Fighting Back by Wulfenstar

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Of Course you wouldn't Story...

Heres another:

http://blog.wired.com/sterling/2007/12/burning-british.html

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Friday, December 5, 2008 8:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
I've got not one objection to speed limits, or traffic cams,

Destroy All Cameras!

Sounds like a good Godzilla movie

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, December 5, 2008 8:35 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

My goodness. I don't know what the laws in England are like, but one would think they could get a vote on these things.

In any event, burning the machines seems as over-the-top as axing them.

If I felt compelled to disable these cameras, I think I'd manage it with a can of spray paint.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, December 5, 2008 8:53 AM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

I have libertarian friends who espouse these kinds of things. I'm not on that train.

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Friday, December 5, 2008 8:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
I'm not on that train.

What? You wait & it don't come?

The confused Chrisisall

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Friday, December 5, 2008 9:09 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

No, hes just trying to cover his ass, if the jackboots try and "railroad" anyone for speaking out against them.

Heres another:

http://www.flexyourrights.org/

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Friday, December 5, 2008 9:17 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

We had some security cameras installed where I work. They were supposed to be secret - no notice was given, they were installed on the QT over the weekend, in what was supposed to be out-of-the-way obscure locations ...

Of course it was the first thing the very bright people I am privileged to work with noticed the next workday. Hmmm --- what's this video line doing among all my other lines ? Lookee that. Which lead to an Easter-egg type game to look for the rest.

We had a big laugh over them. We were saying - how about taking a picture from the camera's POV and pasting it over the lens - except have it be out of focus and askew. Or, include a person in the picture so it looks like they haven't moved for days. Or, paste a series of little smiley faces over the camera in slightly different position every time so when you run the tape it looks like they’re bouncing up and down. Or ...

There are all sorts of fun things you can do with a video camera (apologies to Rob Lowe).

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, December 5, 2008 11:32 AM

Actually Anthony, most of england is set to abandon them, they do not whatever improve safety and are also often misused in conjunction with artificially low speed limits or deliberately mistimed lights as a profit maker - to which folks did indeed respond with sabotage, which I take a neutral position on given the abuses and decreases in safety they've lead to.

-F

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Friday, December 5, 2008 11:38 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Of Course you wouldn't Story...

Allright, what so bad about them?

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, December 5, 2008 12:34 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Austin is set to junk their brand new red-light cameras, and Dallas has filed suit against the company that installs and operates them, because it turns out they aren't certified to do so, apparently. Judges are throwing those tickets out en masse in their courtrooms.

My main gripe with them is that they just seem a bit... I guess "dishonest" is the best word I can find... If I'm going to put in the effort to speed or run a light, the least the police department can do is put in the effort to have an officer pull me over and give me a ticket.

Plus, there's really no way to fight these tickets. You're supposed to be able to go to court and plead Not Guilty and get a fair trial, including the ability to cross-examine the officer issuing the ticket - but how do you call a camera into court, and how do you question it?

PLUS, these things aren't owned, operated, or monitored by the police departments. They're contracted out to private companies to be run for profit. The P.D. gets a cut of the money, and once you start law-enforcement-for-profit, it tends to put bottom-line revenue ahead of actual crime prevention, or even above ethical bahavior. Several of the cameral locations have been found to have "shorted" the yellow light intervals, some from four seconds down to two, in order to MAKE SURE that people are running the red lights. If it was REALLY about getting people to stop running them, they'd put up a big sign telling you there's a camera (some places have signs, others don't), and they'd actually LENGTHEN the yellow light by a second or two. As it stands, in most places, if any part of your car fails to clear the intersection when the light goes from yellow to red, you're mailed a ticket.

PLUS, it's not the driver who gets the ticket, the fine, and the mark on his driving record - it's the vehicle's owner. So if you lend your buddy your car and he runs a light, you get the ticket and the points on your license.

PLUS, in many places, this is never put up for a vote. It's done behind the scenes, and you're told about it afterward.

That's why I don't really mind all that much when someone axes one, or lights it up, or paints over its lens shields, or what have you. Not that I'm condoning such behavior, but I certainly understand where the impulse comes from.

For the record, I don't as a rule run red lights - but I HAVE been stuck at a few that wouldn't "trip", and after sitting there for 5 minutes with not another car in sight, I've simply gone on my way. If there were a camera there, my bet is that it would send me a ticket, regardless whether the lights were malfunctioning or not. And given that this is a for-profit enterprise, I bet money that any record of the lights malfunctioning would just happen to "get lost" in the records room before I could try to fight the ticket in court.

If I'm speeding and get a ticket, I pay it. If I run a red light, I'll pay (never been ticketed for that offense, but I s'pose anything's possible.) I *have* actually run a red light in the rain, when the light changed and I hit my brakes, but the tires locked up and I started to slide. I let up and gassed it through the light, right in front of a cop. He pulled me over and asked what happened, so I explained it to him. He said he'd noticed that I tried to stop and started to skid, and let me go. I wasn't going fast, but it had just started to rain, the the streets were as slick as ice, so I *was* going too fast for the conditions, even though I was well under the speed limit at the time. A camera wouldn't have cut me that break, or even noticed that I tried to stop and then tried to avoid an accident. Cameras don't do "mitigating circumstances", where cops often will.

So those are my basic complaints with speed and red-light cameras...

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Friday, December 5, 2008 12:39 PM

STORYMARK

Some good points, particularly on the issue of law enforcement as a commodity. Seems a lot of the problem could be solved by a reworking of how they are used.

As for the idea of the Police having to pull a driver over themselves, i can't agree there. I'd much rather Police focused on actual crime. If it can be handled fairly, I'd prefer the piddly stuff be handled by auromation.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, December 5, 2008 12:45 PM

ERIC

Read a story once, probly on this forum, about a guy who got a ticket from one of those things accompanied by a photo of his car at the intersection. He responded by returning the enclosed payment envelope with a photo of cash equal to the fine. He later then received a photo of a pair of handcuffs from the police department. So then he sent in the actual money.

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Friday, December 5, 2008 1:41 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Quote:
PLUS, it's not the driver who gets the ticket, the fine, and the mark on his driving record - it's the vehicle's owner. So if you lend your buddy your car and he runs a light, you get the ticket and the points on your license.

Where I live, if the person in the picture doesn't match the registered owner, no one gets a ticket (or so I've been told). It's why my mom primarily drives the car that's registered in my dad's name, and vice versa.

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Saturday, December 6, 2008 3:35 PM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

http://www.reason.com/blog/show/130429.html?success=1

If its true, its another good example of how to fight back against the jackboots at a local level without having to fire a shot..

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Saturday, December 6, 2008 8:01 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
http://www.reason.com/blog/show/130429.html?success=1

If its true, its another good example of how to fight back against the jackboots at a local level without having to fire a shot..

That's a pretty freaking sweet sting they pulled on the cops. Funny as hell, and it'll be interesting to see how much press this gets. In Odessa, my bet is "not much".

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Sunday, December 7, 2008 7:56 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Another good example:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ildwrFjwHYjvJPX2edZg
BnNb8EEQD94TID980

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Sunday, December 7, 2008 8:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

That's a pretty freaking sweet sting they pulled on the cops.

That's the definition of corruption, IMO. I'd so fire everyone that showed up to arrest those Christmas trees.

The busting Chrisisall

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Sunday, December 7, 2008 8:54 AM

In all honesty, the best way to actively fight back for maximum effect and low risk, is simple.

DO NOT COMPLY.

That's all there is to it, don't play ball, and encourage others to follow that example.

Without anyone to follow their dumbass orders, they're just another loudmouth idiot in a world chock full of them.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Sunday, December 7, 2008 9:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
In all honesty, the best way to actively fight back for maximum effect and low risk, is simple.

DO NOT COMPLY.

Once in court for a bogus traffic ticket, they handcuffed me for, er, politely answering the Judge's questions in a manner too truthful for his sensibilities (I cited the precise traffic code that allowed me to pass on the right on a two lane highway), I could have easily kept the cuffs off (Those court guys were all fat & out of shape N' s**t), but somehow I got the feeling that it would escalate into something that would require jail time & other unpleasantries.

How not to comply in that sit, Frem?

The query-filled Chrisisall

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Sunday, December 7, 2008 2:08 PM

Depends on how far you wanna take it, Chris.

Me, I wouldn't have let them cuff me, but then I have a lawyer who would have steamrollered them for even trying in that situation, since resisting a false arrest is a civic duty.
But that presumes one is willing to ante their very life as part of the bet, which isn't most folk.

Alternatively, you could sandbag it, go deadweight-limp on the spot and verbally state that if not allowed to present your case without being assaulted and threatened, then you have no choice but to refuse compliance, apologise and then refuse to budge.

Any halfway decent lawyer would roast them easily on that one, a Judges ego does not trump the law no matter how much they think it does.

Been there, done that, I've never had a contempt citation stick save for one that I actually agreed was deserved, and that was for decking a public defender who attempted to enter a guilty plea (thus stickin it to me for 2yrs in min security) in a case I wasn't gonna plead to cause it was self-defense, which was indeed the verdict.

One thing they CANNOT do, if you are serving as your own attorney and have not acted out of order, is lay hands on you till the case is judged, because that's just the same as doing so to your lawyer while he's acting in your defense, how well do you think that would sit with a jury, eh ?

Been there, done that too - got told by the court officials of that pissant indiana town NOT to dare bring a lawyer to the hearing or they'd arrest him too, this after mailing the notice of hearing three days AFTER the date (by the postmark) and pencilling a new date on the form, as a dodge cause the original charges were so flimsy they wanted to try hitting me with a bench warrant when I showed so I'd have an "unfortunate accident" while in custody...

And all that for a non-crime that didn't actually occur, during a time frame while I was at a convention in Michigan with 80-some odd witnesses, and all cause my ex's mother was angry and friends with a Judge.

My answer to that was to refuse to show up, and present the matter to the local Sheriff, who's jurisdiction is in part to protect the folk under his care from exactly that type of shit.
He knew it was bullshit when they tried to push it as Felony Battery with no medical report, and then tried to re-issue the warrant for a lesser crime when called on it, and the postmarked envelope didn't help their case at all.

Also you might not wanna ask me stuff like this right now, see...

I'm actually pretty POed at the local PD for trying to set other cops on me today by calling in a domestic disturbance followed by shots fired at my home - figuring to start a fight, cause I had the audacity to have the bastards drug tested, most of em failed, and then I got the FOP rep on tape threatening me...

Oh, did I mention I was having lunch with someone from the county Sheriffs dept at the time, who, when the call came over 911, had it shitcanned before anything came of it - then we got to the phone and secured it, and got some niiiice prints off it (it's the payphone nearest the local PD, of course) including a near perfect right thumb.

While I've no proof yet it was one of the local cops, it's a pretty sure bet, and he was right convincing, but then, lying like a bitch is 80% of a cops job when it comes right down to it.

I think their whole little pissant department is redundant anyways, and would rather budget extra officers from the Sheriffs dept than this pack of badge wearing criminals, and if I do that, imma auction that goddamned sports car of theirs first thing.

I'm sorely pissed, and I've a right to be, given they actively tried to cause a firefight at my home.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Sunday, December 7, 2008 2:28 PM

Oh, yeah, and as a topper - you recall me tellin ya that one of my best allies is a former catholic nun ?

Well, according to the MD State Police, she's a "terrorist"...

Spying on pacifists, environmentalists and nuns
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/middleeast/la-na-cop-spy
7-2008dec07,0,4545082,full.story

I find that downright seriously offensive, I do.

The real criminals are easy to find, just look for the Badges.

-AngryashellFrem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Sunday, December 7, 2008 2:40 PM

God DAMN Frem, your life is a WHOLE LOT more interestingn' mine is...who do I have to thank for that I wonder...?

You're a soldier in the trenches man, as surely as if you were serving on active in Iraq, and I salute you for it, sincerely.

The little fish Chrisisall

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Sunday, December 7, 2008 4:35 PM

Chris, not to shower on the notion (much, ok a lot, but listen, really)...

But beware the Chinese Curse - interesting times do not a happy life make.

In fact I find myself almost in as bad a position as Gelt, the townies have not a clue, and I dare not ever show my "real" personage since some of the dark deeds done in those names are still well within the statue of limitation for prosecution.

And really, what have I to show for it ?

Poor, when selling out and/or exploiting the weak would have made me well off if not wealthy, suffering from a severe, chronic case of PTSD that cannot be treated due to a lack of trust in big pharma and the fact that as mandated reporters, I could never tell them enough to make them of any use to me - so badly damaged that I spend 3 days of the week on average in a wheelchair, prettymuch untrusted and disliked if not outright despised even by many of my allies and rescuees, watching an almost decades long relationship crumble to bits and watching almost helplessly as society and the school system grind away on my nieces hoping to "cure" them of the dangerous curse of thinking like me, planning to railroad them right into the same hellcamps I been fightin all my life.

And now I got the headache of trying to help run affairs by a set of rules so unwelcome in our current society that it's worth trying to get me killed over, cause yanno, other than quietly refusing to oppose it, I don't see a lotta support or help from the locals - who've assumed it's in good hands and gone right back to sleep, which'd tempt someone less jackass stubborn than me, it would - and when *this* particular bomb drops combined with the fact that I have moved AWAY, thus making me technically ineligable for the job, I figure to be cashiered if not lynched.

And for what, trying to make the world a better place ?

The world doesn't WANT to be a better place, you'd have to obliterate this hellspawned sociopathic society that strangles all our humanity from cradle to grave and the murderous demon-god worshipping religions that helped build and continue to refine it with the help of corporations and a government so laughably corrupt that it's only saving grace it's incompetence at fully enslaving us.

I do what I can do, at first cause I believed in it, and thought that was enough, and I still DO believe, but to be absolutely honest the only reason I am still "in the game" is because I just do not have it IN me to quit, wouldn't know how, and wouldn't have the slightest clue what to do if there wasn't ass to kick, like Pavlovs dog with the bell always ringing and were it to stop, I'd have no reason to exist.

People like me are a direct newtonian response to a society that rejects our humanity, and most of them don't make it past twenty, if that, especially now that we've gotten so good at "curing" them - if needs be like Angie Arndt was "cured", which happens often enough it oughta outrage folk, but nobody else seems to care.

But I do, and there's really no cure for that but to act, and so I borrow a quote alleged to have been spoken by Martin Luther when they called him a heretic.

"Here I stand; I can do no other."

You - you have a family, friends, a life outside of what you do, and from what I know of you from your posts, a lot more happiness and humanity left to you than my work has ever left me.

TREASURE that, hold it all the tighter for the folk who, in efforts to preserve it, have lost all chance of it themselves.

Treasure it for the day that everyone can have it.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Monday, December 8, 2008 6:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
watching an almost decades long relationship crumble

With Fremgirl? Say it isn't so, I thought that was pretty solid from the tone of some of your posts...

The concerned Chrisisall

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Monday, December 8, 2008 7:51 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Heres is a group that we should all read.

They are making a big splash agains the jackboots around here.

http://www.flexyourrights.com/

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Tuesday, December 9, 2008 6:14 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Even tho its the government actually doing its job...its still fighting corruption.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/09/illinois.govenor/index.html

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Tuesday, December 9, 2008 6:37 AM

DREAMTROVE

Damn, I was about to post this.

Not even in office, and There's already an Obama-related scandal. Of course, this isn't new. It's been true of almost every president as long as I can remember.

Putting the senate seat on ebay, that probably wasn't a good move

Anyway, I don't think these guys are fighting the power. It's a problem I had with Serenity. Joss says the way to fight the power is to fly under the radar, but then every once in a while he falls for the "let's go head to head with the big bad and beat it over the head." The problem with this is that it's totally unrealistic. The big bad is big and bad, and would totally kick your ass. That's why discretion. River killing all those guys, that I buy. The alliance fleet falling for the reaver trap, a little harder. That our guys win. Nah. But it was fun.

The problem is that this is the sort of thing that star trek always used to do, and it never made sense, except in a machiavellian way: If you defeat evil by hitting it over the head, than that just redefines good as whoever has the biggest frying pan.

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Tuesday, December 9, 2008 4:17 PM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Guys, when destroying the cameras....remember to wear a mask!

http://www.qctimes.com/articles/2008/12/09/news/local/doc493eafab0b3b6
209620072.txt?sPos=1

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Tuesday, December 9, 2008 6:35 PM

You just gotta love well-meaning incompetents, oh so helpful at drawing attention and ire away from folks who do know what they're doing.

If naught else, they're useful as bait.

-F

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Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:36 AM

DREAMTROVE

On incompetence: Unmasked burglars in the UK broke in robbed a store call "Close Circuit Surveillance Center" They were caught on 18 cameras.

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Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:28 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"... so badly damaged that I spend 3 days of the week on average in a wheelchair ..."
"... watching an almost decades long relationship crumble to bits ..."

I don't know which saddens me more on your behalf. Maybe, Frem, the answer is not to gear up, but to slow down ... and let the people who care about you catch up to you, and help you.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:27 PM

Well, that presumes I gotta choice, my age is creepin up on me with a vengance, and some things I can't really help, certainly I ain't nineteen and full of youthful fire no more.

She wanted kids, I cannot provide, and my religion and finances made adoption a dead letter, plus she believes in that whole "born bad" bullshit, firmly believing that we'd get a "bad seed" pawned off on us, on top of which she's a firm believer in "law and order" at any price, and that's never set well between us, especially when her concept of reality was injured via every encounter with that "law and order" exposing her to the very corruption and abuses she was so intent on filing as mere conspiracy theory (like when she got bumper-camped, literally PUSHED over the speed limit by a MD cop who then ticketed her for it) and for some reason despite me never, ever being stupid enough to hand out an I-told-you-so in those situations, always blamed ME when reality didn't seem to fit her ideal, it's not fair, but people are people.

I hope she's happy, cause sure as hell I never really made her so, while decent enough friends, our compatibility issues were a constant stumbling block, and we DID have our little moments of happiness, so... no regrets.

As for my health, only so much can be done, but I never really took to that get some rest idea, had I done that after the accident that near killed me, pneumonia, bedsores and muscle atrophy woulda finished me off - I got up and out and moving, hanging my mangled leg from the handlebars of a custom trike when needed and gettin on with the biz, like I said, some day I might tangle with the reaper, but he's gotta CATCH me first!

It's generally my policy to outrun the ole SOB.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:40 PM

DREAMTROVE

Sorry to hear it. Hey, anyone up for debate on healthcare?

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Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
like I said, some day I might tangle with the reaper, but he's gotta CATCH me first!

You're a closet optimist

. Keep on keepin' on, pal.

The best two out ov tree Chrisisall

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Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:05 PM