Stupid Balkanization and the US Secessionist movement by JaynezTown

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Stupid Balkanization and the US Secessionist movement

POSTED BY: JAYNEZTOWN
UPDATED: Sunday, June 23, 2024 06:58
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Monday, June 30, 2008 12:05 PM

I'm all for more Independants, after all I'm a Browncoat but lately on the web I see its being pushed too far.

I'm all for more local power, governance at local levels and local issues and having the government less in control of your life with more laws, more wire tapping, more taxes etc. However I feel some of these Independence stuff is either being pushed too far or pushed in the wrong direction.

Take the Balkanization of Europe, milosevic was a scumbag and a dictator but does his stupidity give us all an excuse to break up people. In parts of Holland etc Muslims don't want anything to do with traditional European or Christian customs and there were anrgy protests.
The Serbs had a long history in the region long before the Albanians came a long and now we seek to break up the people. Ethically segregating one community away from another, it will happen in Iraq and Trukey to as the Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds all want their own region divided and sliced on the base of religion and race. It's happening all over Africa too as people descended from one tribe attack another ethnic group

I'm all for more local power on issues like local projects, local jobs, local environmental stuff etc This is why I support independence from big government.
But breaking up a place on the basis of religion and race is a formula for disaster.

There are idiot Secessionists in the USA, for example Christian Southerners who want to break away from the United States of America because they don't like the governments policy on abortion, or patriotic Americans want to break away from Liberals because of their "chicken antiwar principles", legalize Unisex Marriage etc Then radical Liberals in California, NewYork etc who don't want to be part of country in a union with the South anymore. What is the North or East/West coast broke away, what if the South succeeded ?? - it would be a disaster !! In a break up of the USA who the military'd side with? How will the security South survive without its military bases in liberal states like Los Angeles AFB, McGuire AFB, Fort Hamilton etc and how would the North survive without the farming areas and resources of the Southern States? Without Northern investment from economic and financial capitals like NYC the Southern states would shut down a lot of their farms. These Secessionists groups are selling us a stupid idea, they will only sub-divide the American population to pit one sub-group against another

What amazes me is that there are groups which advocate such behavior and their movement is growing each year.

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Monday, June 30, 2008 11:55 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Frankly, it would not at all break my heart to see some of these assholes break loose into their own collectives and then annihilate each other with conventional weapons trying to force their agendas on each other.

I'd be damn happy to see them dead, and even happier to not have their agendas forced upon me by their fucking lobbyists buying off our Government.

Consider how one group of them attempting to enforce their morality upon the rest of us created prohibition, which lead to the rise of organized crime, UnConstitutional Federal Policing, and eventually to the "War on (some) Drugs", which has contributed overall not a goddamn thing to our country or society but misery, violence and chaos.

I say if they can buy enough land to live on, and get the unanimous consent of all that live on it to do so, fine by me and good riddance!

All I really want is to be left ALONE without some shitheads agenda, promogulated through this Government and it's UnConstitutional enforcers, being pushed upon me at every goddamn turn and corner, every moment, of my life.

So yeah, I'd be glad to see the back of em, and even happier to see em pushin up daisies when they try forcing that shit on each OTHER.

If I wanna back MY car into MY own freakin driveway to unload the trunk easier, that's MY goddamn business innit ?

If I wanna rip the CD's *I* purchased to MP3 and play them on MY MP3 player to listen to while mowing the lawn, that's MY damn business, innit ?

I am sick to death of other peoples petty little bullshit and meaningless (to me) agendas being pushed into my life because this Government allows it to happen, and I suspect I ain't the only one.

So if they wanna take that shit somewhere else and leave us folk who understand the MYOB principle alone for freakin once, then damn right, I'm all for it.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, July 1, 2008 3:31 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

While I don't agree with the reasons stated as a basis for secession, I do agree with the principle of it.

If the government is no longer governing according to the Constituiton, if we are crushed down with illegal taxes, if our rights are trampled upon...then the only options left (beyond a COMPLETE changing of government) are civil war or a non-violent secession.

We fought Britain because they tried to tax our income and our goods, we fought Germany to prevent "politically-correct thought" and National-Socialism, we fought Russia to prevent Communism...and here we are now......

We have an income tax to pay for Socialist/Communistic programs, and PC curbs our voices from speaking the truth.

I say to hell with it. Either things change so that we are back in line with the Constituion.... or we fight.

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Tuesday, July 1, 2008 8:22 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:

We have an income tax to pay for Socialist/Communistic programs, and PC curbs our voices from speaking the truth.

I had no idea you thought defense spending was a socialist/communist program!

After all, the vast majority of your tax dollars go to the Pentagon. And you forgot to mention the TRILLIONS of dollars that are being thrown down that drain we call Iraq. Of course, the "PC" Republicans don't want anyone talking about that particular quagmire, and have deemed such questioning "unpatriotic" - talk about "PC"...

I'm with ya on the fight part, though - this is a perfect time for it, since all of our available military units are out of the country now and for the foreseeable future. Should be quite easy to knock over the status quo. ;)

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Tuesday, July 1, 2008 10:18 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

I wonder if anyone else is thinking the same damn thing... ;)

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Thursday, July 3, 2008 9:43 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Interesting point.

People now have such a narrow definition of "themselves" they can't see any commonality between themselves and others. So whatever system is set up just HAS to meet their specific, individual agendas in every detail, or they're going to throw a hissy-fit.

Yes, government should be accountable. But on the other hand, people need to suck it up a little bit and stop being such whiny biatches.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Thursday, July 3, 2008 9:51 AM

KHYRON

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Yes, government should be accountable. But on the other hand, people need to suck it up a little bit and stop being such whiny biatches.

Couldn't agree more.

------------------------------

This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.

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Thursday, July 3, 2008 4:20 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Hey, gimme my fuckin tax money back and you won't have to hear me bitch.

But as long my hard earned cash is taken from me under threat of violence, via force of arms, to finance pushing not only agendas I don't agree with, and those the Gov has no damn business in, but also black bag shit that we, the so-called-rulers of this pathetic little junta, are not only not allowed to vote on, but not even allowed to know about...

http://www.csbaonline.org/4Publications/PubLibrary/U.20070725.Classifi
ed_Funding/U.20070725.Classified_Funding.pdf

Yeah, that sure is representative government, innit... representative of a fucking pissant third world junta!

Gimme back the money that the dickheads you have so much faith in have extorted from me under threat of violence, and you don't have to hear me bitch, eh ?

-F

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Thursday, July 3, 2008 7:43 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Gimme back the money that the dickheads you have so much faith in have extorted from me under threat of violence, and you don't have to hear me bitch, eh ?

Like I said, it seems that people can't find any commonality anymore, and all programs have to suit their agendas to a "T" or they throw a tantrum.

YOUR problem Frem... think of it as a "challenge" if you will... is to convince enough people that your ways make sense. If you manage to convince enough people, you can swing the ship of state around. If not.... well then, you'll just have to keep chipping away at it.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Friday, July 4, 2008 2:55 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

What's wrong with people wanting to be around people who are like them? It's gotten to the point where half the time you're afraid of saying anything because you're afraid of who you'll offend.

I don't want Government segregating people, but if people want to distance themselves from each other and don't start firebombing each other I don't see any problem with it. Maybe there is a reason other than lesser mobility that for centuries people mainly affiliated with their own people. I'm all for tolerance and being good natured to your fellow man, but if I'm not hurting anyone then it's nobody's business who I choose to affiliate myself with.

That's freedom, ain't it?

Actually, it's the Government using my tax dollars to forcefully integrate everybody together that I have a problem with.... but that's another topic, deserving of its own thread, and one that I don't really care much to get into today.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Friday, July 4, 2008 3:57 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Believe me Siggy, you've nailed the issue in spades, and trying to convince folk who've been indoctrinated all their lives to think and believe in a certain way ain't easy...

But it can be done.

I picked up the torch from others in my youth of convincing folk that no, those *weren't* just stories, and yes, abuse *was* rife in the catholic church - that torch had been carried many years before me by former victims and folks who saw what was going on, and they carried it as far as they could before age or mortality made them unable, and then handed it off to the next generation to carry in their turn.

Now, if you called out the catholic church on this crap even 10-15 years ago, you'd get called a loon, a conspiracy nut, etc - but I don't see it being disputed now.

That was one of the things that firmly convinced me that "impossible" is not a word to apply to these things, and the torch of socially, mentally, and emotionally evolving ourselves past the NEED for an all-encompassing, invasive parent-government isn't one I expect to go the distance in my own lifetime, although it would be nice to see more progress.

But I do intend to hand off something to the next generation besides the future of our failures, and if the hope embodied in that torch is all I got left to give, then so be it - in respect to the one handed to me in my youth by folks who'd carried it through the dark days when getting THAT issue brought to light seemed impossible.

If I can't give our next generation victory, at least I can hand them hope, yes ?

As for the rest, I don't wanna force my manner of lifestyle or belief on anyone else, and the idea of robbing them of hard earned cash to finance that kind abuse to them is anethma to all I believe, so you can see where I'd be pretty angry to have such directed at me 24-7-365.

If what I think and do brings no harm to any other being, if it has no effect whatever upon them, then why the hell should such a thing matter to someone else ?

And yet it does, cause it doesn't fit THEIR little pre-conceived notions of how I should life my life, and thus they feel the need to interfere.

"We meddle, We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right."
-River Tam

-F

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Friday, July 4, 2008 6:00 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
What's wrong with people wanting to be around people who are like them?

Nothing. I think it's called "freedom of association". You might have heard of it, perhaps?

But that's not what secession is about. Secession mean replacing one government with another. One set of laws with another. One set of funding with another. Creating your own little mini-nation within a nation.

Quote:
It's gotten to the point where half the time you're afraid of saying anything because you're afraid of who you'll offend.

Maybe you should lose some of those offensive ideas, no? It's not bad to rummage thru your mental attic once in a while and figure out if anything should be discarded. One of the BEST ways to discover yourself... find out who you "really" are... is to get out, experience new and different things, talk to people you've never talked to before, see places never seen before. Once you've discovered your boundaries, nothing in life says you have the right to remain smack in the middle of your comfort zone until you die.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Friday, July 4, 2008 6:10 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Believe me Siggy, you've nailed the issue in spades, and trying to convince folk who've been indoctrinated all their lives to think and believe in a certain way ain't easy... But it can be done.

Huh. We actually agree on something.

Nice to hear that message of hope from someone in the trenches. Thanks Frem.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Friday, July 4, 2008 1:31 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Siggy, I may be a hardheaded stubborn jackass of the worst order, sure, but the beauty of the thing is that what I wish to accomplish harms no one save the predatory elements so destructive to mankind as a whole.

The long view is outgrowing and doing away with such Governments, but the short view of it is very simply removing ridiculous excesses and abuses like the telephone line tax, for example, crap that NO ONE but those directly benefitting is actually in favor of.

http://news.cnet.com/Senators-want-to-nix-1898-telecom-tax/2100-1036_3
-5769948.html

But one of the major problems, as you're so good at pointing out, is that all common mainstream media is snuggled right up to the status quo and beating their drums all day long, along with a public education system heavy on indoctrination to both that and corporate agendas as well.
(Did you see the proposal to put corporate ads in school bathrooms ? that was nuts!)

Our primary vehicle at this time is of course the internet, the one source of free information that the status quo and those supporting it are so desperate to strangle, but not only do I not think they'll ever get enough support to really try - I am not sure it's even possible, given the mental nature and philosophy of most technologically oriented folk.

That's why hackers usually beat out Gov and Corpies, cause by their very nature and structure, the only techies they can get to work directly in opposition to the principles of free information are the rejects.

Would that all our opposition was that damn stupid, ehe ?

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Thursday, May 23, 2024 6:20 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

they feel like they are held captive

Organizers of Measure 7-86, also known as the "Greater Idaho Measure," say the decision to secede is because of the state's progressive policies and high crime rates. They allege they have been alienated in Oregon and that moving to Idaho would enable citizens to benefit from reduced taxes as well as improved governance and representation.

https://thepostmillennial.com/13th-oregon-county-votes-to-secede-and-j
oin-idaho

and other controversial events

A lookback on Ruby Ridge

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Sunday, June 23, 2024 6:58 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

Texas Secessionists Working With Five Other States, Leader Says
https://www.newsweek.com/texas-secessionists-working-five-other-states
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https://www.axios.com/2024/06/19/americans-resilience-fragile-society-
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https://www.politico.eu/article/serbia-threatens-quit-euro-cup-2024-ov
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Albanian and Croatian fans chanted “Kill, kill, kill the Serb" during a match between their two countries in Hamburg

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Post British Labour Party, then a mix of Conservative Liberal Democrat, followed by Conservative

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... post-Brexit policies

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cgeekd4nzvkt?page=2

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https://www.itv.com/news/2024-06-13/what-is-plaid-cymru-pledging-for-w
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Plaid Cymru a centre-left to left-wing, Welsh nationalist political party in Wales, committed to Welsh independence

'Lord' Cameron

Cameron denies suggesting Brexit to blame for no asylum returns deal with France
https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/national/24277091.cameron-d
enies-suggesting-brexit-blame-no-asylum-returns-deal-france/

Steve Bannon must surrender to prison
https://apnews.com/article/steve-bannon-contempt-jan-6-committee-priso
n-2da50bcf2f8ff8f3e01ef4bf2b1b845e

Americans sick of the 'cultural revolution' under Joe Biden
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13534853/Utah-survivalist-OCR
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U.S. faces "serious threat" of terror attack, expert and former CIA chief warn
https://www.axios.com/2024/06/17/us-terrorist-attack-morell-allison

Divided states of America: From Oregon to Louisiana, campaigns for secession are taking place at local and state levels - and some are succeeding
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13452561/Divided-states-Ameri
ca-Oregon-Louisiana-campaigns-secession-taking-place-local-state-levels-succeeding.html
In an increasingly divided United States of America, a radical solution to resolve fraught political differences is gaining momentum: secession.

Map Shows States Most Likely to Secede
https://www.newsweek.com/map-shows-states-most-likely-secede-1870679

Texas Nationalist Movement Alaska is also a strong political movement, California and TEXIT Questions

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