Case for the 2nd Amendment made clear for all by AURaptor

I have to agree with Rap on this one.

The nutjob was going to have an assault rifle regardless. During the ban, countless assault rifles were smuggled into the country along with countless amounts of cocaine and heroin.

Still, even if govt. is incompetent, there has to be a way to stop this.

These cases are still a minority, and the majority are random gun owners going nuts whether from drugs or stress or whatever, and going and killing someone, and statistically, excluding self defense, which is also a minority, that person, that they kill, is very often themselves.

Momentary lapse of reason should not be one of the top killers in this country, and a society should be able to protect itself. But that doesn't mean that just because your town owners have guns that they are protected. If every household in your town has a gun, and one of those people goes into a school or church or a diner like in the story, folks are going to die.

To protect ourselves, we need to evolve the gun. We need a weapon that can stop the attacker, without killing him. Not because I value the life of the attacker, but because its because I don't know who the next attacker is going to be. When I got into that second amendment argument, remember a friend of mine had just been killed with an assault rifle. I wouldn't have felt any better if it had gone the other way.

But say I set up my own town, and I want to stop this from happening in it. Giving everyone a gun, that's not going to do it. So, yes, you're right, but, and here's my counterpoint, over time, we need to develop a better defense.

IMHO, the depopulation crowd has a vested interest, and the industry of weapons makers have a vested interest, in the sale of weapons. The current weapons. We need a better weapon, and I think we have the technology. It can take a dead man 30 seconds to lose all brain function, and stop shooting. We can design a faster tranq than that. And yes, I know that the Geneva Convention rules that out. But, coming from a Right to Life perspective, I say, I'm willing to cross that line, not to protect the life of the shooter in this story, but to protect the life of the people in my community, from themselves. Because ultimately, that's going to be the next madman, he's one of the normal citizens, who one day flips.

Here's another little story. My brother as you know is a law professor. Here's why. He used to work for a lawfirm. The job was so stressful that one night he awoke with what he thought was a heart attack. It turned out to be chest muscles that had seized up from stress, but they told him, that he needed to reduce stress, or it could be a heart attack next time. So he quit. Two weeks after he quit, one of his coworkers came in with an assault rifle and shot everyone, killing 12. Four of the wounded survived, after the killer, believing he had killed everyone, shot himself.

Now, who knows how else the scenario could have played out, but tomorrow's mad shooter isn't a random animal, he's one of us. Something in this guys head made him react differently to the stress than my brother did. Fight or flight, My brother fled.

A society that is capable of defending itself needs not fewer weapons, it needs better weapons. Weapons that can stop an attacker faster, but weapons that also, should the next madman be the guy you're standing next to in the mens room, or wherever you're least expecting it, have something a little less deadly.

When we talk second amendment, this issue doesn't end with assault rifles. The last line in that video is the solid truth. What exactly do you say to the people in Waco? Sorry, you're fucked? Or do you say, yes, in your case, I think anti-tank artillery is merited. Yeah, of course it's merited. But you see, it ain't gonna be one fine line. They can fill every house in america with a machine gun, and IMHO, the only result of that is gonna be that more dinner table arguments are going to end in a dead family. And don't think for a second that there aren't people in our govt. who would just love to see that happen. Esp. in rural communities.

Yah, I heard all the talk about racism in the last election, but I hope that everyone saw the real bigotry that came out in force wasn't against Barack Obama, it was against Sarah Palin, and it did not stop, and did not have anything to do with her being a woman. I see us as "slated for extermination." We have to be smarter than that.

And, if you're not the level of skeptic that I am enough to believe that, track down crystal meth, and how and why it got into our communities. It wasn't there when I was growing up. Drugs were a city problem. Crystal Meth is a custom made country drug to make us into reavers, so we can hack each other up with chainsaws.

So. Rap, I agree, someone shoulda had a gun and shot the bastard. I have no problem with that. If an officer is allowed to carry a gun, so is a citizen, because I don't want to trust there has to be a cop present. And you know I've had an assault rifle loaded, and pointed at my head, for nine hours. I've been shot at, and had guns pointed at me, I've used guns, and I'm a decent shot. But this is a stop gap measure, and it could go either way. We need a better defense, and we need to recognize the enemy.

Last word I'm gonna say on this topic, because I'm just here to make you think, not to disagree, cause I conceded the second amendment point to personal ownership for person protection, and I never disagreed with the rest of it, but back to my friend, being shot. Suppose, instead of being a recovering heroin addict on methadone looking for some refer, he had been a fried meth-head, and one day, he had woken up and we all looked like goblins to him, and he could have been the one on a mad shooting spree. I can't say that this thought never went through my head, even when he was alive. I thought what he did was really stupid. It wasnt batsh*t crazy. But I've also seen some meth-heads, and some crack heads, one of whom shot at me, a block from Obama's house, and let me just say that they're a breed apart. My friend mighta come to my door, or any door, or gone to school (church not likely, he was jewish, and not a lot of religious resentment) but he mighta started shooting in that case, and yeah, sure, someone woulda got him. But I'm gonna wager not before he got a few himself. Your gun, itself, isn't enough defense if the shooter strikes at 4am, and you're sleeping in a trailer, he never has to open the door, just start shooting at the trailer, you can gnab everyone inside.

Pesonally, my house is made of stone, the walls are a few feet thick. Not everyone is so lucky.

Just something to gnaw on.

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Tuesday, January 13, 2009 5:01 PM

Government is scary scary, I understand the original point of the second amendment (though I doubt the public can ever overcome the complacency that's been cultivated in them, if the public did ever need to make a change).

I used to be crazy nuts anti-gun laws. I was one of the zealots (and most anti-gun people really AREN'T. I was). It just seemed like so much pointless wasted life, and I never saw enough citizen action or police brutality or crime to justify all the suicides, suicide killing sprees, and inter-gang fighting.

Those feelings are all still there, but now I understand you can't tell people not to do anything, and especially what they can and can't possess. Ethically, it's a judgment, and whenever I find judging I also find people being high-handed. High-handedness is a dangerous mindset for everybody.

Again I find myself agreeing with DT. For an interim plan, less lethal weapons is a good idea.

But if the public has it's hands on effective non-lethal weapons, the people who still really want to kill (and they are out there) will find a way. And then what? You can take them out fast, maybe, but someone probably is still going to be wounded before that happens.

What we really need is something to address the depression, sadism, self-absorption, and whatever else it is that causes people to decide to hurt other people. And I think that it's systematic, something inherent in our society. This aspect has always been around, there's always been murders and suicides, but percentage-wise it all seems so much higher than it ever has been.

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Tuesday, January 13, 2009 5:14 PM

KIRKULES

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
This aspect has always been around, there's always been murders and suicides, but percentage-wise it all seems so much higher than it ever has been.

Homicide rates recently declined to levels last seen in the late 1960's
The homicide rate nearly doubled from the mid 1960's to the late 1970's.

In 1980, it peaked at 10.2 per 100,000 population and subsequently fell off to 7.9 per 100,000 in 1984.

It rose again in the late 1980's and early 1990's to another peak in 1991 of 9.8 per 100,000.

From 1992 to 2000, the rate declined sharply. Since then, the rate has been stable.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/hmrt.htm

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Tuesday, January 13, 2009 5:17 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
That wonderful lady is responsible for the fact that the majority of States now allow concealed carry. She got it all rolling and we owe her our thanks.

Ted Nugent speaks for me.

Ted Nugent, didn't he pay a pimp to let his 17-year-old daughter be "adopted" by Nugent?

Just like Woody Allen.

Saw it on VH1. Wink wink nudge nudge.

Hell is having to sing Cat Scratch Fever 10,000 times.

THE U.S. CIVIL WAR WILL BEGIN BETWEEN 2009 AND 2012
www.infowars.com/?p=5938

"This sucker (USA) is going to go DOWN!"
-President George W Bush, 2008

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Tuesday, January 13, 2009 7:12 PM

double post

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Tuesday, January 13, 2009 7:12 PM

Quote:

But if the public has it's hands on effective non-lethal weapons, the people who still really want to kill (and they are out there) will find a way. And then what? You can take them out fast, maybe, but someone probably is still going to be wounded before that happens.

then the real killers will be stopped by the populous armed with tranqs. They can then do what they want, cut of his head if they want, but probably lock him up is what they'll do

Quote:
What we really need is something to address the depression, sadism, self-absorption, and whatever else it is that causes people to decide to hurt other people. And I think that it's systematic, something inherent in our society. This aspect has always been around, there's always been murders and suicides, but percentage-wise it all seems so much higher than it ever has been.

We need both. Most of this madness I think is induced by two things: 1. substance abuse, and 2. the overwhelming stress society puts on its member, esp. workers.

These numbers are much higher because there is more stress, more drugs, and easier access to automatic weapons, sorry folks but true. Cho is a rarety. Most spree killers can't do that much with a Glock. We need to change society, true, but that's a long term plan.

Thanks for the facts, caveman

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Wednesday, January 14, 2009 1:03 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Well, until you get number 2 there done - something I myself work at by tryin to dump sand in the gears of the "monster factories", I'll be keeping my means of defense against the end product.

And I think you mis-estimate the impact of human psychology when it comes to non-lethal defensive arms, since that would imho increase, rather than decrease violence since it would not carry the same level of discouragement a bullet in the brain pan does, nor would it remove them permanently from the society they prey upon.

And thems my two pennysworth on it.

-F

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Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:41 AM

yeah, it would happen, and would be annoying, after which, you would be not dead.

One of the runaways I was helping stabbed her boyfriend 22 times or so with a crumbless cutter. Now, I don't know if you know this blade, but it looks sort of like this:

It's about 2 feet long.

He had snuck in, in the middle of the night with intent kill her, and brought the knife. The apt. was the first floor of a large house, and some drunken frat boys had broken down the front door in an attempt to beat up the people upstairs, who had the sin of ignoring one of their members attempt to pick a fight. The moronic police had sat there and just waited for the guys to break down this big 200 yo door, because they wanted "a crime committed" and "trespassing" "wasn't big enough" anyway, so we had no security. Thats another story, back to a**hole boyfriend here.

He was about 6" tall, adult male, 200 lbs or so, she was 15, around 5" and 105 lbs. She took the knife from him and proceeded to kick the living daylights out of him, and I just stood there and watched as she beat him and stabbed him and through him down the back steps.

Honestly, actually, it was hard not to crack up at a would be killer getting his ass kicked so badly. Here's the kicker. A crumbless cutter looks like a deadly weapon, but it's a cake knife, of the kind you would use at a wedding. This means the blade is pretty thin, not that sharp, and very flexible. It's like trying to kill someone with a spatula.

This clever guy had decided that he would pull the inventive and career advancement move of tracking down his little runaway, and undoubtedly grabbed the biggest knife he could find, from his parents house, or maybe he broke into hers first, I don't know how he found out where she was. But just watching him get River'ed was hysterical. Okay, he came off a bit bloody, but most of that was from being thrown down the stairs. Watching the blade repeatedly bend like a a bendy thing... oh that, and the whole would be murderer getting his ass royally handed to him by a little girl.

Now, if he had picked a different weapon, the whole seen would have ended quite differently. If I recall correctly there were five kids at the time staying in the room I had set up. It was a pretty big room, so they each had their own beds, I think it was 2 guys and three girls, but none of them were a size match to take on the guy by any means, if this little girl hadn't had an inner River, or at least a Tonya Harding. But picture the scene if he had picked a real weapon, like say, an old fashion breadknife, instead of a cakeknife. I have one of these, it's some kind of other century, Idk, but it's old enough that the handle is made of wrapped cloth and wood, and it's non stainless steel and I figure you'd probably kill someone on a first go with it, considered they're asleep. Anyway, it's a little more deadly than this

really doesn't do it justice as probably one of the most potentially deadly weapons I've seen. But no, Mr. Douchebag had to bring his own. My knife is very shard, double edged and has no bend, maybe a foot long blade. There would have been a lot of blood.

Now, if he'd brought a handgun, he'd have just shot her, and she wouldn't've woken up. Then he mighta shot anyone else who intervened. Unless being the oaf that he was, he'd woken her up and she'd've shot him.

Now picture if he had come in with an assault rifle. He'd just have sprayed the room with bullets and killed them all. wouldn't need to go that near the beds, just fire 'til everything turns red.

Now, there was a guy in the building with a guy. He was didn't use it that night. One night he did feel the need, and brought it out of its drawer, loaded it up, and spattered his own brains on the wall.

That's real life. I've got a host of real life stories. None of them approach the gun fantasy. The reality is that there are a lot of guns, and various kinds of weapons around here, and I've seen them in action. One friend of mine kept a loaded 19th century pistol in his living room, on display. A family with a six year old was visiting one night when we were all there to watch WWF, and we were all in the kitchen when the kid went and got the gun and snuck up behind Steve and say said bang your dead. He had no real concept of gun or death, there was no safety, but the kid was having trouble with the trigger. A fact which prevent Steve's brains from joining the lasagne.

What I don't have, honestly, is a story where a life was saved by a person with a gun, or a weapon of any kind, through use, or the threat of use of.

So, I show restraint entertaining the fantasy vision that the 2nd amendment crowd has of the great defender, but I got a pretty solid and long life history saying this is not how the game plays out. Yah, I know that'll get some sort of rise out of 'em, so I have have plenty more where that came from. I'll save them for the moment. I just deleted one above because it was too much of a downer, and I thought I'd have lot of opportunity to tell it. Not sayin' anything here about the law, what it is, or what it should be, or "gun safety" what people *actually* do vs what they *should* do. Not really all that relevant.

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Wednesday, January 14, 2009 7:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

then the real killers will be stopped by the populous armed with tranqs. They can then do what they want, cut of his head if they want, but probably lock him up is what they'll do

Yeah, they'll be able to stop them, but my point there was that before anyone would KNOW to try to stop them, the perpetrator would have to attempt to act first. Hence why I said there would still be injuries, though admittedly much fewer than right now (which is why it's a good idea).

I didn't know that about the suicide and murder rate, just perception, I guess. Thanks. :)

Still think something needs to be done to help these people before they go off the deep end.

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Wednesday, January 14, 2009 9:14 AM

Bytemite

I completely agree with all of the above. As for doing something for them, take a cold libertarian browncoat perspective on that for the moment. Essentially, you have reavers who are hopeless timebombs best removed from your society, and you shoot them or stun them when they go off.

Then you have River Tam, who is the salvageable loon that you have to save. Fortunately for her, she has her own personal brother doctor, which isn't 100%, but at least it means that the rest of the crew is still alive.

Sticking to firefly for the moment, if we were to assume no intervention by Simon at any point than at some point, River would have killed the crew.

But, consider that in this scenario, the mainstream medical establishment is BSC, two by two hands of blue, in that case, River would have killed the crew, and because govt. is incompetent, should would have killed them too.

So, the next question becomes "Who" is it that deals with the potential problems, and that means you and me and not the govt. and hospitals, because look at the bang up job they're doing now.

Next is "when." River is a created problem for a reason. She represents our societies creation of lunacy. If you prevent the intervention that make lunatics, you've easily solved the majority of the problem.

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Wednesday, January 14, 2009 9:19 AM

You're going to hate me for this, because I know you hate socialism, but in your example I think what would help is the community.

If people felt good about their lives and their relationship with the people around them and the world at broad, I think there'd be less stress and less mental illness.

I think government should be local ONLY. So in my head, what government should be and the way a community should work intersect.

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Wednesday, January 14, 2009 10:25 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

What will USA be like when Hussein Obama bans all guns?

Paki homebrew gun factories, new 1911 for $50:
www.vbs.tv/full_screen.php?s=DGFE2305DC&sc=1363196

Obama wants to Surge Afghnistan.

Alexander the Great couldn't do it.

Communist Russia couldn't do it.

British Empire invaded Afghanistan with 16,000 troops, only one survived...

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Wednesday, January 14, 2009 12:23 PM

CREVANREAVER

I've been aware of Suzanna Gratia-Hupp for years. She's a hero of mine!

http://www.capitalism.org/faq/guns.htm

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Wednesday, January 14, 2009 3:40 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Texas is looking to allow open-carry now, instead of just concealed-carry. Could be interesting.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Wednesday, January 14, 2009 3:50 PM

I'm in favor of community. Social Engineering is not a bad idea, it's a bad form of govt. You can't have a dictation of social and moral values to all the people, but you can collectively associate like minded citizens, which is why religions exist.

Quote:
If people felt good about their lives and their relationship with the people around them and the world at broad, I think there'd be less stress and less mental illness.

Yes, but society has been manipulated to prevent this stability, to increase production, and decrease reproduction. This creates stress because it removes us from our natural state, It creates a lot of mental illness, not as much as chemical psychotrophics do, including those found in everyday foods.

Quote:

I think government should be local ONLY. So in my head, what government should be and the way a community should work intersect.

I would agree, but you need an overarching union to protect each state from domination from some outside power. The structure of this would have to be elaborate. I have one which actually is based on what my sister devised for her rehabilitation classes. It rewards even handedness and neutrality, and punishes use of power, not just abuse, but any exercising of power. It naturally leads to a leadership of the powerless to govern a body which possesses no power. This does nothing but prevent another body from taking its place, allowing freedom for the individuals within it. I think that if this works with a group of substance abuse cases, it might work with a group of communities as well. In a more complex reconstruction, but that's the general idea.

One of the Tory MPs made an excellent case for NATO as the best form of Govt., because it had no power to legislate, but its existence had prevented the formation of independent offensive militaries. It's flaw was the same as the above, that it could be replaced by another body, the EU, which is just the sort of thing we would have to guard against.

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Wednesday, January 14, 2009 3:53 PM

John,

Your points on Afghanistan are well taken. The pashtun value chaos and oppose order, because they know that order is the only power which can strip them of their core social beliefs. Thus, they will never surrender. Somalia is a similar affair. The NWO hates societies like this, because it can neither understand nor control chaos.

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Wednesday, January 14, 2009 3:53 PM

KIRKULES

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Texas is looking to allow open-carry now, instead of just concealed-carry. Could be interesting.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

That's cool, but when I lived in Kansas that was the law there but it was not honored by law enforcement. If you were walking down the road with a six shooter they would haul you downtown for questioning, then release you if they found nothing to charge you with. A friend of mine lived in Arizona in the 70's and said they still had pistol checks to drop off your guns at the entrance of bars.

I think in Frem's Utopian future everyone carries a weapon (exposed and concealed) therefore limiting the necessity to use them.

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Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:56 PM

It's probably not feasible to not have an overarching government, I agree, but it seems like a distant government can rarely make the necessary legislation to meet a community's needs. What's more, my impression is the only point of a national government is to provide the framework for a national military and an economy based upon supplying such. I know, I know, ours also sets international policy and standards for social programs, but I don't feel that's what the federal government's real, unspoken purpose is.

I respect that our soldiers are trying to fight for our safety, and that they're not responsible for what our government decides to do, but I really don't like the wars we fight. And a strong national military can be tricked into acting against the people they're supposed to serve... Just seems like a dangerous idea.

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Wednesday, January 14, 2009 5:04 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Believe me, DT, I got plenty of examples where my very ass was saved by that tiny little popgun I carry, the most recent of which was against a corrupt cop about to eat his fair share of criminal charges and quite pissed about it.

Admittedly that was partially the fault of the guy from another agency who was supposed to be there first but got tied up and was a bit late, but still, had I not been armed, things might have turned out differently.

I DO favor it, but for those who like to split hairs, I am far more in favor of self-defense than weapons use or possession, all the weapon does is level the field against bad odds or a larger, stronger aggressor.

But it's the ACT of resistance that is important, and the vilification of self-defense is in my eyes just serving the members of civilization to those who would prey upon them pre-sliced and ready for consumption.

The young girl in your example did it right, she did meekly call 911 and wait passively for the police - she acted in self-defense, something I've caught hell for so many times I happen to be pretty bitter about it, I mean... when you defend your life and/or property with a minimum of force or the mere threat of it, and YOU wind up in court for daring to do so, or have the PERP call the cops on you in an attempt (which damn near worked) to have you disarmed while they're STANDING ACROSS THE STREET LAUGHING, in preparation to make a second attempt to steal your property when it happens....

You tend to get a little bit of an attitude about stuff like this.

Just imagine if your young friend there wound up doing a little *time* for assault and battery, cause it happens, especially in MD, which is one reason I left that hellhole and moved to a more sensible place to live.

Cause of that, I have very little respect for society and the law's concept that self-defense is an evil, criminal, despicable act, and over time that lack of respect has evolved into downright misanthropy.

It's the action that's important, but the tool determines the success or failure of the action too much to be dismissed as irrelevant, and is something therefore that should not be removed as a factor.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, January 14, 2009 6:28 PM

BM

That's what the articles of confederation did. There was no need for a national military, there were the militias, now called the national guard, and like NATO, were required to unite for national defense. But there should be a structure that overarchs and protects against interference.

Oh, and I'm getting tired of the conversational necessity to suck up to soldiers. We've all had friends who fought and died, and we know there are many on this board, but our politicians have made this rhetoric old and hollow, not meaning to bust your chops for it. We all get the drill I hope.

Frem.

Terse is nice. I get your point, I've seen some strange things, but the abuse of police power esp. in cities is obscene. You tend not to see that out here. Probably because there are about 1,000 armed citizens or more per police officer.

No need to rant. No attitude here. Just pointing out what other people don't want to admit. As I said, I have dozens of other stories to share, right at the moment, I'm way too tired. Maybe tomorrow.

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Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:05 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

In case anyone was wondering about stories of guns being used in self defense...

Here you go:

http://www.kc3.com/self_defense/Self_Defense.htm

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Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:37 AM

Ah, yes, example can be pulled out to support any case under the sun. Which is why I was shattering the romantic illusion of the gun. It's an illusion flaunted by its defenders, and glorified in the media everywhere you turn. It's a fantasy as real as any other, which is to say, occassionally.

But anecdotally, I just can't come up with one. Any of you ever shot someone and saved lives by doing so? Outside of say, a war? I mean, exercising that second amendment right.

Here's a story. A guy around here, neighbor of my sister's. a hunter, kept a gun on the mantle. He had hired a contractor to come and work on his house. The guy and his wife both worked, so they gave the contractor a key, so that they could lock the place up when they left. Locks, too, have their defenders, they're normally pretty rare around here.

Anyway, so it goes, one night the son of the contractor took the key from his fathers room, and went to this guy's house, unarmed, he used the key, no breaking and entering, to come in, and steal the flat screen TV. Taking the TV made a racket, and the owner's wife woke up and went downstairs to see what was making the noise. The kid put down the TV and took the gun from the mantle, and shot her in the head, then took the TV and left.

I think it didn't go something like this:

Kill my love, take my stuff
Let me make this my last stand
I don't care, I'm still free
You can't take this gun from me.

I have, as I said, no end of these. Not arguing against the 2nd amendment, just using this fantasy picture of the heroic defender for target practice. Hope you don't mind if by exercising that first amendment right, I might shoot a few holes in it.

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Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:59 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Thats fine.

But its like anything. I'd rather have the means of protection available to me when I needed it, than to be a sheep when the animals come.

I sleep with my tools-of-defense under my bed every night. In the morning, before work, I lock them up tight.

Again, just in case.

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Thursday, January 15, 2009 6:10 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

One evening I was sitting in my car in the parking lot of a Kroger’s. My then girlfriend came out of the Kroger’s with whatever she bought and returned to the car. She was followed by about 5 rough dudes who were obviously drunk and sporting gang paraphernalia. They approached the car in an aggressive posture and one of them said something like “get out of the car.” I pretended to ignore them, but as they approached I reached down and pulled out my firearm, which remained in its holster and simply rested my arm with the firearm/holster on the window frame. Like magic, because it would have to be magic since some of you can’t possible believe a firearm could provide any defense at all, the 5 yutes turn and scuttled off.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Thursday, January 15, 2009 6:20 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"yutes"

My Cousin Vinnie - one of my all-time favorite comedies, after Airplane, of course.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, January 15, 2009 11:25 AM

Wulf

No issue with that. A somewhat funny story. This woman who slept with a gun under her pillow, once accidentally shot her husband in the head. He survived, and was okay, and now they're still married.

"sorry about that hun"

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Thursday, January 15, 2009 8:26 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"yutes"

My Cousin Vinnie - one of my all-time favorite comedies, after Airplane, of course.

Yeah. One of mine too. I love shows about idiots that succeed.

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Thursday, April 14, 2022 11:46 AM

Terror Attack and bomb devices planted

Brooklyn subway shooting: Suspect taunted New York mayor about gun violence in online videos
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/04/13/new-york-subway-shoo
ting-frank-r-james-gun-violence-end-now-declares-governor/

What Joe Biden and Kamala are Not Telling You About Ghost Guns?

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Sunday, September 10, 2023 5:59 PM

the Swiss have lots of guns and yet they are so chill

Lawyers, guns and money: how Switzerland still hoards the world’s wealth
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lawyers-guns-and-money-how-switzerl
and-still-hoards-the-worlds-wealth-ldgv2w990

'Murica and guns

why fear the Alex Jones UN army invasion when sometimes the USA is already a police state...

cuffing the teenager kid while the dog dies?

perhaps it could have been worse, they forgot to shoot the dog just to make sure it died?

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Wednesday, August 28, 2024 11:16 AM

Oakland Liquor Store Owner Is Jumped By A Mob Of Teen Thugs Until He Pulls Out His Second Amendment Equalizer

https://vidmax.com/video/229103-oakland-liquor-store-owner-is-jumped-b
y-a-mob-of-teen-thugs-until-he-pulls-out-his-second-amendment-equalizer

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Thursday, August 29, 2024 6:17 AM

Absolute Degenerate POS Attacks Random Woman At LA Metro Station, Then Drags Her To The Freeway And Tries To Toss Her In Front Of Traffic

https://vidmax.com/video/229114-absolute-degenerate-pos-attacks-random
-woman-at-la-metro-station-then-drags-her-to-the-freeway-and-tries-to-toss-her-in-front-of-traffic

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Tuesday, September 24, 2024 4:12 PM