REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Why is Russia losing so much military equipment?

POSTED BY: CAPTAINCRUNCH
UPDATED: Monday, June 20, 2022 17:27
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Wednesday, May 18, 2022 12:16 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Contrary to what some might suggest, it is not a strategy.

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-ukraine-war-military-equipment-losses/3
1847839.html


Russia has reportedly lost more than 650 tanks and about 3,000 other armored vehicles and heavy equipment so far in its invasion of Ukraine. Experts put the losses down to the advanced anti-tank weapons given to Ukraine by Western countries, poor strategy, low morale, and important design flaws.

Ukraine says Russia has lost almost 1,200 tanks, a number that we cannot verify. However, the military and intelligence blog Oryx, which counts Russian military equipment losses in Ukraine based on photographs sent from the front lines, says Russia has lost 664 tanks (as of May 13, 2022) and about 3,000 other armored vehicles and heavy equipment so far.

Abandoned Equipment

Out of the 664 tanks that Russia has lost in Ukraine, 283 were abandoned or captured. According to military analysts, that says a lot about the operation: Poor intelligence led to Russian commanding officers not being able to plan their offensive operations properly, and the core of military personnel consists mostly of conscripts -- around 80 percent -- who are not professionally trained to use the equipment.

The invading forces were also expecting Ukrainians to receive them with open arms, which, as we know, did not happen, and the high number of casualties in the opening days and weeks of the invasion has affected the morale of Russian troops, who often fled their positions, leaving the equipment behind.

In fact, so much Russian military equipment was left abandoned that Ukrainian authorities even declared that anyone who took possession of such equipment did not need to declare it for tax purposes.

Amateur videos of Russian tanks and other armored vehicles being towed across fields and villages by Ukrainian tractors regularly go viral on social media. The military vehicles are usually abandoned, broken down, or out of fuel. They are often handed over to Ukrainian armed forces battling Russia's invasion.

Destroyed Equipment

As for the equipment that was lost in combat, the war in Ukraine has exposed fundamental design flaws and outdated or inferior-quality materials in Russian equipment:

Tank turrets that were blown off and now lie in ruins several meters from the rubble of the exploded tank point to a design issue known as the "Jack-in-the-box" flaw.

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-ukraine-war-military-equipment-losses/3
1847839.html

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Wednesday, May 18, 2022 7:05 PM

THG





T



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Wednesday, May 18, 2022 9:38 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Four Russia threads weren't enough. Let's make a fifth one.

Keep asking dumbass questions like this, Cap'n, and don't come crying to me when you can't figure out why Democrats aren't in power for the rest of your life.

--------------------------------------------------

Me: "Remember Covid?"

Useless Idiots: "What's Covid, durr? Russia, Ukraine, Putin, NATO *drool*. DURRRR!!!!"

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Wednesday, May 18, 2022 11:27 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Contrary to what some might suggest, it is not a strategy.

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-ukraine-war-military-equipment-losses/3
1847839.html


Russia has reportedly

That's as far as anyone needs to read.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Thursday, May 19, 2022 8:21 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Russia has reportedly That's as far as anyone needs to read.




Zignym has posted That's as far as anyone needs to read.


Zignym can’t be honest enough to admit that that is, has been, and always will be, what reporters do: Report. Good ones do it better than bad ones. No matter. Zignym can’t be bothered to read reporting that says bad things about New and Improved Russia no matter how true. Much like Russian tv, Signym simply can’t do honest. Truth never factors in for her. Perfect Putin/Trump disciple. Lie at all costs.

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Thursday, May 19, 2022 8:34 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

SignyM:
Russia has reportedly
That's as far as anyone needs to read.


CAPONCRUNCH: Zignym has posted
That's as far as anyone needs to read.


Zignym can’t be honest enough to admit that that is, has been, and always will be, what reporters do: Report.
Zignym can’t be bothered to read reporting that says bad things about New and Improved Russia. Signym simply can’t do honest.

I thought that reporters were supposed to do a minimum of fact checking before they blabbed all over the media.

Apparently not.

Thats why we get reporters "reporting" on non-reality like IRAQ!WMD! and RUSSIA!TRUMP!COLLUSION! quoting "reliable sources" like "anonymous officials" and
Kiev intelligence sources"

Since THEY can't separate fact from fiction, we're left to do investigating ourselves. And apparently CAPON doesn't believe in separating fact from fiction.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Thursday, May 19, 2022 11:50 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I thought that reporters were supposed to do a minimum of fact checking before they blabbed all over the media.

Apparently not.

Thats why we get reporters "reporting" on non-reality like IRAQ!WMD! and RUSSIA!TRUMP!COLLUSION! quoting "reliable sources" like "anonymous officials" and
Kiev intelligence sources"

Since THEY can't separate fact from fiction, we're left to do investigating ourselves. And apparently CAPON doesn't believe in separating fact from fiction.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - reportedly NOT William Blake, but Signym.

See Spark Notes for the actual words and meaning, rather than Signym's not-at-all-subtle rewrite of a long poem.
https://www.sparknotes.com/poetry/blake/section8/


Army vehicles were so decrepit that repair crews were stationed roughly every 15 miles. Some officers were so out of shape that the military budgeted $1.5 million to re-size standard uniforms.

That was the Russian military more than a decade ago when the country invaded Georgia, according to the defense minister at the time. The shortcomings, big and small, were glaring enough that the Kremlin announced a complete overhaul of the military to build a leaner, more flexible, professional force.

But now, almost three months into Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, it is clear the Kremlin fell woefully short of creating an effective fighting machine. Russian forces in Ukraine have underperformed to a degree that has surprised most Western analysts, raising the prospect that President Vladimir V. Putin’s military operation could end in failure.

By any measure, despite capturing territory in the south and east, the Russian military has suffered a major blow in Ukraine. It has been forced to abandon what it expected would be a blitzkrieg to seize the entire country in a few days. Its forces were driven from around Kyiv, the capital. The flagship of its Black Sea fleet, the Moskva, was sunk; it has never controlled the skies; and by some Western estimates, tens of thousands of Russians have died.

This war has exposed the fact that, to Russia’s detriment, much of the military culture and learned behavior of the Soviet era endures: inflexibility in command structure, corruption in military spending, and concealing casualty figures and repeating the mantra that everything is going according to plan.

Continue reading at https://web.archive.org/web/20220518195141/https://www.nytimes.com/202
2/05/16/world/europe/russia-military-ukraine.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Thursday, May 19, 2022 12:12 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I thought that reporters were supposed to do a minimum of fact checking before they blabbed all over the media.

Apparently not.



Yes, they're suppose to.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Thats why we get reporters "reporting" on non-reality like IRAQ!WMD!



Dull and boring. You'll use one ancient f-up to slander decades of great, seriously important reporting, just so you can say "ALL news is fake news" and then make shit up. You working for Putin? Trump? Erdogan? Orban?

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
and RUSSIA!TRUMP!COLLUSION!



Finally, you understand! You actually see the difference between Biden in office and that Putin ck smoker, Trump.

Explaining to a child time:
Z -"reliable sources" = are very important, pretty obvious

Z - "anonymous officials" = many sources need to be promised anonymity to reveal important information for fear of retribution. Are you using your real name, Ziggy?

Z - "Kiev intelligence sources" = the actual truth, we already said they can't be trusted.

Z - "Since THEY can't separate fact from fiction, we're left to do investigating ourselves." I gave you a long list of facts and realities and you did not disprove (or even try) any of them. I guess you really suck at the investigating.

5 year old Z - "And apparently CAPON doesn't believe in separating fact from fiction." Why do you bother?

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Thursday, May 19, 2022 3:16 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

SIGNYM:
I thought that reporters were supposed to do a minimum of fact checking before they blabbed all over the media.
Apparently not.

CAPN: Yes, they're suppose to.

SIGNYM:Thats why we get reporters "reporting" on non-reality like IRAQ!WMD!

CAPON: Dull and boring.

Only CAPON would (attempt to) dismiss an important truth as "dull and boring". THIS particular lie went on for a half year under various guises...

9-11! terrorism!
aluminum tubes!
yellowcake!
chemical warfare!
biolabs!
mushroom clouud!
East west north south somewhat of Baghdad!

"Reporters" had multiple moments to get off that impending trainwreck, which they NEVER did. Not once did they question a constantly-shifting narrative and forever-moving goalposts, or take a serious look at the actual on-the-ground investigation by Hans Blix. In the end this "dull boring" series of lies

cost us a trillion dollars
up to a million Iraqi lives (Yes I know: You're all for human rights unless they happen to be Iraqi, bc Iraqis aren't human)
set off the GWOT,
fostered the creation of torture sites, black sites, extraordinary rendition, Star Chamber execution
created a power vacuum and the formation of ISIS

Yanno, no big deal.


Quote:

CAPON: You'll use one
Oh, c'mon. Everyone here knows that I've given multiple examples many times. List not inclusive:
Vietnam,
Chile
Noreiga
Grenada
Serbia/Milosevic
Georgia (former SSR)
Ukraine (ongoing since 2013)
Syria/Assad
Libya/Qaddafi
TRUMP
Russia/Putin
N Korea/Kim Jong Un
Inflation
Racism/white supremacy
SARS-CoV-2
Southern border

Shit, son, you name it, it's been lied about.




Quote:

CAPON: Finally, you understand! You actually see the difference between Biden in office and that Putin ck smoker, Trump.


First off, Biden* is not in charge. It's whoever is in charge of the teleprompter that day.

Second, so now we have an admin engaging in a self- destructive multi-billion hot war/trillion dollar sanctions war either

a) On behalf of a corrupt undemocratic regime that most people STILL couldn't find on a map if their life depended on it, and couldn't give a shit about, OR

b) To embark on a feckless project of destroying Russia.

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Thursday, May 19, 2022 4:19 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


To get back to the original topic:

I don't believe a single word or jot that comes out of either Kiev's "intelligence" sources or ours, or a media that promulgates their propaganda.

And since you haven't demonstrated that there's any "there" there to the topic, this is a pointless thread.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Thursday, May 19, 2022 5:09 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

SIGNYM:
CAPON: Dull and boring.

Only CAPON would (attempt to) dismiss an important truth as "dull and boring".



Let me correct you: I dismissed YOU constantly bringing that up like it justifies dismissing all non-Ruski/aurthoitarian reporting.
You repeating something over and over does not make it valid for every case. That's just you on dull and boring, auto argue.


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Everyone here knows that I've given multiple examples many times. List not inclusive:
Vietnam,
Chile
Noreiga
Grenada
Serbia/Milosevic
Georgia (former SSR)
Ukraine (ongoing since 2013)
Syria/Assad
Libya/Qaddafi
TRUMP
Russia/Putin
N Korea/Kim Jong Un
Inflation
Racism/white supremacy
SARS-CoV-2
Southern border



The lie and the "by whom" would be essential to know. Kind of like the facts that would lead to real understanding instead of your rah! rah! russia!

The thing that happens when you dismiss all reporting is it creates a vacuum into which authoritarians can spin their propaganda, and ram it down the throats of an unsuspecting, unsophisticated, weak minded civilian population who won't know fact from truth... then they can make them jump like monkeys and do all sorts of nasty sht. Maybe even Jan 6 stuff.
Uh oh! Holy shit! Fck! I just gave up the game, didn't I?! Zigfool - we know what the game is and we know how it's played and we know what side of truth you're on.

Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
First off, Biden* is not in charge. It's whoever is in charge of the teleprompter that day.



Are you working at the WH now?

Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Second, so now we have an admin engaging in a self- destructive multi-billion hot war/trillion dollar sanctions war either



You mean "Russia-destructive."

Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
On behalf of a corrupt undemocratic regime



Like Russia and Syria except the part about Syria being a dictatorship.

Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
that most people STILL couldn't find on a map if their life depended on it,



While I agree that Trump voters are exceedingly stupid, I think they can find Ukraine by now.

Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
and couldn't give a shit about, OR



I think this part you are actually, sadly, pretty close on. Some people can't see beyond their front door.

Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
To embark on a feckless project of destroying Russia.



It is a real shame Russia decided to start that journey, I'll give you that. One fucking guy did all this.

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Thursday, May 19, 2022 6:29 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
To get back to the original topic:

I don't believe a single word or jot that comes out of either Kiev's "intelligence" sources or ours, or a media that promulgates their propaganda.

And since you haven't demonstrated that there's any "there" there to the topic, this is a pointless thread.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - reportedly NOT William Blake, but Signym.

See Spark Notes for the actual words and meaning, rather than Signym's not-at-all-subtle rewrite of a long poem.
https://www.sparknotes.com/poetry/blake/section8/


Signym, in so few words your signature proves you neither read nor understood the poem. Why have an untruthful signature if you want to be believed?

Matt Taibbi did what Signym is doing, but with more nuisance at "16 Years Later, How the Press That Sold the Iraq War Got Away With It"
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/iraq-war-media
-fail-matt-taibbi-812230
/

Taibbi doesn't place the blame where it belongs, with Bush and Cheney. Despite the voters knowing Bush and Cheney had lied about everything with the help of the 51% of "reporters" who are really only "stenographers" repeating whatever lie the White House wants to spread, the 51% of voters reelected the nincompoop Bush and the liar Cheney. With four more years, those two could continue screwing up even worse than the first four years.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Thursday, May 19, 2022 6:40 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Apparently the REAL point of this thread was to trot out your collective stupidity.

Have fun!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Thursday, May 19, 2022 8:12 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Apparently the REAL point of this thread was to trot out your collective stupidity.

Have fun!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - reportedly NOT William Blake, but Signym.

See Spark Notes for the actual words and meaning, rather than Signym's not-at-all-subtle rewrite of a long poem.
https://www.sparknotes.com/poetry/blake/section8/


Signym, fix your signature by changing "William Blake" to "Signym". Even you could get that right.

"The result is an absence of checks and balances in Russia, and the decision of one man to launch a wholly unjustified and brutal invasion of Iraq," said Bush, before catching himself and shaking his head. "I mean -- of Ukraine."
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bush-condemns-unjustified-brutal-invas
ion-iraq-ukraine-speech/story?id=84831140


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Thursday, May 19, 2022 8:31 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


You dumb.

Democrats are done.



--------------------------------------------------

Me: "Remember Covid?"

Useless Idiots: "What's Covid, durr? Russia, Ukraine, Putin, NATO *drool*. DURRRR!!!!"

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Thursday, May 19, 2022 8:35 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Oh. And do make sure that you don't "dumb down" the way you speak when explaining to the blacks and Latinos who aren't going to vote Democrat why it's in their best interest that we're sending $40 Billion to track-suit puppet president* Z while gas prices here are over 5 bucks a gallon and people are going to start murdering each other for food.

Just a tip. Yanno... Because you white Democrats are racist fucks.



--------------------------------------------------

Me: "Remember Covid?"

Useless Idiots: "What's Covid, durr? Russia, Ukraine, Putin, NATO *drool*. DURRRR!!!!"

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Thursday, May 19, 2022 8:53 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Apparently the REAL point of this thread was to trot out your collective stupidity.

Have fun!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - reportedly NOT William Blake, but Signym.

See Spark Notes for the actual words and meaning, rather than Signym's not-at-all-subtle rewrite of a long poem.
https://www.sparknotes.com/poetry/blake/section8/


Signym, fix your signature by changing "William Blake" to "Signym". Even you could get that right.

"The result is an absence of checks and balances in Russia, and the decision of one man to launch a wholly unjustified and brutal invasion of Iraq," said Bush, before catching himself and shaking his head. "I mean -- of Ukraine."
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bush-condemns-unjustified-brutal-invas
ion-iraq-ukraine-speech/story?id=84831140


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

HAHAHA!! Just can't address THE TOPIC, can you? So you argue about poetry instead???

Oh, and since it chaps your ass SO MUCH that I misquoted ONE WORD (which, in your view, makes everything I post unreliable. How about applying that standard to YOURSELF, boy?) I'm fixing the quote. It doesn't change the meaning, tho.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Friday, May 20, 2022 8:56 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

HAHAHA!! Just can't address THE TOPIC, can you? So you argue about poetry instead???

Oh, and since it chaps your ass SO MUCH that I misquoted ONE WORD (which, in your view, makes everything I post unreliable. How about applying that standard to YOURSELF, boy?) I'm fixing the quote. It doesn't change the meaning, tho.

The words you should change are "William Blake" to "Signym". It is no surprise that you don't understand William Blake's poem, which doesn't mean what the first two lines in isolation seem to mean.

The topic is pure simplicity: Russians lose their equipment because they lack conviction, competence and courage. These are also the three "C"s that make many Americans poor as in Signym's misuse of a William Blake poem. They, both Russians and American poor, abandon effective tactics against their problems. The poor are exactly the kind of people who would misunderstand a William Blake poem for years and years because they won't click on the link that explains the poem to them. https://www.sparknotes.com/poetry/blake/section8/

There are also links to click on for effective military tactics, but Russians won't click on those, either, because they won the Great Patriotic War in 1945, therefore they already know how to win in 2022. But if Russians would compare the number of dead Russians, dead Germans, dead Brits, and dead Americans, the Russians should realize they know nothing about effective war tactics, which is why 3 times as many Russians died as Germans.

Unfortunately for Russians, half those dead Germans were killed by Americans, Brits, and French. That makes the Russian military tactics even more incompetent than if the Russians assume they killed all 7 million dead Germans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Total_deaths_by_
country


Russians tried to even the score with Germany by continuing to kill 2.5 million Germans after peace was declared. It is not surprising what Russians are doing to civilians in Ukraine because during the Great Patriotic War, Russians were even more murderous toward Germans after victory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_(1944%E2
%80%931950)#Soviet_Union_and_annexed_territories


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Friday, May 20, 2022 9:40 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Nobody has demonstrated that Russians are losing "so much" military equipment.

How about finding a reliable figure to start?

Unless you do that, all you're doing is blowing bubbles.

Right, SECOND?

*****

Oh, and along with your bubbles about Russia and Trump, let me pop your bubble about the poem:

Quote:

You interpret the poem however you like, SECOND. Blake crossed off the alternate "If there was nobody poor"
this is in his original handwriting
Quote:

to emphasize that impoverishing people is something we do on purpose. More here:
https://www.paper-darts.com/pity-would-be-no-more/



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Friday, May 20, 2022 1:00 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Jeez.

There needs to be a FACTS thread on Russia Invading Ukraine.

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Friday, May 20, 2022 4:51 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Jeez.

There needs to be a FACTS thread on Russia Invading Ukraine.

The whole topic appears to be a fact-free zone.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Saturday, May 21, 2022 1:12 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Jeez.

There needs to be a FACTS thread on Russia Invading Ukraine.

The whole topic appears to be a fact-free zone.

I meant, like, a thread to collect confirmed or verified accounts of info.

I'm not so sure that every news outlet in the world is sending their correspondents to falsify news reports. OTOH, some reports may be baloney or exxageration.


Or are you suggesting Russia has not invaded Ukraine? I had thought even Russia had admitted that much .

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Saturday, May 21, 2022 2:21 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Nobody has demonstrated that Russians are losing "so much" military equipment.

How about finding a reliable figure to start?

Unless you do that, all you're doing is blowing bubbles.

Right, SECOND?

*****

Oh, and along with your bubbles about Russia and Trump, let me pop your bubble about the poem:

Quote:

You interpret the poem however you like, SECOND. Blake crossed off the alternate "If there was nobody poor"
this is in his original handwriting
Quote:

to emphasize that impoverishing people is something we do on purpose. More here:
https://www.paper-darts.com/pity-would-be-no-more/



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake



Let's pop your bubble, Signym. You have distorted the meaning of the William Blake poem and even the meaning of the words like "reliable", "evidence", and "demonstrate".

Commentary on William Blake's poem, so often misused by Signym as her signature:

This poem asserts that the traditional Christian virtues of mercy and pity presuppose a world of poverty and human suffering; so, too, do the virtues represent a kind of passive and resigned sympathy that registers no obligation to alleviate suffering or create a more just world. The speaker therefore refuses to think of them as ideals, reasoning that in an ideal world of universal happiness and genuine love there would be no need of them. The poem begins as a methodical critique of the touchstone virtues that were so praised in “The Divine Image.” Proceeding through Pity, Mercy, and Peace, the poem then arrives at the phrase “selfish loves.” These clearly differ from Love as an innocent abstraction, and the poem takes a turn here to explore the growth, both insidious and organic, of a system of values based on fear, hypocrisy, repression, and stagnation.

The description of the tree in the second part of the poem shows how intellectualized values like Mercy, Pity, Peace, and Love become the breeding-ground for Cruelty. The speaker depicts Cruelty as a conniving and knowing person; in planting a tree, he also lays a trap. His tree flourishes on fear and weeping; Humility is its root, Mystery its foliage; but this growth is not natural; it does not reflect upon the natural state of man. Rather, the tree is associated with Deceit, and its branches harbor the raven, the symbol of death. By the end of the poem we realize that the above description has been a glimpse into the human mind, the mental experience. Thus the poem comments on the way abstract reasoning undermines a more natural system of values. The result is a grotesque semblance of the organic, a tree that grows nowhere in nature but lies sequestered secretly in the human brain.

https://www.sparknotes.com/poetry/blake/section8/

Signym, since you don't even understand your own misquote of William Blake, which you used 10,000 times, why think you understand the Ukraine War?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Saturday, May 21, 2022 3:14 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


In your infinite condescension, SECOND, you assume I don't understand the poem.

Pity, like charity, is not a virtue, it's virtue-signalling expression of superiority. It grows from another vice, selfishness.
Vice begets vice, not virtue. In a truly virtuous world, pity, "peace" and (selfish) love wouldn't exist.
It is deceit (or worse, self-deception) that allows the incestuous relationship of false virtue (what we would now call virtue-signalling) to prop up continuation of vices.
You, of all people, should understand virtue-signalling masking evil. But your self-deception won't allow it.

Why do you keep failing at mind-reading?

But WHAT does this have to do with "Russia losing so much military equipment"?
Well, it doesn't.
It's irrelevant.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Saturday, May 21, 2022 8:45 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
In your infinite condescension, SECOND, you assume I don't understand the poem.

Pity, like charity, is not a virtue, it's virtue-signalling expression of superiority. It grows from another vice, selfishness.
Vice begets vice, not virtue. In a truly virtuous world, pity, "peace" and (selfish) love wouldn't exist.
It is deceit (or worse, self-deception) that allows the incestuous relationship of false virtue (what we would now call virtue-signalling) to prop up continuation of vices.
You, of all people, should understand virtue-signalling masking evil. But your self-deception won't allow it.

Why do you keep failing at mind-reading?

But WHAT does this have to do with "Russia losing so much military equipment"?
Well, it doesn't.
It's irrelevant, like you.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


Russians weren't good enough in WWII, which is why 3 Russians died for every German. Russians weren't good enough after the war was over, and kept killing German-speaking civilians. Russians just aren't good enough, which is why they lose their equipment.

In the Ukraine war, Russia doesn't have Americans and Brits fighting Ukrainians on the Western front, so Russia won't be receiving new equipment from Americans and Brits to replace what the Russians lose. Too bad for Russia.

Maybe this weekend it is once again time for the Russians to compensate for incompetence by threatening to nuke everybody. Yes, that is what Russians are doing this weekend: https://www.google.com/search?q=russia+nuke

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Saturday, May 21, 2022 8:58 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


'The T-90 Russian tank was usually touted as invincible, but often in #Ukraine? seems to be turned into a pile of rusting metal.'
https://twitter.com/CalDisasters/status/1526328290729832448

The 59th Ukrainian MotorisedBrigade bombarded Russians tank and surface-to-air missile
https://gettr.com/post/p1ab3wz5bf5

Ukrainian Soldiers Use American M224 Mortar
https://funker530.com/video/ukrainian-soldiers-use-american-m224-morta
r
/

'Russia's most famous tank, the T-90M, has rusted away but as an exhibit it attracts huge numbers of tourists'
https://twitter.com/intermarium24/status/1527368185913425921

Russia reportedly loses most advanced tank during fighting in Ukraine
https://www.bitchute.com/video/Tin3BCs2uvBQ/


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Saturday, May 21, 2022 12:53 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
The whole topic appears to be a fact-free zone.



I keep giving you the opportunity to correct what many consider FACTUAL, but you keep running away. It's more of a Signym-free zone than anything else.

The following are what many sources - outside of the combatants directly involved and their biases - consider to be observably true. I've numbered them for your convenience. Please consider the number keeps growing.

Which ones do you consider false and why?

1. - Putin misjudged how his invasion would only unite "Ukies" and motivate them to fight back and embarras the Russian *army.
2. - Putin couldn't take Kyiv in 7 days despite his (anemic, train wreck) of a bull rush to do so. If it was a feint it was the most costly, dumbest feint in military history. In fact, ANY attempt to explain it as a "plan" makes it look even worse. "He meant to do that??"
3. - Russian military used insecure communications - "Hello, Dimitri? I am sitting here with the Z 48 battalion waiting for you... I am at the following coordinates..." boom.
4. - Putin keeps losing generals.
5. - Putin has united the West and the EU and NATO.
6. - Putin completely misjudged Finland and Sweden. Both are applying to join NATO, Putin's nightmare.
7. - Putin's own "G7" he has only one ally, Belarus, who have yet to join the fight. No ally really.
8. - Putin completely misjudged how many companies would leave Russia. ANY attempt to say that it was a plan makes it look even worse.
9. - Russian army failed to use proper logistics. 40 mile traffic jam/ cluster-fck.
10. - Russia loses their Prized ship to a country without a nvy.
11. - Putin has motivated many of the most educated Russians to leave the country - brain drain just like Stalin.
12. - Putin has caused long term damage to Russia's economy
13. - Putin has caused long term damage to Russia's world standing.
14. - Putin miscalculated how many young Russian soldiers would die.
15. - Russia failed to take out Ukraine air defense system.
16. - Putin has motivated some of Russia's largest oil and gas customers to find alternative suppliers, and - maybe most significantly - to accelerate their alternative energy programs (thanks Putin!).
17. - Putin is even losing the spin war. Except of course with his own state run tv brain washed and threatened citizens who face jail time for speaking the Truth.
18. - Putin misjudges just how much Russia is hated around the globe.
19. - Russian army failed to prepare their troops for what their real "operation" was.

If this reality/evidence of Putin's major fck up is wrong as you suggest, then it should be easy for you to show how they're wrong... right?

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Saturday, May 21, 2022 2:14 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

SIGNYM:
In your infinite condescension, SECOND, you assume I don't understand the poem.

Pity, like charity, is not a virtue, it's virtue-signalling expression of superiority. It grows from another vice, selfishness.
Vice begets vice, not virtue. In a truly virtuous world, pity, "peace" and (selfish) love wouldn't exist.
It is deceit (or worse, self-deception) that allows the incestuous relationship of false virtue (what we would now call virtue-signalling) to prop up continuation of vices.
You, of all people, should understand virtue-signalling masking evil. But your self-deception won't allow it.

Why do you keep failing at mind-reading?

But WHAT does this have to do with "Russia losing so much military equipment"?
Well, it doesn't.
It's irrelevant, like you.

SECOND: Russians weren't good enough in WWII, which is why 3 Russians died for every German. Russians weren't good enough after the war was over, and kept killing German-speaking civilians. Russians just aren't good enough, which is why they lose their equipment.

In the Ukraine war, Russia doesn't have Americans and Brits fighting Ukrainians on the Western front, so Russia won't be receiving new equipment from Americans and Brits to replace what the Russians lose. Too bad for Russia.

Maybe this weekend it is once again time for the Russians to compensate for incompetence by threatening to nuke everybody. Yes, that is what Russians are doing this weekend: https://www.google.com/search?q=russia+nuke

I guess we can nail that coffin shut about me "not understanding" the poem that I quote, eh, SECOND? I trust you won't bring it up again bc it only demonstrates that, while I understand you, you don't understand me.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Saturday, May 21, 2022 2:24 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
The whole topic appears to be a fact-free zone.



I keep giving you the opportunity to correct what many consider FACTUAL, but you keep running away. It's more of a Signym-free zone than anything else.

The following are what many sources - outside of the combatants directly involved and their biases - consider to be observably true. I've numbered them for your convenience. Please consider the number keeps growing.

Which ones do you consider false and why?

1. - Putin misjudged how his invasion would only unite "Ukies" and motivate them to fight back and embarras the Russian *army.
2. - Putin couldn't take Kyiv in 7 days despite his (anemic, train wreck) of a bull rush to do so. If it was a feint it was the most costly, dumbest feint in military history. In fact, ANY attempt to explain it as a "plan" makes it look even worse. "He meant to do that??"
3. - Russian military used insecure communications - "Hello, Dimitri? I am sitting here with the Z 48 battalion waiting for you... I am at the following coordinates..." boom.
4. - Putin keeps losing generals.
5. - Putin has united the West and the EU and NATO.
6. - Putin completely misjudged Finland and Sweden. Both are applying to join NATO, Putin's nightmare.
7. - Putin's own "G7" he has only one ally, Belarus, who have yet to join the fight. No ally really.
8. - Putin completely misjudged how many companies would leave Russia. ANY attempt to say that it was a plan makes it look even worse.
9. - Russian army failed to use proper logistics. 40 mile traffic jam/ cluster-fck.
10. - Russia loses their Prized ship to a country without a nvy.
11. - Putin has motivated many of the most educated Russians to leave the country - brain drain just like Stalin.
12. - Putin has caused long term damage to Russia's economy
13. - Putin has caused long term damage to Russia's world standing.
14. - Putin miscalculated how many young Russian soldiers would die.
15. - Russia failed to take out Ukraine air defense system.
16. - Putin has motivated some of Russia's largest oil and gas customers to find alternative suppliers, and - maybe most significantly - to accelerate their alternative energy programs (thanks Putin!).
17. - Putin is even losing the spin war. Except of course with his own state run tv brain washed and threatened citizens who face jail time for speaking the Truth.
18. - Putin misjudges just how much Russia is hated around the globe.
19. - Russian army failed to prepare their troops for what their real "operation" was.

If this reality/evidence of Putin's major fck up is wrong as you suggest, then it should be easy for you to show how they're wrong... right?

How many tanks, personnel carriers, howitzers, and other armored vehicles did the Russians lose? What percent of committed equipment does that represent?

Also, for comparison, how much similar equipment has Ukraine lost? What percent of committed equipment does THAT represent?

How does that compare to similar land wars? (I guess the closest comparison would be WWII).

Can we get reliable numbers? Bc you have not established the FACTS, you have only posted statements.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Saturday, May 21, 2022 2:39 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:

How many tanks, personnel carriers, howitzers, and other armored vehicles did the Russians lose? What percent of committed equipment does that represent?

Also, for comparison, how much similar equipment has Ukraine lost? What percent of committed equipment does THAT represent?

How does that compare to similar land wars? (I guess the closest comparison would be WWII).

Can we get reliable numbers? Bc you have not established the FACTS, you have only posted statements.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


That data is NOT available for any war that has ever been fought. Prove me wrong, Signym, by finding a URL that you trust that provides for whichever war you pick the same information as what you want on Ukraine.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Saturday, May 21, 2022 4:35 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Then, according to you, there are no facts to discuss.


In reality, I think the Russian MoD tends to provide pretty reliable figures for Ukrainian equipment destroyed, and estimates of numbers of Ukrainian soldiers killed. They don't lie or exaggerate (much) about their progress. Where they DO lie is by omission. They don't provide a list of THEIR equipment destroyed, only grudgingly admit a setback, and when they provide numbers of soldiers killed I'm sure that it's only confirmed dead of soldiers under Russian MoD command. They probably don't include MIA/presumed dead, may not include Chechen dead, would not include any mercs not under MoD command, and definitely don't include DPR/LPR losses.

OTOH the figures that Kiev provides are probably bloated to the point of ridiculousness since they have often lied about/exaggerated their progress so far.

AFA WWII is concerned, there ARE estimates available of #of troops commmitted and killed (on both sides, Russian and Nazi) as equipment lost. I frankly don't feel like doing the research to find those estamates, I've only heard them referred to glancingly when evaluating Kiev's claims.

But then, I'm not the one claiming to know how much equipment the Russians have lost.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Sunday, May 22, 2022 3:59 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


I know I should let this thread [die the death it so richly deserves] but I wanted to address this point:

Quote:

SIGNY:
... and couldn't give a shit about [Ukraine]...

CAPON: I think this part you are actually, sadly, pretty close on. Some people can't see beyond their front door.



What is the #1 job of the American President? Isn't it to promote the well-being of America, the nation, and of Americans, it's ctizens?

Not to

Provide a relief valve for corrupt Central and South American regimes (which we support) or to

Engage in feckless wars of destruction with other nuclear superpowers or to

Knock over smaller governments like bowling pins in endless "regime change" operations or to

Engage in grudge matches with other world leaders.

Where does the war in Ukraine benefit US? Couldn't WE use $40 billion to start repairing our infrastructure and re-industrializing the USA, as a matter of national security?


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Sunday, May 22, 2022 7:56 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
I know I should let this thread duecthecdearhbit so richly deserves but I wanted to address this point:

Quote:

SIGNY:
... and couldn't give a shit about [Ukraine]...

CAPON: I think this part you are actually, sadly, pretty close on. Some people can't see beyond their front door.



What is the #1 job of the American President? Isn't it to promote the well-being of America, the nation, and of Americans, it's ctizens?

Not to

Provide a relief valve for corrupt Central and South American regimes (which we support) or to

Engage in feckless wars of destruction with other nuclear superpowers or to

Knock over smaller governments like bowling pins in endless "regime change" operations or to

Engage in grudge matches with other world leaders.

Where does the war in Ukraine benefit US? Couldn't WE use $40 billion to start repairing our infrastructure and re-industrializing the USA, as a matter of national security?

Signym, it is NEVER an either/or choice. Congress can do both. Congress decides, not the President. If Congress wants another $40 billion for infrastructure, then it will pass a bill:

1) Nov 2021 - Congress has passed a $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill. The final vote was 228-206. Only thirteen Republicans voted with the majority of Democrats in support of the bill.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/05/politics/house-votes-infrastructure-bui
ld-back-better/index.html


2) May 2022 - In a show of broad bipartisan support, the Senate on Thursday passed legislation providing another $39.8 billion to help Ukraine. 86 Senators voted for and 11 voted against, after the measure cleared the House with overwhelming backing from members of both parties last week. All 11 senators who opposed the latest aid package are Republicans.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/senate-vote-ukraine-aid-bill/

How would Congress get the USA out of Ukraine? Same way Congress got the USA out of Vietnam:

In 1975, Congress refused President Gerald Ford's last-minute request to increase aid to South Vietnam by $300 million, just weeks before it fell to communist control. Few legislators had taken the request seriously; many conservative Republicans and hawkish Democrats agreed by then that Vietnam was lost and that the expenditure would have been a waste. Nor did Congress restrict its actions to Southeast Asia. Congress passed an amendment in 1976 that banned the use of funds to fight communist forces in Angola.
https://prospect.org/features/congress-got-us-vietnam/

If Congress has a coherent policy, Congress gets the policy it wants. If Congress is incoherent, the President gets the policy he wants. That is how the US government has always worked for hundreds of years.




The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Sunday, May 22, 2022 8:03 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
The whole topic appears to be a fact-free zone.



I keep giving you the opportunity to correct what many consider FACTUAL, but you keep running away. It's more of a Signym-free zone than anything else.

The following are what many sources - outside of the combatants directly involved and their biases - consider to be observably true. I've numbered them for your convenience. Please consider the number keeps growing.

Which ones do you consider false and why?

1. - Putin misjudged how his invasion would only unite "Ukies" and motivate them to fight back and embarras the Russian *army.
2. - Putin couldn't take Kyiv in 7 days despite his (anemic, train wreck) of a bull rush to do so. If it was a feint it was the most costly, dumbest feint in military history. In fact, ANY attempt to explain it as a "plan" makes it look even worse. "He meant to do that??"
3. - Russian military used insecure communications - "Hello, Dimitri? I am sitting here with the Z 48 battalion waiting for you... I am at the following coordinates..." boom.
4. - Putin keeps losing generals.
5. - Putin has united the West and the EU and NATO.
6. - Putin completely misjudged Finland and Sweden. Both are applying to join NATO, Putin's nightmare.
7. - Putin's own "G7" he has only one ally, Belarus, who have yet to join the fight. No ally really.
8. - Putin completely misjudged how many companies would leave Russia. ANY attempt to say that it was a plan makes it look even worse.
9. - Russian army failed to use proper logistics. 40 mile traffic jam/ cluster-fck.
10. - Russia loses their Prized ship to a country without a nvy.
11. - Putin has motivated many of the most educated Russians to leave the country - brain drain just like Stalin.
12. - Putin has caused long term damage to Russia's economy
13. - Putin has caused long term damage to Russia's world standing.
14. - Putin miscalculated how many young Russian soldiers would die.
15. - Russia failed to take out Ukraine air defense system.
16. - Putin has motivated some of Russia's largest oil and gas customers to find alternative suppliers, and - maybe most significantly - to accelerate their alternative energy programs (thanks Putin!).
17. - Putin is even losing the spin war. Except of course with his own state run tv brain washed and threatened citizens who face jail time for speaking the Truth.
18. - Putin misjudges just how much Russia is hated around the globe.
19. - Russian army failed to prepare their troops for what their real "operation" was.

If this reality/evidence of Putin's major fck up is wrong as you suggest, then it should be easy for you to show how they're wrong... right?

How many tanks, personnel carriers, howitzers, and other armored vehicles did the Russians lose? What percent of committed equipment does that represent?

Also, for comparison, how much similar equipment has Ukraine lost? What percent of committed equipment does THAT represent?

How does that compare to similar land wars? (I guess the closest comparison would be WWII).

Can we get reliable numbers? Bc you have not established the FACTS, you have only posted statements.




Which number was that answer to? Any? Wait, NONE of them? You can't refute ANY of them??

So you find all 19 FACTUAL, then. At least we agree on what a considerable failure this has been so far for Putin

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Sunday, May 22, 2022 8:05 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
I know I should let this thread duecthecdearhbit so richly deserves but I wanted to address this point:



duecthecdearhbit ?

Decoded: ZIGNYM: "I'm embarrassing the sht out of myself, better beat cheeks and get out of this thread!"

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Sunday, May 22, 2022 8:29 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Why are you guys so worried about Russia invading Ukraine when Biden* is trying to just give up American sovereignty to the WHO?

--------------------------------------------------

Me: "Remember Covid?"

Useless Idiots: "What's Covid, durr? Russia, Ukraine, Putin, NATO *drool*. DURRRR!!!!"

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Sunday, May 22, 2022 9:27 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Why are you guys so worried about Russia invading Ukraine when Biden* is trying to just give up American sovereignty to the WHO?

You are on the same side as the Republicans who voted to not pass H.R.7691 - Additional Ukraine Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2022.

The names of everybody who voted are here:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/7691/all-actio
ns


My Representative, Brian Babin, and about 100 of his most recent votes: https://clerk.house.gov/members/B001291
It is no wonder these Representatives are dizzy and confused. There are too many votes every day on trivial issues. It is unsurprising when the decisions made in that messy bureaucracy of Congress are silly. Who designed the details of this dumb arrangement to pass laws and make decisions? Somebody who has been dead for 100 years and has been memorialized by a marble statue in a dusty corner of the Capitol Building.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Sunday, May 22, 2022 9:36 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Why are you guys so worried about Russia invading Ukraine when Biden* is trying to just give up American sovereignty to the WHO?


--------------------------------------------------

Me: "Remember Covid?"

Useless Idiots: "What's Covid, durr? Russia, Ukraine, Putin, NATO *drool*. DURRRR!!!!"

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Sunday, May 22, 2022 9:37 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Your blind partisanship is going to see you and everyone you care about locked up in a cage.

--------------------------------------------------

Me: "Remember Covid?"

Useless Idiots: "What's Covid, durr? Russia, Ukraine, Putin, NATO *drool*. DURRRR!!!!"

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Sunday, May 22, 2022 12:00 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

SIGNY:I know I should let this thread [die the death it] so richly deserves but I wanted to address this point:

Quote:

SIGNY:
... and couldn't give a shit about [Ukraine]...

CAPON: I think this part you are actually, sadly, pretty close on. Some people can't see beyond their front door.



What is the #1 job of the American President? Isn't it to promote the well-being of America, the nation, and of Americans, it's ctizens?

Not to

Provide a relief valve for corrupt Central and South American regimes (which we support) or to

Engage in feckless wars of destruction with other nuclear superpowers or to

Knock over smaller governments like bowling pins in endless "regime change" operations or to

Engage in grudge matches with other world leaders.

Where does the war in Ukraine benefit US? Couldn't WE use $40 billion to start repairing our infrastructure and re-industrializing the USA, as a matter of national security?

SECOND: Signym, it is NEVER an either/or choice. Congress can do both. Congress decides, not the President. If Congress wants another $40 billion for infrastructure, then it will pass a bill:



WHY DO "BOTH"?
The job of the President ... AND CONGRESS... is to protect American security and American interests. Many of our Founding Fathers did NOT want America to engage in "foreign entanglements" or join alliances bc they feared American would be drawn into other nations' wars.

I can see protecting Amerian embassies. I can see protecting American ships against piracy in international waters. I'm not sure I can see America protecting corporate investments/assets abroad. If you invest in oil wells or refineries or mines or plantations or factories abroad, in an unstable government in a nation of impoverished resentful people .... Shouldn't they take that into account? Isn't "capitalism" all about TAKING RISK? Shouldn't they ingratiate themselves to the local population? Don't they have money for security? If revolution occurs and the (new) foreign government nationalizes foreign assets ... well, our government has all kinds of legal and financial remedies in government-to-government or government-to-international agency (WTO, BIS etc) or government-to-currency/trade setting.

BTW,it is THE JOB of the President to set foreign policy. That's something Congress CAN'T do.

The last time the President and Congress tried to do both was Vietnam under Johnson. All that war and Great Society spending did was set off double-digit inflation (gee, sound faniliar?) which Nixon tackled with wage-price controls and The Fed tackled with high interest rates.Inflation eventually COLLAPSED the BRETTON-WOODS agreement, took the dollar off the gold standard, and caused the creation of the petro-dollar in place of Bretton-Woods.

What will all of that wartime and Covid-relief spending do NOW? Cause eventual de-dollarization? Collapse the petrodollar? Hell, if we can't make money-printer go brrrrrr to buy shit from abroad, and we no longer make it here ...

How does that help AMERICAN SECURITY?


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Sunday, May 22, 2022 12:03 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
I know I should let this thread duecthecdearhbit so richly deserves but I wanted to address this point:



duecthecdearhbit ?

Decoded: ZIGNYM: "I'm embarrassing the sht out of myself, better beat cheeks and get out of this thread!"



Sorry. Cellphone + no glasses + lack of time.

Let me decode that for you:

die the death it so richly deserves

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Sunday, May 22, 2022 12:06 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

SIGNY: The whole topic appears to be a fact-free zone.


CAPON: I keep giving you the opportunity to correct what many consider

A billion flies eat shit.
Quote:

FACTUAL, but you keep running away. It's more of a Signym-free zone than anything else.


Your topic was (may I remind you) "why is Russia losing SO MUCH military equipment?"

The you spend most of the rest of your post discussing almost anything but.
HOW MUCH is "so much"?
HOW MANY tanks, armored personnel carriers, rocket launchers, artillery, etc has Russian lost?

Quote:

The following are what many sources - outside of the combatants directly involved and their biases - consider to be observably true. I've numbered them for your convenience. Please consider the number keeps growing.

Which ones do you consider false and why?

1. - Putin misjudged how his invasion would only unite "Ukies" and motivate them to fight back and embarras the Russian *army.

How do you know this? Have you been sitting in on Russia's Seurity Council meetings? How does this describe "HOW MUCH" military equipment has been lost? Where are the numbers?
Quote:

2. - Putin couldn't take Kyiv in 7 days despite his (anemic, train wreck) of a bull rush to do so. If it was a feint it was the most costly, dumbest feint in military history. In fact, ANY attempt to explain it as a "plan" makes it look even worse. "He meant to do that??"
Same as above
Quote:

3. - Russian military used insecure communications - "Hello, Dimitri? I am sitting here with the Z 48 battalion waiting for you... I am at the following coordinates..." boom.
You can see the secure comms antenna on Russian equiment. Plus, it is the policy of the Russian MoD to take soldiers' cellphones away, which is why you see so few Russian-sourced videos online. If this happens IT IS RARE.
Plus, how does this provide a number for HOW MUCH military equipment?

Quote:

4. - Putin keeps losing generals.
Only one.
HOW MUCH military equipment?
Quote:

5. - Putin has united the West and the EU and NATO.

HOW MUCH military equipment?
Quote:

6. - Putin completely misjudged Finland and Sweden. Both are applying to join NATO, Putin's nightmare.
HOW MUCH military equipment?
Quote:

7. - Putin's own "G7" he has only one ally, Belarus, who have yet to join the fight. No ally really.
HOW MUCH military equipment?
Quote:

8. - Putin completely misjudged how many companies would leave Russia. ANY attempt to say that it was a plan makes it look even worse.
HOW MUCH military equipment?
Quote:

9. - Russian army failed to use proper logistics. 40 mile traffic jam/ cluster-fck.
HOW MUCH military equipment?
Quote:

10. - Russia loses their Prized ship to a country without a nvy.

Ah, one ship. It was not "prized". It was due for decomissioning back in the 1990s.
Quote:

11. - Putin has motivated many of the most educated Russians to leave the country - brain drain just like Stalin.
HOW MUCH military equipment?
Quote:

12. - Putin has caused long term damage to Russia's economy
HOW MUCH military equipment?
Quote:

13. - Putin has caused long term damage to Russia's world standing.
HOW MUCH military equipment?
Quote:

14. - Putin miscalculated how many young Russian soldiers would die.
HOW MANY soldiers died?
HOW MUCH military equipment?
Quote:

15. - Russia failed to take out Ukraine air defense system.
HOW MUCH military equipment?
Quote:

16. - Putin has motivated some of Russia's largest oil and gas customers to find alternative suppliers, and - maybe most significantly - to accelerate their alternative energy programs (thanks Putin!).
HOW MUCH military equipment?
Quote:

17. - Putin is even losing the spin war. Except of course with his own state run tv brain washed and threatened citizens who face jail time for speaking the Truth.
18. - Putin misjudges just how much Russia is hated around the globe.

HOW MUCH military equipment?
Quote:

19. - Russian army failed to prepare their troops for what their real "operation" was.
HOW MUCH military equipment?

You have not established as FACT that Russia is losing an extraordinary amount of equioment. Your thread is based on an ASSUMPTION.

And because it's based on an assumption, nearly all of your statements are irrelevant to your topic.
They're also mostly flat-out wrong and/or evidence-free. But a discussion of how wrong they are doesn't belong in this thread bc it's off-topic.

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Sunday, May 22, 2022 2:04 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

SIGNY: The whole topic appears to be a fact-free zone.


CAPON: I keep giving you the opportunity to correct what many consider

A billion flies eat shit.
Quote:

FACTUAL, but you keep running away. It's more of a Signym-free zone than anything else.
Your topic was (may I remind you) "why is Russia losing SO MUCH military equipment?"

The you spend most of the rest of your post discussing almost anything but.
HOW MUCH is "so much"?
HOW MANY tanks, armored personnel carriers, rocket launchers, artillery, etc has Russian lost?
Quote:

The following are what many sources - outside of the combatants directly involved and their biases - consider to be observably true. I've numbered them for your convenience. Please consider the number keeps growing.

Which ones do you consider false and why?

1. - Putin misjudged how his invasion would only unite "Ukies" and motivate them to fight back and embarras the Russian *army.

How do you know this? Have you been sitting in on Russia's Seurity Council meetings? How does this describe "HOW MUCH" military equipment has been lost? Where are the numbers?
Quote:

2. - Putin couldn't take Kyiv in 7 days despite his (anemic, train wreck) of a bull rush to do so. If it was a feint it was the most costly, dumbest feint in military history. In fact, ANY attempt to explain it as a "plan" makes it look even worse. "He meant to do that??"
Same as above
Quote:

3. - Russian military used insecure communications - "Hello, Dimitri? I am sitting here with the Z 48 battalion waiting for you... I am at the following coordinates..." boom.
You can see the secure comms antenna on Russian equiment. Plus, it is the policy of the Russian MoD to take soldiers' cellphones away, which is why you see so few Russian-sourced videos online. If this happens IT IS RARE.
Plus, how does this provide a number for HOW MUCH military equipment?

Quote:

4. - Putin keeps losing generals.
Only one.

Which General?
Quote:

HOW MUCH military equipment?

Quote:

10. - Russia loses their Prized ship to a country without a nvy.
Ah, one ship. It was not "prized". It was due for decomissioning back in the 1990s.

Quote:

14. - Putin miscalculated how many young Russian soldiers would die.
HOW MANY soldiers died?
HOW MUCH military equipment?


You have not established as FACT that Russia is losing an extraordinary amount of equioment. Your thread is based on an ASSUMPTION.

And because it's based on an assumption, nearly all of your statements are irrelevant to your topic.
They're also mostly flat-out wrong and/or evidence-free. But a discussion of how wrong they are doesn't belong in this thread bc it's off-topic.


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Sunday, May 22, 2022 2:18 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Major General Andrei Sukhovetsky, Deputy Commander of the 41st Combined Arms Army of the Russian Ground Forces
See more at https://english.pravda.ru/news/world/150554-russian_general/

High-ranking military commanders HAVE been killed in Ukraine, but they were not at the rank considered to be equivalent to US military general. Some were at the rank equivalent to brigadier, which is kind of a gray area between colonel and general. Others at the rank of colonel.

Russian military puts commanders at the front line.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Sunday, May 22, 2022 2:35 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Major General Andrei Sukhovetsky, Deputy Commander of the 41st Combined Arms Army of the Russian Ground Forces
See more at https://english.pravda.ru/news/world/150554-russian_general/

High-ranking military commanders HAVE been killed in Ukraine, but they were not at the rank considered to be equivalent to US military general. Some were at the rank equivalent to brigadier, which is kind of a gray area between colonel and general. Others at the rank of colonel.

Russian military puts commanders at the front line.

You mean, like, Brigadier General, like, fer sure?

Most folks comprehend that GENERALS are included in the ranks of General Officers, Admirals. Like Brigadier GENERAL, Major GENERAL, Lieutenant GENERAL, Field GENERAL, for example.

Enlighten us, praytell, how Generals are a gray area between Colonel/Captain and General/Admiral.

Even your admitted example is merely a Major General, only one rank and only one Star above Brigadier General. Still a rank and a Star below Lieutenant General (3 Stars). As well as 2 ranks and 2 Stars below 4 Star Generals.

Why do you not claim Major Generals are a gray area between Majors and Generals?


For those perusing and unsure of military rank in U.S. (pay grade, non-Naval rank, Naval Rank, insignia):

Commissioned (by Congress) Officers
O-1 2nd Lieutenant, Ensign (Gold Bar)
O-2 1st Lieutenant, Lieutenant Junior Grade (Silver Bar)
O-3 Captain, Lieutenant (Twin Silver Bars)

Field Grade Officers
O-4 Major, Lieutenant Commander (Gold Oak Leaf Cluster)
O-5 Lieutenant Colonel, Commander (Silver Oak Leaf Cluster)
O-6 Colonel, Captain (Silver Eagle)

General Officers, Flag Officers
O-7 Brigadier General, Rear Admiral Lower Half (1 Star)
O-8 Major General, Rear Admiral Upper Half (2 Stars)
O-9 Lieutenant General, Vice Admiral (3 Stars)
O-10 General, Admiral (4 Stars)
O-11 Field General, Fleet Admiral (5 Stars)

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Sunday, May 22, 2022 3:49 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Brigadiers command a brigade. In some militaries they aren't considered generals, in other militaries they are. Quoting American military ranks is not helpful.

Quote:

What is the difference between brigadier and general


As nouns the difference between brigadier and general is that brigadier is (military) an army rank; an officer commanding a brigade while general is commander of an army.


https://wikidiff.com/brigadier/general


Since Russia only recognizes the death of one general, I assumed they don't consider brigadiers to be in the "general" rank. Or maybe they're just word-smithing to minimize their losses. But I DID look up the difference between brigadier and general to try to understand the discrepancy between western and Russian reporting.

Like I posted, other high-ranking officers HAVE been killed. Brigadiers (or brigadier generals) and colonels for sure.

But thanks for the explanation of the American military ranking system.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Sunday, May 22, 2022 8:42 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Major General Andrei Sukhovetsky, Deputy Commander of the 41st Combined Arms Army of the Russian Ground Forces
See more at https://english.pravda.ru/news/world/150554-russian_general/

High-ranking military commanders HAVE been killed in Ukraine, but they were not at the rank considered to be equivalent to US military general. Some were at the rank equivalent to brigadier, which is kind of a gray area between colonel and general. Others at the rank of colonel.

Russian military puts commanders at the front line.

Oh, so sorry to have quoted American military rank structure, being not helpful.

Could you please enlighten us as to which United States military is not based in America?

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Sunday, May 22, 2022 9:11 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Brigadiers command a brigade. In some militaries they aren't considered generals, in other militaries they are. Quoting American military ranks is not helpful.
Quote:

What is the difference between brigadier and general

As nouns the difference between brigadier and general is that brigadier is (military) an army rank; an officer commanding a brigade while general is commander of an army.

https://wikidiff.com/brigadier/general

Since Russia only recognizes the death of one general, I assumed they don't consider brigadiers to be in the "general" rank. Or maybe they're just word-smithing to minimize their losses. But I DID look up the difference between brigadier and general to try to understand the discrepancy between western and Russian reporting.

Like I posted, other high-ranking officers HAVE been killed. Brigadiers (or brigadier generals) and colonels for sure.

But thanks for the explanation of the American military ranking system.

Quoted for context.

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Sunday, May 22, 2022 9:12 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


You missed the point.

If we were talking about ANERICAN commander deaths we would be referring to AMERICAN military ranks. But we are talking about RUSSIAN commander deaths and therefore RUSSIAN military ranks, are we not? They don't organize their military like we do. Different ranks may go by same names but have different levels of responsibility and authority.

I'm not familiar with which Russian rankings may be equivalent to what American rankings. Possibly there are no exact analogs. So I'm going with how the Russians report it.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake


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Sunday, May 22, 2022 9:48 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


OK. So, equivalent to United States military, not so much.

Wikipedia has a list of equivalents, not sure of accuracy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_ranks_and_insignia_of_the_Russian_F
ederation


Among General Officer ranks, they have a Marshal, which seems to be highest rank. Their Major Generals are 1 Stars, equivalent to Brigadier General in US Army, Marines, Air Force. Total of 5 ranks of Generals in Russia.

They apparently have no rank named brigadier.

They have 4 ranks of Field Grade Officer, compared to 3 in most developed nation military.

Still have 3 ranks of Junior Officers.

For General Officers, 5 Stars in America used to be reserved for Wartime only, Fleet Admirals and Field Generals. After Clinton subverted American military commands to be ruled by any 2-bit Banana Republic, some 5 Stars would be made so that we had somebody who outranked the clowns who were handed extra Stars in their cereal boxes.

Anyhow, U.S. normally has 4 ranks of Generals. Not sure how often Russia populates their Marshal rank - they haven't had a World War in almost 8 decades.

I mention this in case you are interested in how bloated their Officer ranks are - 11 or 12 in Russia versus 10 peacetime in America.
They seem to have "Enlisted" rank of 8 including 2 Warrant Officer ranks. While U.S. has had 9 Enlisted ranks plus 4 Warrant Officer ranks (still considered Enlisted) for 13 total.

You may wish to check the Commissioned Officer/Enlisted ratio of different U.S. branches (Army, Marines, Air Force, Navy) and use that to compare to Russia military.

ETA: I took a look at U.S.
1 Officer per 4.6 Enlisted across all U.S. branches.
1 Officer per 4.1 Enlisted in Air Force (2018). About 1:3 in 2010.

1 Officer per 7.8 Enlisted in Marine Corps (2017). About 1:10 in 2010, 1:30 in the field.

Jeez, the rest is hard to find.

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