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Originally posted by rue:
"You're sometimes over the top."

Show me where I am over the top and not responding to repeated baiting, foul-language, name-calling, baseless accusations, repeated lies, misrepresentations and so on. I don't start these things, but I have no problem responding. BTW I resent the double-standard that says it's OK for OTHER people, but not me.*


"I don't really like the tag-teaming."

I post when I have time and opportunity. That is roughly 1 day a week (or fewer) where I can actively participate in an ongoing discussion in an ongoing way, or even several discussions. There are usually 2-3 days a week where I don't come to the board at all. The rest of the days I may jump into a thread if I have time to read the posts and respond, but if the thread is too long and I can't catch up, I let it go.
I presume SignyM does the same, though I've noticed she is a more consistently present poster than I am.
Anything that looks like tag-teaming to you is purely imaginary on your part. I'm simply not here enough to catch up, let alone coordinate with anyone.
And, BTW, you may have noticed that I have often been the subject of tag-teaming, pile-on, and the like ...



"Remember Chelsea Clinton tearing into some 9 year old girl during the campaign? That's absurd. That's sort of how it looks."

* BTW I resent the double-standard.
This is how it looks to me - the first time around - yeah, maybe someone had a bad day, is young, is new ... 95% of the time, it looks like it's who they are ... after 3 years of the same crap ... sorry. They either learn or they get it back.
I spent years being patient and factual. Did it help ? NO. So I quit.


"... you've gotten into some arguments, and have become a citizeneque immovable object ..."

I'll give you an example. I spent a lot of time in one thread insisting on the facts -
that Hamas won an absolute majority of seats in a parliamentary system, that according to (the obviously Nazi web site) Wikipedia, it gave them the right to form the government WITHOUT a coalition of other parties, that Hamas was the legitimate government of the Gaza strip, and that Abbas' claim to be president was simply the attempt to create a junta.
I also said that Hamas didn't break the truce, that it was broken first by Israel and within 25 hours of signing, and that Hamas didn't fire rockets into Israel during the truce.
All of these are undisputed facts.

Should I NOT insist on them ? You tell me.

And, for my efforts in insisting on facts, I've been called all sorts of names (Nazi and Jew-hater among them), been accused of being horrible things (a Hamas loyalist for example), been derided, been piled-on, and tag-teamed.

I would give you more credit in this if you were not so obviously biased, turning a blind eye when people like Riverlove, Finn, Rap and the like do it, and jumping on me.


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Silence is consent.

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Originally posted by rue:
Oh, BTW DT, since you've shown your preference for RivLv and apparently see not much wrong with those posts, and accuse ME of being over the top, I thought I dig up some classic RivLv from not too long ago:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=36332

RiverLove's first post on the thread

" You sound like PN, Al Jazeera, and Al Zawahiri. Those your new talking point providers now? I'm stunned and terribly disappointed in you and Rue. You have no credibility any more. Maybe you're just so used to fighting with Auraptor & Geezer that you've lost sight of reality and rightousness in this current situation.

Second post

"Well that just proves my point. You don't really even believe the crap you are spewing. Fuck me? No fuck you, you Jew hating terrorist-loving dumb fuck."

Third post

"Yer wasting your time with this Signy piece of shit. His new thing now is to parrot Al Zawahiri and PN in their delusional hatred of Israel, call us stupid, and then say fuck you. I think he's lost his mind, likely as a result of 8 years of Bush Derangement Syndrome. He's got his Bush leaving in 10 days and he's desperate for something new to hate. You Finn, and Auraptor, and Geezer are 100% right about everything you've written on this subject."

Fourth post

"What gall and utter delusion for you to pass judgment on the will and intelligence of Israeli citizens. Your stunning stupidity, and irrationally biased support for evil is appalling, and all sane people can see now that you now lie in filth in the gutter next to PN and the rest of the team that supports your insane positions; positions that cheerlead for Al Qaeda, Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah, Skinheads, Traditional European Anti-Semitism & Nazism, etc.all determined to destroy Israel. You are on the team of savages, enemies of civilization, enslavers of women, and barbaric enforcers of dogmatic vileness. You make me sick. Why don't you go down to Ft Lauderdale and stand proudly next to the gal screaming out the other day to throw Jews back into the oven. She's on your team. She see the world like you do. Like the forces you support and sympathize with you are psychotic, and morally and ethically bankrupt."

Sixth post

"Wrong on both counts you Nazi idiot. You said your "fuck you" for the day already. Now you can put your typing thumb back up your sorry ass."

This, the same RvrLv who admitted to only posting hate-posts out of hate:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=36351

Rue:
Do you and Zit have anything going but being liberal haters ? Just, you know, wondering, since that's all you seem to do (think, feel, write about ...)

Riverlove:
Right now, no.


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Accusations, filth, insults - and mostly hate, hate, and more hate; and not a hint of rational discussion - does that float your boat, DT ?

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Part of it is some really obvious sock puppetry by longtime posters who don't have the guts to spew that filth with their primary usernames.

Remember, as I have noted before I cut my teeth on text only and ANSI BBS's and therefore can often identify someone from their phrasing, word choices, style and cadence in text the same way telegraph operators can ID each other by the "fist" of the message.

I don't usually care, is all - but lately it's been taken to ridiculous extremes, and as I say, they know who they are.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Frem, interesting sockpuppet comment.

I have to say that this is probably for people in desperate need of a life. But still, probably true.


Rue,

You're sometimes over the top. You're not alone. Everyone on one end of the political perspective is bound to be, because they have a firmly held set of beliefs. I've always gotten along with you and Signym, and figured you didn't need any coddling. Signy did go over the line, and as a sane person, she probably shoulda reined it in. I think in the flame wars, she really capped it.

I don't really like the tag-teaming.

Auraptor has posted some things that are definitely over the line but usually falls within it. Finn says a lot of stuff I disagree with, and there's a sort of arrogance that goes with it which is annoying. For a blatant partisan, geezer is pretty mild. The most annoying thing on the forum to be is Whozit's jizm.

IDK, it bugs me. It makes it hard for me to take him seriously.

Riverlove said some interesting stuff when I came back on, I thought newbies are always nice, and anyone who identifies with River is probably insane. So, she hasn't disappointed in the crazy.

But here's what really bugs me, and it's extremely annoying. There's just a fair amount of unmitigated bigotry. Most of it falls on muslims. Some of it falls on jews, and on rednecks (that part was in rare form this past election.)

So, yes, you're pretty intense sometimes. Usually when you argue a political topic, I stand back and watch the fireworks. When Finn gets into it, I just ignore him. He's not alone. I pretty much have Whozit on ignore until he drops the bagel thing, and I have FMF on ignore.

Assume for a second that Riverlove is an unstable teenager, and that you and Signy are seasoned professionals. Then doesn't it seem out of line? Is she crazy? Of course. So is Pirate News, and he doesn't seem to mind people saying that. A lot of people here are not ultra-stable. I mean, they're fans of a show that's really largely about mental illness. Also abuse of power.

Now consider that SignyM, who I like and get along with, can out-do RiverLove in a battle of hate, surely that's an objective lapse in judgment.

If I make fun of people in pretty established positions, it's because they sink to the mud pit. Creatures who live in the mud pit, or come from it, behaving like animals, that's kind of to be expected. No offense, I'm not a Nazi :) and no, I'm not getting into it.

Look it this way. Remember Chelsea Clinton tearing into some 9 year old girl during the campaign? That's absurd. That's sort of how it looks. True, we don't have ages and professions and medical histories posted next to us, but we sort of don't need them.

So yeah, I think RiverLove has things to contribute to the forum, like Fruity Obama Bar
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=36224

Think a moment about the character of River, and then thing how it would sound to say... well you get the point.

Anyway, I have nothing against you and SignyM, and I'm not taking sides. I think "I hope you choke on your vomit and die" is a bit extreme. Now, I could be wrong. It's entirely possible that SignyM is not a middle aged working professional and Riverlove has no mental health issues. But when she's not trying to kill people, she sometimes has interesting things to say.

So do you and Signy and most people. I think on political points, what I mean by you can get intense is that you've gotten into some arguments, and have become a citizeneque immovable object, which is probably the overall characteristic of liberals that conservatives have problems with. I avoid those, and we have interesting topics on other issues. And yes, sure, there are some right wing immovable objects, we know who they are.

But if everyone were to just try to see the other person's point of view, I think we could not only get along better, but have much more interesting discussions.


For instance, I could challenge Geezer or Auraptor to take a pro-gaza position consistant with their own right to self defense. This is a serious challenge. Ignore for a moment what you assume to be true about the action of Hamas, etc., and any association you may have with Israel, consider the possibility that the MSM is as usual lying, and that anything might be the truth. Then take a "what if" approach to "what if palestinians are just defending their homes against unchecked aggression, and make an argument in their favor. And really try. If you can do that, and do it convincingly, it will add to your credibility on arguments.

As for those of you who can't move from the left position, try a defense of the rights of christian communities, or muslim ones, to have their own way of life. Assume that the women in these societies are not "oppressed" but chose to be a part of them, for the sake of the argument.


Or choose your own topics, but argue with yourself. Most people here seem not anchored to a political position, and will often cave, or say "I see your point" or "I'll have to gnaw that over." I've had fierce disagreements with people that I've later been in complete disagreement with later. It helps that we didn't start calling each other Nazis and the like. But still...

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Aww, the poor little sock puppet is enraged at being outed, how tear-jerkingly cute.

Cry some more.

-F

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Politics is so boringly common.

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It was the impossible task of rebirthing Firefly that made us mighty.

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Please, don't come whining at me about how horrible I am for calling you names, you drunken, death-loving cunt.

I hope you die in your own drunken vomit.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Please, don't come whining at me about how horrible I am for calling you names, you drunken, death-loving cunt.

I hope you die in your own drunken vomit.

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Okay, ReaverLove, which part of this is it, exactly, that you have such a huge problem with? I mean, you've been blathering on about it for days now...

Is it the "drunken" part? You don't like being called a drunk?

I bet it's the drunken part.
Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Hmm. So my analysis is correct, Riverlove is SignyM.

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Originally posted by SignyM:

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Hmm. So my analysis is correct,

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Are you serious???? I hope you're joking 'cause I know for a fact that I'm not Riverlove! The voices told me so! Just cause I can imitate the "hate thing" better'n than some can spout it doesn't mean I'm pissed. I guess what I SHOULD have done is sent a PM to some neutral third party, explaining what I was going to do. So next time, if there is a next time, I'll forwarn all of you so you don't take it seriously.

BTW- I'm willing to talk about almost anything, and to entertain almost any viewpoint, provided the person is ammenable to talking facts and logic. But some peeps turn ANY disgareement into a bar-fight. And out comes the name-calling, ad-hominems, strawmen, slippery-slope, etc which torpedoes the hope of any sort of discussion.

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Let's party like its 1929.

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RIVERLOVE
Friday, January 09, 2009 - 11:30

Yer wasting your time with this Signy piece of shit. His new thing now is to parrot Al Zawahiri and PN in their delusional hatred of Israel, call us stupid, and then say fuck you. I think he's lost his mind, likely as a result of 8 years of Bush Derangement Syndrome. He's got his Bush leaving in 10 days and he's desperate for something new to hate. You Finn, and Auraptor, and Geezer are 100% right about everything you've written on this subject.

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Originally posted by rue:

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RIVERLOVE
Friday, January 09, 2009 - 11:30

Yer wasting your time with this Signy piece of shit. His new thing now is to parrot Al Zawahiri and PN in their delusional hatred of Israel, call us stupid, and then say fuck you. I think he's lost his mind, likely as a result of 8 years of Bush Derangement Syndrome. He's got his Bush leaving in 10 days and he's desperate for something new to hate. You Finn, and Auraptor, and Geezer are 100% right about everything you've written on this subject.

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Silence is consent.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Hey Rue: Let's not make Riverlove the topic of this thread, 'mkay? I know I'm guilty of same but .... that's what's killing the forum.

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Let's party like its 1929.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

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Let's party like its 1929.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

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Let's party like its 1929.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
That was so good it had to be posted twice, huh?

Forcefrakker.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Childish much?

Please, don't come whining at me about how horrible I am for calling you names, you inebriated, end-of-life-loving self-centered person.

I hope you expire in your own impared regurgitation.
and BTW do yourself.

Better?


The kinder, gentler Chrisisall

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Originally posted by pizmobeach:
"who is River6213?"

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Childish much?


The kinder, gentler Chrisisall

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Hey, I thought I was you! Now I'm so confused!!

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Originally posted by Riverlove:
...die in your own drunken vomit

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Hi DT

I know SignyM personally (hey, it's a small world for people who do what we do), and she is NOT RiverLove.

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Originally posted by Riverlove:

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Hey, I thought I was you! Now I'm so confused!!

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Originally posted by SignyM:

Please, don't come whining at me about how horrible I am for calling you names, you drunken, death-loving cunt.

I hope you die in your own drunken vomit.

and BTW Fuck you.
---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
As for RiverLove, I think we broke her. She's turned into a spambot. I suppose that if she were a real person she wouldn't be trying to get banned. I feel dumb.

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Hi DT

I know SignyM personally (hey, it's a small world for people who do what we do), and she is NOT RiverLove.

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lol. I've known this for many years. I'm not sure that she's not RiverLove, but it was mostly meant as a snark, and an interesting and humorous possibility. They share a number of mannerism, I was just analyzing posts, that's what lead me to the conclusion. I was less serious about Whozit being Chrisisall, but again, not something I would completely rule out. I mean, if someone were just screwing with us for no particular reason.

Neither of them are Finn. I can't say that neither of them are Auraptor for sure. If they are someone's second ID, it's more likely that a lurker is suspect.

As for "Who is River6213?" Can I get the $1000!?

Sorry, that didn't occur to me earlier. Ouch. Firsted. Pwned, all of that. Actually, I'm going to go with RiverLove is plenty crazy enough to be River6213, but not smart enough, no offense love.

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Oh, and also, I apologize for being RiverLove.

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