REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Hey, we want to be part of the hate!

POSTED BY: DREAMTROVE
UPDATED: Monday, January 19, 2009 16:14
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Sunday, January 18, 2009 9:35 AM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

So anyway, Finn, any comment my post, in which I question the ultimate purpose of capital punishment?


Oh, I can throw a few in here:

Capital Punishment is a mechanism of fear. Essentially, state terrorism. Far too few people are executed to have a real agenda to it.

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Sunday, January 18, 2009 9:47 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"Let's face it. Many people don't come here to share and learn from one another."

I don't think most can. What I find really disenheartening is that many, many people here seem to be relating to their childhood issues ad infinitum, often without realizing it, and never quite get beyond them.

It's sad. To grow older and older and never quite become an adult.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Sunday, January 18, 2009 11:26 AM

DREAMTROVE


Kathy

I suspect that most people have forgotten their childhood. Most people I find want to vent their opinion on issues. Some just want to talk about their private life with bagels.

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Sunday, January 18, 2009 11:26 AM

DREAMTROVE


Erg. Double post.

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Sunday, January 18, 2009 11:31 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Evil, in my example, in the context I thought I presented clearly enough, is just anti-survival urges in the human psyche brought on by post-environmental population toxicity: an emergent attempt by nature to curb the epidemic spread of the human species. But, oh yeah, original sin and dichotomy fit in there, too. Somewhere. I'm sure.
They sure do. You’re just using modern rationale for the good-evil dichotomy.

Explanation is not the same as rationale, if I understand the meanings correctly.


The comprehending Chrisisall

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Sunday, January 18, 2009 11:39 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:
Not sure if this was a reference to HK's post?

I meant in regard to how you were referencing the nothingness of Zen, HK was referencing the prominences of Euro beliefs, and I found a way to come in sideways and make fun of the concept - three totally different takes on a single point in time, just fascinating, in a sorta way.

Re: Neurochemical Processes.

I hope you have some time on your hands then, cause Doc Perry's work is real heavy on this sorta thing, especially as it relates to the HPA axis and Fight-Freeze-Flight reaction, but it's seriously "heavy lifting" to read without the associated medical/scientific backgrounding.

Two especially good ones to start from are here.
http://www.childtrauma.org/ctamaterials/neuros~1.asp
http://www.childtrauma.org/ctamaterials/states_traits.asp

The main site link for fav placing - http://www.childtrauma.org/
Quote:
I still don't get which institutions you are referring to


From the CAICA mission statement.
http://www.caica.org/

CAICA seeks to expose the abuse and distress of children placed in private and state-funded programs including but not limited to residential facilities, behavior modification programs, boot camps, wilderness programs, and boarding schools.
CAICA believes that no child should be abducted, incarcerated, abused, neglected, or stripped of their basic human rights for the sake of profit.

Basically, any full-time residential/incarcerative facility that uses behavior modification processes on children and/or teens that are known to be in fact harmful in physical or psychological fashion.

Reform Schools, Boot Camps, Training Schools, whatever euphamism they hide behind - especially those run by WWASP, cause that was an offshoot of the Synanon Cult originally financed and co-opted by a certain blackops program involving behavior modification research.
http://www.thestraights.com/flowchart.htm
That ain't conspiracy theory, it's conspiracy fact, proven and admitted, and the one reason I despise Mitt Romney is that Sembler, Lichfield and Kay were/are his primary financiers.

Those who survive and thrive after "treatment" at these hellholes do so by a form of learned/trained sociopathy that makes them absolutely perfect recruits to carry out "plans", in short high end triggermen, meant as mission capable rather than actual trigger-pullers, which are a dime a dozen.

Jeff Guckert/Gannon and Talon News Service is a prime example, and one the media backed off and buried awfully damned fast because it lead to *questions*, some of which provoked the dissappearance of Rusty E Nelson and the suicide of Hunter S Thompson, who were both to some degree involved in the procurement chain used to secure Jeffie boy in the first place.

These facilities are the "factory" which produces folk capable of carrying out objectives with absolute loyalty and unswerving devotion, lacking a single blink of conscience or regret cause they're already disconnected from and scornful of the society that cast them into the pit, and thus have no loyalty to it - and often fanatic loyalty to their "rescuers".

I play on that myself, cause if you get to them early enough, you can re-integrate them into a semi-normal life, but the fanatic loyalty is still there, often to a degree that requires a very tight ROE if you wanna keep them out of trouble.

Does that clarify the issue ?

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Sunday, January 18, 2009 11:40 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
What I find really disenheartening is that many, many people here seem to be relating to their childhood issues ad infinitum, often without realizing it, and never quite get beyond them.

It's sad. To grow older and older and never quite become an adult.

If I went back in time & had a talk with my younger self, I think I'd be confronting a very different person.
If you went back to agree with everything you held true in your youth, I think that would mean that no growth had taken place. Can you say 'arrested adolescence'?


The observing Chrisisall

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Sunday, January 18, 2009 12:46 PM

DREAMTROVE


Chris,

I think I would go tell that arrogant shmuck to stop talking and start listening, and reading. I would also tell him to not put trust in figures of authority. I could probably tell him a thing or two about his left wing ideas of govt. regulation, but I would be wasting my breath. Nah, I'd shut up. I'd rather have arrived at my current position earlier in life, but I would probably screw it up, and my former self would end up married to some slut and live in a trailer in Tennessee with kids in college, and a job at IBM.

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Sunday, January 18, 2009 1:14 PM

DREAMTROVE


Zen snark mighta missfired.

Quote:
Re: Neurochemical Processes.


Neurochemistry is one of my more active hobbies. I like to mix things up. I consider myself really quite informed on the topic, enough to tell big pharm when their wrong about their own drugs. I guess that amounts to "bring it on."

Quote:
I hope you have some time on your hands then, cause Doc Perry's work is real heavy on this sorta thing, especially as it relates to the HPA axis and Fight-Freeze-Flight reaction, but it's seriously "heavy lifting" to read without the associated medical/scientific backgrounding.

Two especially good ones to start from are here.
http://www.childtrauma.org/ctamaterials/neuros~1.asp
http://www.childtrauma.org/ctamaterials/states_traits.asp

The main site link for fav placing - http://www.childtrauma.org/


Okay, I'll take a look. But mind you, if I'm liable to disagree with something, which I am never predisposed to do, (I was even willing to give Bush's second term a chance:) lol, but true,) then I'm liable to say so. Recently in a post about the meaning of the word "Apocrypha" I said, if Merriam-Webster disagrees with me, then I'm still right, and they're still wrong.

While this might come off as arrogant, it's not really, it's a lot of logic and the balance of evidence. I study a lot of disciplines, and I can tell you right now that the field of psychiatry is way off, and psychopharmacology usually doesn't know its own science. So, I may be wrong, and often am, but I can accept that. But I'm still liable to shoot down a skeet or two if I see 'em.

Jes warning you is all.

Quote:

Basically, any full-time residential/incarcerative facility that uses behavior modification processes on children and/or teens that are known to be in fact harmful in physical or psychological fashion.

Reform Schools, Boot Camps, Training Schools, whatever euphamism they hide behind - especially those run by WWASP, cause that was an offshoot of the Synanon Cult originally financed and co-opted by a certain blackops program involving behavior modification research.


Not doubting, but just ignorant: These places still exist?

The open and free society is, imho, a very dangerous place, and it's like a giant death camp, and a typical kid is likely to end up dead, or as good as dead, in the drug war, drug culture, if they're lucky, they'll end up a slave in a credit-based lifestyle working endless overtime wages.

Still, I can see where institutions can be dangerous. I even think that the university is a psychological training center, and marketplace for substance abuse-slavery route.

I would favor institutions that created a safe haven, I've seen some iron curtain ones that were definitely preferable to what I've seen on the streets, but I've also seen some that weren't, where torture, corporal punishment, programming went on. I didn't know we had any.

IMHO, the worst institution I've seen in the US is the public school. I don't miss not having been a part of it.

The only reason I'm saying this is that it's a tricky thing to do, to classify a wide group of institutions as "evil." I hope it's a specific list with a very definite set of criteria.

Here's another dangerous programming, torturing and killing field for kids today: The US military.
Oh, and Juvie, Prison.

Also, recognize that John's MKULTRA is also very real, and out there on the loose. I have certainly lost more people to it than anything else, in fact, everything else combined, by a wide margin. Not through death, just zombies. I've seen the best minds of my generation, and the one after it, and the one after that, destroyed by substance abuse.

Doesn't mean that this substance abuse treatment network isn't just a cover for child slave labor or whatever. Most of the drug treatment programs I've seen are not nefarious, but just stupid and misguided.

Quote:
Those who survive and thrive after "treatment" at these hellholes do so by a form of learned/trained sociopathy that makes them absolutely perfect recruits to carry out "plans", in short high end triggermen, meant as mission capable rather than actual trigger-pullers, which are a dime a dozen.


I assume you're being literal like La Femme Nikita. I was aware that tptb had an army of child slaves, and I admit I didn't know where they were getting them from. The reason congress et al stay in line, or fall to a sex scandal, it's so easy to gnab em because tptb already have them on film raping some 10yo boy, stuff like that.

Quote:

I play on that myself, cause if you get to them early enough, you can re-integrate them into a semi-normal life, but the fanatic loyalty is still there, often to a degree that requires a very tight ROE if you wanna keep them out of trouble.


I would concur, I think the trick is to getting to them earlier, but I think the network which is out there in the wide open world, esp. in public schools is very destructive, and a very very real well established network, not just isolated pervasive social phenomenon.

Cheese souffle calls, I'll have to read up on this. We are talking specific targets here though, right? Not underlying concepts?

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Sunday, January 18, 2009 3:30 PM

DREAMTROVE


Whatever I say, I may disagree on a fair number of points, I have a lot of respect for you, you're fighting a tough fight, and you have great taste in sci-fi, and make a lot of insights, here on the forum. I'm a very skeptical man. If we disagree, that's not to say that the subject is closed, that I think I'm right and you're wrong, and there's no more to be said about it. But you might remember Chrisisall dubbed me "skeetshooter" for my tendency to shoot down anything that looked like it couldn't fly on its own, and might be made of clay. I'm actually quite good at shooting skeets, which is just an ironic coincidence, esp. for an avowed non-violent non-gun owner.

Okay, preliminary results. First off, let me say a couple of things:

1. I know the network pretty well now, and I can identify it pretty much within I'd say 60 seconds or so. I have a friend who is pretty heavy into this. This is a very real threat, and it's out there in the open, and not in an institution. It's tentacles creep down through society, mostly through the public school, but through many avenues, and reach up to the govt, cia, dea, and "nightshift" operations.

2. This means that there is a need for treatment, and as someone who has worked with drug addicts I know that this only works in isolation. the network is so pervasive that the addict will get back in touch with the source anywhere they are, and they will do so because it is the path of least resistance. The network serves the NWO to subdue the populous, make a profit, and control the population. It also is breeding a fine generation of mindless killing machines.

3. As a person who has worked at both state and private facilities, and been an inmate, I tend to agree with you that they are a racket for stamping human beings into dollar bills, almost without exception so far.

4. I'm familiar with the cult of synanon, aka hotel california, and that it's a nefarious organization.

5. The anti and pro forces involved in the drug, and drug rehabilitation and their backers in terms of the powers that be, and their interest in them needs to be examined logically, and fully. I am very well aware of tptb's interest in the drug market, their many interests, and the end goal.

Breaking for a second, I just want to point out a logical problem: Scientology is often pegged as a nefarious organization. I'm not a scientologist, obviously, but I can see that this is nonsense. I investigated it to the end point where I now know a lot of people in the rankings of CoS, and I fully understand where their coming from, how they operate, and how and why they exist, their goals, etc. The war against CoS was started by the network, with strong backing from pharma, and msm, which pharma has tremendous influence over. Scientologists can be wrong, misguided, and at times do some dumb things, but they are trying to correct what they see as a real problem, and it is, a very real problem.

Casting too wide a net for anti-drug groups as nefarious organizations is going to certainly nab CoS as one, and if you end up at war with CoS, you are fight for tptb.

Now, considering that logic, you can see that this is a very tricky game. I might throw in a possible monkey wrench here, but it's possible that the game is a step trickier than it appears.

Okay, back to the analysis.

6. http://www.caica.org/ was unconvincing. Since I have seen a lot of pro and anti on a lot of different things in society, virtually everything can be cast as the devil or the saviour. My gut reaction to this is that most of these groups are probably neither. They're in it to make a buck, maybe, or they're religious, or have faith in some sense, and really believe in their cause. As for this website, the accusations fall short of what I see in the open in the light of every day institutions, like the public school.

7. The network is my term for something which doesn't have a name, but I know it to exist as a coherent entity. In the US it has had a lot of programs like mkultra, a cia program you know. The network now has grown into Huxley's brave new world, a vital part of the new world order. It's goal is to create chemical dependencies, subdue and subjugate the population, create infighting, and as much as anything else, to make money. Bushes and Clintons are intimately connected with it, but it reaches much further than that.

8. Individual rights to self-treatment are a long way ideologically from the reliance on a criminal network which governs the nation, if not the world. But to the end user, it's one short step. A large portion of the crowd who says "up the NWO" is eating out of their hands at the same time.

9. If we happen to disagree on substance abuse, that's one thing, and we'll let that sleeping dog lie. I disagree with most people on it. IMHO, no one without a very solid background in neurochemistry should be taking anything. And no one at all should be taking some things.

10. I know the war on drugs is an abomination. It exists to increase the street price, and to create a silence to rats, and a cult of consumption.

11. http://www.thestraights.com/flowchart.htm is a wide net. I think that anything containing loose links is a conspiracy theory by definition. This admits to having loose links. If there are specific organizations and networks that can be tied to specific human trafficking, etc., that's one thing. But to cast a net too wide is probably a mistake.

12. The network is the #1 threat. There may be, and undoubtedly are, others. Ever tried curing heroin addiction? Cocaine? Meth? Even common addictions are hard to break. Kathy suggested to me that my work, if provable, was potentially nobel prize material. Could I do these things in open society, where the network's agents are everywhere? Not a chance. It's far too easy for a kid to fall to the predatory dealers, gangs, and sink into the self destructive substance abuse again. I don't run a residential care system, but I'm pretty sure it is the right way. Home systems don't even work with good caring parents. Isolation is essential.

13. A revolution against tptb is going to be useless if everyone is voluntarily spending all of their resources to buy sedatives and stimulants to disable themselves, acquire apathy, and increase internal strife. It's going to be doubly so if their source for this is the network of tptb.

Quote:
Basically, any full-time residential/incarcerative facility that uses behavior modification processes on children and/or teens that are known to be in fact harmful in physical or psychological fashion.


14. This requires more definition. My sister works at a rehabilitation facility, the VA. Her patients are not children, but there is little difference. The issues are much the same, they deal with substance abuse, as they are the substance abuse center for the VA. Sometimes the soldiers are in their teens, sometimes in their 80s, usually, they're gulf war or vietnam, lately, a lot of them have been Iraq war. Behavior mod is a broad term. Cognative restructuring is a pretty decent self help tactic, even if it's a psyop. Her residence are allowed to leave, just not allowed to come back if they do so. The stay is 4 months, and the success rate is low. She says that the inability of the facility to legally isolate them from the dealers who park just outside is a major issue, and the length of stay is just too short. Also, being govt, a lot of the newer more innovative tactics are not used, and the most common treatments involve replacing the addictive compound with some pharmaceutical which is little better than what they are replacing.

15. She also says residence can and do die. This is the US dept. of veterans affairs, not a fly by night organization. Residence of the program are users of very toxic substances, and have done themselves a lot of damage. They also are on medication, and they have access to dealers, they mix drugs, they go through withdrawal, which itself can be deadly, and sometimes they do incredibly stupid things, like drinking rubbing alcohol, which is deadly poison, because they need a drink. A random death at an institution is not an indictation of anything. We're talking about a population that in the streets, left to its own devices, if you take the 10,000 or so cases she has dealt with over a 4 month period, hell, a couple would die of random car crashes and stuff, but a lot would die of substance related problems.

16. For the record, I don't know anyone who died of drug overdoses, but a lot of people who have died of substance-related suicides, homocides, and car crashes.

Specific targets are one thing. Wide nets are another. I've toyed with the idea of hijacking the network, and trying to turn it against the NWO, which requires some very advanced neurochemistry. My aforementioned friend is about to get his PhD in chem, his neurochem is not up to my level, but he's very bright. We have been working on it, with some other people, and we have some mixed results so far. Cutting the chord from mommy network is the hardest part, but leaving the network in place, and slowly replacing it with a better model might be the way to go. But addiction is a very serious matter, and extreme measures might be called for, such as isolation. I know at the moment, the friend who gave me the elvenlied is on the brink. He's in a home rehab program, and is relocating. He's in grave danger of reverting, because all the pharma does is delay the inevitable, it doesn't break the cycle. When he crashes, he'll go crying to mommy network, I know it, and so does he, and half of him admits it, and the other half, well, it's that lost soul with one foot on the road to redemption.

If I were a betting man, I'd count him as a goner. And he's the closest to redemption of all the hardcore addicts I know. Mostly, those whose brains are not in a fog, too fried out to function, it's because they're brains are spattered against the ceiling.

I'll check into the neurochem angle now.

Reality is all.

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Sunday, January 18, 2009 4:29 PM

DREAMTROVE


FREM

Nobody is posting but me. I have that Elvenlied theme stuck in my head. Catchy. I might try to find an mp3.

I just read through all the neurochem. It was pretty light reading, and most of it fairly obvious. The insights in the male vs. female response was interesting, logical. This was all very familiar territory as you might have guessed, you don't practice neurochemistry, I hope, unless you're pretty well versed in the subject. The only other thing was the how the animal response systems if activated continuously would create desensitization, which of course they would.

I didn't find anything inaccurate in it, so the people doing this have done their homework. It's a field I know very well, as I said. Nothing here was really news, but it's an angle to gnaw on, the whole of both articles were well thought out and researched, if simplistic at times.

Prenatal substance exposure and early substance abuse is equally obviously going to have a more profound impact on receptor sensitivity, as is any sort of damage, heavy metal poisoning, etc.

But still, it is a beginning. The most obvious mechanism is the cortical response, but there is a lot not touched on here. I think there's much more going on, I wrote in another post about the effects of tryptomine build up on the system.

The competitive interaction of different neurochemical systems can also cause a shift balance in dominant systems. Repeated events would normally have more impact for the obvious reasons. Often Psychiatry exaggerates the impact of the singular chemical event. But the rumination factor is important, the reiteration of neurological events not only reinforces chemical states, but neural networking, creating superhighways within the brain for certain pathways. Obsession over a singular event, or even repeated one, is more damaging than the event itself, which probably is a foundation of the mental block.

Bruce Perry and co have a good primer here. I found it easy reading, but anyone not familiar with the subject, or even if you are, should follow the link and check it out. It's pretty rare for anyone in the mental health community to have the foggiest idea what's going on.

Btw, I'm glad to see you analyzing it on this level. This is the correct analysis, and it's a minority view in the medical establishment.

That said, to say that one upbringing is right, and another wrong, and one chemical state normal, and another abnormal, is a fine line. Clearly, there are some situations that are way out of line. I have a friend whose father killed his mother, whereupon he was adopted by Christian fundamentalists who told him he was cursed and locked him in a room for 10 years. That's extreme. I have some other stories like that, I'm sure you do too.

Oh, if you're interested, I posted some of my own personal experiences growing up on another thread, which I will not link to here, because I'm not encouraging through traffic. If I could email it... Maybe I'll just repost, on another off thread. I just don't want to encourage any more attacks on the person who I'm conversing with. Under the radar, as it were. Step carefully is all. Thanks.

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Monday, January 19, 2009 12:39 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Mmm, tasty rant-o-licious, but very informative.

Yes, these places still exist, and they number easily in the hundreds, we do some of our own investigating to determine whether a facility meets the criteria or not, but our people are far outclassed by Shelby on this.
http://www.isaccorp.org/
(Pathway is one of my pet hatreds, mind)

See, I got involved back when these places were considered naught more than a conspiracy theory or myth, and while originally we might have started out as a bunch of crack brained terroristic saboteurs retaliating against the collective that destroyed some of our friends - we eventually evolved from crowbars to cameras, cause exposure does far more damage to them.

Synanon was partially financed by the Monarch/Bluebird line of those schemes, many of which ran concurrently in competition with each other at the time, something we discovered by accident while sweeping their trashbins of documents they were not smart enough to shred first.

Considering the length and depth of involvement, which is now obvious, by now you can be assured I have massive amounts of evidence of all kinds, right down to in one case the security cam tapes of the incident itself - because of that evidence, the GAO report sponsored by Congressman George Miller, and our ability to make casualties public, the in-program deaths dropped off radically around October 2006, but till that point they were all too common.
(In fact I keep a casualty list, and have posted those of others a couple times.)

Now, I don't handle any of this from a drug abuse/addiction standpoint, what my interest comes from is that there are some folk, particularly in public schools, that wind up in these hellholes because the programming, so very counter to their own human instincts - doesn't stick, some people are incredibly resistant to it by nature, you see ?
And so, they get thrown into one of THESE places.

And we get em out, back then that involved more of a prison-break methodology but now it's more a matter of showing up with the right paperwork - the folks who run these places find Caica and all the rest to be an annoyance at best, but they *fear* running afoul of a collective that doesn't play by the unspoken rules, and will cough them up as the fee to avoid a head-on confrontation, of which there have been a few both messy and memorable on both ends, while not gonna discuss it beyond that, this came damn close to a private war in 2006, only ended by attrition and those running the facilities deciding to stop provoking it by ending some of their more drastic deeds.

And the ones we take - they more often than not wind up working for us, you understand.

As for neurochemistry, what I know would fit in a thimble, but a damn specific one, and I got enough empirical experience with broken people to know damn well Perry's on the right track as far as I can see from that angle, and Alice Miller is dead-bang on the psychological.

My place in it these days is more of a spiritual leader for an organisation built out of rescuees and survivors, since my primary skills are no longer so useful due to age and injury, too damn old and battered to be creeping these places in the dark with a camera and kitbag anymore, especially since there's plenty of younger, more able folk with better training to serve that purpose.

As for the Sembler/Lichfield/Kay collectives, they've got their own personal interest in nothing bad happening to me, cause if it does, the contents of certain safes and boxes will get wilded to the internet, law enforcement, the public at large, etc - and in such a way that action will *have* to be taken to pacify an outraged public, something I'd be inclined to do anyway were the contents not so damn personally incriminating.

Anyhows, you're perfectly capable of putting two plus two together here without me needing to add it up for ya, so I think you've finally gotten the general concept of what I do in a general form, which is all you really need to know about it.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Monday, January 19, 2009 2:06 AM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:
Mmm, tasty rant-o-licious, but very informative.


My apologies, but it's a ridiculous hour, and so I'm not thinking as clearly a I should, I'll scan through this, fall asleep, and try again in the morning.

Quote:
Yes, these places still exist, and they number easily in the hundreds, we do some of our own investigating to determine whether a facility meets the criteria or not, but our people are far outclassed by Shelby on this. http://www.isaccorp.org/ (Pathway is one of my pet hatreds, mind)


Quote:
See, I got involved back when these places were considered naught more than a conspiracy theory or myth, and while originally we might have started out as a bunch of crack brained terroristic saboteurs retaliating against the collective that destroyed some of our friends - we eventually evolved from crowbars to cameras, cause exposure does far more damage to them.


It's a tricky, tricky world. Always be unsure, and suspicious of yourself, and your allies. Being suspicious of your enemies is easy. But we all end up fighting for causes we believe in, but whether or not we are fighting for the right side, or indeed, if there is a right side to fight for, that's an issue... It's all so much more complicated than it seems.

For example: Did the women's rights movement enslave women? It's just a question, that no feminist wants to hear. Worse yet, was it created and supported for that purpose? And what was the purpose of that? To decrease the price of labor? To decrease the population? Or to remove the mother from the home, so it could become, the state is mother, the state is father.

Likely all of the above. Between the education system and the MSM, the state is a single parent. But as I said, it's always more complicated than it appears, isn't it just? I could tell a story or two about working for the EU education system, and its ultimate agenda, or what I suspect, and what some of the people within it suspect. It's just complicated, is all.

btw, you are right, the camera is a powerful weapon.

Quote:
Synanon was partially financed by the Monarch/Bluebird line of those schemes, many of which ran concurrently in competition with each other at the time, something we discovered by accident while sweeping their trashbins of documents they were not smart enough to shred first.


No one is ever careful enough. It's a danger. I think about this because, as someone, maybe chris, posted, what happens when we are tptb? Will we be as vulnerable to this sort of attack. I'm fairly familiar with the agenda of the larger globalist organizations. I suspect small cults like Synanon being a mixture of three things: those desiring to start a cult, those who actually believe they are helping, and those that just want to make a quick buck. It's possible that there is more to it, but even human trafficking rings are just a product for the avarice appetite of the elite, not a threat on the level of globalism itself.

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Considering the length and depth of involvement, which is now obvious, by now you can be assured I have massive amounts of evidence of all kinds, right down to in one case the security cam tapes of the incident itself - because of that evidence, the GAO report sponsored by Congressman George Miller, and our ability to make casualties public, the in-program deaths dropped off radically around October 2006, but till that point they were all too common. (In fact I keep a casualty list, and have posted those of others a couple times.)


Govt. intervention may not be the assistance you need. The govt. has a vested interest in putting an end to private education. As I see it, public education is the more major threat. If we are to ever establish an alternative power structure, we are going to need to create our own institutions, and that is our right as Americans, but in the increasingly state run socialist atmosphere, that could become impossible. If so, don't ever pin a hope on taking over the public system and using it for good, that will never happen. You will just be swept up by the machine. I don't envy Barack Obama is all I can say. To rule the machine is probably a position to be pitied. The machine will continue to be the monster it has basically always been.

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Now, I don't handle any of this from a drug abuse/addiction standpoint, what my interest comes from is that there are some folk, particularly in public schools, that wind up in these hellholes because the programming, so very counter to their own human instincts - doesn't stick, some people are incredibly resistant to it by nature, you see ? And so, they get thrown into one of THESE places.


I'm not sure which programming you are referring to? The public schools are a hell hole, and their programming is so very counter to human instinct.
But then, what we want, what works, it's not always so clear. A number of things... In the Soviet system, single sex education was the rule, as it used to be here. Co-ed schools have a pro-instinctive nature to them that feeds the primal conflict, and prevents learning. If this were a goal, then it would be the goal of tptb. Conflict, a breeding ground for the network, and ignorant populous, crushing people under feet.

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And we get em out, back then that involved more of a prison-break methodology but now it's more a matter of showing up with the right paperwork - the folks who run these places find Caica and all the rest to be an annoyance at best, but they *fear* running afoul of a collective that doesn't play by the unspoken rules, and will cough them up as the fee to avoid a head-on confrontation, of which there have been a few both messy and memorable on both ends, while not gonna discuss it beyond that, this came damn close to a private war in 2006, only ended by attrition and those running the facilities deciding to stop provoking it by ending some of their more drastic deeds.


A danger always being that if you were to take on an innocent institution which was itself designed to fight the powers that be, you might get the same result, the same reaction, and be unaware of whose side you were defacto fighting for. I'm not saying that nefarious institutions don't exist, I've been there, and seen them, public and private. But the idea, by its nature is not nefarious. Fighting the network and tptb would definitely take some of the tactics that your opponents are using. It's just a tricky, tricky world. For the record, no question that an institution that is the reincarnation of Synanon is bound to be nefarious in nature. In fact, I wouldn't be too surprised if some of the networks own crack, double entendre intended, street dealers, were trained in institutions like these ones.

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And the ones we take - they more often than not wind up working for us, you understand.


I expected as much. But of course they would. You have just used the same tactic as their opponents. You've rescued them from the disaster that their life has become, ie. this institution, which, even if the institution were well intended and the attendents voluntary, this is the same tactic the institution had used, saving them from the hell of addiction. I've been prisoner to both addiction and institution, and I can say there's not much to choose between the two. Sure, the institution is worse, upon reflection. It doesn't mean that it has to be so. The addiction is very scary, and life threatening, a loss of control. To be swept up in the network would be worse. I think that if institutions were to become state run, or even state supervised, then things would definitely get worse, in terms of any possible efficacy of the project. The war on drugs we all know to be run by and for the drug network.

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As for neurochemistry, what I know would fit in a thimble, but a damn specific one, and I got enough empirical experience with broken people to know damn well Perry's on the right track as far as I can see from that angle, and Alice Miller is dead-bang on the psychological.


I could write a book on neurochemistry, and some day I might. There are a lot of people on the edge of this field, psychiatry, neuro-psychology, neuro-psychiatry, etc., that essentially don't know a hill of beans, or for the most part, a single bean. Perry is spot on, but much of it was obvious. Of course, he opened with the line that much of this was obvious, which is an admission to be credited. The effect on neurochemistry of substance abuse is radical. There was a comment on the video of the phone calls for the GAO testimony, of some guy saying "whole grains, foods, low carb, lots of exercise, we find these problems go away." That guy is oversimplifying the problem, but he's also not wrong.

Substance abuse issues in this society reach far beyond what I term the network, the drug underground that gives away its structure by the consistency of methods, beliefs, even language of its members, but also that we have investigated to the extent that we know we're not seeing something that isn't there. And this does tie directly into tptb, Bush and Clinton are highly connected, as is Bin Laden, and the overseas network, the inner city gangs, even the rise of neonazism is all about production and distribution of the product.

Substance abuse also includes not just alcohol and nicotine, but caffeine, and countless over the counter and prescription medications. Adderall for ADHD? This is the one of the most insane ideas ever. Feeding amphetamines to children is the surest way to create a generation of mindless killing machines. Of course, this is no accident... It's exactly what tptb have in mind. And for the record, anyone who thinks that marijuana use is innocent, harmless, and an opposition to the powers that be is themselves an unknowing footsoldier for tptb. <--- this is my most unpopular comment ever, and always, and I try to never say it, but because this is the topic, I thought I would mention it because there is probably nothing more true or more dangerous in the entire field of discussion we are in. If you find this includes you, it's something to think long and hard about. I know it includes a fair number of members of the board. Substance abuse issues, and people's right to maintain their own self destructive behaviour, and submit to the powers that be, to mommy network, for that small hand out of a brain-destroying dose of fleeting bliss, this is just one of the things that pulls people into a libertarian community like this, or the Ron Paul for president, so, without the chance to email directly, I'm just going to cross my fingers and hope that no one else is reading this paragraph :)

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My place in it these days is more of a spiritual leader for an organisation built out of rescuees and survivors, since my primary skills are no longer so useful due to age and injury, too damn old and battered to be creeping these places in the dark with a camera and kitbag anymore, especially since there's plenty of younger, more able folk with better training to serve that purpose.


Ah, such is the life of the superspy

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As for the Sembler/Lichfield/Kay collectives, they've got their own personal interest in nothing bad happening to me, cause if it does, the contents of certain safes and boxes will get wilded to the internet, law enforcement, the public at large, etc - and in such a way that action will *have* to be taken to pacify an outraged public, something I'd be inclined to do anyway were the contents not so damn personally incriminating.


Lol. But don't overestimate the damage caused by information, or even the power of an overwhelming majority. The power belongs to the power, and the success of anyone else is generally because either tptb support the idea, or because they failed to notice it was there. Both are angles worth exploring, largely, I'd like to be the latter.

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Anyhows, you're perfectly capable of putting two plus two together here without me needing to add it up for ya, so I think you've finally gotten the general concept of what I do in a general form, which is all you really need to know about it.


Thanks. Communication is a two way street of course, and not to bring up a divisive thread topic, someday you may find that you're in the business of saving israelis from hamas while a much higher casualty count is stacking up on the other side. Which is not to say that doing so in not a noble cause, of course it is. Just giving you something else to gnaw on.

My interest is to deflect the tptb, essentially, because I know their ultimate agenda. I never want to be in direct conflict with them, just to be the small hand that tips the flow of the stream. Another Taoist image. The river rages to the sea, if you had to, could you stop it in its tracks? Or might it be better to simple deflect it into a different course.

I wanted to add these items as great destructive forces:

1. Government, and its legislation of our personal lives, in every respect (even substance abuse, I want to steer it, not stop it, as the latter is not possible, and I want to do so with subtlety, not by legislation, even if that tactic could actually work, which I don't believe it can.)

2. The nuclear family. Elvenlied plays on this, but it's very plain that this is a very serious issue. Our own traditional society did not hinge on this institution. Most parents are not equipped to deal with children by themselves, and often the nuissance of raising a child breaks them with stress, they lash out, and restrict, and generally damage the child. It's important to be able to see every point of view, including that of the abusive parent, who is generally not nefarious in their intent, but overwhelmed with the responsibility, often the dual responsibilities of childcare and wage slave labor for the debt machine. I've watched it happen, even to kind and gentle people, as they degenerate into monsters. Traditional society was more engaged in the rearing of its young. The nuclear family is something we imported at some point, probably from the middle east. Certainly to us by way of Rome, but just as certainly, imported by Rome at some point. The institution helps government maintain order, and keeps the populace busy, but I doubt it's best for the children. My own family was fairly stable, but at times I felt like an island surrounded by others while I watched them crumble to the sea. Not that my family life was without problems. Feel free to read about them in the general forum topic on death, as I said, I ask you not to snark that thread, and look closely, as the issue is serious.

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Monday, January 19, 2009 5:17 AM

DREAMTROVE


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KWICKO

Where to begin? 7"? Really? Is that all? That doesn't seem very tall. Maybe you meant 7 feet...


Spinal Tap error, my apologies.

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And he was obviously a democrat. If he were a Republican, he'd have shoved his hand down your pants while crying about how shamed he was about it.


lol.

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Oh, by the way - it wasn't me! I'm not exactly 7 feet tall, but I'm not far from it at 6'9"...


Watch out for david. I have a friend who's 6'8". You play basketball? You get that a lot probably.

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Monday, January 19, 2009 7:24 AM

DREAMTROVE


Bump

just because Frem is on, and hasn't responded to my exceptionally long rant (above).

Meanwhile, John is posting and it's giving me a headache. I think I'll pop a valium and put on some music. maybe I can get that lilium on mp3. It's catchy. do some reading, or maybe fall asleep.

Bohemian moloch worshipper is all.

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Monday, January 19, 2009 7:40 AM

FREMDFIRMA


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Govt. intervention may not be the assistance you need.

As an anarchist, you can pretty well imagine my reaction at the mere thought, I don't believe in Govt as the solution to ANY problem.
But I do believe in people.

What kicked off the GAO intervention was a certain congressman George Miller, who got very suspicious of these places and decided to start hitting them after hours without calling ahead - and prettymuch got the shock of his entire jaded life, which turned it personal for him.

I don't count on them to DO anything mind you, but if they wind up setting any kind of standards and limits on what these places cannot legally do to those under their care we can document endless violations (cause we know damn well they're not gonna change how they work, only try to hide it better) and cause all manner of trouble for them on that end.

Turning one element of the system against another, back on itself like Ouroborous the serpent, swallowing it's own tail, is one of my best tactics when going up against such bad odds - and it's not that hard to do.
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As I see it, public education is the more major threat.

Not gonna debate that a bit, but that's a battle you can fight in the open without the need for smoke & mirrors, deniability and such.
At least for now...
http://www.schoolandstate.org/roadtofreedom.htm
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I'm not sure which programming you are referring to? The public schools are a hell hole, and their programming is so very counter to human instinct.

Both, public schools employ a form of social engineering that is extremely counter to natural human instincts and I feel that this is the root cause of most of the aberrant behavior they wind up endlessly whining about as the two sets of radically different imperatives clash within the minds of children causing all manner of psychological issues which manifest in as many ways as there are human beings.

And so they try to medicate it, Ritalin, Prozac, whatever - which in the end will fail cause nature itself will work against them and the children of those children, and their children, will become resistant to the drugs, something we're beginning to see already.

And then for those who resist both the programming, and the drugs, or who's parents won't "play ball" with the system, those kids get tossed into 'second chance' schools like I did, and from there... the camps.

Not sure if you can imagine the environment that was, to be punished and ostracised for no better reason than seeing through the masquerade and refusing to play along, having friend after friend "dissappeared" to the camps, never knowing when it might happen to you.

In the end I walked at the very moment I could legally get away with it, and then went and bagged up the paper/GED at sixteen (there was a way you could do so back then, if you knew how) and never looked back.

Some few of us dropouts, rejects and renegades then decided to do something about that shit, and we did - most of them didn't stick, a couple committed suicide, cause it's pretty hard on folk to deal with this, but in the end a force does exist to oppose the camps and those who run them, and with or without any specific individual, including me, it will endure.
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But the idea, by its nature is not nefarious. Fighting the network and tptb would definitely take some of the tactics that your opponents are using. It's just a tricky, tricky world.

Indeed it is, one of the reasons we use such a tight ROE is to prevent that very problem, to be honest, I HATE zealots and will not work with em cause they leap before they look on mere suspicion and muddy the issue.
So we're very keen on actual confirmation, even in the case of WWASP facilities which are by their very form and function almost absolutely assured to be abusive, but we get confirmation FIRST.
An Amateur makes assumptions, a Professional makes SURE.

And yes, using their own tactics against them is prettymuch how I work, and why the wide-eyed naive idealists don't like me any better than tptb, or in a few cases hate me even worse - oh well, sometimes getting the job done requires getting dirty, and when it does, best that it be done by someone who's gonna do it right, than some hamfisted amateur who's very shock and horror at the sight of this stuff up close is gonna mentally cripple them just when they need their wits the most.

That's why I prefer the hardcases with existing personal evils of their own in significant degree - once you've come to terms with your internal demons and wrestled them into submission if not obedience, it tends to insulate one from external horrors, you need *nasty* people to do this work, cause it will completely demolish decent folk in a hurry.
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I think that if institutions were to become state run, or even state supervised, then things would definitely get worse, in terms of any possible efficacy of the project.

Some of them are, and your assertation they'd be worse is entirely correct, they ARE worse, because certain levels of accountability are removed on any government run or sponsored enterprise.
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That guy is oversimplifying the problem, but he's also not wrong.

I've seen a lot of evidence, both empirical and a few studies which link some food additives to aberrent behavior, one study from the UK in particular was quite relevant - but so far no one is willing to acknowledge much less address that aspect.

As for drugs, even weed - a person is welcome to destroy themSELF in any fashion they desire to, my theological beliefs specifically forbid interference with that up to and including an absolute prohibition on interfering with most suicides or even lifesaving care in some cases, but that's me and my personal beliefs, which is why I don't address the drug aspect of the issue, my take is similar to yours for the most part, but due to those beliefs I cannot intervene when someone makes a conscious choice to do that to themselves.

Now, when it's *forced* on someone, unwilling and for reasons having nothing to do with their own best interests, I'll go fucking berserk, but in a cold, calculating way that ends up with someone paying dearly for it, sure.
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such is the life of the superspy

LMAO, I was always, always far more cat burglar than anything else, something learned and honed in youthful poverty and indiscretions, and refined, even reformed, in the end to some pretty good purposes, I do work in the security business at this time, primarily residential/industrial security against break-ins and creepers - which means I know *exactly* how to properly secure a place against em cause I used to BE them.

One of my prime tactics is playing on folks perceived respect of any displayed authority is automatically legitimate and amazingly wide psychological blind spots when it comes to human beings outside of their monkeysphere - you become naught more than part of the scenery to them, seen but never noticed.

A set of coveralls and a janitors cart will get you into all but the most secure of office buildings, a press pass and a suit, most political gatherings, who even notices one more cab in a major city (I used to drive one till recently) or another flunky in scrubs at a hospital ?

And imma do it to a certain appliance store in the new future, too, but that's personal - I know damn well that in-store special is a bait and switch, so imma throw on an employee vest and creep the stockroom, and when they try to tell me they don't have any of those two items, imma tell em *exactly* where to look with the Consumer Protection folk handy on speed dial.
Toldja, imma asshole.
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the success of anyone else is generally because either tptb support the idea, or because they failed to notice it was there.

Again, that's a big part of our MO, the target never EVER sees it coming until it's too late to do anything about it.

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great destructive forces

Again, imma Anarchist, you couldn't print most of my opinions about Govt in a family magazine, and that's a fact.

As for the nuclear family, I wouldn't know - imma social feral, the latchkey kid of a single mother who more or less worked herself to death for the combine just trying to stay one step ahead of the bill collectors, but was not only fully supportive of me making my own decisions, but also subtly guiding me to become her revenge on a society she felt was abusive, unjust and destructive.

Believe me, I am well aware of the debt-slavery cycle trap however, I've watched it destroy so many people over the years that I will never see it as anything but destructive.

We might not be on the same page or even the same side regarding this or that or what have you, but anything that dumps sand in the gears of the machine is of value to me even if I've not figure out how to use it yet.

I wouldn't say that I am any better, mind - just that I want society and Govt to leave folk who want no part of it alone, something which the meddling bastards are utterly incapable of doing by their very nature, and so, if it's them or me....

"We meddle - People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome."
-River Tam

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Monday, January 19, 2009 7:42 AM

FREMDFIRMA


I was busy writin a post you silly farmer, and my fingers are cold from bein outside (DAMN it's cold out there) so it took a while.

-F

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Monday, January 19, 2009 8:06 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:
maybe I can get that lilium on mp3.

Here.
http://mp3-codes.com/mp3/play/id/15180

-F

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Monday, January 19, 2009 11:52 AM

DREAMTROVE


Thanks for the mp3

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Quote:
Govt. intervention may not be the assistance you need.



As an anarchist, you can pretty well imagine my reaction at the mere thought, I don't believe in Govt as the solution to ANY problem.
But I do believe in people.


Oh, I don't. People, individually, are pretty decent, but collectively, they get manipulated by the worst agenda-driven members.
I'd like a meritocracy of some sort. I think that independence for all is a fantasy, and without some sort of collective defense, we end up in a bullyocracy.

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What kicked off the GAO intervention was a certain congressman George Miller, who got very suspicious of these places and decided to start hitting them after hours without calling ahead - and prettymuch got the shock of his entire jaded life, which turned it personal for him. I don't count on them to DO anything mind you, but if they wind up setting any kind of standards and limits on what these places cannot legally do to those under their care we can document endless violations (cause we know damn well they're not gonna change how they work, only try to hide it better) and cause all manner of trouble for them on that end.


I don't know if you've been a resident of any care facility, but ones with complete legitimacy are little more than torture rooms at times, and can do a lot of personal damage. In the psych wards, things far less than admitting that you had even watch Elvenlied is enough to move you to permanent care.

The official places are all kind of regulated. I only worry that more govt. regulation could prevent the establishment of an independent education system which is desparately needed.

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Turning one element of the system against another, back on itself like Ouroborous the serpent, swallowing it's own tail, is one of my best tactics when going up against such bad odds - and it's not that hard to do.


I watch these guys who cloak one piece of legislation under another, and feed grass roots movements to get their aims in the powers that be.

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As I see it, public education is the more major threat.


Not gonna debate that a bit, but that's a battle you can fight in the open without the need for smoke & mirrors, deniability and such.
At least for now...
http://www.schoolandstate.org/roadtofreedom.htm


I'm fairly certain that the *power* which started the creationist movement was the public school system, which wanted to make private education look ridiculous. The lunatic who started it was undoubtedly real, but there are lunatics out there to start anything.

I agree that the best way to do anything is under the light of day. IMHO, child labor laws have been exploited to prevent any school from being self sufficient. Sure, there were child sweatshops once, but kids, particularly older kids, could cooperatively pay for the cost of education, if it were legal for them to do so. Starting a private school system in this country is like starting a passenger rail system. It would be easy, and an automatic hit, if it weren't for tptb.

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I'm not sure which programming you are referring to? The public schools are a hell hole, and their programming is so very counter to human instinct.


Both, public schools employ a form of social engineering that is extremely counter to natural human instincts and I feel that this is the root cause of most of the aberrant behavior they wind up endlessly whining about as the two sets of radically different imperatives clash within the minds of children causing all manner of psychological issues which manifest in as many ways as there are human beings.


Both public school and nuclear family are key elements of Lucy's intial destruction, and then of course, the govt. run permanent care.

But you're right of course. Specifically which imperatives?

I've watched other self destruct as they switch gears towards striving for popularity over striving towards learning. When they hit puberty, the former takes over completely. One of the sharpest kids I ever knew was this black kid in an all white school. The population contained a fair number of racists, and they tortured him endlessly. Eventually, he put his thinking cap on, and reinvented himself as "the source." Both his parents had been killed in separate accidents, his family structure was exactly like Obama's, white mother, black father, black father deserted, leaving him with white mother, who died, and by then, black father was also dead, and so he ended up living with white grandmother, who was far too old to deal with the situation. So he took over the house, and made it drug central, movies, pizza, freely available, making videos, buying a lot of musical equipment, he became Mr. Cool. He had put his brains to work to achieve what he really wanted: Popularity. In doing so, he consumed so many drugs that the genius who created him was no longer there. The reward was also IMHO, less than stellar. It didn't get him a girlfriend in school, or rich, or anything, he ended up stealing his grandmother's life savings, running away, and last spotted in a trailer somewhere with drugs, where he was last seen, with a trailer park girl, and a warrant out. But he did in high school achieve "popularity."

I have lots of ideas of how to design a system that would prevent these sorts of situations. You'd never get away with segregating the black kid, even if that's what the black kid desperately wanted, but in all forms of peer-torture, I think some amount of shuffling of students would be useful, so they didn't always have the same peers, a constant chance to start over, without doing something radically self destructive.

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And so they try to medicate it, Ritalin, Prozac, whatever - which in the end will fail cause nature itself will work against them and the children of those children, and their children, will become resistant to the drugs, something we're beginning to see already.


Oh, don't get me started on psychopharmacology. I rant enough already
I wouldn't say "resistant" but that's close. The fact is that there's nothing wrong with these kids, there's something wrong with the system.
Pharma doesn't know jack about neurochem, or biochem, that's not how they work. There is so much money in any novel "patentable" compound that is bioactive in some way, that they just keep cranking out new drugs. Since no natural compound can be patented, most drugs are made by starting with a natural compound, and modifying it, to make it less natural, adding fluorines, methyl groups, etc., so each generation is more toxic than the last.
Then, they have lots of cages of mice and rats with various conditions, and they test until a study shows "Hey, these rats seem to have less trouble with their arthritis when taking toxamine" And so toxamine gets passed as an arthritis drug without anyone knowing how or why it works, and what the side effects might be. The FDA has been run by a Merck exec for the last 25 year straight, so anyone else, just pay the bribe, and you're in. Now toxamine hits the streets at "name you price, really." Insurance is complicit in this, but nowhere near as bad as a national healthcare plan could be, worst of all, a national enforced ownership of private insurance, the cost gets passed on. The more profitable this racket is, the more old drugs will be replaced with new ones, which are further from nature, and less tested and have more unknown side effects to find.

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And then for those who resist both the programming, and the drugs, or who's parents won't "play ball" with the system, those kids get tossed into 'second chance' schools like I did, and from there... the camps.


I see. I didn't have a second chance school. I was victim to something more mundane. One of my sisters is disabled, due to my mother's exposure to a toxic chemical in a household product, that years later, too late to win a suit, the company admited was a "teratogenic" a word I had to look up. Anyway, there was nothing wrong with her brain, in fact, she was at the top of her class. The school found out that it was elligible for a big hunk of cash if they had a students with disabilities program, for which they would need one retarded student. When they found out that physcially "disabled" didn't count, they took my sister out of her classes and put her in a solitary study of kindergarten level stuff, all day every day. Of course she got very depressed, and my mom got furious, and the school said, "this is the way it's going to be, or none of you are allowed in school."

Personally, I can't say that I learned a great deal in four years of 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th grade, I usually knew the stuff before I got there, maybe always, benefit of being the youngest. But I missed out on the social environment, which was crushing. There was so secondary social environment outside of school, but that which I made, which slowly disintegrated as my friends moved away. If you read that other thread, you got that part already.

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Not sure if you can imagine the environment that was, to be punished and ostracised for no better reason than seeing through the masquerade and refusing to play along, having friend after friend "dissappeared" to the camps, never knowing when it might happen to you.


I have a pretty good imagination. It's why I write, again, check the other thread, I think you'll get it. But, yes, I see.

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In the end I walked at the very moment I could legally get away with it, and then went and bagged up the paper/GED at sixteen (there was a way you could do so back then, if you knew how) and never looked back.


I was just too far from the arm of the law. The law was a guy named digger, and still is, he was old then, and he's 104 or something now. Spent most of his time chasing down and killing people's dogs, cats, and arresting teenagers for having more fun than he was. He didn't give a damn about the actual law, and still doesn't.

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Some few of us dropouts, rejects and renegades then decided to do something about that shit, and we did - most of them didn't stick, a couple committed suicide, cause it's pretty hard on folk to deal with this, but in the end a force does exist to oppose the camps and those who run them, and with or without any specific individual, including me, it will endure.


I see. People commit suicide a lot in this society. With everyone I know, it's so high a % anecdotally, that it has to be higher that the official figures. Same with military deaths. When everyone knows half a dozen... or more. Oh, late, but useful advise. 5-htp is a cheap herbal, and stops suicidal tendencies. It's pretty much 100% effective. people shouldn't take more than 200mg/day, and if they're at that dose, not for more than a year. 50 or 100 should do for normal depression, 200 is for people like I was, or a certain person on the forum comes to mind. Not an issue for your colleagues I imagine, anymore, but for the kids. Though it can strike at any age, when the illusion comes tumbling down, or for whatever reason.

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But the idea, by its nature is not nefarious. Fighting the network and tptb would definitely take some of the tactics that your opponents are using. It's just a tricky, tricky world.


Okay, I'm going to just toss this out here. Here's the danger I see: The public school system is one from which some people need to be saved. I'd like to have a private boarding school system someday. Boarding because most of the disasters, maybe all of them, home was one of the things they really needed to get away from as much as school. If I ever succeed in that endeavour, I don't want you hunting me down. Let me know what some signs or triggers might be that might make other kids view my school as a place people "disappear to" and then go to war with it. This is something I worry about. I get that there are nefarious institutions out there, I've been institutionalized three times as I said before, and I've worked in a couple, so I know. I've seen some things.

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Indeed it is, one of the reasons we use such a tight ROE is to prevent that very problem, to be honest, I HATE zealots and will not work with em cause they leap before they look on mere suspicion and muddy the issue. So we're very keen on actual confirmation, even in the case of WWASP facilities which are by their very form and function almost absolutely assured to be abusive, but we get confirmation FIRST. An Amateur makes assumptions, a Professional makes SURE.


Okay, some examples would be nice. I envision my school idea as being like Giles' Library. I actually think that Joss was seeded that as an alternative educational model into the public consciousness, as in look: Distant and benevolent overseer helps kids while they help each other be very eager and motivated about learning.

Obviously I'm not about to waterboard the kids, but I don't want anything that can be misconstrued as nefarious. BTW, I alway hated time outs, my school didn't have them, it had demerits, but places I worked for had them. I can tell some horror stories there, which led to fights with bosses, which led to me being fired, and no one at the state level listening.

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And yes, using their own tactics against them is pretty much how I work, and why the wide-eyed naive idealists don't like me any better than tptb, or in a few cases hate me even worse - oh well, sometimes getting the job done requires getting dirty, and when it does, best that it be done by someone who's gonna do it right, than some hamfisted amateur who's very shock and horror at the sight of this stuff up close is gonna mentally cripple them just when they need their wits the most.


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That's why I prefer the hardcases with existing personal evils of their own in significant degree - once you've come to terms with your internal demons and wrestled them into submission if not obedience, it tends to insulate one from external horrors, you need *nasty* people to do this work, cause it will completely demolish decent folk in a hurry.


Oh, yeah, that's probably easier than the having your face ripped off method, which also works ;)

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I think that if institutions were to become state run, or even state supervised, then things would definitely get worse, in terms of any possible efficacy of the project.

Some of them are, and your assertation they'd be worse is entirely correct, they ARE worse, because certain levels of accountability are removed on any government run or sponsored enterprise.

True, also, govt. sucks at everything, because it never evolves or adapts to change its methods.

What I say in my economic argument when I want to really slay the opposition is "The free market is evolution, socialism is intelligent design."
But it's very true. I have serious issues with capitalism, but govt. oh, I'll spare the rant for sake of space and time, we agree.

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That guy is oversimplifying the problem, but he's also not wrong.

I've seen a lot of evidence, both empirical and a few studies which link some food additives to aberrent behavior, one study from the UK in particular was quite relevant - but so far no one is willing to acknowledge much less address that aspect.


It's an issue.

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As for drugs, even weed - a person is welcome to destroy themSELF in any fashion they desire to, my theological beliefs specifically forbid interference with that up to and including an absolute prohibition on interfering with most suicides or even lifesaving care in some cases, but that's me and my personal beliefs, which is why I don't address the drug aspect of the issue, my take is similar to yours for the most part, but due to those beliefs I cannot intervene when someone makes a conscious choice to do that to themselves.


Ah, but here's the rub: Weed an similar starter drugs, I avoid the "gateway" term, ... are often, most often, given to children under intense peer pressure, either toke up or you're out, and while you're at it, have a drink, and man, you should try some shrooms, acid, heroin, crack. I can't say I know an addict who for the purposes of personal enjoyment sought out drugs for their personal use. Everyone has a story of how it happened, and the black kid I described above, is the only one I know who sought them out, and was not peer pressured into them at a young age. Society is also way off the mark on the age. Most of the addicts I know, that age is around 10. I'm not about to put a group of ten year olds having an argument in a room full of assault rifles and grenades and say "guys, here are some tools, work it out." But that's what the drug scene is, it's the popularity peer pressure scene, young kids, or pubescent dateless wonders, excluded because they're not in the mutually criminal society. Afterall, if you're with a drug using group and you're not using, you might tell. Also, you're not a paying customer. I think those are probably more potent then the "you're not cool" or "I feel bad about my addiction and you're not helping by not joining me in my misery."

I intervened in a pending declared suicide recently of a 12 yo, who had been the victim of a Lucy like ostracizing. I told her some negotiating tactics, and told her to take it directly to the person who was starting the war againt her, and it turned out the other girl was very jealous of the suicidal girl, and had decided to destroy her. It was very much a Marcy-Cordelia situation. Anyway, that resolved the issue. If it weren't circumstantial, or that didn't do it, I would say 5-htp. But I value the sanctity of life, and children aren't to be sacrificed at the alter. I guess if I believed in law, I'd believe in a smoking age, but like drinking, these should be post college choices. The normal health development of a human should not be interfered with, but it can be destroyed very early on. I had a friend who was snorting coke at 10. Cause step-daddy wanted to share. Step dad was a fuck up, and thought the boys, 10 and 12, should enjoy the ride he was enjoying. The younger one committed suicide at 28, the other was has been basically back and forth between institutionalized and homeless life-long, and it's not that long, I think the clock has run out. These kids never had a chance.

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Now, when it's *forced* on someone, unwilling and for reasons having nothing to do with their own best interests, I'll go fucking berserk, but in a cold, calculating way that ends up with someone paying dearly for it, sure.


I think judgement takes more than choice, it takes knowledge. A child may choose to jump from a building unaware that it will kill him. I mean, if you saw a 10 yo eating a salamander, you'd stop him right? I mean you wouldn't sit there and think "muahahahahah, salamanders are deadly poisonous, that kid'll be toes up in a couple hours, but he doesn't know that. Hah. I'm so smart because I didn't eat a salamander and am still alive!"

But also, my anti-drug thing is much about the network of tptb, and the destructive substances they circulate for profit. I would try to rescue someone from any enslavement to tptb. If there are safe substances that people can party with, and there are, I know some, that I'm not posting here, because I don't want them banned. But most druggies cannot separate safe from non-safe. Mj is very not safe, it's up there with alcohol nicotine and caffeine, probably the most destructive substance abuse I've seen is crack, alcohol, mj. The hardest to get away from are heroin, nicotine, and caffeine.
Both of those lists are in descending order.

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such is the life of the superspy

LMAO, I was always, always far more cat burglar than anything else, something learned and honed in youthful poverty and indiscretions, and refined, even reformed, in the end to some pretty good purposes, I do work in the security business at this time, primarily residential/industrial security against break-ins and creepers - which means I know *exactly* how to properly secure a place against em cause I used to BE them.


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One of my prime tactics is playing on folks perceived respect of any displayed authority is automatically legitimate and amazingly wide psychological blind spots when it comes to human beings outside of their monkeysphere - you become naught more than part of the scenery to them, seen but never noticed.


This sounds like me and my tomatoes. Care to elaborate?

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A set of coveralls and a janitors cart will get you into all but the most secure of office buildings, a press pass and a suit, most political gatherings, who even notices one more cab in a major city (I used to drive one till recently) or another flunky in scrubs at a hospital ?


Or a museum to steal stuff :)

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And imma do it to a certain appliance store in the new future, too, but that's personal - I know damn well that in-store special is a bait and switch, so imma throw on an employee vest and creep the stockroom, and when they try to tell me they don't have any of those two items, imma tell em *exactly* where to look with the Consumer Protection folk handy on speed dial.


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Toldja, imma asshole.


No, you said you weren't a nice guy, but this just seems like a not noble cause. A retailer ripping off a customer is sort of like a college student skipping class. It's what they do to survive ;) All retail places are marginal bankruptcy. Here's where I draw the line and say "sink or swim." If someone falls for a racket, then that's their problem, it's a tricky world. Better get used to it. I do try to spare people from things that amount to eternal slavery, like double mortgage infinite credit scenarios. Actually, I would say something, but not to the store. I don't need pointless adversaries. The circuit cities of the world are barely going to last the decade if they're really lucky.

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the success of anyone else is generally because either tptb support the idea, or because they failed to notice it was there.

Again, that's a big part of our MO, the target never EVER sees it coming until it's too late to do anything about it.


Good move.

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Again, imma Anarchist, you couldn't print most of my opinions about Govt in a family magazine, and that's a fact.


Lol.

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As for the nuclear family, I wouldn't know - imma social feral, the latchkey kid of a single mother who more or less worked herself to death for the combine just trying to stay one step ahead of the bill collectors, but was not only fully supportive of me making my own decisions, but also subtly guiding me to become her revenge on a society she felt was abusive, unjust and destructive.


Ah, all slaves to tptb.

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Believe me, I am well aware of the debt-slavery cycle trap however, I've watched it destroy so many people over the years that I will never see it as anything but destructive.


I'll grant it's up there with drug abuse. I wouldn't say "as bad" because it is possible to free someone from the debt slavery cycle, and they're fairly in tact. After years of hardcore substance abuse, there's often nothing left there to save.

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We might not be on the same page or even the same side regarding this or that or what have you, but anything that dumps sand in the gears of the machine is of value to me even if I've not figure out how to use it yet.

I wouldn't say that I am any better, mind - just that I want society and Govt to leave folk who want no part of it alone, something which the meddling bastards are utterly incapable of doing by their very nature, and so, if it's them or me....

"We meddle - People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome."
-River Tam

-Frem


Yeah, basically my tack as well. I have a plan that I won't post here, to allow people to "Opt out." It doesn't involve a hole in the ground, and its main hazard at the moment is Obama's "you must buy health insurance for your children" which really mandates people back on the roles of the healthcare system or public assistance, which means constant govt. supervision of your life.

My education plan is my plan for kids to opt out. I see the society at large, the drug network, the MSM, the wage slave system, all as being part of the trap of society. If you are immersed in it, it's going to get you, and it's going to get your kids first. For this reason, I actually admire some of these hardcore christians, like the mennonites. They've opted out.

If you opt out, but your kids are still going to public school, and being bullied and peer pressured into intensely self destuctive behavior to escape from the pressure of the school, which is busy trying to indoctrinate them into the mindset of the slave state, then you're not really free. is all.

- Silly farmer

Attack of the Killer Tomatoes was actually a documentary about me.

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Monday, January 19, 2009 1:27 PM

FREMDFIRMA


How to not piss us off ?

First a few things cribbed from Shelby's list of "warning signs", which are a decent general guideline for parents - but we have a different standard and ROE, having a different interest.

- The facility requires that the parents and/or child sign a form releasing the program of liability in the event of injury to the child.

Debateable, as kids are kids and scratch-n-dent is always a possibility, but a red flag all the same.

- The child or parent or forbidden from discussing the daily happenings at the facility. Often this policy is called "confidentiality."

BIG red flag, barring discussion of specifics for privacy is one thing, but the general course of daily events should be as open to discussion.

- Phone calls between children and parents are monitored.

BLACK flag, and will result in an immediate recon sweep at the first opportunity, especially if the contents are recorded.
Yes, sometimes the parents are part of the problem, but that should be immediately evident in any treatment regimine worth a damn and thus there is no need for this unless due to incompetence or nefarious purpose.

- The program uses confrontational therapy.

Red flag, not only does it smack of incompetence, it tends to lead down the garden path to worse, as a general rule.

- Children are restrained or otherwise physically prevented from leaving the facility.

BLACK flag, and will result in recon sweep and minimal disruption designed to bring public attention, especially if the restraint/isolation is prolonged for no explicable theraputic reason.

- The staff includes former students/clients of the facility.

Red flag, but very mild, we were in fact proven wrong (I lost a bet with a couple dudes at BACA over it) about Cal Farley's Boys Ranch during the FLDS fiasco, but it is sometimes a precursor to cult like behavior and thus merits some attention to make sure.

- Staff members claim that self-injury or cutting/carving on ones body is normal behavior for a child in treatment.

BLACK flag, and will draw a recon sweep, especially if the child in question has no history of being a cutter.

- Parents are not allowed to remain with their child during the entire intake/entry process.

Red flag, but a small one, however if we find out that the parents were seperated for the express purpose of throwing the kid to the wolves for a prison yard style pecking order placement, expect trouble and lots of it, right quick like.

- The program inflicts physical punishments on children such as exercising for extended periods of time, bizarre cleaning rituals (ie scrubbing floors with a toothbrush) or food restrictions.

Red flag, but of itself not enough to draw the wrath upon them.

- The program uses humiliation to "break them down."

BLACK flag, resulting in immediate recon sweep with team on standby for followup action intended to draw immediate press involvement.

- The program forces children to remain in solitary confinement/isolation/time-out for an unspecified amount of time.

Red flag, but circumstantial, extended isolation without theraputic purpose or soley punitive in nature will draw the wrath however.

- Reading materials are prohibited or severely limited.

Red flag, small, usually due to budget constraints or plain stupidity, however if offers to rectify the lack are rejected, will draw attention.

- The facility does not have a clearly visible sign outside the building or descriptions of their location are vague.

Red flag, small, often due to incompetence or stupidity, but of itself not a great concern.

- Current clients/students participate in the intake/entry process.

Red flag, due to possible gangland style or prison pecking order entry hazing, which will draw our attention and ire quickly.

- Staff members offer to help parents obtain a court order forcing the child into, or keeping the child in, the facility.
(Subset A - Re: Rick Strawn/Teen Transport LLC)

BLACK flag, will draw recon sweep and followup team immediately.
Subset A - Any involvement of Strawn or TT will draw a full on strike and immediate harrassment/disruption combined with local independent press on site with followup team.

- Children are observed while bathing, dressing, or using the toilet on any level of the program.

BLACK flag, will draw recon sweep and theft of tapes or sabotage of video equipment.

- The facility does not allow children to follow their religion of choice.

BLACK flag, will draw recon sweep immediately.

- Staff members must "approve" family members, siblings, friends, or employment.

BLACK flag, will draw recon sweep immediately.

- Children escort/supervise other children.

Red flag, however some very useful therapies involve buddy or group dynamics and so passive observance will be done first.

- Children have to "earn" the "right" to speak during group/therapy sessions.
- Children on any level/phase are forbidden to speak to other children in the facility.

BLACK flag, any enforced silence will draw a recon sweep.


Overall, it's pretty simple, as long as it's voluntary and has even a debateable theraputic impact of positive nature - we're prettymuch hands off, but when you go trying to break them, hurt them, or anything that smacks of physical or psychological abuse, the next thing you know, it'll be like Jack Murphy clamped himself to your ass, cause *everything* will go wrong in the worst possible way at the worst possible time, and only when all hell has broken loose and you're powerless to put a lid on it will it become clear that it was deliberate and someone was actually behind it, if even then.

That went off without a hitch in the Costa Rica, just ask Narvin Lichfield about that one...
http://www.isaccorp.org/dundee/dundee-ranch.06.06.03.html
The CR officials finally just stormed in there and told his captives that their law did not allow forced incarceration of said type, and they could leave if they wished, which started a rush for the doors - a shouted command from Narvin set the staff in motion to stop them, and the officals body checked the staff, and all hell broke loose.

They let his ass off though, as the price for being rid of him and his facility, cause they SURE did not want it on their turf given the strange happenings it brought with it.

Anyhow, I'm all in favor of Opting Out - even if I disagree with folk I can respect their desire to be left the hell alone, and will often support it by finding useful equipment for them or doing repair work, provided they acknowledge that I don't believe what they do and have no interest in converting... most of em are pretty cool about it, although being considered the "left hand of god" by some FLDS folk still weirds me the hell out.

Related - Re: Rick Strawn.
The guys a freakin monster and a pervert, and we highly suspect he acted in improper fashion regarding Valerie Ann Heron, but being as after leaving his custody and getting a good hard look at the hellpit he left her in, she took a straight facefirst dive from the balcony into concrete, she's not around to give testimony anymore.
http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/July-August-2004/feature_labi_julau
g04.msp
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3527555530644740074
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Strawn

I hate the bastard, and the feeling is entirely mutual after I zapgunned one of his collegues in the restroom while they were drugging their "package" for the flight, and made off with said "package" to her grandmother, who then assumed full custody without a hitch or hint of behavioral 'problems' since - gee whiz, who'da thunk it was maybe the parents who were the goddamn problem, right ?

It was all I could do not to give the fucker a swirlie while I was at it, and I regret pulling her off before she could get more than a single kick in while he was down, but we were pressed for time and I sure hell didn't wanna have to explain THAT situation to the airport security guys.

The law tends to be pretty grey regarding this kinda thing once they're out of parental custody, and it's gonna be your ass in court if you get caught so most folk don't dare - but we can and have done intercepts or taken kids from the transporter goons when other family members have engaged us to do so, and from the facilities themselves, but that's usually not very confrontational, we show up, display the paperwork, and they bitch a fit, call their lawyer, and generally march the kid out to us in an hour or so.

The transporters on the other hand operate in a very grey legal area, and if engaged sans witnesses, will make an *issue* of it - the simplest counter to that is simply to sneak up while they're surrounded by witnesses and lock hands with the kid and start screaming that they're a kidnapper, the kid will play along 99% of the time and start screaming their head off too - but in the case in question it was time critical and a bumrush was required to get in and out before whatever drugs he used took effect.

Bastard should be glad that happened where it did, cause in a more secluded area with time to indulge that urge, he'd not have left under his own power.

That's another reason I fill more of a leadership role, too - these days there's no call for roughing someone up and it's in fact counterproductive to what we're trying to accomplish, but in a face to face confrontation with these creeps, any excuse to unleash violence will spark a genuinely sadistic beatdown, grinning like Lucy the whole time.

Ergo, better that someone ELSE go and handle any of the facework, cause the project is far too important to let my own personal flaws screw it the hell up.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Monday, January 19, 2009 2:00 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Actually, most of my grade education came from books, and I was usually well ahead of the curriculum at any time - eventually that came down to a big blowup during so-called "History" class regarding the existence and beliefs of the Anti-Federalists, given that our curriculum espoused the Federalist Papers as mere explaination to us peons of what our betters were doing, and glossed completely over even the existance of the Anti-Federalists, much less their arguments.

As for the social environment, I despised it, the ONLY other place on earth you'll find that social dynamic is the penal system, right down to the administration keeping various cliques at each others throats to maintain the status quo.

Whatever it is that makes a person like other people, want to be around them, need their approval, I was either born without it, never developed it, or simply burned it out in my dislike and distrust of the people I was forced to associate with on a daily basis, all of whom despised me (and not all without cause since I was an arrogant little prick) and would regularly try to rough me up till it became clear that short of beating me fully unconscious, which would take a while and leave more than one of em on the floor with me, it was literally impossible to stop me from pounding YOU senseless once you'd struck that first blow - I might be pathetically puny, but most bullies have never felt real pain in their lives, and when it starts to get past mere black eyes and bloody noses, lose their stomach for the fight pretty quick, obviously.

This did not endear me to the other outcasts, since one I got left alone they got the idea that they were then taking my share of the abuse too and avoided me like the plague - so for the next eight years or so I was left so completely alone that my world was almost devoid of human contact given my home situation.

While I do have empathy for other people on an intellectual level, it's NOT instinctive and I've very little ability to bond in that fashion, at least with humans - I do get on better with animals, at a level that creepifies some folk, but humans I can do without, for the most part.

Ergo, I rather intensely hated public school, and they damn well knew it - the only thing keeping me there was both the law, and the need for that stupid bit of paper to secure work enough to put food on the table which didn't involve crime.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Monday, January 19, 2009 2:51 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Two additional background articles which are worth a read relating to this.

The Trouble with Troubled Teen Programs
http://www.reason.com/news/show/117088.html

Tough Love and Free Speech
http://www.reason.com/news/show/122156.html

Scheff is a genuine wackjob, btw - I am picky about who I'll work with, even at arms length, and as far as active cooperation goes, the only folk who get that are Jordan Riak and Shelby Earnshaw.
(if you ain't been sued or shot at, you ain't done enough damage!)

-F

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Monday, January 19, 2009 3:02 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Just a quick post.

As I said before, what we tell ourselves about ourselves is vital but almost completely unexamined either individually or on a societal level.

I just read a short summary of a study where people had trivial but fictitious events subtly implanted in their memories - they were told that when they were children they had gotten terribly sick on a particular food. When their food preferences were checked they had a greater than normal aversion to that food at the time they were told that story, as well as three months later when they were retested.

SignyM posted about children following a bogus set of instructions even after the mechanisms of the plastic box were exposed, whereas chimps ditched the bogus actions and only did what worked.

Our words that we tell ourselves are important.


***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Monday, January 19, 2009 3:17 PM

DREAMTROVE


Thanks for the list

These are just some things that I picked out that would flag every university or hospital in America.
If there's a more specific definition, clarification would be handy.

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- The facility requires that the parents and/or child sign a form releasing the program of liability in the event of injury to the child.

I think this one might be a legal necessity
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- The staff includes former students/clients of the facility.

Also potentially a sign of a good program, you just boasted your own program contained workers who were kids that you had freed. If you view yourself as a rehabilitation program that rehabs from rehabs, then every one you rescue is a client of yours. Those clients, many you said, have become workers. Just pointing out that you just redflagged yourself :) is all
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- Current clients/students participate in the intake/entry process.

This is another that I need clarification on. I think every school or program that actually doesn't suck is full of people who are there because someone else said "I tried this and it was great." Maybe even your program. Firefly fans exist because of this phenomenon. So, if there's something more specific that you meant...
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- The facility does not allow children to follow their religion of choice.

Sorry, this seems extreme. If your school is called St. Mary's catholic academy, then I suspect it's going to select religiously.

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- Staff members must "approve" family members, siblings, friends, or employment.

employment? who is employed? the kids? this seems illogical. What would be the circumstances.

Other than that, most of this is pretty straightforward, obvious abuse, but thanks a lot for the list.

Couple comments: What kind of moron chooses Costa Rica as his getaway country? I mean, Costa Rica is probably the only first world country in latin america outside of mexico. I mean, all other issues aside, that's just idiocy. That's like sneaking off to canada to avoid prosecution :)

Sorry, I just had to chuckle at that.

The other is that separating kids from the influences of the network, and MSM, general contamination of the NWO programming that makes the unithought bots we run into is just, imho, part of a good educational program. That's going to involve some restriction (no tv) but you'll never have complete restriction, no internet.

Also, I was assuming that membership was always voluntary outside of the nuthouse, like I was in, but for rehab or education, I guess color me naive again.

As for FLDS, I think they're weird, no intention of joining, but I'd defend their right to have their own society. They're an old established faith of the kind this nation was set up to support, and watching the Feds treat a population of 50,000 as if they're automatically a criminal element just turns my stomach, esp. after what happened at Waco.

Every society, imho, and every nation, should have one rule, and this would solve most of the world's problems: Freedom to leave. This would put an end to all objective abuse. The idea of abuse is sometimes subjective, like when we look, from a western standpoint, at women in the Islamic world. Islamic women otoh, see it differently. If all the doors were open, probably every woman and girl would leave saudi arabia. But I don't see a lot fleeing Iran, or palestine, any more than any male palestinian is fleeing palestine. Someone, okay, I know who, but I don't want the interjected response, posted something about polygamy case in germany allowing muslim men multiple wives. It was one case, a displaced Iraqi family, that fled to Germany, and the German govt. told the second wife she had to divorce her husband. She brought the suit against the govt. of Germany, and she won. But it was a singular exception. You see how things can get twisted out of shape from a foreign perspective, and filter.

Freedom to leave. All societies, institutions, and nations. Even prisons, if to leave was to go to some penal colony labor camp. I don't believe in prisons, I don't think they help, but if you have a dangerous serial killer and no cure, and you didn't kill him.

Btw, that was a very disturbing film in its way. I loved it though. As I said, really, all parisols and sakura. If you've ever been to Japan.

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Monday, January 19, 2009 3:30 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Well, as I stated, some of that can go either way, and even drawing a recon doesn't mean they'd face the wrath, just that we see enough to want to make sure there's nothing untowards going on.

Mostly the red flags are stuff that'll make us go "hmmm" and pay a little more attention, black flags are stuff that needs some on-site lookover.

The religion aspect is worth an on-site look, given that I was once forced to go to a Catholic School against my wishes and I am most certainly NOT Catholic - having a religion you despise rammed down your throat by force and threat doesn't exactly predispose one to liking it so much, and doing so to the unwilling is something we'll take rather seriously.

And yes, Narvin's an idiot, his brother Robert got all the brains, but that just makes Narvin the weakest link and thus easier to screw with.

And yes, freedom to leave is the most important part.

-F

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Monday, January 19, 2009 4:09 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:
so-called "History" class regarding the existence and beliefs of the Anti-Federalists


Education is a sham, it's programming, hence the need for an alternative.
Interesting side note. The Anti-Federalists were originally the Confederates. The name took on such a positive connotation, that the opposition which had been called something else, renamed itself "Federalists" and then launched a negative campaign to rename the Confederates, the "Anti-Federalists," banking on human response to negativity, which worked. This history was not lost of the southern secessionists, who had as one of their items to re-establish a loose alliance of limited govt. according to the articles of confederacy, 1781, the precursor to the constitution, 1789, but you know that already. Of course, they also had other issues, not just slavery, but war with mexico, with which I would take issue. Still, it's an interesting what could have been.

The Federalists were manipulative bastards much like the neocons of today, and they desperately fought to strike the Bill of Rights from the constitution.

Quote:
As for the social environment, I despised it, the ONLY other place on earth you'll find that social dynamic is the penal system, right down to the administration keeping various cliques at each others throats to maintain the status quo.


I love this conspiracy theory. You're probably right: public school probably subversively promotes clique wars among the students, it's just like our govt. It makes perfect sense. Its the perfect form of control, to prevent the inmates, err. students, from revolting against the establishment. If the geeks are at war with the jocks, then they're not combining forces against the administration, which is what is really making them unhappy. My dark side is wondering how I can exploit this to undermine the system ;)

Quote:
Whatever it is that makes a person like other people, want to be around them, need their approval, I was either born without it, never developed it, or simply burned it out


It's a skill set. There are characteristics that make you predisposed to generate reactions from people, but that's somewhat immutable. Aside from advanced chemistry. Mostly, it's learned. This is something I had trouble with, having no education. I think that I evolved into an extemely gregarious person, and have no trouble making friends, etc. My problem is currently motivating people. I'm working on communication theory for that reason and others. I was always the big kid, I didn't have to worry about that, but then I wasn't in school.

Quote:

This did not endear me to the other outcasts, since one I got left alone they got the idea that they were then taking my share of the abuse too and avoided me like the plague - so for the next eight years or so I was left so completely alone that my world was almost devoid of human contact given my home situation.


Well, that's an experience I don't regret missing. I have no idea what it would have been like. I had some bullies that tried to put me down, but I was very athletic, and that would have been bound to put me in the prep set.

Quote:

While I do have empathy for other people on an intellectual level, it's NOT instinctive and I've very little ability to bond in that fashion, at least with humans - I do get on better with animals, at a level that creepifies some folk, but humans I can do without, for the most part.


I'm similarly distant. I think that I get along very well, and don't get attached easily, personal history reasons.

Quote:

Ergo, I rather intensely hated public school, and they damn well knew it - the only thing keeping me there was both the law, and the need for that stupid bit of paper to secure work enough to put food on the table which didn't involve crime.


So you have no problem with my taking a bite out of it as an instution. My probablem with it is that it seems to create this mindlessness, I don't find in people who weren't in it, and didn't find in 5th grade, not so much anyway. But as I said, the fear of learning, the social bullying, and the total distraction, distructive clique forces, and authority, etc. It's appalling from an outside perspective. I look at the public school and I see the USSR, only if possible, more incompetent. Kids are pitted against other kids to see which one is superior, and thus adequate to be permitted to engage in an activity, rather than allowing free will. I could rant for a long time, and I didn't even endure it. Feel free to rant in response. Insider rant is probably more interesting:)

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Monday, January 19, 2009 4:14 PM

DREAMTROVE


I've already been shot at. I'll take a look at the sites "tough love" is a james dobson concept, i know it *shudder*.

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