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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:


National Socialism anyone? Thats EXACTLY what this is.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
But, ummm, Bush is doing this, isn't he, like, your guy, Wulf?

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:


National Socialism anyone? Thats EXACTLY what this is.

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But, ummm, Bush is doing this, isn't he, like, your guy, Wulf?

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/20/news/economy/bailout_proposal/index.ht
m?postversion=2008092009


I want you guys to think about this...If the government owns the free market, it owns you. Its not a joke, or even remotely funny. The U.S. government will now control much of Wall Street, and most of of the housing market.

National Socialism anyone? Thats EXACTLY what this is.

And, where the fuck are we going to get this money? Borrowing from China? or Iraq?

THIS HAS GOT TO STOP

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:


I haven’t looked at Bush’s bailout plan, but my initial judgment is that I’m not real psyched about it.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:


I haven’t looked at Bush’s bailout plan, but my initial judgment is that I’m not real psyched about it.

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You need to stop fixating on Bush. It’s like you have some sort of repressed gay-love for him.

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You need to stop fixating on Bush.

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Originally posted by SignyM:

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You need to stop fixating on Bush.

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Why? He IS the cause of all this, AND he's the one "fixing" it. Why should we ignore him? So he can get a free pass on his horrific policies?

You really should stop enabling him.

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And, where the fuck are we going to get this money? Borrowing from China? or Iraq?

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
And that's even stupider.

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Various scholars attribute different characteristics to fascism, but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: nationalism,

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militarism

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totalitarianism

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dictatorship

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class collaboration

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populism

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collectivism

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statism

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social interventionism

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economic planning

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Fascist governments nationalized key industries, made massive state investments, and partially abolished property rights and markets. They also introduced price controls and other types of economic planning measures. Fascists promoted their ideology as a "third way" between capitalism and Marxian socialism.

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The Death of Three Nations

2006

Corporate Greed…

First, let’s take a look at the wage gap between CEOs and non-management employees. In 1980, the average pay for a corporate executive officer was 42 times that of the average employee compensation (42:1). In 2004, the ratio was 431:1. In other words, the gap had widened by slightly over a thousand percent. This was actually a drop from a high of 531:1 in 1999. A one hundred point drop is significant, but the gap remains far too wide.

CEOs generally hold considerable sway over corporate board members, and therefore exercise a tremendous amount of control over their own compensation. In 2004, Yahoo’s Chief Executive Terry Semel raked in $230.6 million dollars in total compensation. That works out to $631,780.83 per day. How many of you reading this earn 600 G’s per day? Per year? Per decade?

I’m not singling Terry out of a crowd. But this is a good example of the extravagance of corporate pay packages. Let’s say some CEO earns $100 million per year. That’s $273,972.60 per day. If we cut his pay to “only” $50 million per year, that’s still one hundred thirty-six thousand dollars per day. One would think that he could scrape by on that amount, although he might be forced to keep his old yacht an extra year before trading it in. Oh… the hardship!

The other $50 million could be pumped into the company’s retirement fund, paid out in dividends to shareholders, or maybe even (gasp!) used to finance a pay raise for employees. Assuming this theoretical company has 5000 employees, that’d be a ten thousand dollar a year pay increase for each of them.

www.nationalledger.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi?archive=1&num=6405

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Originally posted by citizen:
Hey I only said it because it winds up the real idiots around here, makes them start calling people names, trying to hide the fact that they really are stupid...

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You really should stop enabling him.-Signy

And that's even stupider.-Finn

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
He said it serioiusly, too. His grasp of the situation ranks him right up there with a typical 16-year-old saying, "I can't be out of money; I still have checks in my checkbook!"

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Yes, I know that’s why you do it. That’s also why chris and Signym fixate on Bush. You’re all always trying to start a fight. But you have to devote a lot of energy to a fight, and I don't have that kind of energy right now.

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Not really. Printing more money is on option for solving these kinds of problems. It gets you out of little jams like this; it’s just not something you want to do a lot.

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Not really. Printing more money is on option for solving these kinds of problems. It gets you out of little jams like this; it’s just not something you want to do a lot.

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Note the Fascist fasci (bundle of sticks)

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
But yes, that is indeed the fasci, and in fact the exact same design of one as the flag flown by Mussolinis government, only without the axe.

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You really should stop enabling him.-Signy

And that's even stupider.-Finn

Finn, when it comes to Bush's most disastrous policies, you haven't said "boo!". Starting with tax cuts and "trickle down" economics, moving right along with massive deregulation, an expensive and useless war, and frantic government borrowing... all set the stage for the current crisis. Where were YOU when this was all going on? As I recall, you were rationalizing and making excuses, mostly. Maybe I'm unfairly tarring your opinion on Bush's economic policies with your opinion on the Iraq war (which has been blind followership, as far as I can tell). If so, let me know what your real opinions were on the above policies and I'll apologize.-Signy

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Originally posted by SignyM:
So, am I wrong?

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:

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Originally posted by SignyM:
So, am I wrong?

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Probably, but why do you insist upon making this discussion about me?

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:

I haven’t looked at Bush’s bailout plane, but my initial judgment is that I’m not real psyched about it. I don’t think we want to reward bad investors or create an institution of speculating against the government or unnecessarily widen government intrusion. Which is kind of what I think this does.

First of all, we shouldn’t be propping up failing enterprises, but rather the government should step in to provide an orderly and judicious system to their acquisition or restructuring.

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Probably, but why do you insist upon making this discussion about me?

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Kirk... you really don't get it, do you?

The system was within ONE DAY of panic.

How do I know???


Because usually they do the big stuff on the weekends... bailing out Freddie and Fannie, Lehman declaring bankruptcy etc.


The financial institutions are only 5-10% capitalized. NONE of them could w/stand a run.

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:


I haven’t looked at Bush’s bailout plan, but my initial judgment is that I’m not real psyched about it.

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You need to stop fixating on Bush. It’s like you have some sort of repressed gay-love for him.

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That's pretty stupid, even for you.

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Much as folks ain't gonna give credit cause of carrying grudges from other threads in here, I do believe Wulfie has a point.

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Oh, no, I totally agree; he does.

Chrisiswithya

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Your last few posts were stupid, especially for you. You say I fixate on Bush, and your very next post is ABOUT BUSH. Amazing how peeps allow only for themselves in a conversation.

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/20/news/economy/bailout_proposal/index.ht
m?postversion=2008092009


I want you guys to think about this...If the government owns the free market, it owns you. Its not a joke, or even remotely funny. The U.S. government will now control much of Wall Street, and most of of the housing market.

National Socialism anyone? Thats EXACTLY what this is.

And, where the fuck are we going to get this money? Borrowing from China? or Iraq?

THIS HAS GOT TO STOP

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
My next post wasn’t about Bush.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
My next post wasn’t about Bush.

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"I haven’t looked at Bush’s bailout plane, but my initial judgment is that I’m not real psyched about it."

It was about BUSH'S bailout, and hey- it's not really even HIS plan, some other folk came up with it, he's just pushing it, so in effect YOU are obsessing more than I am over the dude...that is sad.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
I'm pretty much writing off any 3rd-party candidates this time around,
Mike

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
So you tend to lean to the right, I tend to lean to the left (okay, FAR left), and we still manage to find some common ground.

Mike

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Originally posted by Kirkules:
That's the great thing about the Libertarian Party, I can be pro-life and you can be pro-choice, but as long as we both agree it's none of the Government's business we all get along great.

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I'm in V.A. Do you happen to know what the rules are in something like this?

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That's the great thing about the Libertarian Party, I can be pro-life and you can be pro-choice, but as long as we both agree it's none of the Government's business we all get along great.

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Originally posted by swish:

Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.

Whoa.

So, for the next three months, and then an additional six months after that, the Treasury Secretary can do anything he deems appropriate without anybody anywhere looking it over.

That seems like an awful lot of absolute power. Am I wrong? Is this typical bureaucratic langauge? Or is this as strange as it seems?

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Question: Is it possible to use this disaster as a step toward solving the larger issue of the vast discrepanacy between rich and poor?
I do not want to see my taxes used to sustain or re-establish the grossly inequitable status quo ante. Some proportionality should be observed; let those most responsible for the disaster bear the biggest share of the tax burden to fix it.

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Originally posted by Kirkules:
Normally this type of language would be a deal breaker in any legislation, but Hank Paulson is highly respected on both sides of the isle and in the financial community. He is also friends with the Chairman of the House Appropriations Committee (D)Barney Frank. Paulson has been in charge of a lot more money than this as Chief Executive Officer at Goldman Sachs and proved himself honest and capable.

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