 2008 6:06 PM

SERGEANTX

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Are we all stupid or sumpin'?

I'm don't think we're stupid. But I think far too many of us have given up on thinking for ourselves. And most of those who have don't even realize it, or worse yet, don't care.

Of course, that's slippery, elitist, ground to trod upon - how do any of us know we're "thinking for ourselves"?

I guess that the thing that gnaws at me is the power the media hold in the process. But that power is exaggerated, indeed made possible, by the malleable mental state of the average voter. They're conditioned from birth to respond to just the sort of manipulation the media specialize in.

The two party lockdown gets a lot of the blame for the fact that we keep getting served up with nothing but establishment approved candidates. But that only works because we let the media tell us who the 'front-runners' are in the first place.

I don't see anyway out of it really. Until things just get so fucked up that people quit watching TV and quit trusting the media stream that is pumped into their heads 24/7.

There is one thing that gives me slim hope. Being involved in the primary process seriously for the first time has given me a new appreciation for the old saw 'all politics are local'. Nothing could be truer, and the extent to which our candidate selection is determined by local, machine politics is astounding.

Working the polls this year I saw first hand how this operates. First of all, over half of the people who vote are "remote-control drones". By that, I mean they are people who the local party stokes into action, people that can be counted on to vote the way they're told. Apart from party apparatus personnel, these are primarily government workers, who almost always get a paid day off from work so they can work the polls and vote (isn't that convenient?) and old folks who are bussed to the polls and given voting cards that tell them who to vote for.

The other thing that was somewhat surprising, is just how much sway the local committee people have. As I watched voters approach the polls, roughly a third knew the party rep personally, usually shaking hands and thanking them for various favors - they were surprisingly open about it actually.

Lastly, the local parties, in general, seek to reduce general public turnout for the primaries as much as possible. The reason is pretty obvious when you think about it, but it boils down to keeping their "drones" in control of the votes. They have their core group of voters that they know will show up. Anything above and beyond that group is a wildcard. And they don't want any surprises.

Now, the reason I say this gives me hope, is that it's really pretty easy to break through. The most important tool they have is voter apathy. Even a small group of mildly interested primary voters can have a huge influence on the votes. Even with the press telling everyone that Ron Paul had dropped out of the race, we were able to get 16% of the vote in Pennsylvania, and far more importantly, we were able elect a large number of our delegates to conventions slots, far more than the actual voting percentage for Paul. I really think if we'd been organized a year earlier we'd have had a real chance at the nomination.

Pushing through this early selection process is really the only hope we have. We're still going to be up against the media machine that will inevitably be working for the highest bidder, but with the internet we're even making inroads on that behemoth.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Sunday, May 18, 2008 8:31 PM

HKCAVALIER

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Are we all stupid or sumpin'?

I'm don't think we're stupid.

I'm sorry, I can't stop chuckling.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Sunday, May 18, 2008 9:13 PM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
I'm sorry, I can't stop chuckling.

Hey, I wanted to say that, stupid time difference.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Monday, May 19, 2008 2:54 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:

I'm sorry, I can't stop chuckling.

hehhehisall

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Monday, May 19, 2008 3:07 AM

SERGEANTX

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Monday, May 19, 2008 3:19 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
I think far too many of us have given up on thinking for ourselves.

Luckily that doesn't describe any here at RWED....

Chrisisall

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Monday, May 19, 2008 4:23 AM

SERGEANTX

Well, I think the erratic results are a clear indication that I'm thinking for myself.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Monday, May 19, 2008 4:34 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
Well, I think the erratic results are a clear indication that I'm thinking for myself.

But not *COUGHAURaptor*

Chrisisall

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Monday, May 19, 2008 7:39 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Oh, I just had to reply.

The problem with the US is we don't have a parliamentary system. So people make ALL sorts of promises to get into office and once there - they do whatever the hell they want. And what are WE going to do about it ?? NOTHIN !

That's why voters are so cynical and have such short memories. Seriously, nothing you do makes a difference in the outcome.

Now, if we could vote the rat-bastards out of office when they lose our suport ... make them actually mind us ...

***************************************************************
I can dream, can't I ?

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Monday, May 19, 2008 7:43 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Reminds me of the Cuban relief effort that was offered and turned away.

And don't forget the Venezuelan oil that was turned away without so much as a polite "No, thank you."

It cracks me up to hear BushCo. go on and on about the evil Venezuelans, all the while conveniently forgetting to mention how much of our oil still comes from them. Yup, you heard it - we hate their "evil and oppressive" regime, but we're still all to happy to buy oil from their state-owned petroleum industry, thereby propping up that same regime...

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Monday, May 19, 2008 8:59 AM

GINOBIFFARONI

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Reminds me of the Cuban relief effort that was offered and turned away.

And don't forget the Venezuelan oil that was turned away without so much as a polite "No, thank you."

It cracks me up to hear BushCo. go on and on about the evil Venezuelans, all the while conveniently forgetting to mention how much of our oil still comes from them. Yup, you heard it - we hate their "evil and oppressive" regime, but we're still all to happy to buy oil from their state-owned petroleum industry, thereby propping up that same regime...

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

Yes, but if you accept a helping hand from them it is only bad PR when you later start a war with them

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7409244.stm

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

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