Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
The Boston Globe
Human Rights Group Says It Has Proof of Detainee Abuse
WASHINGTON - A Cambridge-based human rights organization said it has found medical evidence supporting the claims of 11 former detainees who were allegedly tortured while in American custody between 2001 and 2004, in what a former top US military investigator said amounts to evidence of war crimes.
Four of the men were captured in Afghanistan and imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and seven were held in Iraq. All were released in recent years, and none was charged with a crime.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Proof of a Left wing dominated media.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
"Terrorists and terrorist enablers are well trained in lies and deception." They deserved it.

"Then again, there are those who simply hate America ..." When we do it, it's good.

"... who cry for every terrorist murderer who claims they were denied their second helping of apple pie ala mode ..." It wasn't torture.

The thing about you Jong, is not only are you stupid, ignorant and deluded - you're BORING.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Your response is proof of a right-wing Fascist Bush regime.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Hero:
Wow...your standard of proof is kinda low.

---

Quote:

---

Wow...your standard of proof is kinda low.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Proof of a Left wing dominated media.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

---

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


Your response is proof of a right-wing Fascist Bush regime.

Mike

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Quote:

---

Wow...your standard of proof is kinda low.

---

Actually, I think it's AURaptors standards that are low. ANYTHING that doesn't agree with what he already believes is deemed "left-wing propaganda", no matter where it comes from or who writes it.

Mike

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AURaptor:


right - wing: Believes in lower taxes for citizens. Ok, that works

fascist: The control of industry through private ownership and strict Gov't interference and regulation. Nope. Does not apply

regime:.... the term unavoidably conjures up memories of tanks in the streets in Latin America and Eastern Europe. This is to be regretted, since it has two more technical senses in which it may not easily be replaced. First, when governments come and go with bewildering frequency, as in nineteenth-century Spain or post-1945 Italy, there may still be an absence of fundamental or revolutionary change. In these circumstances it is possible to speak of regime continuity. Alternatively, and more rarely, a change of regime (from constitutional monarchy to tyranny, or from dispersed to centralized government) may be achieved without a change in government, as in the move from parliamentary to personal rule by Charles I of England, or under Margaret Thatcher. Secondly, in international relations the difficulty of accommodating the rise of non-state actors within state-centric realist models of explanation has led to use of the term ‘regime’ to cover norm-bound interactions relating to issues such as the global environment or human rights, in which states, international organizations, transnational corporations, individuals, and worldwide pressure groups like Greenpeace or Amnesty International all take part.

— Charles Jones

Nope. Hardly applies here either.

Oh well.

---

Quote:

---

fascism


Main Entry:
fas·cism
Pronunciation:
\ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
Date:
1921
1often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

Main Entry:
re·gime
Variant(s):
also ré·gime \rā-ˈzhēm, ri- also ri-ˈjēm\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
French régime, from Old French regimen, regime, from Late Latin regimin-, regimen
Date:
1776
1 a: regimen 1 b: a regular pattern of occurrence or action (as of seasonal rainfall) c: the characteristic behavior or orderly procedure of a natural phenomenon or process
2 a: mode of rule or management b: a form of government c: a government in power d: a period of rule


Right (New Right)

: a political movement made up especially of Protestants, opposed especially to secular humanism, and concerned with issues especially of church and state, patriotism, laissez-faire economics, pornography, and abortion

---

Quote:

---

Of course, you're taking the word of folks who'd strap bombs onto themselves and blow up women and children.

---

Quote:

---

AwwCrapper wrote:

Facts ? We don't need no stinkin' facts !

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Quote:

---

AwwCrapper wrote:

Facts ? We don't need no stinkin' facts !

---

Sounds like the Republican Party platform.

Mike

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Probe: Pentagon lawyers sought harsh interrogation
Associated Press
The Pentagon in the aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks pursued abusive interrogation techniques once used by North Korea and Vietnam on American POWs despite stern warnings by several military lawyers that the methods were cruel and even illegal, according to a Senate investigation.

---

Quote:

---

You mean the Democratic Party Platform, what w/ the global warming hoax and what not.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Her proposed methods included extended isolation, 20-hour interrogations, death threats and waterboarding". ie torture

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:
No, I mean the Republican Party platform, what w/ the WMD-and-Saddam-tied-to-Al-Qaeda and whatnot

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Hero:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Her proposed methods included extended isolation, 20-hour interrogations, death threats and waterboarding". ie torture

---

So they wanted them to be lonely, sleepy, scared, and to think they were drowning. Yeah...thats exactly the same as having a thermometer shoved up your rectum and broken, being beaten over and over, drugged, being electrified, actual drowing, mutilated, and yelled at in Vietnamese.

Now me, I think those proposed methods, properly supervised, are just fine. I'd also approve narco-interrogation and forcing them to watch Barney videos at all hours.

H

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
The facts are that the United States has detained or rendered innocent people (as subsequently determined by military lawyers),

---

Quote:

---

held them w/o charges and knowingly tortured (beat, punched, suffocated, waterboarded) them or turned them over for torture to other countries.

---

Quote:

---

In fact, the Administration spent considerable time picking a detention center based on where they thought US law might not apply and threaded their way through several categories of suspected enemy until they found one that they could argue that the Geneva Convention might not apply either.

---

Quote:

---

There is nothing crazy (unfortunately) about recognizing those facts.

---

Quote:

---

With the exception of waterboarding, there is no evidence of use torture methods you suggest. Injuries consistant with physical violence likely resulted from the manner of the person's capture or subsequent resistance

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Hero:
No, there is no evidence that the US knowingly detained innocent persons. The evidence is certain that once a person's innocence was established...they were released.

---

Quote:

---

With the exception of waterboarding, there is no evidence of use torture methods you suggest.

---

Quote:

---

There is no evidence to suggest otherwise...except for the testimony of the alleged victims most of whom remain unnamed and any of whom have no obligation to tell the truth since their statements are not even made under oath.

---

Quote:

---

As for the Supreme Court's decision. The reasoning is suspect and faulty.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
Bull. One high-value Afghan prisoner was suffocated to death in his sleeping bag while being questioned. Another detainee was beaten so severely in the legs and kidneys that he couldn't kneel as directed (knees were too swollen from being repeatedly stomped on and legs were too swollne from being repeatedly kicked) and died of "heart failure" according to our official report. Those came to light because they ended in death.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Hero:
No, there is no evidence that the US knowingly detained innocent persons. The evidence is certain that once a person's innocence was established...they were released.

---

Great, so you admit that INNOCENT people were tortured, and that you're just peachy with that.

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

There is no evidence to suggest otherwise...except for the testimony of the alleged victims most of whom remain unnamed and any of whom have no obligation to tell the truth since their statements are not even made under oath.

---

Oddly, that's exactly the kind of evidence we have from Bush & Cheney in the Plame matter - but you never had a problem believing in THEIR innocence, did you?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Hero:
Names? Evidence? Kinda lacking in both aren't you?

---

Quote:

---

I had no problem believing their innocence. That's because I am a big believer in a person being innocent until proven guilty.

---

Quote:

---

Your poor command of English...

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:
As a f'rinstance, on my BEST day, I'd likely fail the walking a straight line part of the FST, or the standing on one foot part, simply because both of my legs and my back were pretty much destroyed in a motorcycle accident. I can walk and stand, but not very well, and not without pain, and definitely not without wobbling. So I get pulled over, I get out of the car, and I'm basically going to jail for DUI, despite the fact that not only do I not drink and drive - I don't DRINK. Period.

---