Some crooks now using Tasers, as predicted. by Fremdfirma

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Some crooks now using Tasers, as predicted.

POSTED BY: FREMDFIRMA
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 20:40
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Monday, July 28, 2008 3:34 PM

Toldja that was comin, didn't I ?
There's been quite a few of these recently.

URL - http://news-press.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080718/NEWS0110/807
18060

July 18, 2008

Three teens charged with using Taser in Fort Myers robbery

news-press.com

Three teenagers were arrested Thursday night after police say they used a stun gun to rob another teenager of $18 and his Nike Air Force Ones.

A 15-year-old told Lee County sheriff’s deputies that he had been robbed around 8:30 p.m. at the Shell gas station at 11225 S. Cleveland Ave. in Fort Myers.

The victim told deputies that he and his friend had been approached by two teenagers, one of whom pushed a Taser into his stomach and told him to empty his pockets. The two teenagers as well as the victim’s friend then got into a black Jeep and drove away.

Deputies located the black Jeep in a driveway of a home and after searching the home found the Nike shoes that had been stolen. The Taser was found in a compartment in the Jeep’s door.

The three teenagers were charged with robbery with a weapon. One of them is identified as Austin Lee Spencer, 17. The other two are not being identified because of their age.

=====================================

And while we're at it, let's mention our latest hits on how our oh so upstanding officers of the law behave with the damn things.

Gee, let's torture my wife..
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail? contentId=6926114&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1

Hmm, but he's NEVER done that to a suspect, right ?... right ?
And it's funny how they never mention the BURNS when they say it's "harmless".
Or when they do it to a suspect.

Zap, giggle, zap, giggle, zap zap zap..
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/22/taser.death/index.html

Were it not for that chip, this would be just one more case of "excited delirium", wouldn't it now ?
ALL Tasers should have that chip, and it should be heavily tamperproofed, AND it's readout should be immediately available to both defense counsel and next of kin - that right there would stop a LOT of this crap.

Zaaaaaaaaap, sizzle...
http://www.wcnc.com/news/topstories/stories/wcnc-071608-mw-officersusp
ended.603fdb5b.html

Perhaps one could explain to me two things.

A - WHY Tasers do not have an automatic cutoff to prevent this sort of sustained electrocution ?
(not that it stops the thugs in blue from yanking the trigger over and over, but at least it's something)

B - What REASON other than an outright attempt to kill someone could you possibly HAVE for Tasering someone more than 30 seconds?

Dawson won't face criminal charges in the case

Yeah, that sure sends a message.

So does my shielded jacket.

Had dinner with my lawyer and his family this weekend, and it came up in discussion - given the potential lethality of the devices now, since they can deliver either multiple shocks over and over, or be held in place and fry you like a hamburger patty, it can no longer be legally considered a "non-lethal" weapon and thus this changes the legal issues partaining to the fire/no fire decision making process of a CCW permit holder.

Basically, from a legal standpoint if someone, anyone, points a Taser at you outside of a Law Enforcement Officer with a fully justified claim that his life or the lives of innocents were in danger - (i.e. "Respect Mah Athori-TAY!" is NOT a good enough reason) then you have both legal right and cause to shoot them dead on the spot.

I seriously do not like the implications of that, it's almost like the courts have begun to *presume* intended abuse, and in that case officers should NOT have them.

Remember what I said about trying to stuff genies back in the bottle...

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, July 29, 2008 2:08 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
B - What REASON other than an outright attempt to kill someone could you possibly HAVE for Tasering someone more than 30 seconds?

According to the video, after the officer shot the kid with the taser the kid continued to walk around for at least several seconds with no apparent effect. Seems reasonable that if your taser doesn't seem to be affecting someone, you'd keep the power on until it does. As usual with videos, they didn't show the whole thing, so you got no idea at what point in the 37 seconds the kid finally went down. Just sayin'.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, July 29, 2008 3:16 PM

FREMDFIRMA

I dunno Geeze, being a thinking individual, if I try somethin and it obviously ain't workin, mostly my response would be something other than more of the same.

I really suspect the officer let his ego and temper get the better of him and decided to apply some street justice.

Also, it's almost as if they ain't even taught the concept of de-escalation, much less the principles of it... many incidents are actually escalated by the police officers presence and behavior that should never have gotten to that point.

Procedurally, IF the Taser does NOT work, instead of going all mental-lockup cause of piss poor training, THEN you go up to pepper spray, and so on, a simple IF/THEN statement a computer with 4k of RAM can handle...

And if the use of pepper spray is a damn bad idea (being indoors it might have been) then you CONTAIN the suspect by preventing his exit and calling for backup.

For cryin out loud Geeze, if a crook like me knows the drill enough to point out his fuckups, that's pretty damn bad, innit ?

-F

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Tuesday, July 29, 2008 3:47 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:

Also, it's almost as if they ain't even taught the concept of de-escalation, much less the principles of it... many incidents are actually escalated by the police officers presence and behavior that should never have gotten to that point.

It feels more and more like you're right on that - Cops seem to think that in ANY situation, the Taser is the best idea. They think that since it's supposed to be non-lethal, it automatically becomes the first line of defense, and the first thing they try. Instead of trying to defuse a situation by simply talking to the subject, too many officers now go straight to an offensive mode. Zap first, ask questions later - if the subject is still alive, that is.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Tuesday, July 29, 2008 8:13 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

On the topic of criminals using tasers...

That's hardly a logic leap or a revelation.

Like all human beings who feel the need to attack other human beings, criminals make use of every available weapon devised by man.

If we invent the plasma pistol tomorrow, criminals will be using it by the end of the decade... just like the rest of us.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, July 29, 2008 8:40 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Anthony, that is true, but the reason I predicted crooks would eventually decide to use Tasers is more of a legal issue.

See, it's not (technically) by law a "deadly" weapon, since to admit that it is would blow a big hole in the police asserting that it's "perfectly safe" see ?

So by using it, a criminal can both argue that he was not in possession of a deadly weapon, AND that he did no harm to the victim cause they are "perfectly safe" - thus reducing potential charges against them.

I am definately going to watch these cases closely and see if the courts make the damned fool mistake of considering it "deadly" in the hands of a criminal and "safe" in the hands of a cop - cause we'll ram that one down some throats right real quick, we will.

My other concern is rapists using them to disable their targets, before they were mostly outlawed, those cattleprod type stunguns were actually finding almost as much use with the perps as the potential victims, which is why the blue windbreakers (taser proof*) project came out of mothballs and was completed.

Most crooks are stupid and shortsighted, and will stick with guns, sure - but these incidents may well lead to an honest and accurate assessment of a Tasers actual lethality versus perceived lethality due to deliberate ad campaigns by the manufacturer.

Which has been a concern for a while now.

-Frem
* - They work, but for legal reasons which'll come clear in time, imma refrain from sayin how cause I don't want any heat to come down on our board here.

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