REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Spank kids, go to jail as a TERRORIST

POSTED BY: PIRATENEWS
UPDATED: Thursday, January 22, 2009 12:39
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1980
PAGE 1 of 1

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 9:45 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!




UNDER U.S.A.P.A.T.R.I.O.T. ACT HER CHILDREN ARE NOW BEING STOLEN BECAUSE SHE SPANKED THEM ON A PLANE!!!

"Freeman" faces up to 21 years in prison and fines up to $350,000 if convicted. She was not allowed a lawyer for 3 months while in federal jail, than was coerced to plead guilty without trial, and MAY be sentenced to four to 10 months of home detention at her sentencing hearing Jan. 18. JUDGES NEVER HAVE TO OBEY ANY PLEA AGREEMENT SIGNED BY PROSECUTORS AND DEFENDANTS...

Her "Public defender" lawyer is employed by the govt to LOSE as condition of employment.

This "Most Wanted Terrorist Mommy" even got her own webpage at US Dept of "Justice":
www.usdoj.gov/usao/co/press_releases/archive/2007/July07/7_25_07.html

Affidavit of Complaint is NOT signed by an eyewitness to the alleged crime, with perjury by FBI agent (dropping tomato juice is not "assault"):
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/unruly-freeman-091220
07.pdf



Quote:

In-flight confrontations can lead to charges defined as terrorism

LA Times
January 20, 2009

Tamera Jo Freeman lost custody of her children after an incident on a Frontier Airlines flight. "A woman spanking her child is not as great a threat to aviation as members of Al Qaeda with box cutters," says one expert.

At least 200 passengers have been convicted of felonies under the Patriot Act, often for behavior involving raised voices and profanity. Some experts say airlines are misusing the law.

Reporting from Los Angeles and Oklahoma City -- Tamera Jo Freeman was on a Frontier Airlines flight to Denver in 2007 when her two children began to quarrel over the window shade and then spilled a Bloody Mary into her lap.

She spanked each of them on the thigh with three swats. It was a small incident, but one that in the heightened anxiety after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks would eventually have enormous ramifications for Freeman and her children.

A flight attendant confronted Freeman, who responded by hurling a few profanities and throwing what remained of a can of tomato juice on the floor.

The incident aboard the Frontier flight ultimately led to Freeman's arrest and conviction for a federal felony defined as an act of terrorism under the Patriot Act, the controversial federal law enacted after the 2001 attacks in New York and Washington.

"I had no idea I was breaking the law," said Freeman, 40, who spent three months in jail before pleading guilty.

Freeman is one of at least 200 people on flights who have been convicted under the amended law. In most of the cases, there was no evidence that the passengers had attempted to hijack the airplane or physically attack any of the flight crew. Many have simply involved raised voices, foul language and drunken behavior.

But at least one passenger, John Carlson, a defense attorney who was seated near Freeman, said there was no threat. "There was a nasty, loud exchange," Carlson said. Then Freeman "capitulated and offered no resistance. My sympathy shifted to her."

After three months in jail, Freeman agreed to plead guilty in exchange for being released on probation. A court-appointed attorney told her that a plea deal would be the fastest way to see her children, who had been taken back to Hawaii and put into foster care.

Her probation required her to stay in Oklahoma City, where she grew up, and prohibited her from flying. Meanwhile, legal proceedings in Hawaii have begun to allow the children's foster parents to adopt them.

Freeman has been denied permission to attend custody hearings in Maui over the last six months, court records show.

"I have cried. I have cried for my children every day," Freeman said. "I feel the system is failing me."

www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-airline-felonies20-2009j
an20,0,5468299.story


Never mind that 9/11 was an inside job by psycho Big Brother, as confessed in Pentagon's Operation Northwoods. That's why I always carry multiple copies of Northwoods when I fly airlines. It's probably a good idea for driving a car too, just in case its needed in court.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1
www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf

Dictator Bush did not "allow" Congress to read the U.S.A.P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act before signing it.
www.dailymotion.com/video/x1zf9q_lou-dobbs-congress-doesnt-read-bill_n
ews


Quote:

"The term `domestic terrorism' means activities that involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State."
—Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001 - U.S.A.P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act, 18 US Code 2331
http://infowars.com/print_patriotact2_analysis.htm

"My message to America this morning, then, is this: If YOU fit this definition of a 'terrorist', fear the United States, for YOU WILL lose your liberty! We have engaged in a deliberate campaign of arrest and detention of law breakers."
—John Ashcroft, US attorney general, Senate Committee on the Judiciary, December 6, 2001

"After my car broke down on the Interstate highway in Nashville, Tennessee, Metro police towed and impounded my car and issued me a parking citation for 'violating the Homeland Security Act'."
—Disgruntled Driver, WLAC.com 1510AM, Legally Speaking talk radio show, May 8, 2004

"SUMMARY: Creates crime of terrorism. Punishes by life imprisonment.
SECTION 1.
(1) A person commits the crime of terrorism if the person knowingly plans, participates in or carries out any act that is intended, by at least one of its participants, to disrupt:
(a) The free and orderly assembly of the inhabitants of the State of Oregon;
(b) Commerce or the transportation systems of the State of Oregon; or
(c) The educational or governmental institutions of the State of Oregon or its inhabitants.
(2) A person commits the crime of terrorism if the person conspires to do any of the activities described in subsection (1) of this section.
(4) (a) A person convicted of terrorism shall be punished by imprisonment for life. (b) When a person is convicted of terrorism under this section, the court shall order that the person be confined for a minimum of 25 years without possibility of parole, release to post-prison supervision, release on work release or any form of temporary leave or employment at a forest or work camp."
SECTION 3.
Section 19, chapter 666, Oregon Laws 2001, as amended by section 5, chapter 696, Oregon Laws 2001, is amended to read:
The crimes to which section 1 (11)(b), chapter 666, Oregon Laws 2001, applies are:
(1) Bribe giving
(7) Official misconduct in the first degree
(16) Possession of materials depicting sexually explicit conduct
(17) Theft
(24) Unauthorized use of a vehicle
(26) Laundering a monetary instrument
(27) Engaging in a financial transaction in property derived from unlawful activity
(28) Burglary
(31) Unlawful entry into a motor vehicle
(34) Computer crime
(39) Unlawful recording of a live performance
(40) Unlawful labeling of a videotape recording
(50) Fraudulently obtaining a signature
(51) Fraudulent use of a credit card
(52) Negotiating a bad check
(55) Falsifying business records
(56) Sports bribery
(59) Issuing a false financial statement
(69) Unlawful possession of a firearm
(80) Improperly transferring a handgun
(89) Prostitution
(93) Unlawful gambling
(99) Cheating
(103) Animal abuse
(105) Animal neglect
(110) Unauthorized use of a livestock animal
(117) Unlawful delivery of an imitation controlled substance
(123) Misuse of an identification card
(129) Criminal driving while suspended or revoked
(130) Driving while under the influence of intoxicants
(132) Terrorism, as defined in section 1 of this 2003 Act
—72nd OREGON LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY--2003 Regular Session, Senate Bill 742, amendment to Chapter 666, Oregon Laws 2001, Rense.com, "Oregon Bill Gives Protestors LIFE In Prison In Forest Work Camp - Reclassifies ALL Crimes as 'Terrorism'"
www.leg.state.or.us/03reg/measures/sb0700.dir/sb0742.intro.html
www.rense.com/general36/pce.htm

"Government control of Communications and Transportation."
-Communist Manifesto, 6th Plank, written by Karl Marx in London, England, United Kingdon of the British Empire
www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Manifesto-Planks.html

"What we need is more Red terror! More and more and more!"
-Jewish Communist dictator Vladimir Lenin

"You will be happy to learn that the former head of the KGB (the secret police of the former Soviet Union), General Yevgeni Primakov, has been hired as a consultant by the US Department of Homeland Security."
-Al Martin, AlMartinRaw.com, Behind the Scenes in the Beltway, "Get Ready for the USSA (The United Soviet States of America)," March 17, 2003
www.impeach-bush-now.org/Articles/Americans/USSA.htm


Govt has gone insane, and the Demorat and Republicon parties are criminal organizations, a terminal cancer feeding on the sheeple. USA DOA RIP.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 10:00 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by piratenews:
A flight attendant confronted Freeman, who responded by hurling a few profanities and throwing what remained of a can of tomato juice on the floor.

"I had no idea I was breaking the law," said Freeman, 40, who spent three months in jail before pleading guilty.


I note for the record that she broke the law not by spanking her children. She broke it by causing a disturbance, then refusing to stop when asked by a person with legal authority, and then again by throwing the juice.

I note she'd been drinking.

On the ground in Ohio this would have amounted to Disorderly Conduct, not the MM variety, but rather a Misdemeanor of the Fourth Degree punishable by up to 30 days in jail and $250 fine. "I had no idea I was breaking the law," is absurd, such behaivor is illegal at any altitude.

I agree that such behaivor on an airplane is even more serious. There must be strict compliance with the requests of the crew members of the airplane. Three months seems excessive, but not unreasonable since she showed little or no remorse.

In light of recent events in which a highly trained flight crew saved every life on the airliner that crashed in the Hudson River...perhaps more consideration of their duties is in order. They are trained professionals who should not have to deal with intoxicated persons engaging in disruptive behaivor.

I note this conduct would have been a great distraction for a group of terrorist to have used to surprise the crew and gain control of the aircraft.

H

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:12 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


This woman stressed out while traveling with her kids. It happens.

Kids spilling a drink is not a crime for parents.

If airlines don't want "intoxicated" passengers, they shouldn't profit from selling them alcohol on airliners. Waitresses who serve alcohol MUST be prepared to tolerate buzzed behavior from their customers.

She was never proven to be "intoxicated". "Intoxicated" is defined by cops and courts as "one sip of alcohol in 24 hours".

Quote:

"Strictly speaking, a driver can register a BAC of 0.00% and still be convicted of a DUI. The level of BAC does not clear a driver when it is below the 'presumed level of intoxication.'"
—Tennessee Driver Handbook and Driver License Study Guide



Pilots who drink COFFEE in AIRPORTS are now sentenced to 5 years in prison for "intoxication".
www.piratenews.org/drunkairlinepilots.html

Profanities are ALWAYS allowed to be hurled at anyone, including cops, according to that pesky 1st Amendment to US Constitution and US Supreme Court.
www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/19954996.MAN.pdf
www.jonathanturley.org/2009/01/04/the-right-to-be-profane-south-dakota
-supreme-court-upholds-right-to-swear-at-police
/
www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=16529

But it's probably not a good idea to call a judge a Nazi pig, since "contempt of court" is a life sentence on death row.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/floridastatecases/3_2003/sc02-1527
.pdf


Bogus laws are are null and void, such as U.S.A.P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Acts that define all normal behavior as "crime".

Quote:

"A law repugnant to the constitution is void, and that courts, as well as other departments, are bound by that instrument."
-Chief Justice John Marshall, U.S. Supreme Court, Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. (1 Cranch) 137 (1803)



Denial of legal representation IS a crime punishable by incarceration and civil compensation.

What this sheep was guilty of is being ignorant of her Constitutional rights and Criminal Procedure, then not being able to afford a REAL lawyer. That crime is punishable by death.

All airlines and flight crew are guilty of aiding and abetting the 9/11 terrorist massacres by the Bush White House, Israeli Mossad, Canadian NorthCom and British MI6, when they accepted billion$ in bribes to STFU. This crime was punished by loss of over 100,000 jobs and bankruptcy.

As for "highly skilled airline crews", the best pilot on planet Earth was praised as a hero for gliding an Airbus for 30 minutes over the ocean at night, blinded without electricity, then landed on an island without falling off a cliff. Then he was blamed for the computer malfunction and Communist Chinese engine defect, and reported as being a convicted drug felon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Transat_Flight_236

Give the pilots guns, and let waitresses leave the passengers alone. Let family visit departure lounges without strip searches. Teach every human being on Earth that THE US GOVT HIJACKS US AIRLINERS BY REMOTE CONTROL in Operation Northwoods.

The fed prosecutor trying to jail me for 6 months with $5,000 fine, for the crime of driving safely at 45 mph, got fired or quit during my trial and appeal. I suspect he realized what a farce his job was.

The real criminals are required to be worshipped as gods, even while they overthrow USA. If a prosecutor, cop, judge or politician actully does the right thing, they get fired, or worse.



"Laws are like spider webs - small bugs get captured and the big bugs fly right through."
-Honore de Balzac (paraphrase)

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:15 PM

FREMDFIRMA


All else is just people being people - but once you've thrown a solid object at another person, sorry, that's a fight, and a fight YOU just started.

As for your thread title, well...

You shouldn't hit people, and kids are people.
http://www.vachss.com/guest_dispatches/alice_miller3.html
http://thesacredmoment.blogspot.com/2004/07/from-mild-smacking-to-outr
ight-sadism.html


That's not to say I'd take issue with something like grabbing a child who's about to cross the street unsafely or smacking a hand that's reaching toward a hot burner or other harmful object...

But I can and will call out even a total stranger who commits an act of abuse in front of me - one lady in a grocery store was raising her hand to deliver a second slap to the face of a crying child who'd she just struck, cause the child had the nerve to cry about being stuck in the face by his mother ??

So, I grabbed her wrist from behind her and whispered in her ear that if that blow landed, she would hit the floor a second later, and maybe she better leave, right now.

She turned, looked at me, then took the kid by the hand and left, immediately - won't solve a damn thing and I know it, but it's not in me to stand aside and let shit like that happen right in front of me.

On the other hand, yanno - when someone's having a problem like that, I know folks "don't want to get involved" sure, but what does it really cost you to lean over and offer a hand to a parent who is fast losing control ?

I mean, especially with little kids, simply having a diversion can often head off a tantrum by breaking their concentration due to their shorter attention span and limited focus.

One unexpected benefit of a limited human bonding capacity is that crying, howling shrieking (happily or otherwise) babies and children do not bother me the way they do other folk - I traded seats on a flight once to sit near a mommy who's baby was howling cause the pressure change was making it's ears hurt, and the guy next to her was getting pretty snippy about it.

Well, fine, I didn't need a window seat anyways, and found his bitchin to be worse than the wailing to be honest, and it did shut him and a few others up about it - babies cry, it happens, adding adult pissing and moaning about it voluntarily just makes it worse.

We really need to start lookin at children like people instead of subhuman things one step below housepets if we ever wanna get our shit together as a species, and not hittin em would go pretty far in that direction.

Look what it did for women, neh ?

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:38 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


You must spank bratty kids to save them from killing themselves, lest they grow up to be thieving Congressmen partaking in $10-trillion bank robberies.

The test is calmly not freaking out or causing physical injury.

I remember growing up with my mom chasing us kids around the house with a flyswatter. It was fun for us, but she was totally wigged out.

Apparently its stressful being a parent in charge of keeping kids from killing themselves. Sleep deprivation alone can cause brain damage.

In this case, "foster parents" are paid huge amounts of taxdollars to kidnap kids for profit. Often they keep 10 kids in 1 house, run like a slave camp, complete with cages, dog collars and leashes.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:34 PM

DREAMTROVE


Ohh. I'm getting popcorn for this one

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:58 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Quote:

her two children began to quarrel over the window shade and then spilled a Bloody Mary into her lap.

She spanked each of them on the thigh with three swats ...

A flight attendant confronted Freeman, who responded by hurling a few profanities and throwing what remained of a can of tomato juice on the floor.

Frontier Airlines flight to Denver in 2007 ... A court-appointed attorney told her that a plea deal would be the fastest way to see her children, who had been taken back to Hawaii and put into foster care.

Nope --- nothing there that warrants an arrest or conviction, let alone losing your children.

Hero wants to excuse the conviction by claiming she had 'been drinking'. She had a bloody Mary in a glass, it may have been her first drink and she may not even had time to drink it. But, by using pejorative language and helping you make assumptions, Hero would like you to believe the woman was drunk, loud and unruly. Rather than perhaps stressed by a long flight (it looks like Hawaii to Denver) with two young children who were being fractious.

What a joke of 'law enforcement'. With Hero cheerleading it on.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 3:11 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

A court-appointed attorney told her that a plea deal would be the fastest way to see her children

That ain't justice, that's extortion.

Where I stand on it - throwing a solid object at another person is indeed cause for arrest, but the problem with that is our trial system is such a goddamn mockery that it can't do it's job because it's so focused on obtaining convictions that it doesn't have the sense to make a decision based on whether the object in question was a wad of paper or a brick...

Me, I'd have gone with a small fine and some parental support classes as a condition of Probation Before Judgement (ah good ole PBJ) given how the overall situation developed.

Hitting a child is a lousy way to teach them anything but disrespect for you and others, but most of that doesn't come from maliciousness so much as not knowing any better, or not knowing any other way that actually works.

How they went about this, it doesn't FIX THE PROBLEM, all it does is wreck things worse.

The root problem is an overwhelmed parent who's not coping very well and could use some help - stomping on her for that is as boneheaded as smacking a kid for behaving like a kid, innit ?

The lady needs parental support classes, not a damn prison sentence.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 3:33 PM

DREAMTROVE


I knew a woman whose job it was to take kids away from homes. Most of the stuff was ridiculous. This mother had gone on a date, and had a drink, and there was no abuse to the children, who were like 9 and 11, they were just left home. Then she came back and she pried the kids from this woman's arms, everyone screaming the whole time. And she did a lot of these. Generally, the parent's sin was being poor. They were poor, on public assistance, and so on a tremendous amount of surveillance. Meanwhile, I've known other families, like a couple of friends I had growing up who were routinely tortured, and kept as slaves. They were adopted, and their adoptive parents were "good upstanding members of the community." No one did a damn thing. The kids fled at 18 with their broken bones and never went home, never phoned home, don't care whether their adoptive parents are alive or dead. I saw the girl a couple years back, and someone mentioned something about what her parents were up to, and she said, "I don't want to hear about it, I'm not interested."

So, it's a very unbalanced mockery. If you're in a trailer, and leave the kids unattended (at least in NY) that's neglect, you're done for. You're poor, and there's not "an adequate amount of healthy food" in the house, bang, your kids are now wards of the state. If you're upper class and maintain a small dungeon of 7 foster children (another local family) as your personal slaves, and you have some decent job or position, it's "Oh, anything we can do for you Mr. X?"

It's just wrong. To not become instutional subjects or put into fostercare, which from what we had seen locally was slavery, we had to keep a low profile, that meant never seeking public assistance, etc. It also meant we couldn't really challenge the school for kicking us out, that would draw attention to us.

The system's just completely f^&ked up.

I go with simple rules. Just kids are people. It's not okay to do violence unto anyone else.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 4:07 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"throwing a solid object at another person is indeed cause for arrest"

But --- she threw it to the floor, not --AT-- anyone. That's one thing that caught my eye.

As for the 'swats' she gave her kids --- it's a matter of judgement whether they warranted anything other than some time to decompress, or maybe a fine and a class.

I have never hit a kid in anger, and rarely done the hand-spank, but kids can really, really push your buttons. Look at it this way - it's how they survive from infancy on to the point of doing for themselves. They are tuned to make YOU behave in a certain way. (Which is the reason, btw, when kids are in the hands of monsters, they always think it's their fault. They're just looking for a reason and what they did wrong to make you do that to them. It's how their brains work.)

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 5:11 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Ah, see - that's where accounts did vary, but hell if she pitched at the floor...

At MOST a small fine for disorderly conduct, waived if she agrees to some kind of parental training/supprt - which come to think of it, we damn well oughta offer on a larger scale at cut rates or even free of charge instead of paying through the nose at the other end when the kids wind up in the juvie, then penal, systems.

That bein my two cents on it.

-F

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 9:36 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Quote:

A court-appointed attorney told her that a plea deal would be the fastest way to see her children

That ain't justice, that's extortion.



SO SHE LOST HER CHILDREN by signing the plea of guilty to "dropping a can of juice on the floor"...

This apparently is a very common tactic for "public defenders" with clients who cannot afford bail (and too stupid to know they don't need a lawyer to ask the arraignment judge for FREE release "on their own recognizance bond"). Let the suckers rot in jail for 10 days, then meet them for the first time at the probable-cause hearing, and twist their arm until they sign a plea of guilty. No trial to waste the lawyers' time = more profit per overbilled hour.

This is exactly like gitmo, torture in jail to extort false confessions. Defendants sign the plea contract as a substitute for bail.

PDs are not govt employees, since they get huge govt contracts, like Haliburton.

Our PD Inc office in Knoxville TN has been refusing ALL misdemeanor clients for 1 year, "due to lack of funds". Yet they had enough money to build a brand new GIGANTIC PD HQ, far far away from their clients in the jailhouse, which is also a gigantic palace of "justice" and corruption on primo riverfront real estate. Several court-appointed lawyers in Knoxville TN got paid over $1-million per client (who never got out of jail).
www.pdknox.org/800main.htm

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 22, 2009 6:18 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Hero wants to excuse the conviction by claiming she had 'been drinking'.


Actually Disorderly Conduct, which is the crime she would have been charged with in most other settings, does not require an alcohol element. DOC Intox does, but plan DOC (even the M-4 variety), which is what she'd have been charged with, does not.

What is Disorderly Conduct on the ground is a whole different crime on a plane, but the crime she committed exists regardless of the context.

H

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 22, 2009 6:26 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
But --- she threw it to the floor, not --AT-- anyone. That's one thing that caught my eye.


Fair enough...its still Disorderly Conduct...but lets say there's tomato juice and it stains the rug...that means we just add Criminal Damaging here in Ohio. Good job, you just got her a second criminal conviction and are working your way up the Misdemeanor ladder.

I suspect Criminal Damaging of an airplane in flight is something to take seriously...

Might want to leave the lawyering to somebody else, what sounds perfectly reasonable to you will scare a jury to death. I'd close with that line I used earlier about how this is just the sort of distraction a group of terrorist would love to have so that they could take control of the airplane.

H



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 22, 2009 11:17 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Creepy bastard, isn't he ?

I'd pull it for PBJ and a fine, and damn well get it too, cause yer not as good as you think you are.

-F

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 22, 2009 11:38 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
cause yer not as good as you think you are.


Thats true. I mean my record isn't perfect. Its next to perfect what with that one loss a about a year back...but its not perfect.

Juries love me...its my Cleveland Browns tie and sunny disposition.

H


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 22, 2009 11:38 AM

CAMPHILLPAWHEDONITE1956


what a waste of our justice system. nobody should have had to go throu what she had. this is partly whats wrong with our society where you cant disciplin your kids without somebody poking thier nose in your business. she should have not been sent to jail for such a minor offence as tossing a drink on the floor or swering at the attendent, nobody got hurt, thats what is importent.

stay shiney pa browncoats rule.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 22, 2009 11:39 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"Actually Disorderly Conduct, which is the crime she would have been charged with in most other settings, does not require an alcohol element."

But YOU specifically mentioned it to make her look bad and to sway any sympathy there might be away from her. Did you not try to induced bias ? Otherwise why mention it ? As in: "I note she'd been drinking."



"but lets say there's tomato juice and it stains the rug...that means we just add Criminal Damaging here in Ohio. Good job, you just got her a second criminal conviction and are working your way up the Misdemeanor ladder."

Oh, here's the gist of Ohio law: "Criminal damage occurs when you create a substantial risk of harm to any property without the owner’s consent. Criminal damage is a 2nd degree misdemeanor punishable by up to 90 days in jail and $750 in fines."

A HYPOTHETICAL stain on a small area of carpet that could easily be removed by spot treatment is 'criminal damage' ? Only in your deluded mind.



"I suspect Criminal Damaging of an airplane in flight is something to take seriously..."

Except, of course if there's no criminal damage.


***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 22, 2009 11:50 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Course he did, that's his JOB.

Oh and that whole " this is partly whats wrong with our society where you cant disciplin your kids without somebody poking thier nose in your business."

Ok, when your hateful little brats who've learned contempt and how to treat other people from the back of your hand try grow up and try treating ME in the fashion you taught em - you mind if I thrash YOU when I get done with them, then ?

Lemme put it in a different context, screwhead.
"this is partly whats wrong with our society where you cant disciplin your wife without somebody poking thier nose in your business."

It's the SAME FUCKING DIFFERENCE, only we finally pulled our heads far enough out of our asses to realize, hey, women are people, maybe we should treat them like it - and it's done wonders for our humanity and society... and yet somehow the connection doesn't get made that HELLLOoooo...

Kids are people as well ?

Beating your kids is no different, and not one single solitary ounce less barbaric, stupid, and counterproductive as beating your wife - because the same lame bullshit justifications that ultimately fail when applied to beating your wife, are no more valid when applied to beating your kids.

Oh and for the record, most abuse of children doesn't come from maliciousness, it comes from incompetence, inexperience, and ignorance.

Those CAN be fixed, but only if a person is willing - ignorance is curable, but stupid is forever.

-Frem
PS. - Fair Warning: leave it be, I won't be nice, so if you wanna agree to disagree we can leave it here...

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 22, 2009 11:57 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Affidavit of Complaint is NOT signed by an eyewitness to the alleged crime, with perjury by FBI agent (setting a tomato juice on the floor without spilling it is not "assault"):
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/unruly-freeman-091220
07.pdf


This FBI affidavit did not include any transcripts of the defendant's alleged statements, probably because no recording was made. The waitresses did not admit to selling alcohol to the defendant.

This is why no sane person volunteers to speak to police, unless, perhaps, they are accusing REAL criminals of perping crimes. And always carry a small audio recorder, to catch cops testilyin.
www.karemar.com/blog/top-ten-10-things-not-do-if-you-are-arrested


www.lawcollective.org/article.php?id=121

Note that the FBI confessed in court on 100 hours of audiotape to hiring the bombers of the World Trade Center in 1993, providing them the explosives, paying them $1.5-million, and granting them immunity from prosecution.
www.liveleak.com/view?i=e88_1192741655
www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/wtcbomb.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emad_Salem

This is the same FBI that denied the existance of the Italian Mafia for 50 years, while homosexual transvestite FBI director J Edgar Hoover raped little boys and sucked Clyde Tolson's orifices.



This same FBI assassinated Dr Martin Luther King, according to the House Select committee on Assassinations in 1978.
http://piratenews-tv.blogspot.com/2009/01/happy-fbi-assassinated-mlk-d
ay.html


FBI also aided and abetted the bombers of the OK City federal building, while blocking release of a dozen videotapes showing the building explode from the inside out (proving bombs were placed by FBI and BATF).
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6517776133137328105

This same FBI aided and abetted the 9/11 terrorists in the White House, while the patsy terrorists lived with an FBI informant and got training on US military bases. No alleged terrorists were videotaped boarding any hijacked airliners on 9/11, nor were any named on the passenger lists. The FBI admits USAma Bin Laden had nothing to do with 9/11.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5948263607579389947

Quote:

"I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks.”
—Usama bin Laden, CNN, "Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks," September 17, 2001


http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming."
—Dick Cheney, "Interview of the Vice President by Tony Snow", March 29, 2006


www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/03/20060329-2.html

QUESTION: "Mr President, in your speeches, you rarely mention Osama Bin Laden. Why is that?"
GEORGE BUSH JR: "I don't know where he is. I just don't spend that much time on him."



QUESTION: "But Osama bin Laden is the one that — you keep talking about his lieutenants, and, yes, they are very important, but Osama bin Laden was the mastermind of 9/11..."
DANA PERINO: "No, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was the mastermind of 9/11, and he’s sitting in jail right now." (torture only produces false confessions)



"9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page. He has not been formally indicted and charged in connection with 9/11 because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”
—FBI agent Rex Tomb, June 6, 2006
www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm

"The goal has never been to get Bin Laden."
—General Richard Myers, chairman, US Joint Chiefs of Staff
www.myspace.com/911pressfortruth

"The FBI has issued a BOLO on suspected terrorists driving a white delivery van from New York City to the Mexican border. The suspects are using Israeli passports. They are armed and dangerous."
-Knox County Emergency 911 Dispatch, BOLO Be On the Lookout, Knoxville, Tennessee, September 11, 2001, 11am EST
www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html
www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0622-05.htm


FBI will pay you $1-Million Reward to arrest this Jewish leader of AllCIAduh

"The FBI added Adam Gadahn to the Most Wanted Terrorist list and the U.S. State Department is offering a reward up to $1 million for his arrest. A 28-year-old California man has been indicted on federal charges of treason and providing material support to a terrorist group for making a series of propaganda videotapes for al Qaeda, including one in which he praised the hijackers involved in the 9/11 attacks. 'Adam Gadahn represents a new breed of home-grown extremist, who has chosen to betray the country of his birth,' FBI Executive Assistant Director Willie Hulon said during a press conference Wednesday in Washington, D.C."
-FBI Most Wanted Poster
www.fbi.gov/page2/oct2006/gadahn101106.htm

"In Sept of last year, Adam Gadahn [aka Adam Perlman], the son of Jewish parents, the son of Jewish grandparents [who are on the board of directors of Jewish ADL] in Southern California, who himself converted to Islam, went on to become Osama Bin Laden's spokesman."
-Congresswoman Jane Harman (D-CA), Jewish chairman
Homeland Security Subcommittee on Intelligence, Information Sharing, and Terrorism Risk Assessment
CSPAN, Use of the Internet by Terrorists: Using the Web as a Weapon for 9/11 Truth, November 6, 2007
www.piratenews.org/flight93.html



The FBI crime lab confessed to falsifying 100s of cases to convict innocent people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsified_evidence

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 22, 2009 11:59 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Frem,

There are degrees to what you are saying.

Spanking a child, who doesnt have the capabaility of understanding what they did was wrong and why...and as a way of promoting rpotection....not bad.

Beating a kid because they got on your nerves, you had a bad day, ect....bad.

Kids (and by kids I mean those between 5-10) do not have the wherewithall to understand complex cause and effect actions.

They don't understand that lighting a book of matches in the living room could burn the house down.. With them in it, I might add. They just think its neat to watch the match burn.

Explaining it to them doesnt always work, and a quick spanking ALONG WITH a scolding, drives home the point so that they won't do it again.

I got no problem with spankings, so long as its done for the right reasons and with the right amount of force.

"Spare the rod ect..."


Then again, some dumbass beating on their kid cus they got turned down for a loan/date/job...frak them.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 22, 2009 12:03 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


I've done the hand-swat, but rarely - as in: I said NO ! (swat hand) Hot. DON'T touch ! NO TOUCH.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 22, 2009 12:13 PM

BYTEMITE


I do agree with the "kids are people" idea. I kind of think the voting age should be set lower, possibly in the vicinity of twelve. Might need to demonstrate somehow that it's of their own volition, that their parents aren't trying to cheat the system and use them to basically vote twice, but yeah. I've meet some 12 year olds that actually cared and understood about policy as it was happening in their community, and thought it was a shame that they had no real voice on the issue.

So I can see where you're coming from about not hitting the kids.

On the other hand, I've been whalloped a few times myself, even in anger (I can be frustrating as hell). So I also have to see hitting sometimes as justified, and recognize it's time honoured validity in behavioural adjustment. Extends back into the evolutionary roots.

There's a difference between discipline and abuse. I think the limit is about at permanent harm (physical or mental) and bruises. Once you cross into that territory, it's abuse, until then, I don't see it that way.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, January 22, 2009 12:39 PM

DREAMTROVE


Ooh! I'm glad I brought the popcorn. Forget this agree to disagree stuff, bring on the vectors!

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Ghosts
Thu, October 31, 2024 20:30 - 72 posts
U.S. House Races 2024
Thu, October 31, 2024 20:30 - 5 posts
Election fraud.
Thu, October 31, 2024 20:28 - 35 posts
Will religion become extinct?
Thu, October 31, 2024 19:59 - 90 posts
Japanese Culture, S.Korea movies are now outselling American entertainment products
Thu, October 31, 2024 19:46 - 44 posts
Elon Musk
Thu, October 31, 2024 19:33 - 28 posts
Kamala Harris for President
Thu, October 31, 2024 19:24 - 594 posts
A.I Artificial Intelligence AI
Thu, October 31, 2024 19:16 - 237 posts
How do you like my garbage truck?
Thu, October 31, 2024 18:49 - 2 posts
Trump on Joe Rogan: Full Podcast
Thu, October 31, 2024 18:05 - 7 posts
Israeli War
Thu, October 31, 2024 18:04 - 62 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Thu, October 31, 2024 17:58 - 4657 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL