Quote:

---

Originally posted by Righteous9:



We come in at like 47th or something on the freedom index for press,

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by yinyang:
Actually, the U.S. was ranked 17th in 2002, and 22nd in 2004:

http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=4116 (2002)
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=11715 (2004)

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
America.... You've come a long way baby.

Don't let the haters get you down.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by yinyang:
Actually, the U.S. was ranked 17th in 2002, and 22nd in 2004:

http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=4116 (2002)
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=11715 (2004)

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rallem:
I don't think there is any real study of our freedom of the press and I also think we are rated low whenever there is a Republican President just to make that office look bad.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rallem:
Your point is what?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
They're jealous of our long work hours, our high crime rate, our homelessness, our boob of a President, our monopolism, our lack of health-care. And what they're REALLY jealous of is our system of government, which is freely selected by a corrupted and fraudulent voting system.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Geezer:

At least you're consistant. Any time anyone says anything less than disparaging about the US you gotta jump up with your litany of horrors. I don't believe that I have ever seen you post anything at all positive about your country.

Admit it, Siggy. You're the hater.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

Thanx, Yin. I am a little confused by the 2 posts, and 2 different ratings, only 15 min. apart.And as I suggested, I could buy not in the Top Ten-- which makes 17th or 22nd reasonable, but not 47th. And I was pretty close , off the top of my head, with 150 nations instead of 169-- I guess-timated closer than I thought I could. Gonna hafta look at all the links you provided and see if I agree or not.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Yah, because if you're not 100% for America you're just "hating" on America, right? God forbid someone would point out many of the tragic horrors that go on in the USA on a daily basis.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Righteous9:
First, that requires being inquisitive about the very premise.

Second, that requires being critical of ourselves if we are falling short of the mark., saying so if we've become feet dragging followers rather than leaders.

To do the opposite is not patriotic, because in order to be patriotic you have to try to preserve the ideals that this nation was founded on. You have to believe in the constitution and the bill of rights.

---

Quote:

---

How on Earth can Republicans control most of the American media, spend most of the time controlling the US Government, and yet still have a colossal victim complex? Is this some sort of undiscovered mental illness?

---

Quote:

---

How on Earth can Republicans control most of the American media, spend most of the time controlling the US Government, and yet still have a colossal victim complex? Is this some sort of undiscovered mental illness?

---

Quote:

---

If Siggy ever did anything but point out (and often exaggerate) things that aren't right in the US, I'd consider her just like anyone else. There's good and bad here to be noted. But she's 100% critical of everything about the US, or at least has never mentioned a positive. I'd say that qualifies as hating.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Umm, the GOP controls nary any of the media, and its the Democrats who control both Congress and Senate. What civics courses you took which some how states a party only owning 1/3 of the 3 branches of Government is somehow in control of that Gov....is beyond me.

---

Quote:

---

The Republicans are in control of the house of representatives and the presidency far more often than they are not, which is basically what I said, and that assertion is not refuted by saying "not at the moment they're not!". How you can think it does is also beyond me

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
Geezer, can you even envision for a moment a LITTLE bit of air between "the United States" and "capitalism"? Or are they synonymous in your mind?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AURaptor:
You continue to falsly assume that, because some one owns a radio or t.v. network, and they might be conservative, they MUST dictate how the news gets reported. CLEARLY, the evidence does not support that claim.

---

Quote:

---

When, in late July, a study was released suggesting that George W. Bush was getting more positive presidential election coverage than Al Gore, the Media Research Center wasted no time in bringing out the long knives.

The study was conducted by the Project for Excellence in Journalism and the Committee for Concerned Journalists ("funded by the liberal Pew Charitable Trusts," MRC wants you to know) and was based on one sample week each month over five months in early 2000, focused on media coverage of specific character-related "themes" of the Bush and Gore campaign. It concluded that coverage of Gore tended to focus on negative themes, while coverage of Bush tended to focus on positive themes.

---

Quote:

---

The findings include:

# On select issues from corporate power and trade to Social Security and Medicare to health care and taxes, journalists are actually more conservative than the general public.

# Journalists are mostly centrist in their political orientation.

# The minority of journalists who do not identify with the "center" are more likely to identify with the "right" when it comes to economic issues and to identify with the "left" when it comes to social issues.

# Journalists report that "business-oriented news outlets" and "major daily newspapers" provide the highest quality coverage of economic policy issues, while "broadcast network TV news" and "cable news services" provide the worst.

---

Quote:

---

Well, I'll give you half credit on this one. True, the GOP has sat in the Oval Office much more than the Democrats. But as for the House of Representatives ?? Another lesson begins.....

---

Quote:

---

You're hung up on what the journalists think, but it proves nothing, you need to demonstrate where the media, not individual journalist, actually leans left. You haven't done that.

---

Quote:

---

In at least one respect they are synonymous. You never have anything good to say about either.

---

Quote:

---

I can only go on what I see here in RWED, but all I see from you is someone who spouts unremitting vitriol against the US, and at anyone who does not agree with 100% of your opinions about it.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Now I have. Enjoy
...
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Media-Bias-Is-Real-Finds-UCLA-666
4.aspx?RelNum=6664

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
IMHO, everything that's seriously wrong with the United States can be traced back to corporatism.

---

Quote:

---

I've had lots of good things to say about our Constitution, separation of church and state, ability to self-correct etc.

---

Quote:

---

Unlike some of our Libertarian brethren I even envision a positive role for elected government.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by citizen:
Cool, now we have something to work with. This is, in fact an opinion piece, with no links as I can see to the actual underlying study itself...

---

Quote:

---

We are training our guns on any media outlet or any reporter interfering with America's war on terrorism or trying to undermine the authority of President Bush. We are taking no prisoners!

---

Quote:

---

unless you consider corporatism and monopolism synonymous

---

Quote:

---

I can't find them. Cites please

---

Quote:

---

And BTW, even the most ardent libertarian here knows that we're not going to get rid of government alltogether. most would be happy just reducing its size and power.

---

....more corporations!
As if that's gonna help!

Much as YOU would like to blur the lines the Founding Fathers, to the best of my knowledge, tried to create a system of government not a system of monopolies or an empire to feed them. When I think about what's best about this nation, its the ideals of Jefferson, Adams, and Franklin.

So now you've just read something positive from me about the USA (which, if you'd been paying attention, you'd realize is just a repeat of what I've said before.)

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:

"They're jealous of our long work hours..."
And who made that necessary? Corporations, of course.

"our high crime rate, our homelessness..."
In my opinion, a result of an economic ideology that pits everyone against everyone, where there is no room for societal goals.

"our boob of a President..."
Thanks to the dumbed-down discourse that been foisted on us by an advertising culture and corporately-owned media.

"our monopolism..."
Thanks to, well, the monopolies

"our lack of health-care."
Thanks to corporations

"And what they're REALLY jealous of is our system of government, which is freely selected by a corrupted and fraudulent voting system."
Thanks to Diebold, Choicepoint, and other corporations, and the prevailing viewpoint that anything that can be done MUST be done by a for-profit business... including the voting process.

---

Quote:

---

"They're jealous of our long work hours..."
And who made that necessary? Corporations, of course.

---

Quote:

---

"our high crime rate, our homelessness..."
In my opinion, a result of an economic ideology that pits everyone against everyone, where there is no room for societal goals.

---

Quote:

---

"our boob of a President..."
Thanks to the dumbed-down discourse that been foisted on us by an advertising culture and corporately-owned media.

---

Quote:

---

"And what they're REALLY jealous of is our system of government, which is freely selected by a corrupted and fraudulent voting system."
Thanks to Diebold, Choicepoint, and other corporations, and the prevailing viewpoint that anything that can be done MUST be done by a for-profit business... including the voting process. (See Hacking Democracy)

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rallem:
We are not a democracy and I am surprised that people in this country still embrace this idea that we are when it quite clearly states in paragraph four of chapter four of our constitution that the Government must be run in the form of a republic. Am I going to have to explain to you the differences between a democracy and a republic, or can I trust that you’ll look it up?

---

Quote:

---

Our president isn't a genius because he has an IQ of 120. What is yours again?

---

Quote:

---

somewhere in the 20th century the United States Government decided that since there were 120 hours in a week that 40 of them will go to work, 40 to recreation, and 40 to sleep.

---

Quote:

---

In the United States, Philadelphia carpenters went on strike in 1791 for the ten-hour day. By the 1830s, this had become a general demand. In 1835, workers in Philadelphia organized a general strike, led by Irish coal heavers. Their banners read, From 6 to 6, ten hours work and two hours for meals. Labor movement publications called for an eight-hour day as early as 1836. Boston ship carpenters, although not unionized, achieved an eight-hour day in 1842.
In 1864, the eight-hour day quickly became a central demand of the Chicago labor movement. The Illinois legislature passed a law in early 1867 granting an eight-hour day but had so many loopholes that it was largely ineffective. A city-wide strike that began on May 1, 1867, shut down the city's economy for a week before collapsing. In 1868, Congress passed an eight-hour law for federal employees, which was also of limited effectiveness.
In August 1866 the National Labor Union at Baltimore passed a resolution that said, "The first and great necessity of the present to free labour of this country from capitalist slavery, is the passing of a law by which eight hours shall be the normal working day in all States of the American Union. We are resolved to put forth all our strength until this glorious result is achieved."
During the 1870s, eight hours became a central demand, especially among labor organizers, anarchists and socialists, with a network of Eight-Hour Leagues which held rallies and parades. A hundred thousand workers in New York City struck and won the eight-hour day in 1872, mostly for building trades workers. In Chicago, Albert Parsons became recording secretary of the Chicago Eight-Hour League in 1878, and was appointed a member of a national eight-hour committee in 1880.
At its convention in Chicago in 1884, the Federation of Organized Trades and Labor Unions resolved that "eight hours shall constitute a legal day's labour from and after May 1, 1886, and that we recommend to labour organizations throughout this jurisdiction that they so direct their laws as to conform to this resolution by the time named."
The leadership of the Knights of Labor, under Terence V. Powderly, rejected appeals to join the movement as a whole, but many local Knights assemblies joined the strike call including Chicago, Cincinnati and Milwaukee. On May 1, 1886, Albert Parsons, head of the Chicago Knights of Labor, with his wife Lucy Parsons and two children, led 80,000 people down Michigan Avenue, Chicago, in what is regarded as the first-ever modern May Day Parade, in support of the eight-hour day. In the next few days they were joined nationwide by 350,000 workers who went on strike at 1,200 factories, including 70,000 in Chicago, 45,000 in New York, 32,000 in Cincinnati, and additional thousands in other cities. Some workers gained shorter hours (eight or nine) with no reduction in pay; others accepted pay cuts with the reduction in hours.


On May 3, 1886, August Spies, editor of the Arbeiter-Zeitung (Workers Newspaper), spoke at a meeting of 6,000 workers, and afterwards many of them moved down the street to harass strikebreakers at the McCormick plant in Chicago. The police arrived, opened fire, and killed four people, wounding many more. At a subsequent rally on May 4 to protest this violence, a bomb exploded at the Haymarket Square. Hundreds of labour activists were rounded up and the prominent labour leaders arrested, tried, convicted, and executed giving the movement its first martyrs. On June 26, 1893 Illinois Governor John Peter Altgeld set the remaining leader free, and granted full pardons to all those tried claiming they were innocent of the crime for which they had been tried and the hanged men had been the victims of "hysteria, packed juries and a biased judge".
The American Federation of Labor, meeting in St Louis in December 1888, set May 1, 1890 as the day that American workers should work no more than eight hours. The International Workingmen's Association (Second International), meeting in Paris in 1889, endorsed the date for international demonstrations, thus starting the international tradition of May Day.
The United Mine Workers won an eight-hour work day in 1898.
The Building Trades Council (BTC) of San Francisco, under the leadership of P.H. McCarthy, won the eight-hour day in 1900 when the BTC unilaterally declared that its members would work only eight hours a day for $3 a day. When mill resisted, the BTC began organizing mill workers; the employers responded by locking out 8,000 employees throughout the Bay Area. The BTC, in return, established a union planing mill from which construction employers could obtain supplies — or face boycotts and sympathy strikes if they did not. The mill owners went to arbitration, where the union won the eight-hour day, a closed shop for all skilled workers, and an arbitration panel to resolve future disputes. In return, the union agreed to refuse to work with material produced by non-union planing mills or those that paid less than the Bay Area employers.
By 1905 the Eight-hour day is widely installed in the printing trades.
On January 5, 1914, the Ford Motor Company took the radical step of doubling pay to $5 a day, and cut shifts from nine hours to an eight hour day, moves that were not popular with rival companies, although seeing the increase in Ford's productivity, most soon followed suit.
The Adamson Act was a United States law passed in 1916 that established an eight-hour workday, with additional pay for overtime work, for railroad workers. This was the first federal law that regulated the hours of workers in private companies. The United States Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the Act in 1917.
The eight-hour day was realized for many working people in the U.S. in 1938, when the Fair Labor Standards Act (29 U.S. Code Chapter 8) under the New Deal made it a legal day's work throughout the nation.

---

Quote:

---

Even assuming that these assertions are true (but that's for another thread), the caveat that it's all due to corporatism is not what you originally said, or what you generally ever say, when the subject of the US comes up.

---

Quote:

---

If we lived with the same government we had when the Founding Fathers were alive we'd still have slavery, only rich white men could vote, pretty much only men could own property, etc. I'd say there have been some improvements.

---

Quote:

---

It used to be people in this country worked from sun up till sun down, but somewhere in the 20th century the United States Government decided that since there were 120 hours in a week that 40 of them will go to work, 40 to recreation, and 40 to sleep. I don't know where you get this gripe about having to work long hours unless you're from Italy or maybe France where they don't believe in putting in a fair days labor for a fair days pay.

---

Quote:

---

There were high crime rates long before there were corporations and there was a high level of homelessness then too, and the causes for homelessness are plentiful so trying to blame these issues on corporations is a bit unfair I think.

---

Quote:

---

Also in America it is against the law to hold a monopoly unless you can get a special permit by the government like maybe a professional sports organization.

---

Quote:

---

Our president isn't a genius because he has an IQ of 120. What is yours again? From some of the conclusions you've shown I would guess 85?

---

Quote:

---

We are not a democracy and I am surprised that people in this country still embrace this idea that we are when it quite clearly states in paragraph four of chapter four of our constitution that the Government must be run in the form of a republic. Am I going to have to explain to you the differences between a democracy and a republic, or can I trust that you’ll look it up?

---

Quote:

---

All of the news outlets except Fox News’ Special Report received a score to the left of the average member of Congress.

---