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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
And he's not committed any act of grave political stupidity bad enough to send me into a foaming rant neither

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Originally posted by SergeantX
Renigging on the FISA vote doesn't count? That one scares me and may be the truest indicator of how he'll govern, despite the promises of 'change'. (yes, I'm war-driving)

SergeantX

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Barack Obama
BIO Become a Fan Get Email Alerts Bloggers' Index
My Position On FISA
Posted July 3, 2008 | 05:05 PM (EST)
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Today, Barack Obama posted a message to supporters on my.barackobama.com about the FISA legislation.

I want to take this opportunity to speak directly to those of you who oppose my decision to support the FISA compromise.

This was not an easy call for me. I know that the FISA bill that passed the House is far from perfect. I wouldn't have drafted the legislation like this, and it does not resolve all of the concerns that we have about President Bush's abuse of executive power. It grants retroactive immunity to telecommunications companies that may have violated the law by cooperating with the Bush administration's program of warrantless wiretapping. This potentially weakens the deterrent effect of the law and removes an important tool for the American people to demand accountability for past abuses. That's why I support striking Title II from the bill, and will work with Chris Dodd, Jeff Bingaman and others in an effort to remove this provision in the Senate.

But I also believe that the compromise bill is far better than the Protect America Act that I voted against last year. The exclusivity provision makes it clear to any president or telecommunications company that no law supersedes the authority of the FISA court. In a dangerous world, government must have the authority to collect the intelligence we need to protect the American people. But in a free society, that authority cannot be unlimited. As I've said many times, an independent monitor must watch the watchers to prevent abuses and to protect the civil liberties of the American people. This compromise law assures that the FISA court has that responsibility.

The Inspectors General report also provides a real mechanism for accountability and should not be discounted. It will allow a close look at past misconduct without hurdles that would exist in federal court because of classification issues. The recent investigation (PDF) uncovering the illegal politicization of Justice Department hiring sets a strong example of the accountability that can come from a tough and thorough IG report.

The ability to monitor and track individuals who want to attack the United States is a vital counter-terrorism tool, and I'm persuaded that it is necessary to keep the American people safe -- particularly since certain electronic surveillance orders will begin to expire later this summer. Given the choice between voting for an improved yet imperfect bill, and losing important surveillance tools, I've chosen to support the current compromise. I do so with the firm intention -- once I'm sworn in as president -- to have my Attorney General conduct a comprehensive review of all our surveillance programs, and to make further recommendations on any steps needed to preserve civil liberties and to prevent executive branch abuse in the future.

Now, I understand why some of you feel differently about the current bill, and I'm happy to take my lumps on this side and elsewhere. For the truth is that your organizing, your activism and your passion is an important reason why this bill is better than previous versions. No tool has been more important in focusing peoples' attention on the abuses of executive power in this administration than the active and sustained engagement of American citizens. That holds true -- not just on wiretapping, but on a range of issues where Washington has let the American people down.

I learned long ago, when working as an organizer on the South Side of Chicago, that when citizens join their voices together, they can hold their leaders accountable. I'm not exempt from that. I'm certainly not perfect, and expect to be held accountable too. I cannot promise to agree with you on every issue. But I do promise to listen to your concerns, take them seriously, and seek to earn your ongoing support to change the country. That is why we have built the largest grassroots campaign in the history of presidential politics, and that is the kind of White House that I intend to run as president of the United States -- a White House that takes the Constitution seriously, conducts the peoples' business out in the open, welcomes and listens to dissenting views, and asks you to play your part in shaping our country's destiny.

Democracy cannot exist without strong differences. And going forward, some of you may decide that my FISA position is a deal breaker. That's ok. But I think it is worth pointing out that our agreement on the vast majority of issues that matter outweighs the differences we may have. After all, the choice in this election could not be clearer. Whether it is the economy, foreign policy, or the Supreme Court, my opponent has embraced the failed course of the last eight years, while I want to take this country in a new direction. Make no mistake: if John McCain is elected, the fundamental direction of this country that we love will not change. But if we come together, we have an historic opportunity to chart a new course, a better course.

So I appreciate the feedback through my.barackobama.com, and I look forward to continuing the conversation in the months and years to come. Together, we have a lot of work to do.


I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original




“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

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"The main reason I oppose this latest version is that it still clearly violates the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution by allowing the federal government to engage in the bulk collection of American citizens’ communications without a search warrant. That US citizens can have their private communication intercepted by the government without a search warrant is anti-American, deeply disturbing, and completely unacceptable.

In addition to gutting the fourth amendment, this measure will deprive Americans who have had their rights violated by telecommunication companies involved in the Administration’s illegal wiretapping program the right to seek redress in the courts for the wrongs committed against them. Worse, this measure provides for retroactive immunity, whereby individuals or organizations that broke the law as it existed are granted immunity for prior illegal actions once the law has been changed. Ex post facto laws have long been considered anathema in free societies under rule of law. Our Founding Fathers recognized this, including in Article I section 9 of the Constitution that “No bill of attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.” How is this FISA bill not a variation of ex post facto? That alone should give pause to supporters of this measure."

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
(obligatory snark, feel free to ignore)
Besides making the GOP look like idiots without even trying ?
(actual content begins here)

I would have to say being the first man of color to be actively and seriously considered as a presidential contender is a hell of an accomplishment all in itself - while that's not all his thunder and should acknowledge all the work of those who came before and made it possible, he *IS* on the ballot, isn't he ?

And he's not committed any act of grave political stupidity bad enough to send me into a foaming rant neither, which given the subhumans we've been floating on the ticket the past two decades is a plus... come on, Wallace? Dukakkis ? Mondale?!, Dole?!!

The rest of his standard-issue accomplishments is a matter of public record and IMHO just passably sufficient for a Presidential Candidate by a thin margin - although any affliation with AIPAC concerns me, as is well known.

One thing DID jump out at me, however, this is a man who TAUGHT Constitutional Law for twelve years, and as such has a pretty good idea of what the intentional limits on presidential authority are and why they are there, something he has gently hinted at a couple times during his campaign.

I would have to say, however, so far his greatest accomplishment is to be a viable presidential contender in spite of the scorched-earth campaign being waged against him by folk who've been in power for eight solid years fortifying their position.

That makes him a pretty damn canny politician, but of course is not exactly proof he'd be a good president.

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Renigging on the FISA vote doesn't count?

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Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Please google them. He's been around a while. Even if you haven't been paying attention, many of us have.

HKCavalier

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I think he was a community organizer. He worked for an organization that was created by his wife so he could organize for a living. After that he organised some things. And no PN and Whozit, an organizer doesn't do things with organs.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

After all, can you name me one executive position that Christ was ever elected to? Wasn't he, after all, just a community organizer?

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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I think he was a community organizer. He worked for an organization that was created by his wife so he could organize for a living. After that he organised some things. And no PN and Whozit, an organizer doesn't do things with organs.

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The right seems to have a very dim view of community organizers, I've noticed. Seems a bit odd, given their views on Christ and religion. After all, can you name me one executive position that Christ was ever elected to? Wasn't he, after all, just a community organizer?

And what of The Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King, Junior? Another community organizer. I know McCain has no respect for him, but did he do nothing in his lifetime? Were his efforts at organization utterly worthless in the long run?

Mahatma Gandhi was another community organizer who never accomplished anything...

So keep harping on organizers as being useless. I'm sure it will help your grassroots efforts to get out the vote when you tell the volunteers who work for you that you despise them and their efforts.
Mike

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Originally posted by Riverlove:
All of Obama's accomplishments wouldn't fill up one page when compared to the book of John McCain's autobiography. As far as legislative leadership Obama's minimal bits don't even measure on the same scale as John McCain.

Obama's greatest accomplishment is just getting where he is. Taking the MoveOn maniac's internet money and going out early against Hillary. Brilliant. Once he secured Iowa, the zealot media immediately ran to his side. They trashed Hillary, and she never got fully caught up. Obama actually just limped into the nomination at the end. Then the media and Obama himself went ahead and declared him the de-facto President. Call it arrogance or delusion on their part, forgetting there is actually an election to be won first. The entire progression of Obama's rise has been both amazing to see, and also a sad testament to witness as to what happens when the fringe puts up a candidiate that wins the nomination. At least it wasn't Kucinich.

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Originally posted by Riverlove:
I can just imagine a future nightmare scenario where Obamas's been called to the War Room and he learns that Iran has sent troops into Iraq and launched missiles at Israel. Mr. President, what are we going to do? Obama answers "present".

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:

...and we can all laugh at the good insults and put downs, wouldn't it be better to really explore topics and see what we can agree on and discover?

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Community organizers are like the old-time encyclopedia salemen. A group of ambitious young people are driven around town in a van, and then dropped off on street corners, each to canvass the neighborhoods with their pitch. They must say the word "present" a lot while on the job. Obama sure used the answer "present" alot, 100's of times actually, and every time he answered that way instead of actually voting he failed to do his elected duty as a legislator.

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I can just imagine a future nightmare scenario where Obamas's been called to the War Room and he learns that Iran has sent troops into Iraq and launched missiles at Israel. Mr. President, what are we going to do? Obama answers "present".

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