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Aren't you Obama fans forgetting to thank this guy ?

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Saturday, November 8, 2008 05:56
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Thursday, November 6, 2008 3:40 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!





With out his screw up, Obama would still be in Chicago, and not at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.


Just wondered how many of y'all thought of that.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, November 6, 2008 3:43 PM

SERGEANTX


nah, this is who Obama should be thanking:




SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Thursday, November 6, 2008 3:44 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Uh... who is that?

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Thursday, November 6, 2008 3:46 PM

SERGEANTX


Some loser from the last administration. Can't remember his name.

or, oh, did you mean AU's picture? It's Jack Ryan, the guy who lost to Obama in the 2004 Senate race.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Thursday, November 6, 2008 6:55 PM

MALBADINLATIN


AURaptor...Karl Rove explained that Republicans have respect for the authority within thier party. But he must have lied. Because Bush, Rove, and McCain have all called for unity and support for Obama's efforts. Every Republican I know is already nay saying, and criticising Obama for not having a cabinet together two months before he takes office. Plus the whole shabang still with election non-issues

You Republicans insist on being an irrational bunch of pains in the ass. How disrespectful towards your leaders that is. You all would rather relax in the delusion that you're right as opposed to being happy.

I've asked myself if I would be behaving as disgracefully as you Republicans if McCain had won. And I realized that I have my record for the last eight years that tells me I have been behaving disgracefully, but Bush deserved my criticism.


Trolls against McCain

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Thursday, November 6, 2008 8:38 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
Some loser from the last administration. Can't remember his name.

or, oh, did you mean AU's picture? It's Jack Ryan, the guy who lost to Obama in the 2004 Senate race.

SergeantX




Jack Ryan withdrew from the '04 race, after the sealed records of his '99 divorce from dead sexy Jeri Ryan had become public. Obama ended up runnging against and beating last minute stand in candidate, Alan Keyes.






It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, November 6, 2008 9:03 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by MalBadInLatin:
AURaptor...Karl Rove explained that Republicans have respect for the authority within thier party. But he must have lied. Because Bush, Rove, and McCain have all called for unity and support for Obama's efforts. Every Republican I know is already nay saying, and criticising Obama for not having a cabinet together two months before he takes office. Plus the whole shabang still with election non-issues



First, I'm an American, and not a Republican . More conservative than Republican. So Rove was wrong, he didn't lie. He had no idea I'd ignore what a bunch of politicians in D.C. have to say. Fact is, I thought those guys were suppose to listen to US, not the other way around.

Quote:

You Republicans insist on being an irrational bunch of pains in the ass. How disrespectful towards your leaders that is. You all would rather relax in the delusion that you're right as opposed to being happy.


First, I'll never be happy if we have a socialist in the White House. I don't give a gorram what color he/she is. Second, where's the disrespect ? All I did was suggest , rather tonge in cheekishly, that maybe Jack Ryan deserves some credit for dropping out and making the path for B.O. all that much easier. Duh.

Quote:

I've asked myself if I would be behaving as disgracefully as you Republicans if McCain had won.


Would have ? Hell, the Dems were 100x's disrespectful towards W already, and that's just the Dem political LEADERS!
So, spare me the croc tears here, they're not working.

Quote:

And I realized that I have my record for the last eight years that tells me I have been behaving disgracefully, but Bush deserved my criticism.



Oh, of course, it's ok when YOU do it, because Bush deserves it. Is that right ?

Grow the hell up, if ya can.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, November 7, 2008 7:42 AM

MALBADINLATIN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
First, I'm an American, and not a Republican . More conservative than Republican.

Yeah? you walk like a Republican, and quack like a Republican. What issues do you disagree with Bush/Rove on? I'm not doubting there may be some but my curiosity has gotten the better of me.
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor: So Rove was wrong, he didn't lie. He had no idea I'd ignore what a bunch of politicians in D.C. have to say. Fact is, I thought those guys were suppose to listen to US, not the other way around. I'll never be happy if we have a socialist in the White House. I don't give a gorram what color he/she is. Second, where's the disrespect ? All I did was suggest , rather tonge in cheekishly, that maybe Jack Ryan deserves some credit for dropping out and making the path for B.O. all that much easier. Duh.
Obama ran as a Reagan Republican according to Fox news this AM.
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:Oh, of course, it's ok when YOU do it, because Bush deserves it. Is that right ? Grow the hell up, if ya can.
Honestly, I wish I wouldn't have. But grown up's invariably stumble into thier own mediocrity...say...in a dark hallway of a bar when they're 30something. And a sophomoric logic student will often consider themselves to be groundbreakingly brilliant. It's the rebellious ones that think they have the one of the few real overviews of life that I approve of and wish I understood. That's where the real innovative thought comes from. But from you AURaptor...I just hear Fox News regurgitated.

Trolls against McCain

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Friday, November 7, 2008 8:05 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Yeah? you walk like a Republican, and quack like a Republican. What issues do you disagree with Bush/Rove on? I'm not doubting there may be some but my curiosity has gotten the better of me.l


Then you don't know the difference between a Republican and a Conservative.

I oppose Cap/Trade or any other program which recognizes man made global warming as an issue. Kyoto is a utter joke. There's no possible way we can tax ourselves into changing the climate of the planet. It's simply nonsense.

Harriet Myers- Never thought she was a good pick for the USSC

McCain/Feingold Campaign Finance - Bush should have vetoed that miserable piece of legislation.

Keeping Rumsfeld on for so long, when it was clear his plans were NOT working. He should have started the surge earlier, one of the few times I agreed w/ McCain

Quote:

Obama ran as a Reagan Republican according to Fox news this AM.


In style perhaps, but certainly not in substance. Your point ?

Quote:

BLah blah blah.....blahblahblah...blah blah....But from you AURaptor...I just hear Fox News regurgitated.
Which is really funny, considering I rarely even WATCH FOX news at all !




It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, November 7, 2008 8:08 AM

RIVERLOVE


Thank Mike Ditka as well. He was asked to run for that Senate seat but declined. Ditka could have won it without even campaigning.

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Friday, November 7, 2008 8:42 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Riverlove:
Thank Mike Ditka as well. He was asked to run for that Senate seat but declined. Ditka could have won it without even campaigning.



Maybe he can run for the seat now ?






It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, November 7, 2008 8:57 AM

WASHNWEAR


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
nah, this is who Obama should be thanking:




SergeantX



Exactly. I can just about guarantee I'd have voted for Obama anyway, but my gut feeling is that what swung a lot of people that way was pent-up reaction to the last 8 years...and then McCain went and reinforced that reaction with his(?) choice of Palin.

Not for nothin' (or maybe it is), but I hope McCain, the man, is feeling alright in himself in the aftermath. And that's not snark - I'm being sincere if perhaps silly. I feel he sold a large chunk of his ass (read: soul) in this campaign.


It was like compromise could be a real mother when we got here!

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Friday, November 7, 2008 9:08 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


It was (brown)neck-and-(red)neck till the credit meltdown.

I am just SO happy the shit hit the fan while Bush was still in office. He didn't get to skate on everything after all.

McCain HAD to sell that large saggy chunk to the party. He went for public campaign financing (probably Cindy didn't want her money frittered away on his political ambitions) - but the party was allowed to and did pay for over 50% of his campaign (and it doesn't count). Bush and Cheney and others held many private large-donor events (ten thousand dollars a plate and up) and the repubican party out-garnered the democratic party 10:1.

McCain wasn't running his campaign, Rove was.

***************************************************************

Follow the money.

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Friday, November 7, 2008 9:12 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


So shouldn't Obama be thanking Alan Keyes? After all, if the Republicans hadn't merely put up a token (sounds familiar...), figuring that anyone voting for "a black guy" would vote for ANY black guy, and had put up a REAL candidate, they might have retained that seat.

Likewise, McCain should be sure and thank Sarah Palin for costing him the election.

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Friday, November 7, 2008 9:17 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


McCain HAD to sell that large chunk to the party. He went for public campaign financing (probably Cindy didn't want her money frittered away on his political ambitions) - but the party was allowed to and did pay for over 50% of his campaign (and it doesn't count). Bush and Cheney and others held many private large-donor events (ten thousand dollars a plate and up) and the repubican party out-garnered the democratic party 10:1.

McCain wasn't running his campaign, Rove was.



Exactly. Because the PARTY was putting up the money for ad buys and anti-Obama rhetoric in the press, it had literally bought the rights to tell McCain whom he'd be running with. They went for the base, and it failed them, miserably.

Meanwhile, Obama was out-earning his party by a HUGE margin, meaning that THEY needed his money more than he needed theirs, in order to shore up other Democrats in tight races. As such, they owe more to Obama than he owes to the party.

Mike

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Friday, November 7, 2008 10:17 AM

RIVERLOVE


Are some of you just making this up as you go? I mean really!

Rove had absolutely nothing to do with the McCain campaign. He's been busy writing for Newsweek, appearing on Fox News, writing on his website, and many other non-McCain activites. If McCain had actually used some of Rove's strategies he might have fared better.

Without Sarah Palin running with McCain, the vote would likely have gone something like 65% Obama to 35% McCain. McCain would have been lucky to get 100 electoral votes. She brought out Republican voters in droves that McCain never could have, like me.

Most of us had totally given up on the 2008 election to be honest because we hated McCain and the Dems looked unstoppable in light of the Bush malaise, but when Palin was added, I said what the hell, I'll vote. She 'aint going away, much as you'd like.

I heard that McCain's first choice for VP was Liebermann, but the RNC said no, loudly. So McCain went out and found himself another rogue like himself. Yeah, she was raw, she was not really ready to be thrust into the national arena, she needed more prep etc, but to absurdly claim that she cost him the election is just partisan nonsense, and ass-covering by the McCain advisor-idiots.

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Friday, November 7, 2008 10:33 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


No, Riverlove, I'm not making this up.

Somewhere I posted a source for who was paying McCain's campaign bills (if you missed it, it was the repubican party).

Just yesterday I saw a news article that while it seemed like turnout was high, it was - at best - 1% above 2004 turnout, because repubicans stayed home. (I could try and dig that article out or you could just take my word for it.) And Bush, Cheney, Rove et al were behind the scenes working the traditional moneyed groups, very, very diligently. They KNEW they couldn't campaign for McCain, but they did their damnedest raising money and running things.

Elsewhere I've read articles that after the initial post-convention reaction to Palin her negatives zoomed while her positives dropped, even among repubicans.

Finally, the McCain campaign said they 'thoroughly vetted' her - but then there were all sorts of revelations that blew up in their faces. McCain staring at her ass made it seem like HE didn't think of her as a serious VP candidate. And then there are the things that have come out of the campaign post-election - she refused a prep session before going on air with Couric, for example.

Lieberman was McCain's right-hand man all this time. McCain seemed like he wanted to pick him.

If McCain had been allowed to pick Lieberman it would have garnered a huge chunk from the middle that otherwise went with Obama. As it was, Palin may have brought out SOME of 'the base' - but 'the base' is simply too small to win an election on. And too many middle people and repubicans were turned off by her. Some went Obama, some stayed home.


***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, November 7, 2008 10:59 AM

RIVERLOVE


We're not that far apart in what we're saying. I know the Republican turnout was low, but it would have been damn invisible without Palin.

I know Bush and co. helped raise some money for McCain, but the results of the election clearly show that McCain's advisors never listened to the simple advise Rove was giving out for free on his webiste and all over cable tv.

Probably the worst campaign I've seen since Dukakis, these 2 little worms from the McCain campaign sound to me like they're laying the groundwork for a book deal or miniseries. The Palin insiders debunk all of this crap, give many examples of her knowledge and intelligence, but none of it matters now. The election is over. Palin will be back, stronger than ever. Apparently she's in high demand now all over the media. We'll be seeing a lot of her.

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Friday, November 7, 2008 11:12 AM

WHOZIT


Obama can also thank his filthy whores in the press, who are bleeding viewers and readers. I hope Olberman ends up living under a hiway overpass.

I'm going to microwave a bagel and have sex with it - Peter Griffin

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Friday, November 7, 2008 11:23 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"I know the Republican turnout was low, but it would have been damn invisible without Palin."

But that was the problem, you see. They should have gone for the middle - the moderate republicans, uncommitted democrats and independents. They lost by basing their campaign on 'the base' instead of appealling to a wider demographic. They could have dropped the fringe repubicans (the ones who really, really like Palin) and picked up the middle and done much, much better. Instead they went for the fringe (a low-number demographic) and dropped the middle.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, November 7, 2008 11:39 AM

RIVERLOVE


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
"I know the Republican turnout was low, but it would have been damn invisible without Palin."

But that was the problem, you see. They should have gone for the middle - the moderate republicans, uncommitted democrats and independents. They lost by basing their campaign on 'the base' instead of appealling to a wider demographic. They could have dropped the fringe repubicans (the ones who really, really like Palin) and picked up the middle and done much, much better. Instead they went for the fringe (a low-number demographic) and dropped the middle.



Interesting, something I'll contemplate.

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Friday, November 7, 2008 11:41 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Here's some figures to go with my post:

NYTimes
A growing number of voters have (said) ... Sarah Palin ... is not qualified to be vice president, weighing down the Republican ticket in the last days of the campaign ...
All told, 59 percent of voters surveyed said Ms. Palin was not prepared for the job, up nine percentage points since the beginning of the month. Nearly a third of voters polled said the vice-presidential selection would be a major factor influencing their vote for president, and those voters broadly favor Senator Barack Obama, the Democratic nominee.
Over all, views of Ms. Palin were apparently shaped more by ideology and party than by gender. Ms. Palin was viewed as unprepared for the job by about 6 in 10 men and women alike. But 8 in 10 Democrats viewed her as unprepared, as well as more than 6 in 10 independents and 3 in 10 Republicans.


Though 7 in 10 repubicans looks like good numbers for Palin, fewer and fewer people identify themselves as repubicans:

PEW Research
In 5,566 interviews with registered voters conducted by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press during the first two months of 2008, 36% identify themselves as Democrats, and just 27% as Republicans.
The share of voters who call themselves Republicans has declined by six points since 2004, and represents, on an annualized basis, the lowest percentage of self-identified Republican voters in 16 years of polling by the Center.


***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, November 7, 2008 4:55 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
Obama can also thank his filthy whores in the press, who are bleeding viewers and readers. I hope Olberman ends up living under a hiway overpass.

I'm going to microwave a bagel and have sex with it - Peter Griffin



So the press is bleeding viewers and readers, yet still has so much influence that they're able to swing an election. Interesting...

And hopefully if Olbermann ends up living under an overpass, Palin can borrow some nice clothes and go beg a bagel for him.

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Friday, November 7, 2008 7:16 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:

McCain wasn't running his campaign, Rove was.

***************************************************************




Complete and utter Lefty delusion.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, November 8, 2008 1:21 AM

RIVERLOVE


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Here's some figures to go with my post:

NYTimes
A growing number of voters have (said) ... Sarah Palin ... is not qualified to be vice president, weighing down the Republican ticket in the last days of the campaign ...
All told, 59 percent of voters surveyed said Ms. Palin was not prepared for the job, up nine percentage points since the beginning of the month. Nearly a third of voters polled said the vice-presidential selection would be a major factor influencing their vote for president, and those voters broadly favor Senator Barack Obama, the Democratic nominee.
Over all, views of Ms. Palin were apparently shaped more by ideology and party than by gender. Ms. Palin was viewed as unprepared for the job by about 6 in 10 men and women alike. But 8 in 10 Democrats viewed her as unprepared, as well as more than 6 in 10 independents and 3 in 10 Republicans.


Though 7 in 10 repubicans looks like good numbers for Palin, fewer and fewer people identify themselves as repubicans:

PEW Research
In 5,566 interviews with registered voters conducted by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press during the first two months of 2008, 36% identify themselves as Democrats, and just 27% as Republicans.
The share of voters who call themselves Republicans has declined by six points since 2004, and represents, on an annualized basis, the lowest percentage of self-identified Republican voters in 16 years of polling by the Center.


For the record, The NY Times has zero credibility involving anything. I do respect Pew, although I trust Rassmussen the most. They both confirm much of what you summarized. Numbers in the 60-70% range of Republican voters with the opinion that Palin helped the ticket. New numbers looking to the future show her 50+ points ahead of Huckabee, Romney, and the rest of the also-rans of the GOP. What I conclude and feel is that Sarah Palin will only grow in popularity as more and more people are exposed to her in more relaxed interviews and appearances. She is a dynamic force, whether you like her positions or not. Her track record of accomplishment and overcoming setbacks is one of her most endearing qualities. Whether she will be the one to become the new face of the Republican Party is something that will play out on its' own. I believe she will succeed; as of now the RNC has absolutley nothing to stop her. They are all dead men walking anyhow. I don't know if we'll be ready for the 2010 mid-term election, but they better have the whole thing re-vamped and charged up heading into 2012 if there is to be any chance to ever re-take some power in Washington. Something new emerged ths time in the Republican Party, Republican elites. I never really knew they existed. I thought the disparringing comments by elites like George Will and Bill Kristol and a few others were just pre-election panic diatribes by a few, but obviously there is an significant element of the party that must be folded in.

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Saturday, November 8, 2008 3:50 AM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Jack Ryan withdrew from the '04 race, after the sealed records of his '99 divorce from dead sexy Jeri Ryan had become public. Obama ended up runnging against and beating last minute stand in candidate, Alan Keyes.



If it's your position that Obama only won because Ryan pulled out you are far less connected to reality than even I think you are. When Ryan withdrew from the race Obama was already polling with a twenty point lead. Ryan might have been able to make that difference up but it's highly unlikely. Especially given the huge statewide shift away from the Republican party that year and Obama's now well proven ability as a campaigner.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

http://xkcd.com/386/

"Don't worry. Captain Hammer will save us." - Penny.

I has myspace - http://www.myspace.com/daveshayneforpresident

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Saturday, November 8, 2008 3:53 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


DAVESHAYNE -

i was joking.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, November 8, 2008 4:24 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Well, interesting and sorta-related, tis funny...

"RealClearPolitics" *snortgiggle* an unabashed GOP front so initially deceptive they used the name and address of a guy who'd been dead three years as their initial registration info, did their own math and came up with the EXACT SAME CONCLUSION that I've been harping on for weeks now.

And then, it gets better - lays out the EXACT SAME TACTICAL DOCTRINE that I too have been, again, suggesting for weeks now.

Adding to the hilarity is that they even fronted the same "When you're in a hole, STOP DIGGING" analogy that I used to describe the political millstone around the GOPs neck which they chose to lavishly polish instead of cutting loose.

And as much as I hate them, I find in them agreement on concerns both political and economic, and while not sharing in their bitter hatred of the very idea of helping folk out a bit, I DO see the danger looming in entitlement programs cause they're a bandaid treating a symptom instead of working out a cure for the malady.

I been reccommending a conservative bulwark against certain inevitable excesses from the moment I know McCain was going to get soundly plowed under by folk sick to death of eight years of incompetence, betrayal of core tenets and a thin verneer of false conservatism overtop neo-feudalism, cause the implosion of the GOP was inevitable at that point and I happen to be quite thankful it occured non-violently.

And been reaching across the aisle for help only to have my hand bitten, spit on, and slapped away by folks who'd rather act like petulant children angry cause they didn't get their way and willing to see this country run further into ruin out of sheer malicious bitterness...

I find that profoundly disgusting, and frankly unamerican in spirit as well as unworthy behavior in anyone over the age of eight.

Thankfully, the entirety of conservatives have not fallen to the petty and mean spirited hatreds that have consumed much of that end of the political spectrum, and are finally reaching back across the aisle looking for a hand to grab hold of an amplify the strength of a principled message instead of the usual caveman "me boss, you do what I say" bullshit that's been heaved at this end from theirs for eight years.

And much as I can't stand them, much as I really do not care for most of their constituency, I damn well intend to reach back across and lock hands with the few that are willing to rise above all that crap and act like adults, willing to help guide our country down a better path than it's own destruction at the hands of either party.

And if need be, I'll pull em all the way across when their own party sinks into the mire, because we NEED decent conservative folk right now to balance an idealism with realistic financial and ethical limitations.

Here's a clip from their very own editorial...

"House Republicans are now the "last men standing" to fight for conservative values. It is up to us to articulate what a conservative believes and how a conservative behaves. In this, we cannot oppose for opposition's sake, but find the imperative to stand up and fight when we have the better idea for a stronger America.

We cannot hurl stones from our own glass porch. We must address our own manifold lapses in behavior and do more than preach conservatism, we must live it. A decade in the majority led to excesses that must end if Republicans are to earn the trust of our constituents.

The fastest way to reassert our relevance is to focus on the basics. This must start with the size and scope of government and fiscal responsibility. The conservative vision of small government is effective only if that government is simultaneously competent, accountable and responsive.

I suspect that our opportunity for that reassertion will come soon. We owe America a solid plan to avert the impending entitlement tsunami. This is an issue that, if ignored, will dwarf the credit crisis of the last year.

Voters want us to define problems, lay out a way forward, and take action toward the solution. Our philosophy obligates us to bring creative solutions to bear on the entitlement issue, especially when our colleagues will only offer the inevitable waste of an unchecked majority. Entitlement reform is where we can start.

The taxpayer will shortly get the bill for the most expensive congress in history, and without conservative Democrats joining us, we will not have the votes to stop the waste. We cannot allow the funding of bad ideas and worse ideas to hide behind the shield of bipartisanship. We must propose alternative measures in every instance and vote no to wasteful spending every single time. That means many of us will have to cast difficult "nay" votes. In so doing, House Republicans will make sure that when the bill comes due, the taxpayer knows that Republicans aren't responsible for running up the tab.

The voters sent us a message Tuesday night, and we must now heed the words: Go back to basics, stop embarrassing them and ourselves, be true to our principles, and regain the majority by the virtue of our deeds rather than the eloquence of our words."


I might not agree with that 100%, and I KNOW they're a bunch of GOP shills, but good sense and restraint are good ideas regardless of the source, and if they're willing to play that card for damn sure I'll help em get it to the table.

The entire editorial is here.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/realclearpolitics/20081106/cm_rcp/
dont_you_think_the_hole_is_abo;_ylt=AgaCllx5Z4B8DwcgsYD4Jwn9wxIF
(spaced link)

Now if only they could hammer that message into the thick heads of most of their own end of the political spectrum, we might do ok...

And in light of that whole diatribe, because it applies so very well to this situation, and your own recent behavior....

Grow UP, Rap, start acting like an adult, instead of an angry petulant child, which is how you're coming off these days.

You could be an asset to everyone instead of a liability even to your own party and political spectrum, if you'd only try.

And for once, that's NOT a flame, that's downright honest constructive criticism from someone who could really use a hand and sees in you that potential.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Saturday, November 8, 2008 4:57 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Grow UP, Rap, start acting like an adult, instead of an angry petulant child, which is how you're coming off these days.

You could be an asset to everyone instead of a liability even to your own party and political spectrum, if you'd only try.

And for once, that's NOT a flame, that's downright honest constructive criticism from someone who could really use a hand and sees in you that potential.

-Frem




This very well could have used its own thread, but regardless.....

Frem, I totally and whole heartedly reject the notion that I need to 'grow up'. For that atomically implies, by YOUR summation, that my views are childish, and that only by agreeing with YOU am I ever going to " mature and gain wisdom ". What a pile of self gratifying nonsense !

There are very real and legit reasons why many Americans out here are furious with the way the GOP is running its affairs, and it has little to do w/ the fabricated , mock indignation that the Left dreams up as an excuse to vilify the Right, or George Bush.

We're pissed at him too, but not for the same reasons. As I've stated before, those reasons include immigration reform, citizens rights to private property, campaign finance reform, the whole global warming/ cap n trade con game ( for that's TRULY what it is ) , and more recently, the 700 + BILLION $$ bail out, which most agree isn't the answer, and won't even address the bigger issues which caused the financial problems in the 1st place.

You see, it's so simple for the other side to shout " grow up " and try to paint those who really care about America as being " petulant " children , who are merely fussy for the sake of being noisy, in hopes of getting everything their way. It shows a great lack of comprehension on YOUR part, that you're not even taking the time to see what the real issues are for many millions of Americans.

You should note that I replied to your post w/ out firing off one ad hominem and also by laying out specifics of which concern me , while not mocking a single thing you may or may not deem important.






It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, November 8, 2008 5:32 AM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
DAVESHAYNE -

i was joking.



Ah. Usually when people are joking they say something funny. Just something to bear in mind when you next decide to try your hand at humor.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

http://xkcd.com/386/

"Don't worry. Captain Hammer will save us." - Penny.

I has myspace - http://www.myspace.com/daveshayneforpresident

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Saturday, November 8, 2008 5:56 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Oh no, Rap, I was mocking YOU, and quite deservedly in my sole opinion, and really...

Without that slap upside the head, would you actually have taken me seriously ?

And no, I didn't call your VIEWPOINTS childish, but your behavior - as well I never demand anyone agree with me, nor subscribe to my viewpoints, which you'd know if you ever paid attention.
Quote:

mock indignation that the Left dreams up as an excuse

And yet you dismiss the concerns of others simply because they do not agree with YOU, in the very same post ?

Come on man, yes some of it's bullshit, but some of those folk, they got legit gripes and you know it, as do some of your own.

I'll just let that pass since you finally have offered an olive branch, and get down to brass tacks here.

I ain't never gonna like you, and you sure as hell ain't never gonna like me, but we do have some mutual concerns, and now that I've finally heard em, regardless of the tactics used to get to this point, let's work em, right...
Quote:

immigration reform, citizens rights to private property, campaign finance reform, the whole global warming/ cap n trade con game ( for that's TRULY what it is ) , and more recently, the 700 + BILLION $$ bail out, which most agree isn't the answer, and won't even address the bigger issues which caused the financial problems in the 1st place.


Immigration reform, first we need to revisit and if necessary shitcan or re-write the mccarran act, that was hysterical semi-racist bullshit at the time and ain't gotten no better - we need to really streamline the process so that those who WANT to be americans can become so without so many hoops and hurdles it's near impossible to run that gauntlet.

And none of this seven years before paying taxes mess, give them a six month breather to get their feet under them and that's it, just enough to get in a position where they can contribute and compete effectively.

And yes, we need to pay better attention to border security on our southern border, cause for all our overblown security theatre at the airports, what good does that do us if they just hump a bomb over the fence down there, right ?

And finally, tossing illegals out will become less of a problem if we make it so that those who WANT to be americans can get it done, but sure, we're still gonna have a problem here and there, but the only way to fix that is to bust the EMPLOYERS, and fine the living crap out of them, if illegals cannot find anyone to employ them it will substantially discourage the practice.


Citizens rights to private property, hell yes, that imminent domain abuse shit has to go, as well as the truly ludicrous abuse of asset forfeiture provisions, and we really do need to start respecting the fourth amendment as well.

I'd like to hear more of your opinion on what the specific issues of your interest are, however.


Campaign finance reform, well that's an area a little on the raggedy edge of my understanding and competence, I would like to hear a few more details and potential solutions or roads to em to see if we're on the same plane there, sure as shit the current system is corrupt as hell - one thing I WOULD do however is ban ANY involvement of foreign governments in the process, these are OUR elections and concern our country, yanno ?


I dunno about the whole Global Warming thing, you'll notice I do not get involved in that, but not crappin where you live is a good idea and needs no support to stand on it's own legs, as I see it.
I'd certainly rather go for an incentive plan rather than a set of penalties that is far too prone to overuse and abuse, something encouraging rather than discouraging, you see.
It's always better to give a little push than hook up an anchor, but legislating behavior is a tricky thing and nebulous, dangerous ground in the first place - thus I would certainly prefer to tread lightly on it if at all.


And yes, the bailout was a big ball of ridiculous suck, we really need to reduce our dependance on deficit spending and make some cuts - but our financial system is pretty damned corrupt as it is and some ideas from the Conservative end on how to put the brakes on that without sparking disaster would be helpful.
I know for damn sure "everybody always wins" just isn't gonna work on wall street, I might not know shit about economics, but even a grade school education can see THAT is an unsustainable proposition.


And while you didn't mention it, entitlements do concern me a bit, I would rather give someone a JOB rather than a handout, if they will not do it, that's on them, but for example - other than being in decent physical shape and literate, it doesn't take a genius to walk down the street and put the mail in the boxes, does it ?

Why not set up a system to put folks into the workforce while gently encouraging and subsidising a bit of education that will allow them to climb higher and clear the deck for the next person to pull themselves out of poverty ?

That's just an example off the top of my head, mind, shooting from the hip, but it's a good concept, isn't it ?

I would rather work on curing the underlying disorder than slapping a bandaid on a mere symptom, given a choice.

You're welcome to create a thread for this and carry these two posts over, if you like, and will even hold to a mutual cease fire of snark for that thread only - hows that for a square deal, then ?

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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