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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Clinton started more wars then Bush.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
MoveOn.org completely refutes the idea that the Left doesn't have wealth enough to be influential.

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But not influential enough to stop unnecessary wars, I guess.
Dude, the way I see it, things like MoveOn just bring the overall balance back to the center

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
......look at the whole demonizing of Iraq- NO "left" mainstream media challenge then, just yeah baby, he needs to be stopped (from, y'know, something)!!!!
Stop staring a the individual trees for a moment Finn, and look where we are. It's been Rightyville for a long time now.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Clinton started more wars then Bush.

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The numbers of wars goes to Clinton...
But.
Who wins for the most peeps killed.....???

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James was echoing a common distortion of U.S. military death figures by conservative pundits who misleadingly have compared combat deaths under the Bush administration to all military deaths -- combat and noncombat -- under the Clinton administration.

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Summary of the eRumor:
The forwarded email lists year-by-year statistics of military deaths from 1980 through 2006 and concludes that there were more deaths during the years of the presidency of Bill Clinton, when there was no war, than during the years of George W. Bush when there was war in Iraq and conflict in Afghanistan.

The Truth:
Whoever assembled this eRumor claimed that it was based on statistics from the U.S. Government, but the figures in the eRumor do not match the figures in the actual government report it references.
The eRumor includes a link to the report, which was dated June 29, 2007, and prepared by the Congressional Research Service. It is titled American War and Military Operations Casualties: Lists and Statistics.

Whoever created this forwarded email exaggerated the death statistics from the Clinton years and reduced the actual numbers from the Bush years. The eRumor, for example. claims that there were more than 14,000 deaths during the Clinton presidency and a little more than 7,000 deaths during the presidency of George W. Bush. In reality the opposite is true. There were 7500 military deaths during the Clinton years and as of the date of the report, 8792 deaths during the Bush presidency.

Here is a comparison of what the email claims compared with with the government report actually says:

The doctored data were from the Clinton and George W. Bush years so that is the focus of this comparison. The discrepancies are in red:
Year eRumor
Figures Actual
Figures Presidency
1993 1213 1213 Clinton
1994 1075 1075 Clinton
1995 2465 1040 Clinton
1996 2318 974 Clinton
1997 817 817 Clinton
1998 2252 827 Clinton
1999 1984 796 Clinton
2000 1983 758 Clinton
Totals: 14107 7500
2001 890 891 George W. Bush
2002 1007 999 George W. Bush
2003 1410 1228 George W. Bush
2004 1887 1874 George W. Bush
2005 919 1942 George W. Bush
2006 920 1858 George W. Bush
Totals: 7033 8792

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Originally posted by Siri:
I'm not sure that I really want to respond to this thread or not. It caught my attention in a disturbing sort of way. I thought that it was one of those leader type things to garner attention. When I read through the responses, it made me sadder and sadder. While I love Firefly and the Firefly fans overall and at first found meandering through the threads stimulating, more and more it just makes me sad. It seems that we are so attracted to these horrible incidents, the very worst in our human nature, like the proverbial moth to the flame. I think perhaps it is killing us. The bombardments and hateful diatribes, no matter if it's so called right or left are disgusting and appear to bring out the worst in us. It seems to me that there are so many, many things on which we could and should be focussing our attention, our passion, our thoughts and our marvenlous, brilliant ingenuity, for the life of me, I can't figure out why we choose to wallow in this type of muck.

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
(Not including folk who simply want the State to commit violence on their behalf, those are National Socialists, look it up to see what I mean by that.)

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The meaning of symbols changes over time, look at the Swastika, originally a native american symbol for good fortune, and many years later due to it's association with National Socialism, seen as a symbol of pure evil.

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Originally posted by Siri:
I probably won't wander back here for some time, not because I think I'm any better than anyone else, but because I just get too depressed when I read these kinds of threads.Siri

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The irony is that the original term, National Socialism, applies far better to the current crop than it did historically.

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Moments before the Democratic headquarters shooting, a man with a gun had threatened an employee at that Arkansas State Baptist Convention headquarters seven blocks east, an official there said.

Dan Jordan, the Baptist group's business manager, said a man pointed a gun at another official there, and when asked what was wrong, the man said, "I lost my job." Jordan said he didn't know if it was the same suspect.

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Sources say they are working to confirm tentative information that the suspect was a former employee of a Gwatney car dealership.

Gwatney, a former state senator, was an executive in a car dealership group, a business in which employment changes are not uncommon. Rumors immediately arose that the shooter might have been a disgruntled former employee of a Gwatney dealership. There were layoffs at a Gwatney dealership this week, according to employees.

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