REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

'The Energy Journal' refuses to publish pro drilling report .

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 08:42
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2310
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Thursday, August 7, 2008 10:55 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Why ? Simple...It's so well known that just PLANNING to drill for oil would drop prices - TODAY, a concept which economist have known for at LEAST 40 years, if not 70 years!!


Quote:

INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION FOR ENERGY ECONOMICS IA
THE ENERGY JOURNAL EE
June 2, 2008
Our File: 08-047
R. Morris Coats
Nicholls State University
Thibodaux
Louisiana 70310
USA
Dear Professor Coats,
Subject: Editor's decision from The Energy Journal
Submission titled "The Effect of Opening up ANWR to Drilling on the Current Price of
Oil."
Thank you for your recent submission (with Gary Pecquet), “The Effect of Opening up
ANWR to Drilling on the Current Price of Oil.” I have received two reviews, which are
attached for your perusal.
Although the referees, and I, are in agreement with your basic argument, I regret to say
that we will not be able to publish this work. Basically, your main result (the present
impact of an anticipated future supply change) is already known to economists (although
perhaps not to the Democratic Policy Committee). If Hotelling didn’t exactly spell this
out in his original article, certainly Herfindahl and others had done so by the 1960s. It is
our policy to publish only original research that adds significantly to the body of received
knowledge regarding energy markets and policy.

Because your argument is on point, although not highly original, you might attempt a
shorter version (without the mathematics) for submission to a more policy oriented
journal, or perhaps one of the major op-ed pages (e.g., The Wall Street Journal).
Although I regret the outcome was not more favorable on this occasion, please keep us in
mind for your future work.
Sincerely yours,
Professor James Smith
Editor, The Energy Journal
http:/www.iaee.org/en/publications/journal.aspx
Dr. James L. Smith
Cary M. Maguire Chair in Oil and Gas Management
Edwin L. Cox School of Business
Southern Methodist University
Dallas, TX 75275
Enc.



The Democratic leadership is LYING to the American public for one reason - to keep a grip on the balance of power they enjoy in Washington D.C., and for no other reason. It's not to " save the planet " as Kooky Speaker Nancy says, but to keep any possible positive bump the GOP would get once everyone saw how right their plan was for America.





It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, August 7, 2008 11:30 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Why ? Simple...It's so well known that just PLANNING to drill for oil would drop prices - TODAY, a concept which economist have known for at LEAST 40 years, if not 70 years!!

Nice try AU, but this formerly common misconception has been de-bunked again & again and is only used as anti-left propaganda by desperate types like yourself as a last ditch effort to take cred from whatever Dems that's possible- I'm so sick to gorram death of you world-hating pro-1984 chickenhawks spouting your brainwashed filth!!!! I mean, sick, Sick, SICK to DEATH!!! And STOP saying disparaging things about Obama, he's 20 times the man you could ever be, honest and unflinching, a true American hero!!! I'm so Mad right now that you ever even insinuated that he's less than our Earthly saviour I could SPIT!!!!

...not that I...spit...

There, how do you like it, AU ?A balls-out emotional over-reaction with no facts or links at all to back it up? Just calling you brainwashed & getting pissy over what I supposedly feel ain't got a lick of truth to it?

Take THAT, Captain Ridiculous!!



Gloves off Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 7, 2008 11:38 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


So, you agree that drilling in ANWR would reduce the price of oil, and that the GOP is right in demanding House Leader Pelosi call Congress back for an up or down vote?

Great!



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, August 7, 2008 11:40 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Hrmmm... I didn't even realize The Energy Journal was published by the Democratic National Committee.

So, 'Rap, you're saying that health insurance rates must necessarily go down, and should have been doing so for the past several years, because Congress is talking about addressing universal health care? Is that what you're saying? If talking about it makes the price go down, then let's talk about steak and beer! :)



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Thursday, August 7, 2008 11:46 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


So, you agree that drilling in ANWR would reduce the price of oil, and that the GOP is right in demanding House Leader Pelosi call Congress back for an up or down vote?




No, and no.

First off, there's no solid confirmation that there's actually any oil IN the ANWR. And drilling ANYWHERE - according to the Bush Administration - isn't going to lower gas prices here for at least ten years, and even then only by 3 or 4 cents.

So, you agree that keeping your tires properly inflated would have more of an impact TODAY than drilling?

Second, Pelosi doesn't have the power to "call Congress back", any more than Dickless Cheney does - he's the president of the Senate, remember? Pelosi has no jurisdiction over the Senate in any way, shape, or form, but thanks for trying your idiot best to make her the bad guy.

If you want Congress back in session, contact your beloved President. It is he who must call a special session of Congress, and he's said he won't. So he sure as hell don't give a rat's ass about gas prices.

Also, *IF* Congress came back, you can bet your bottom dollar that McCain wouldn't show up to vote. It's important to him, but it's not THAT important.



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Thursday, August 7, 2008 11:49 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


The Democratic leadership is LYING to the American public for one reason - to keep a grip on the balance of power they enjoy in Washington D.C., and for no other reason. It's not to " save the planet " as Kooky Speaker Nancy says, but to keep any possible positive bump the GOP would get once everyone saw how right their plan was for America.




The Republican losership is LYING to the American public for one reason - to keep a grip on their balance of wealth they enjoy in the world, and for no other reason. It's not "to lower gas prices" as Kooky Aucrapper says, but to keep any possible positive bump that would result from any REAL research into alternative energy sources.



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Thursday, August 7, 2008 11:55 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

If talking about it makes the price go down, then let's talk about steak and beer! :)




ROTFLMAO!!!!

Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 7, 2008 12:06 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:


So, 'Rap, you're saying that health insurance rates must necessarily go down, and should have been doing so for the past several years, because Congress is talking about addressing universal health care? Is that what you're saying? If talking about it makes the price go down, then let's talk about steak and beer! :)

Mike




Sorry, but your analogy between healthcare and oil is sadly left wanting. Gov't control of healthcare would limit the supply, driving cost up. Free market sales of more oil would have the opposite effect, and drive prices down. Economist have known this since the 1930's.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, August 7, 2008 12:16 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

The Republican losership is LYING to the American public for one reason - to keep a grip on their balance of wealth they enjoy in the world, and for no other reason. It's not "to lower gas prices" as Kooky Aucrapper says, but to keep any possible positive bump that would result from any REAL research into alternative energy sources.

Mike




The GOP isn't lying
It isn't in power in the 1st place, so it can't keep power it does not have. The Dems are in power.
Who are the OIL companies keeping from researching new or alternative sources of energy ? NO ONE, that's who.

You simply can't deal w/ the facts, that a peer reviewed journal flatly admits that planning to drill for oil will ALWAYS result in lowering the price of gas in the now. It's a moot point, and to try to say anything to the contrary is either door knob stupid or blatent lying.

Pick one.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, August 7, 2008 12:28 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
It's a moot point, and to try to say anything to the contrary is either door knob stupid or blatent lying.

Pick one.


Yes, it IS a moot point- whenever someone says something they've been paid to say it's inherently suspect. Call it door knob lying.
(I support drilling IN CERTAIN AREAS, by the way...)

*Here comes the "No one paid them to blah blah blah"*

Make a wish to the Tooth Fairy for me, eh pal?

No time for Disney friends Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 7, 2008 12:32 PM

WHODIED


From the Energy Information Administration:

(emphasis added)
The projections in the OCS access case indicate that access to the Pacific, Atlantic, and eastern Gulf regions would not have a significant impact on domestic crude oil and natural gas production or prices before 2030. Leasing would begin no sooner than 2012, and production would not be expected to start before 2017. Total domestic production of crude oil from 2012 through 2030 in the OCS access case is projected to be 1.6 percent higher than in the reference case, and 3 percent higher in 2030 alone, at 5.6 million barrels per day. For the lower 48 OCS, annual crude oil production in 2030 is projected to be 7 percent higher—2.4 million barrels per day in the OCS access case compared with 2.2 million barrels per day in the reference case (Figure 20). Because oil prices are determined on the international market, however, any impact on average wellhead prices is expected to be insignificant.



http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/ongr.html


Subtracting four years to denote immediate drilling doesn't seem to change much.



--WhoDied


_______________________

All those secrets you've been concealing
Say you're happy now...



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Thursday, August 7, 2008 12:35 PM

CHRISISALL


See, and I don't agree with this based on politics or anything- IT JUST MAKES SENSE!!!

Dancing Demon Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 7, 2008 12:56 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
It's a moot point, and to try to say anything to the contrary is either door knob stupid or blatent lying.

Pick one.


Yes, it IS a moot point- whenever someone says something they've been paid to say it's inherently suspect. Call it door knob lying.
(I support drilling IN CERTAIN AREAS, by the way...)

*Here comes the "No one paid them to blah blah blah"*

Make a wish to the Tooth Fairy for me, eh pal?





THEY DENIED THE REPORT!! How the hell can you say they were PAID for that answer ? It was a REJECTION LETTER, you moron!

" They were paid off " is the standard retort from the hyper extreme far Left wing. Guess what...THEY WEREN'T PAID OFF ! Think of another one, pin head.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, August 7, 2008 1:11 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
THEY DENIED THE REPORT!! How the hell can you say they were PAID for that answer ? It was a REJECTION LETTER, you moron!



Quote:

It is
our policy to publish only original research that adds significantly to the body of received
knowledge regarding energy markets and policy.



Ah - so since he didn't offer any original research or any new ideas, that proves that the left is responsible for it not being published...

I don't see where they "DENIED THE REPORT!!" What I do see is that they agreed with the basic points of the submitted research, but found it not original, and with nothing new or substantive to offer. But if it's your contention that that rejection proves a left-wing bias, then have at it. After all, in 'RappoWorld, EVERYTHING is a left-wing conspiracy.

It certainly seems as though you're making the connection that not publishing that report implies some sort of Democratic collusion...





Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Thursday, August 7, 2008 1:16 PM

WHODIED


Looks to me like they said:

Blah, blah, democrats don't get it, blah, blah, we still aren't going to published your re-hashed old news...

--WhoDied


_______________________

All those secrets you've been concealing
Say you're happy now...



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Thursday, August 7, 2008 1:20 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
\
Ah - so since he didn't offer any original research or any new ideas, that proves that the left is responsible for it not being published...

I don't see where they "DENIED THE REPORT!!" What I do see is that they agreed with the basic points of the submitted research, but found it not original, and with nothing new or substantive to offer. But if it's your contention that that rejection proves a left-wing bias, then have at it. After all, in 'RappoWorld, EVERYTHING is a left-wing conspiracy.

It certainly seems as though you're making the connection that not publishing that report implies some sort of Democratic collusion...

Mike




My GOD, you're black hole dense! They DENIED THE REPORT FOR PUBLISHING in their journal ! Even though they AGREED w/ the findings, ( and here's the BIG POINT YOU MISSED ) there was nothing NEW in the offered report which was worthy of putting in their journal! It would be a kin to National Geographic rejecting a report which concluded the Earth was ..... ( wait for it )....ROUND !

Umm...not exactly shattering news there, Skippy. What you're not GETTING is that there WAS no 'Left wing' bias this time... the study found nothing new! But it was EXACTLY what the GOP has been saying all along about new sources of oil and us drilling on OUR own land.

I'm good at drawing pictures, but apparently not so good that I could draw one that even YOU could understand this simple point. The JOURNAL is essentially saying " Oh, sure, drilling will cause a drop in oil prices. Everyone knows that, we've known that for decades!!! Your findings, while accurate, are nothing new. Thanks anyways. " .





It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, August 7, 2008 1:20 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

The GOP isn't lying



Of course they are. Their lips are moving.




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Thursday, August 7, 2008 1:24 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by WhoDied:
From the Energy Information Administration:

(emphasis added)
The projections in the OCS access case indicate that access to the Pacific, Atlantic, and eastern Gulf regions would not have a significant impact on domestic crude oil and natural gas production or prices before 2030. Leasing would begin no sooner than 2012, and production would not be expected to start before 2017. Total domestic production of crude oil from 2012 through 2030 in the OCS access case is projected to be 1.6 percent higher than in the reference case, and 3 percent higher in 2030 alone, at 5.6 million barrels per day. For the lower 48 OCS, annual crude oil production in 2030 is projected to be 7 percent higher—2.4 million barrels per day in the OCS access case compared with 2.2 million barrels per day in the reference case (Figure 20). Because oil prices are determined on the international market, however, any impact on average wellhead prices is expected to be insignificant.



http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/ongr.html


Subtracting four years to denote immediate drilling doesn't seem to change much.



--WhoDied


_______________________

All those secrets you've been concealing
Say you're happy now...





Yeah, but according to AwwCrappy, those people are all black-hole dense. I mean, what the hell do energy experts know about energy? Rappy's got it all figured out. His is the only opinion he's interested in, and the only one he'll listen to.



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Thursday, August 7, 2008 1:24 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

The GOP isn't lying



Of course they are. Their lips are moving.

Mike



Nunt uh! That's how you tell Democrats are lying! THEIR lips are moving, not the Republicans.

I'm rubber, you're glue.......



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, August 7, 2008 1:27 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by WhoDied:

--WhoDied


_______________________

All those secrets you've been concealing
Say you're happy now...





You're missing the point or, you're space monkey stupid. Regardless, I approve of your sig.

SweetRaptor



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, August 7, 2008 1:37 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Think of another one, pin head.


Okay, I will, DIPSTICK!
How about- they submitted the report so it would be rejected so step-n'-fetch GOPers like you could cry about trying to suppress so-called truth?

#3:
We have the Global Warming, anti-war & Blackwater conspiracy theorists drugged and in operation, sir. Soon the whole world will believe our leftist lies and SPECTRE can step in with it's Liberal takeover.

Blofeld:
Yes... MUHUHUHAHAHA
All is going according to our plan...has the explosive chip been placed in our agent's cranium?

#8:
Yes, Obama has been fully prepared.

#3:
There is just one problem, sir. Raptor...AU Raptor, double-D'oh Seven...he is trying to gain internet support to expose us...

Blofeld:
Terminate him in the usual manner...GOODBYE, MR. RAPTOR...MUHUHUHAHAHAHA!!!!


isall

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Thursday, August 7, 2008 2:42 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
But it was EXACTLY what the GOP has been saying all along about new sources of oil and us drilling on OUR own land.


Oh well, then, it MUST be true, seein' as it's EXACTLY what the GOP has been saying all along...

Excuse my while I pick sources to back up things MY peeps have been sayin' all along...then MY peeps will be speakin' the truth as well.

Logic has no place in Rappyworld, it seems

I love that- 'Rappyworld'isall

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Thursday, August 7, 2008 3:04 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


I wonder how the professor would feel about having words attributed to him that he didn't actually write. Is that slander, or libel ?

I wonder if he could get damages for that ?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Thursday, August 7, 2008 5:02 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

But it was EXACTLY what the GOP has been saying all along...


You'll pardon me if I remain unconvinced. This is the same GOP that said the war in Iraq would be over in a matter of days, weeks at the most. 'Course, they never bothered to tell us that they meant thousands of days and hundreds of weeks...

So when they claim that drilling at some nebulous, far-off future date will drop gas prices today, I wonder which "today" they're referring to: TODAY today, or today 20 years from now (when we're still in Iraq trying to figure out how it all went so horribly wrong).




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Friday, August 8, 2008 2:54 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
I wonder how the professor would feel about having words attributed to him that he didn't actually write. Is that slander, or libel ?

I wonder if he could get damages for that ?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not remotely a fact, it's just not."



You mean THESE words? "Basically, your main result (the present
impact of an anticipated future supply change) is already known to economists (although
perhaps not to the Democratic Policy Committee)
", where he goes so far as to mention the one political party that ignores the info which is so well known and understood , industry wide, on the matters of energy, of oil and drilling.

Those words ?



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, August 8, 2008 3:59 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


There were a couple of things about the letter that I found suspicious. First of all, the letter is unusually snarky for a peer-reviewed journal. I happen to know a scientific editor quite well, and their rejection letters NEVER look like that. It is unprofessional in the extreme. If the editor wanted to editorialize, he generally wouldn't do it through a rejection letter (which would get buried in the author's files) he would simply write an editorial.

So given that the letter is an embarrassment to both the putative sender and the putative recipient, WHO would publicize it - and why?

I couldn't track the rejection letter farther back than it supposedly being transmitted by Newt Gingrich; it sure doesn't appear on Dr. Morris Coats' website and it's definitely not accessible through the Energy Journal (which I didn't expect it to be). But even just going back to Newt Gingrich's supposed version there were already changes (in the original letter, two author's names appeared and one was struck out). I emailed Dr. Coats directly and I hope to get a reply.

---------------------------------
Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal

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Friday, August 8, 2008 4:46 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


You mean THESE words? "Basically, your main result (the present
impact of an anticipated future supply change) is already known to economists

AU- surely you can see why this is laughably unprofessional...future events KNOWN???
I don't care if Einstein wrote this mess, at best it's highly speculative, at worst it's just nonsense.

isall

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Friday, August 8, 2008 6:32 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


And yes, I realize that we're all just supposed to take their (and your) word for it THIS TIME, because they'd never mislead, underestimate, dissemble, or outright lie AGAIN, right?

Forgive me if I don't fall for the cry of "Wolf" - again. As a less-thann-brilliant orator once said, "Fool me once, shame on... shame on you. Fool me... You can't get fooled again!"




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 7:19 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


That's Rapo's biggest problem: He cherry-picks whatever info comes his way until it bears not the slightest resemblance to reality, and he does it so automatically that he doesn't even stop to give the info a "sniff test".

Rapo: Please, for your own sanity, try giving information that you don't agree with a chance before you attack it. No matter how many authorities may agree with you on an issue, they won't be able to protect you from its harsh realities.

---------------------------------
Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 8:50 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Just for the record, who was it that signed the law banning drilling off Florida?




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 11:06 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


You mean THESE words? "Basically, your main result (the present
impact of an anticipated future supply change) is already known to economists

AU- surely you can see why this is laughably unprofessional...future events KNOWN???
I don't care if Einstein wrote this mess, at best it's highly speculative, at worst it's just nonsense.

isall
]

If that's what you need to do to justify it all, fine. Just a sad commentary on those who can't face facts.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 11:12 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Rap

Do you even know the document is real ? If you do, prove it to everyone. Otherwise off.

***************************************************************
And why are we even talking about this anyway ? B/c the repubicans want us to ? Fuck that !

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 11:14 AM

CHRISISALL


What Rue said (tm)

isall

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 11:17 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


S'wenways

Let's have a real discussion about a real topic of genuine importance.

Who wants to go first ?


***************************************************************
Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice.

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 1:34 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
S'wenways

Let's have a real discussion about a real topic of genuine importance.

Who wants to go first ?


***************************************************************
Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice.



Real topic? Genuine Importance?

What are these concepts that you speak of?

We need.... We need...



KITTENS!!!




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 2:23 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


AAAAaaawwwwwww ...

What a cutie.

***************************************************************
Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice.

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 2:42 PM

CHRISISALL






Ceilingcatisall

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 2:52 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION




carpetkitty gonna 'neak up on you

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

"Yes-- Cheney are Bush are men of peace-- this we know. It is terrible that their good deeds are being thwarted, misinterpreted-- so much so that they are forced to direct others to torture prisoners." Professor Michael Levine







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Saturday, August 9, 2008 3:00 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Ceiling kitty ...... another cutie.

Carpet kitty looks kinda' pie-eyed - like my kitties did when I drugged them to give them baths ... once.

Only once.


Never again.

***************************************************************
Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice.

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 3:12 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Only once is right! I didn't have the option of drugging mine to bathe them. And I've got the scars to prove it!

I find wrapping them tightly in a towel helps a bit when I have to clean their ears or give them medicine. It only helps a bit, but it's better than nothin'.




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 3:18 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


mushu kitty (otherwise known as JESUS CHRIST THAT CAT IS HUGE) has to be bathed weekly. I do not do it. I make the kids.



I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

"Yes-- Cheney are Bush are men of peace-- this we know. It is terrible that their good deeds are being thwarted, misinterpreted-- so much so that they are forced to direct others to torture prisoners." Professor Michael Levine







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Saturday, August 9, 2008 5:36 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


How to make a dirty cat clean and happy:

1) Get a brush. For long-furred cats get a stiff-bristled, for short-haired cats a soft-bristle will do.

2) Brush them down to the skin, paying special attention to the spine and the cheeks.

3) Get a sponge and a bucket of water. Wet the sponge just a little wetter than moist.

4) Use it like a cat tongue. Drag the sponge from front to back. The wet sponge will drag out loose hairs, and pull off dirt, dust, and dander. You'd be surprised how dirty that sponge will get! Be prepared to rinse and wring it out several times!

5) When you're done your cat's coat will be glossy and clean.

I had a cat once who actually let me bathe him w/o squalling and clawing. He had megacolon, poor thing, and had to be "cleaned out" once in a while, and his hair would get matted with you-know-what. It was amazing how trusting he was, I guess he figured I was just helping him.

---------------------------------
Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 8:35 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Rap

Do you even know the document is real ? If you do, prove it to everyone. Otherwise off.

***************************************************************
And why are we even talking about this anyway ? B/c the repubicans want us to ? Fuck that !




Go fuck yourself, asshole.

It's a real letter, a real publication and a real study. If being a prick is your only response, that I've given you mine.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 4:11 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:



Go fuck yourself, asshole.

It's a real letter, a real publication and a real study. If being a prick is your only response, that I've given you mine.



Speaking of touching a nerve...

Relax, hotshot - Is it out of line to ask for verification on something like this? After all, it's not like we haven't been bullshitted by you guys before.




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 5:32 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:



Go fuck yourself, asshole.

It's a real letter, a real publication and a real study. If being a prick is your only response, that I've given you mine.



Speaking of touching a nerve...

Relax, hotshot - Is it out of line to ask for verification on something like this? After all, it's not like we haven't been bullshitted by you guys before.


Mike



First of all, it was a response to Rue's " go off " directed toward me, which I found to be unwarranted. Over-reaction? Possibly, I'll give that, but I'm getting so sick of this petty, pointless, sniping and bickering over the most inane and trivial of matters.

Yes, it's a real letter. A real journal and a real report. Why do I need to verify anything to you ? I don't, and that's what pisses me off so much. Don't believe me ? Then do due diligence and show that it is NOT legit, and I'll consider your findings. I've presented the information, as is, under no false pretense, and take it at face value. The burden of proof now rest w/ you to determine if it is 'real' or not. And so we're sure, that fact that you don't like it, don't agree with it or the findings of the study or any damn thing about what I've presented in no way what so ever speaks to its inauthenticity what so ever.

And spare us your trivial anecdotal stories, of how you have a cousin whose neighbor's best friend is a research scientist, and HE says this letter sounds " unprofessional " , so you're going to dismiss the whole thing, out of hand, on that alone. That won't cut it.

And as for being bullshitted by " us guys ", I don't even know how to respond to that one. There's been no act of deception on my part, the conservatives , Republicans, etc...so I can't rightly know what it is you mean when you say " you guys ".



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 5:44 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
There's been no act of deception on my part, the conservatives , Republicans, etc...so I can't rightly know what it is you mean when you say " you guys ".




OMG, LOL, just when I thought you couldn't get any funnier....I take it back AU- DON'T shut up!


Thisstuffispricelessisall

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 6:56 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
There's been no act of deception on my part, the conservatives , Republicans, etc...so I can't rightly know what it is you mean when you say " you guys ".




OMG, LOL, just when I thought you couldn't get any funnier....I take it back AU- DON'T shut up!


Thisstuffispricelessisall



You lack of any examples only proves I'm right.


Thanksisall.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 9:40 AM

WHODIED


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Just for the record, who was it that signed the law banning drilling off Florida?


Mike



Congress, initially. 1981-ish. The first President to reinforce that action with an executive ban was Bush Sr. (Never suspected I'd miss that guy!)

Bush Jr's pledge to lift that executive ban is: a) meaningless without an act of congress, (or an inaction, come annual time to re-sign,) and b) empty posturing since the D-sider knows congress ain't budging.

Here's a cursory article:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25674571/


Of course if you doubt that, the 'burden of proof' falls to you.

Apparently.


Or hey, screw verification! Verisimilitude will doo...

--WhoDied


_______________________

"So, what, you think there's some big conspiracy?
So his papers are gone. That doesn't prove anything."

"Except that somebody didn't want us to prove anything."



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Sunday, August 10, 2008 9:50 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Funny how ,ever since Bush's meaningless lifting of the E.O. banning the drilling for oil off shore, the price of oil/ gas has come steadily down.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 10:58 AM

WHODIED


Yeah...


That can't have anything to do with the drop in barrel prices from weeks ago, combined with BigOil's desire to influence the politicians (via a loud, shortsighted citizenry) and get their hands on more product.

Gooey Petroleum goodness, yay!

Try to understand that Exxon Mobil et al. are multi-nationals. By definition, their interest in drilling is MONEY, not 'cheap gas for Americans.' There is ABSOLUTELY NO GUARANTEE they'll even sell that oil to us.

Once we lease those fields/drilling rights, they can sell to anyone.

My guess, (therefore TOTALLY unsubstantiated no doubt,) is they'll sell it to the highest bidder.

Now if you'd like, we can NATIONALIZE those reserves...



--WhoDied


_______________________

All those secrets you've been concealing
Say you're happy now...



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