Hey, I'm no prude, but isn't the porn thing a little out of control here? by chrisisall

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Hey, I'm no prude, but isn't the porn thing a little out of control here?

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Thursday, December 4, 2008 04:10
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 5481
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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 5:11 AM

Used to be you had to have a friend who had access to his older brother's Playboys & Penthouses- now any average 13 year old has crazy access to CRAZY porn 24/7 via the internet...and amateur couples posting their sex vids by the thousands...now TV has to keep up makin' sex scenes a little more graphic & frequent...more & more public officials gettin' caught with hookers...speaking of hookers, those poor girls don't know what to wear anymore now that the teenage fashion industry has co-opted their look...

Welcome to Porn Planet....

Where will it end? What will be the long term effects? Do we WANT it to end?

My son was googling for pictures of baby chickens for a report last year, & before I knew it, he typed in "cute chicks pictures"...well, what came up had nothing to do with birds...

The dirty Chrisisall

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 5:19 AM

You George Soros types, European-envying libertine Liberals want Potterville, you got it. I'm still in Bedford Falls.

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 5:31 AM

It certainly is out of control. It's all over the place, and extremely accessible. All it takes is lying about one's age and there one is, with access to... whatever. Yuk.

I have a 14 year old son. I am worried.

___________________________________________________
High Priestess of Pork and Ag-Related Activities of the MYTHICAL LAND OF IOWA

Click on my profile for my Annoyingly Long List of Firefly Links.

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 5:36 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Its like anything else....

Yes, its out there.

Its probably not good.

But instead of trying to restrict it, teach your children not to look at it.

Raise them right, and this won't be a problem.

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 5:50 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

The internet has made hard core porn very accessible for anyone with an open internet connection. This means that if you are a parent with a computer with internet connection then you must become very adept at knowing how to restrict content and you must be very paranoid about it, especially if you have boys.

As for the hooker thing, that falls into that category of pseudo-degenerating society. Politicians always slept with hookers, they may be getting caught more now and that actually may be dissuading that kind of behavior.

I googled “preteen girl sex” once and everything that I pulled up was sex sites, most of them featuring underage girls. I expected that some of them would be like that, but I didn’t expect all of them. I had to go back and qualify my search with things like “-pedo” and “-nude” to get what I was looking for. The internet is inundated with this stuff to the point that it inhibits reasonable usage.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 5:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Its like anything else....

Yes, its out there.

Its probably not good.

But instead of trying to restrict it, teach your children not to look at it.

Raise them right, and this won't be a problem.

Just curious, Wulfenstar - do you have children yourself?

I am forever amazed at what mine can do, even though we do our level best to "raise them right." Kids are sneaky.

___________________________________________________
High Priestess of Pork and Ag-Related Activities of the MYTHICAL LAND OF IOWA

Click on my profile for my Annoyingly Long List of Firefly Links.

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 6:25 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

And the there was the time when dd was on steroids and very puffed up, so I went online for large-waisted clothes. You can imagine what girls + clothes + XXL brought up!

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 6:26 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Damn, Chris, I thought ya meant here on FFF.net. and I was upset becuz I missed it.

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 6:30 AM

Actually I've been quite in favor of putting that content to a specific, blockable domain, like *.xxx for example.

It only makes sense, you got Gov sites filed under *.gov, schools under *.edu and such - so a sexually oriented business should be classed under it's own specific domain as well.

As to how to accomplish that - best path of action would be working through existing systems and providers and fining or banning violators, ICANN would be most helpful if approached properly.

But you cannot legislate morality, that leads down ugly roads and other than restricting that content to a domain suffix appropriate to it, I would take no other measure.
(For porn, mind you, which is consenting adults, illegal content of this nature is crime evidence, not free speech)

To all things, their proper place.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 6:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:

Politicians always slept with hookers, they may be getting caught more now and that actually may be dissuading that kind of behavior.

Good point.

What about this: When I was in Jr. High, 'hot pants' were in, and the plentiful sight of the leg where the butt just starts drove me crazy.
But if I were a kid TODAY? Hooker-wear central. Pants so low that girls have to shave pubic hair that would otherwise be visible, the endless cleavage & push-up bras, the tight body stockings...Whoah, I'd be in my bunk every hour. How can we expect kids (boychilds) to even pay any attention in school with that kind of hormonal bombardment?

The distracted Chrisisall

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 6:33 AM

THAT, Chris, is a whole nother topic, and one you realllly wouldn't care to get me started on, cause it'll wind up dredging the very darkest sewers of our so-called society that I am far too heartbreakingly familiar with.

-F

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 6:38 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
What about this: When I was in Jr. High, 'hot pants' were in, and the plentiful sight of the leg where the butt just starts drove me crazy.
But if I were a kid TODAY? Hooker-wear central. Pants so low that girls have to shave pubic hair that would otherwise be visible, the endless cleavage & push-up bras, the tight body stockings...Whoah, I'd be in my bunk every hour. How can we expect kids (boychilds) to even pay any attention in school with that kind of hormonal bombardment?

Well, I’m in favor of strict dress codes in public schools, like uniform dress codes. Reducing the impulse for children to be creative with clothing will help to maintain focus on multiple fronts.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 6:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Well, I’m in favor of strict dress codes in public schools, like uniform dress codes. Reducing the impulse for children to be creative with clothing will help to maintain focus on multiple fronts.

I agree...although I wouldn't have as a kid. But if it had been explained to me just as you have here, and not just the 'because it's a RULE' thing, I think I would have understood.

The creative Chrisisall

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 6:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
THAT, Chris, is a whole nother topic, and one you realllly wouldn't care to get me started on, cause it'll wind up dredging the very darkest sewers of our so-called society that I am far too heartbreakingly familiar with.

-F

I can imagine...I was meaning to examine the porn mentality impact on general society, but I'm aware that abuse of children is disgustingly connected to the issue.

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 7:09 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Hey Chris. Sorry Sonisall had to witness that episode. I hope he's ok. Stuff like that can be disturbing (depends on the content of course) but still. Hope it wasn't too shocking.

Well it may very well be out of control but then I seem to remember my folks thought it was all out of control when I was young and impressionable, and yet they were youths in the very era that made all that kind of thing 'Groovy' and that had my grandparents worry about them and what they were subjected to. It's a merry-go-round. Best any of us can do is to make kids aware of things and talk to them about stuff. Nothing worse than a young mind suddenly being subjected to some very shocking imagery out of nowhere. Kids have to be protected but not overly protected or else it's all that much more shocking when they come across these things.

I have to say though it's a media thing. Stuff like this is both frowned upon then celebrated. It's twisted. Look at Paris Hilton. First off she is dragged through the coals for her sex tape and then not soon after she's all over the place. Chat show's, perfumes, TV, films and bizarrely she ends up becoming the modern voice of young women?! (And what of the bloke in that vid? How come he isn't seeing the rougher side of notoriety? Strange!) I wish the media woud just make up it's mind. It's either for her or against her, but this double standard thing only confusses.

-- Which is why it's imperative for parents to talk to their kids and assure them enough so that children won't rely on the media for guidance.--

Now we're seeing all manner of these sex tapes spring up. Are they really all leaked? Maybe I'm just cynical but seems like these things are engineered just for the notoriety and subsequent fame it brings...

Seems to be there's a confussion that porn is sex, and folk have lost sight of what sex actually means anymore.

As for the way girls dress - That's a touchy subject, as you said hot pants were all the rage once and really didn't leave much to the imagination either, but I remember girls in the 80's dressing like Madonna and she was essence of 'hooker-chic' back then, so what ya gonna do.... All I know is if Calvin Klien bring out tight fitting underwear that displays some kind of 'bollock' cleavage were in trouble!!! and I'll be bound for outer space for sure!!

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 7:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Its like anything else....

Yes, its out there.

Its probably not good.

But instead of trying to restrict it, teach your children not to look at it.

Raise them right, and this won't be a problem.

Here, you and I completely agree.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 7:49 AM

I find it funny that many sites don't even ask for age verification these days. Even the Pepsi Points spot asked for age verification. Is licensing more important than the morality issues of general society?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The country is making a big mistake not teaching kids to cook and raise a garden and build fires.
-Loretta Lynn

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 8:18 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I think it's a result of our 'as long as it makes a profit, it's good' mentality. But that's what happens when you let your economic agenda dominate your social agenda, rather than the other way around.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 8:51 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:

I googled “preteen girl sex” once and everything that I pulled up was sex sites, most of them featuring underage girls. I expected that some of them would be like that, but I didn’t expect all of them. I had to go back and qualify my search with things like “-pedo” and “-nude” to get what I was looking for. The internet is inundated with this stuff to the point that it inhibits reasonable usage.

Is anyone else just a little freaked out by this admission?

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 8:52 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

How can we expect kids (boychilds) to even pay any attention in school with that kind of hormonal bombardment?

By teaching them abstinence-only?

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 8:54 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Finn probably wanted to do statistics on preteen girls and the current mores of the times. If you are raising girls, it might be helpful to know these things. OTOH it does refute the claim that parents alone raise children and society at large has no role.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 9:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:

I googled “preteen girl sex” once and everything that I pulled up was sex sites, most of them featuring underage girls. I expected that some of them would be like that, but I didn’t expect all of them. I had to go back and qualify my search with things like “-pedo” and “-nude” to get what I was looking for. The internet is inundated with this stuff to the point that it inhibits reasonable usage.

Is anyone else just a little freaked out by this admission?

Yes!
You type something like that and the Vice Squad should automatically come to your house with a warrant, preferably dropping out of a helicopter and smashing through your window in full SWAT gear.
Reminds me of when Pete Townsend got into a bit of trouble for "researching" kiddie porn sites on his computer.

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 9:02 AM

I think part pf the problem still lies in the Puritanical side of this country. A nipple is still a big deal here, elsewhere, you see them in soap commercials and no one bats an eye, or is scarred by it.

I still don't understand how so many parents are okay with their kids viewing incredibly violent material, but freak out when their kids see something that every human being does.

Not that I'm saying we need to sexualize things even more. We just need to stop acting like it's dirty. Kids, and humans in general, will always be drawn to forbidden fruit.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 9:11 AM

I am rather viciously against uniforms in school.

Not only does it set up and protect a monopoly, thus making $24 worth of clothes cost $180, but also it is harmful to the mental and social development of children and a throwback to the idiocy of sumptuary law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumptuary_law

Now, dress codes, that's iffy - some folk might recall us students had the next best thing to a guerilla war going on over that issue when after losing fair and square to our student government, our school dissolved it and then rammed it through anyways.

We were ok with most of it, but some things were ridiculous overkill and not thought through in advance, no shorts ? in summer, during PE ?

They accidently taught us how things REALLY work, for all their lip service to the contrary, and we did fight back and win, but part of the deal involving the restitution of the student government and the dress code agreed to by BOTH parties, was the expulsion on trumped up BS of the two primary motivators, me and Roger.

The only way I would be ok with school uniforms is if the student government takes a vote and agrees with the idea, and the students themselves are allowed and encouraged to participate in the selection and design thereof.

That makes it something they would then wear as a statement of pride and solidarity with their educational institution, rather than a prisoners colors forced on them by the warden.

Do you understand this principle ?

Cause it's the very root and core of my opposition to school uniforms and dress codes - the lack of, and explicit removal of, any student input on the topic, which is as backwards, stupid and barbaric as beating your wife, children should be seen and not heard, and all that lameass shit we should have grown out of by now.

The assumption of stupidity and incompetence will offend just about ANYONE it's directed at, and children/teens are no exception, and it starts and/or widens a pre-existing rift by setting an adversarial relationship that leads directly to deeper social ills over time.

And I take specific and explicit offense to this statement.

Quote:
Reducing the impulse for children to be creative with clothing will help to maintain focus on multiple fronts.

Cause in practice it's DAMNED close to this one.

Quote:
Reducing the impulse for children to be creative will help to maintain focus on multiple fronts.

And that is something I will fight against to the very last breath within me.

Which leads into Rue's well placed commentary there, cause by encouraging them to THINK FOR THEMSELVES at an early age, allows some defense against the corp-consumer culture hoisted upon them at every turn and corner in our current society.

If you treat children as chattel, enemies or prisoners, don't be surprised when that is what they grow up to be.

Treat them as human beings, adults in training, guide their steps instead of dragging them by force, and you'll have allies, intelligent and creative ones with a strong sense of their own morals - instead of foes that hate and despise you and all you stand for cause it's kicked them in the teeth for nearly twenty years.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 9:13 AM

Quote:
I still don't understand how so many parents are okay with their kids viewing incredibly violent material, but freak out when their kids see something that every human being does.

Not that I'm saying we need to sexualize things even more. We just need to stop acting like it's dirty. Kids, and humans in general, will always be drawn to forbidden fruit.

That I can agree with.

Always thought it odd that murder and mayhem are ok, but a little slap and tickle are so evil ?

Preposterous!

-F

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 9:15 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Not that I'm saying we need to sexualize things even more. We just need to stop acting like it's dirty."

And we need to stop acting like it's a commodity.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 9:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:

And we need to stop acting like it's a commodity.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

Good point. It's a pretty messed up society we live in where the very act provides for the continuance of the species is treated as taboo - AND used as the main marketing tool in our culture. No wonder kids are so screwed up.

On the subject of school uniforms/dress codes - I fully support dress codes. Uniforms are a stickier subject - I'm not totally opposed, but I do recognize the drawbacks. The stifling of creativity and individuality being my main issues with the notion.

But dress codes, I view as absolutely nessesary. I teach High School, so I regularly see some of the things kids try to wear to school. I think it's more than possible for a student to express their individuality without showing 5 inches of cleavage or their ass cheek.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 9:25 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

I agree with StoryMark. Completely.
I also think the domain suffix of Frem's is a good idea.
And you can't shield your kids, you can't be with them all the time. And yes, kids are sneaky. All you can do is do your best. Talk to them about sex before they get their education from the internet. Most especially, I think the emotional implications should be discussed. It's something very few people talk about, it's mostly left at "You shouldn't have sex before you're married" or a similar message, and that, my friends, is not going to stop anyone. "You shouldn't have sex until you're in a loving and committed relationship where you truly trust the other person, because it's likely to cause an upwelling of emotions you might not expect if I didn't tell you this now. Once you're through puberty, you'll have encountered those kinds of emotions and be better prepared to deal with them. It's important not to listen only to your natural urges, but also to your heart." is a much better outline of it, IMO. It worked for me.
I consider dress codes a decent idea, but uniforms shouldn't be forced upon anyone who doesn't want to wear them.
Also, Chris, I googled "cute chicks pictures" and found plenty of baby animals and a few shots of cleavage. Why you gotta make me think I'll find a lot of hawtness that way?

[/sig]

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 9:31 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I think the biggest message we need to teach our kids about sex is - if you don't feel like you can say no, if you don't feel like you can discuss pregnancy, disease and condoms, if you don't feel like you have the right to protect yourself - you're not in the right relationship and you're not ready.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 9:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:

I googled “preteen girl sex” once and everything that I pulled up was sex sites, most of them featuring underage girls. I expected that some of them would be like that, but I didn’t expect all of them. I had to go back and qualify my search with things like “-pedo” and “-nude” to get what I was looking for. The internet is inundated with this stuff to the point that it inhibits reasonable usage.

Is anyone else just a little freaked out by this admission?

Yeah. When I read that, I muttered "Woah dude ..." to myself. That was a pretty weird thing to post.

------------------------------

What sane person could live in this world and not be crazy?

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 9:45 AM

PR, indeed.

In fact not so long ago I *HAD* to have that conversation with my niece cause her schools entire "education" consisted of a 15 minute vid mostly consisting of "this is sex, it's bad, don't do it."

In fact, the same one (it's the same school) which they foisted on me which left me no choice but theft and subterfuge to find out the FACTS of the matter so I did not wind up with any of the 'problems' my schoolmates were finding themselves cursed with, like STDs or unplanned pregnancies.

My concern is that lacking her uncles violent nature, and being as a rule unwilling to do harm to other persons, her defensive options against unruly boys are quite limited.

Soon as it's legal for her to possess, that girl's gettin a cattle prod for her B-day.

Nothin says "NO" like 12,000 volts.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 9:50 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I googled “preteen girl sex” once and everything that I pulled up was sex sites, most of them featuring underage girls.... The internet is inundated with this stuff to the point that it inhibits reasonable usage.

I can think of lots of reasons that someone might google a phrase like that...

"preteen + girl + sex ... + incidence"
"... + warning signs"
"... + prevention"

Y'all- get your heads outta the gutter!

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 11:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Hey Chris. Sorry Sonisall had to witness that episode. I hope he's ok.

I was on it so fast he didn't even get to see it (It's good to have Kung-Fu reflexes!

)
He still goes yuck when Indy kisses a woman...

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 11:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:

Also, Chris, I googled "cute chicks pictures" and found plenty of baby animals and a few shots of cleavage. Why you gotta make me think I'll find a lot of hawtness that way?

Last year it got actual chicks as well, but the MAJORITY seemed to be nudes & bikini shots sites...
I closed the window so fast I might have thought I saw more than I did, though.

The quantum Chrisisall

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 11:16 AM

On the topic of dangerous googling...

The other day, I was helping a student work on an assignment, for which he had to include pictures to represent each of his vocabulary words, all from the book "Of Mice and Men". One of the words was "greyback", which at the time of the novel was slang for lice.

So, he punches in "lice".

First picture was of a rather large male member, covered in lice.

Ewwwwwwwwwww.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 11:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
It's a pretty messed up society we live in where the very act provides for the continuance of the species is treated as taboo - AND used as the main marketing tool in our culture. No wonder kids are so screwed up.

Sex is natural, and I'll tell my kid straight out when asked. I'll also tell him that too much sugar can cause diabetic shock, if you take my meaning.

The cautionary Chrisisall

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 11:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

And I take specific and explicit offense to this statement.
Quote:
Reducing the impulse for children to be creative with clothing will help to maintain focus on multiple fronts.

Cause in practice it's DAMNED close to this one.
Quote:
Reducing the impulse for children to be creative will help to maintain focus on multiple fronts.

And that is something I will fight against to the very last breath within me.

Okay, I take dress codes to mean wearing clothes that aren't MEANT to show off erogenous zones. That's all. And no curse words on tee shirts, maybe.

The limited Chrisisall

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 11:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

How can we expect kids (boychilds) to even pay any attention in school with that kind of hormonal bombardment?

By teaching them abstinence-only?

AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
*CHOKE*
BWAHAHA.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 11:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

Okay, I take dress codes to mean wearing clothes that aren't MEANT to show off erogenous zones. That's all. And no curse words on tee shirts, maybe.

The dress code at my school consists of:

No shirts with bad language/sex/drug or alcohol (though there are a few "Bob Marley taking a toke" shirts that slip through).

Skirts and shorts must come down to 2 inches above the knee.

No gang-related clothing.

No tank tops on boys (I think this is mainly to spare us the smell).

Sleeveless shirts are okay for girls, as long as the straps/shoulders are at least 2 fingers wide.

No blatant cleavage (this is the fuzziest of our rules - and the most frequently violated).

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 12:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Its like anything else....

Yes, its out there.

Its probably not good.

But instead of trying to restrict it, teach your children not to look at it.

Raise them right, and this won't be a problem.

Cool, we agree on something!

Talk to your kids, use software to limit what they can view on the net.

When you drive with your children, you put a seatbelt on them, you don't expect everyone else not to drive while you are on the road with them. Porn is fun (provided it's consentual adults) and the web is an obvious place for producers and consumers to meet.

Though that .xxx thing sounds very efficient.

As for uniforms, I would have loved them. It would have actually allowed me to be creative and more carefree, without worrying about whether my choice of clothes would affect how others treat me in school.

Teenagers in large numbers aren't generally a confident, embracing crowd. They can be vicious to those they deem weaker or different (because they are scared of being weak and different) and clothes are such an obvious, superficial and easy thing to focus on.

A little bit of supeficial equality probably wouldn't hurt their creativity overtly much. Might even encourage them to more be creative about other things than physical appearance.

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 12:57 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I googled “preteen girl sex” once and everything that I pulled up was sex sites, most of them featuring underage girls. I expected that some of them would be like that, but I didn’t expect all of them. I had to go back and qualify my search with things like “-pedo” and “-nude” to get what I was looking for. The internet is inundated with this stuff to the point that it inhibits reasonable usage.
Is anyone else just a little freaked out by this admission?

Puritan much?

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 12:58 PM

See, Storymark, that's perfectly reasonable.

I never saw why heavy metal T-shirts were verboten cause the school seemed to think heavy metal = violence, now I could understand if the CONTENT of the shirt was violent, but that was not the case.

Nor were my biker/harley T-shirts allowed, at least till my mother rode HER bike down there and made a little issue out of it, cause she bought them for me in the first place.

Or the fact that my glasses, which I *need* to see the damn blackboard, were photogreys because I happen to be light-sensitive, and thus caused a bit of a furor over "No sunglasses".
http://www.allaboutvision.com/lenses/photochromic.htm

Or the fact that Raiders jackets were considered gang-related in spite of every other teams fanwear being acceptable.

Most of it honestly seemed (and still does, as my niece goes to this school) to be some manner of powertripping by the school officials and had little or nothing to do with good sense at all.

Of course me being me, it did not help matters when I laid into an upper level school board official for smoking a pipe in the hallway and office, as if policy didn't apply to him - nor busting the chops of the assistant administrator over what had to be the ugliest tie I'd ever seen, but then again that was *during* a pointed suggestion that his behavior towards a female student was rather inappropriate.

Funny thing is, if one actually communicated with these kids instead of treating them as livestock, this stuff could easily be hammered out and sensible policies not only enacted, but enacted with the willing support of the student body itself.

Oh, and since when has the phrase "I am not a pet, I am a person, please treat me like one." qualified as "insubordinate behavior" ?

-F

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 1:07 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
I googled “preteen girl sex” once and everything that I pulled up was sex sites, most of them featuring underage girls.... The internet is inundated with this stuff to the point that it inhibits reasonable usage.
I can think of lots of reasons that someone might google a phrase like that...

"preteen + girl + sex ... + incidence"
"... + warning signs"
"... + prevention"

Y'all- get your heads outta the gutter!

Thank you.

And incidentally, I was looking for the prevalence of sexual activity among preteen girls, which I found to be disturbingly high. The greatest risk is from a family member or older boys at school forcing girls into sexual activity, and what concerns me the most is that it always occurs without parental knowledge, and sometimes right under the parents’ noses. On rarer occasions young girls will explore voluntarily, but this too is often instigated by discussion with older men or women, often on the internet. In any case, none of it is healthy.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 1:19 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Originally posted by chrisisall:

Quote:
He still goes yuck when Indy kisses a woman...

Ha - How wonderful. I Remember thinking like that. Man was I an idiot!!!

Anyway - I'm going against uniforms and or dress codes because I went to a school that insisted on them, not only during school hours but also out of school up until you were home. This seems like nothing in particular but up until I was 13 I had to wear shorts to school . Even in winter, unless you were a prefect - the giddy heights of which I never reached, or aspired to... So I spent most of my years between 8-13 freezing cold! To add insult to injury I had previously spent the ages of 3-8 in Paraguay (hot, warm comfortable South America Paraguay ahhhhhh)

Then we came to FREEZING COLD ENGLAND and I was having to WALK 3 miles to school in the WINTER in SHORTS!!!! (Damn you do that these days you'd be up for abuse!!!

Now I know what you're all saying about dress codes, and for sure you'd maybe appease certain hormones prevalent in a particular age group - and given a warm country with a nice even tempered climate it's a whizzo idea!.... But in England it aint! It's frikkin painful and I remember many a fight/squabble breaking out amoungst us unthawed youngsters as we battled for prime real estate near the radiators(heaters) in a classroom. Moods were miserable, focus was dulled and tempers short.

The real kick in the teeth though was that this school was housed within an ancient building where the radiators were rarely switched on. Yet we'd cling in hope that at some stage in our sub zero education we'd be privy to a modicum of heat. How wrong we were.

Anyway what are we saying that wearing a school uniform stops porn on the internet? Seems to me a large percentage of porn caters for just that perversion - SCHOOL UNIFORMS.

what a strange world....

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 1:38 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
I googled “preteen girl sex” once and everything that I pulled up was sex sites, most of them featuring underage girls.... The internet is inundated with this stuff to the point that it inhibits reasonable usage.
I can think of lots of reasons that someone might google a phrase like that...

"preteen + girl + sex ... + incidence"
"... + warning signs"
"... + prevention"

Y'all- get your heads outta the gutter!
Thank you.

And incidentally, I was looking for the prevalence of sexual activity among preteen girls, which I found to be disturbingly high. The greatest risk is from a family member or older boys at school forcing girls into sexual activity, and what concerns me the most is that it always occurs without parental knowledge, and sometimes right under the parents’ noses. On rarer occasions young girls will explore voluntarily, but this too is often instigated by discussion with older men or women, often on the internet. In any case, none of it is healthy.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

Ah - thanks for clarifying that. I suspected that there might be a legitimate reason for your search, but it's still not something you can really be comfortable talking about, simply because of the associations it brings with it.

Put it this way - it's the kind of search that would, at the very least, get you fired from many, many jobs, just by appearing in your search history.

I'm far from a puritan, but there are words I absolutely refuse to put together in a Google search, simply because I'm sure that it's going to return some unsettling stuff.

As I was reading your post, I was kind of going, "WHAT?! IS HE INSANE?!" Makes sense now, though.

But that's the kind of country we live in, where an innocent thing can be seen as something quite the opposite...

Mike

PS: I'd be remiss if I didn't admit that it also gave me a great chance to needle you a bit. I don't think it came across that way, though, as this is a pretty touchy subject. No harm intended, just snarky good fun!

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 8:36 PM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
As for uniforms, I would have loved them. It would have actually allowed me to be creative and more carefree, without worrying about whether my choice of clothes would affect how others treat me in school.

Teenagers in large numbers aren't generally a confident, embracing crowd. They can be vicious to those they deem weaker or different (because they are scared of being weak and different) and clothes are such an obvious, superficial and easy thing to focus on.

Please. Unless the uniform went right down to the shoes and accessories, as well as hairstyle, there would always be something to judge. And if the clothes and hair couldn't be judged, something would be. Eye color. Height. Glasses. Braces. Hell, the name someone is given by their parents. Later, of course, cars.
Saying uniforms would eliminate superficial judgements is like saying a well-paved road will eliminate accidents. You can't thwart human stupidity and/or cruelty with such, if you will, superficial solutions. Addressing the heart of the matter, in all things, is the challenge and the key.

[/sig]

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 9:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
As for uniforms, I would have loved them. It would have actually allowed me to be creative and more carefree, without worrying about whether my choice of clothes would affect how others treat me in school.

Teenagers in large numbers aren't generally a confident, embracing crowd. They can be vicious to those they deem weaker or different (because they are scared of being weak and different) and clothes are such an obvious, superficial and easy thing to focus on.

Please. Unless the uniform went right down to the shoes and accessories, as well as hairstyle, there would always be something to judge. And if the clothes and hair couldn't be judged, something would be. Eye color. Height. Glasses. Braces. Hell, the name someone is given by their parents. Later, of course, cars.
Saying uniforms would eliminate superficial judgements is like saying a well-paved road will eliminate accidents. You can't thwart human stupidity and/or cruelty with such, if you will, superficial solutions. Addressing the heart of the matter, in all things, is the challenge and the key.

I'm not saying all such superficial judgment would have been eliminated. Nor should all kids look the same, God forbid.

But a decent chunk of it might have been focused on other things, still. Especially on things less dependent on how much money their parents make or whether they can color-coordinate.

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 9:55 PM

I don't think the current popular culture has much to do with porn. More like it has to do with the advertising agencies knowing that sex sells, and then applying that where it ought not be applied more and more. On top of that is of course, no-one (or very very few) calling them on it because it happened so slowly that people acclimatised to it. And now no-one pays attention now, as well, because the only people that do complain are the nutters. Well, at least the loud ones that get noticed.

*sigh*

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 10:01 PM

I've long thought that the heterosexual obsession with sex had a lot to do with the whole peek-a-boo schizophrenia our culture pushes. Look at your average gay kid, he or she will be forced by circumstances to see the object of his or her affection fully nude in the school locker room and shower. But rather than becoming helpless sex fiends they grow up being a lot more sexually self-aware than your average straight kid.

So, I don't know that forcing children to cover up at school really helps 'em at all. I mean, seriously, devout Muslims have the same idea with the veil and the burqa. Sexual self-control should not be dependent on clothing, it needs to be internalized, that is, taught.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 11:01 PM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

You make an excellent point, Cavalier. It is, as I said, all about the heart of the matter

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Especially on things less dependent on how much money their parents make...

Shoes. Accessories. Hair.
Snobs find each other. They have ways. Radar or something. I'm sorry, I'm not meaning to attack you here at all, but thinking otherwise seems very much like hopeful naivete to me. I've done some research on this sort of thing, and I also have my own encounters with snobbery to draw upon. The cause of the snobbery is what needs to be addressed, not the effect once it's in full swing. This is true in all forms of health, be it that of the body or the society as a whole.

[/sig]

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