REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Ron Paul

POSTED BY: WULFENSTAR
UPDATED: Friday, February 6, 2009 15:46
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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 10:13 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Look, I've come to this site for years now.

I guess I believe that its the best place to find folks who believe as I do....that we have allowed our country to desecrate the Constitution to the point where WE, as the PEOPLE, must return it to it original intent.

I'm not a political man. Politics, as they are today, suck donkey balls. Our "politicians" don't give a shit about you or me. They want to gain power and make money.

Its simple for them, but destroys our freedoms and our lives.

I say no more.

The ONE man whom I have found that believes in our Constitution is Ron Paul.

I say this knowing full well that many people are familiar with him only through "You Tube" and the internet.

But I met the man. In fact, I talked with him for almost 2 hours. When was the last time ANY of YOU talked to your representatives?

You want "Hope", you want "Change"? Look to Ron Paul. He believes HARD in our country and its principles AND US.

I know alot will laugh when I mention the mans name. Its ok. I don't care. Those that laugh are just the sheeple, who have been led astray.

But, WE CAN BE GREAT AGAIN.

It's time to man up and remember what it means to be Americans. To stand true, if it do ya fine.













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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 10:27 AM

RIVERDANCER


...The election is over, Wulf.

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 10:32 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by RiverDancer:
...The election is over, Wulf.



I'm pretty sure I agree, and if it wasn't, RP still would not be the answer.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 10:32 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


The election may be over. It doesn't matter.

Don't you see that?

These things we believe don't die, don't change because of one election.

We CAN turn things around. Make them right and better.


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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 10:35 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
The election may be over. It doesn't matter.

Don't you see that?

These things we believe don't die, don't change because of one election.

We CAN turn things around. Make them right and better.



You missed the boat by about 50 years. Founding Father America and Imperial America are not the same thing.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 10:38 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


No they are NOT.

But we CAN bring it back to what it SHOULD have been.

God, I feel like I'm screaming into the storm some days.

But it doesn't matter.




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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 10:41 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Look, it doesn't matter.

I may have shot myself in the foot, posting honestly. Some may not hear me.

But hear me, I beg.

We can pull things together. We can hold the dark. We can become the light again.

It will take work, hard, long, work.

But when was the last time you felt proud of what you did?

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 10:44 AM

WHODIED


If you anagram 'Ron Paul' you get

OUR PLAN

which, I've heard, is just a "goddamn piece of paper". Oh well.

--WhoDied


_______________________

All those secrets you've been concealing
Say you're happy now...



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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 10:46 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Seriously.

When was the last time you got home and felt proud of what you had accomplished?

When was the last time you worked, not for yourself, but for something larger than yourself?

If you can say honestly that you have, then God bless you and keep on.

But as for me, I think we have been put in these time for a reason. For a purpose.


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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 10:48 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Look, it doesn't matter.

I may have shot myself in the foot, posting honestly. Some may not hear me.

But hear me, I beg.

We can pull things together. We can hold the dark. We can become the light again.

It will take work, hard, long, work.

But when was the last time you felt proud of what you did?



I agree with much of what you say, even in much what RP says, but he's not the man. Trust me. The guy has too many kooky ideas mixed into his platform.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 10:48 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Its times like these that we MUST stand.


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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 10:51 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


I'm not going to get into where Ron Paul stands. You can look that up for yourself.

But when you do... ask yourself if what he says is so crazy.

You keep what you earn. You don't fight unless you believe in it. You can say what you like, believe what you want, and hold true to all of it.

Fuck. I'd LOVE to live in a world like that.

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 10:55 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Im going to go all PN on this.

I don't want to let this one go.

So, consider this a

BUMP.

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 11:06 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Bump

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 11:07 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
The ONE man whom I have found that believes in our Constitution is Ron Paul.


That's ironic because while I've seen and read the Constitution...held it in my hand...and therefore I "believe" in it, I have never actually seen Ron Paul in person.

I've never had the chance to go up and poke him or anything. I simply don't believe in Ron Paul. He's a fictional character I saw on TV last year.

I also don't believe in Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, the Great Pumpkin, or Kelly Monaco (noboby can be THAT hot).

H

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 11:09 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Whats your point Hero?

Just trying to pull the wool, so to speak?


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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 11:11 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
When was the last time you got home and felt proud of what you had accomplished?


Lunch. What can I say? I had a good morning.
Quote:


When was the last time you worked, not for yourself, but for something larger than yourself?


I'm doing that right now. I've noted that the City is MUCH larger then I am. I'd suggest the only people who don't work for something larger then themselves are the self-employed or the unemployed.
Quote:


If you can say honestly that you have, then God bless you and keep on.


Thank you my friend. And God Bless you and all your crazy talk.

H

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 11:14 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Whats your point Hero?


Hey, your the one who mentioned Ron Paul and lost all credibility.

If Ron Paul is the only person you know who believes in the Constitution...you don't know very many people...in fact, I'd suggest you don't know Ron Paul.

H

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 11:14 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Hero,

You forget yourself.

Crazy talk? Ok.

That's cool. I'd rather be crazy than defend a system that tears at the very fabric of humanity.

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 11:17 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"Hey, your the one who mentioned Ron Paul and lost all credibility.

If Ron Paul is the only person you know who believes in the Constitution...you don't know very many people...in fact, I'd suggest you don't know Ron Paul.

H"


LOL


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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 11:24 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Bump motherfuckas

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 11:30 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Bump once again

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 11:33 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
That's cool. I'd rather be crazy than defend a system that tears at the very fabric of humanity.


There you go again Jimmy...er...PirateNews...er...

I note for the record that if you are in fact crazy and you prefer that to defending the system...perhaps your judgement about the system is suspect.

The opinion of crazy people...is not always reliable. I can see it now. Would you trust a crazy person to do your taxes or operate on your child? Of course you would...you'd rather be crazy then defend a system that tears at the very fabric of humanity.

Most people don't think that way.

H

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 11:34 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Bump once again


A valid point. Bump indeed.

Edited to add: In fact this is the best point you've made in this discussion.

H

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 11:41 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"The opinion of crazy people...is not always reliable. I can see it now. Would you trust a crazy person to do your taxes or operate on your child? Of course you would...you'd rather be crazy then defend a system that tears at the very fabric of humanity."

It was "crazy" to believe that people can rule themselves without a "governing class". Without kings, and bishops to tell them what to do.

Those, I stand with.

But Hero, you are a lawyer... who can believe ANYTHING you say?


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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 11:45 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
It was "crazy" to believe that people can rule themselves without a "governing class". Without kings, and bishops to tell them what to do.


Actually I found the argument quite reasonable...as do most people. The kings and bishops disagree...the real question is how can we rule ourselves without the guidance of intellectual liberal elites? The answer is...we just do.
Quote:


But Hero, you are a lawyer... who can believe ANYTHING you say?


The only people that matter are the twelve in the box.

H

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 11:52 AM

SERGEANTX


C'mon Wulf, Ron Paul just can't be taken seriously.

Heck, I remember back in the primaries last year he was going on and on, ranting like a loon about how the economy was going to collapse! Now he's saying that trillions of dollars of deficit spending to support failing banks and corporations is a bad idea! The guy is just out of synch with the conventional wisdom. Doesn't he even read the paper?

And if it was up to him, we'd never have liberated Iraq. We wouldn't be using our military to protect valuable markets for multi-national corporations, and we wouldn't have our fingers in the internal politics of half the nations on the planet. That's "isolationism". It's crazy talk!

And, get this, he thinks the point of the constitution is to protect the citizens from overreaching government! Where in the hell did he come up with that??

Get real, Wulfenstar.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 11:52 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Bump...

And you are still arguing for a system that puts people who shouldn't even BE there, on trial...


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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 12:02 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Bump motherfuckas



Ok, now you've sold me.





It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 12:08 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Sometimes you have to resort to shock value to get attention to what is right.

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 12:16 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


Oh, yeah, Ron Paul totally believes in the Constitution... except for that pesky Establishment Clause.

Quote:

The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers.


http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul148.html

Quote:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. [bolded emphasis mine]


http://www.usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html

I also cannot take seriously anybody who honestly believes that there's a War on Religion/Christianity/Christmas. I just cannot.

----------
"Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space, 'cause there's bugger all down here on Earth."

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 12:57 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by yinyang:

I also cannot take seriously anybody who honestly believes that there's a War on Religion/Christianity/Christmas. I just cannot.

----------
"Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space, 'cause there's bugger all down here on Earth."




A " war " ? Dunno about that, but there's certainly a movement goin' on. Even this atheist can testify ( pun intended ) to recognizing as such.






It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager


" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 2:09 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Bada-bump

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 3:29 PM

DREAMTROVE


YY

The point isn't that Dr. Paul is always right. He's not a savior. He's a man who speaks what he believes, and has the guts to speak it to power.
Ron Paul earned my respect in 2001 with his rant against the USA Patriot act. Ever since, he has never failed to disappoint. He speaks for the people, whether they agree with him or not.

Did you see where he said don't vote for me, vote for someone who believes what you believe? He's why I voted for McKinney. I don't agree with McKinney on a lot of things, but I think that she speaks truth to power, and says some things that the game players aren't going to say.

This is about do you want your future made in backroom handshake deals with politicos and corporates, or do you want people who stand up for what they believe, and stand up for the people. Even if they're not your people, I think this is a no brainer.

My point again, which I think is Wulf's point. I'm a person of faith, not a christian, obviously, believe that life is sacred, not a fan of PC and so sure, generally conservative. McKinney is not, and the Green party, well, the greens may be a sham, but McKinney is the real deal. And Dr. Paul is the real deal.

So, imagine this: A world in which the leaders were people who disagreed about what was best for their country, who represented different people, who had different beliefs, interests and ambitions, and argued viciously for those ideals the their people believed it, and in the end, shook hands, and sat down, and discussed solutions that we all could live with.

Now look at what's going on, right now. Barack Obama is a lot better than Bush, no question there. But billions in bailouts, corporations and lobbyists playing games. I mean, if Obama looked at his people and the world situation, he could say "Okay, that's it, no more handouts. And this debt... we don't owe this debt to the federal reserve for printing our money. Oh, and drug companies, hey, I know what you guys do at night, running drugs into this country, and I know what you do during the day, manipulating the prices of medicines, pushing treatments that don't work just to make an extra billion, charging a thousand bucks for a bottle of pills, well, all of that stops right here. And, hey, Israel, back off of Gaza if you ever want to see any more US aid. Yeah, I'm telling you this because this is what my people want.

That would be nice, wouldn't it? And maybe in his head, Obama is thinking just that. But even if he is, he can't say it, because he's in the game, he's surrounded by people who represent all of those special interests. They decide what the rules are, what policies we can or can't support, and they can do this because the majority of people in positions of power work for one or more special interests.

So, instead we'll attack rural villagers in Afghanistan and Pakistan and pretend that they are enemies or a threat to the United States, which is absurd, absolutely absurd.

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 3:45 PM

FREMDFIRMA


You need to start on a lower scale, Wulf.

Funny, I got a visit from the city council of the new podunk town wanting to hire me for a nominal fee as a consultant - to which I grinned and pointed out that said agreement would then prevent me from running against them due to conflict of interest, which was prolly their plan.

No Deal.

Even if I have no plans to do so, holding that THREAT in reserve against them has kept them concerned, which is just how it should be.

I told em word for word "You SHOULD be scared of your constituents, they're your BOSS, morons!"
And the council reps response ?
"They're right, you ARE nuts!"

As Niska would say, this is reputation, is solid.

Run local, Wulf.

-F

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 6:07 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


DT - I was only disagreeing with Wulf's assessment that Ron Paul "believes in our Constitution." Politicians who ignore or downplay the Establishment Clause make me nervous, especially when they're Christians.

Now, I could go into all the other reasons I've found to be wary of Ron Paul, but frankly, I don't care enough to get into that argument.

----------
"Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space, 'cause there's bugger all down here on Earth."

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 7:16 PM

DREAMTROVE


YY

IMHO, Christians are probably less likely to affect public policy than muslim or jewish populations. Arguably, the masons who set the whole thing up put a lot of influence into it, and could be called a religion.

Religion dominates public policy. For instance: Given our mideast interests, for US to support Israel, from a purely pragmatic standpoint, is not wise. (I support Israel, not it's recent actions, but that's not my point): It's strategically terrible for the US govt. to do so. It would be like starting our Africa policy by aligning ourselves with Mugabe. Maybe worse.

War on Christians, I'll easily concede them that. When the govt. is killing people with bombs and guns, that's a war. The war on Christians began with Waco, and is now has a toll of over 11 million internationally. There are a few groups out there that do a serious job on this. I know the head of one, and we have fantastic arguments, but she has a point, and everyone fighting for the future at 89 should be commended.

So yeah, it's annoying when Christians push their beliefs on you, but they do have a point. Then there are people like Bill O'Reilly who get their hookers and coke and party all night and then come on and pretend to be devout Christians. Were I one, I'd be offended.

Now we have a war on islam, which has yet to hit those death levels, but can easily pass them if we end up at war with Pakistan or Iran. But beyond that, anti-islam permeates society.

The establishment clause cuts both ways: the state cannot be aligned for or against a particular faith.

This hasn't just been tweaked, it's been wholesale abandoned.

Myself, I think the Constitution is a flawed document. It was created with the intention to ban the bill of rights, institutionalize white supremacy, dilute the power of the people, and establish totalitarian rule. The thing was created by the federalists who were the neocons of their day, to replace the more moderate articles of confederation and the bill of rights.

Note I said "intention." The resulting document is a compromise, so it's a mixed bag. There's some support for slavery; bill of rights is included, but a supreme court, created with the express purpose of stripping those rights, is given ultimate authority; and the creation of a CIC dictator; and the bicameral legislature to dilute process.

Quote:

The establishment clause of the First Amendment was simply intended to forbid the creation of an official state church like the Church of England, not to drive religion out of public life.


He's actually right about this. The govt. collectively cannot be biased for or against a particular faith, which at the time meant sect of Christianity, but was ruled to include Islam in 1850, and others later on, and currently includes all major world religions, the most recent addition I think was Wicca in 1990. (?)

It was never meant to say that a Christian could not be actively Christian in govt. I suspect no one supports the whole constitution. E.g.: Non-whites counted as 3/5 of a vote is in the body itself. Stuff like that. The document is amendable, fortunately, otherwise it would be hopeless. I don't think that makes Dr. Paul a hypocrite.

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 8:28 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
the most recent addition I think was Wicca


Yep, though that doesn't mean families don't have to go to court to get a pentacle placed on a tombstone for their son who died in Iraq. Goddess bless America.

[/sig]

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Tuesday, February 3, 2009 9:47 PM

SERGEANTX


Quote:

Originally posted by yinyang:
DT - I was only disagreeing with Wulf's assessment that Ron Paul "believes in our Constitution." Politicians who ignore or downplay the Establishment Clause make me nervous, especially when they're Christians.



I'm not real happy about his views on this either, but it's a very small thing in the bigger picture. In the quote you cited he was speaking to the general concern of modern Christians that they are supposed to deny any religious motivation in their political beliefs. I don't share his religious faith, but I respect it. The reason is, he respects my right to think differently.

Regardless, he's not perfect and I disagree with him on some other issues as well. But he understands the intent of the constitution in a way that precious few other politicians do. The thing is, I'll vote for a politician whose personal values may be different than mine if they understands the tolerance and live-and-let-live principles that our country was founded on. Most don't.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 6:33 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


From the interviews I've read and seen, Ron Paula is about freedom of religion.

To quote (rather badly) "Even if I, as president, WANTED to put forth a religious institution as the guiding priciple...I COULD NOT. The Constitution DOES NOT ALLOW IT. The President is hamstrung from setting domestic, inter-personal, policy. In fact, the constitution is designed to hamper the powers-that-be on many levels and in many ways. To keep the government from getting too large and exerting too much control over the people. The people, whom by the way, are meant to have most of the power"


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Wednesday, February 4, 2009 7:20 AM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:


From the interviews I've read and seen, Ron Paula is about freedom of religion.



Ron Paula, the ideals of the rloveution in a hot 27yo package:



Then she can be congressional rep, senator, and then prez.

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Friday, February 6, 2009 1:32 PM

OUT2THEBLACK


The sort of FAILED THEORIES that are anathema to Ron Paul , and everything for which he stands :


Government spending stimulates the economy.

"Federal spending in 2008 topped $3.3 trillion, up over a trillion dollars since 2003 alone. The federal budget deficit this year is expected to be $1.5 trillion or more. That is more than 10 percent of GDP. If federal spending and deficits were stimulants, the economy would be on the verge of a massive overheating right now. Yet President Obama is encouraging Congress to spend almost a trillion dollars more."

Raising taxes on the most productive people in our economy makes sense.

This, in fact, removes the incentives for innovation and investment necessary for recovery and economic growth. Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi has nevertheless suggested we raise taxes.

More federal intervention in the housing sector is the solution.

Senators on both sides of the aisle are pushing a policy that would vastly increase Washington's role in financing home mortgages. This is foolish. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were bad enough. We do not need to put them on steroids.

More government regulation of financial markets would have prevented the financial crisis.

More regulation wound not have helped.

"Many countries with far more onerous and often frankly more competent financial regulators than ours completely failed to protect their financial institutions, financial systems, or the investors and customers who relied on them."


"Successful theories, on the other hand," says Foster, "rely on the wisdom, energy and industry of individuals and businesses, not the heavy hand of government. Successful theories involve lower tax rates, less government spending, less regulation, and freer trade, policies that allow Americans to make the most of the opportunities before them and grow the economy in the process."

— David Talbot


http://blog.heritage.org/2009/02/05/in-pursuit-of-failed-theories/

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Friday, February 6, 2009 1:37 PM

OUT2THEBLACK


Ron Paul on the concept of sound money and Fiscal Policy :

http://yannone.blogspot.com/2009/02/end-of-americas-financial-system.h
tml

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Friday, February 6, 2009 3:32 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Quote:


From the interviews I've read and seen, Ron Paula is about freedom of religion.



Ron Paula, the ideals of the rloveution in a hot 27yo package:



Then she can be congressional rep, senator, and then prez.



Dammit, DT, QUIT DOING THAT!!

Here I get all involved with a rational, passionate debate (Okay, I wasn't involved yet, but I was reading, thinking, mulling it over, saying to myself, "Self," I said, "This Ron Paul fella sounds just crazy enough to hold my interest."

And then YOU go and screw it all up with yet another pic of a hot girl. I'm going along all fine, well and good, and then all of a sud... Ooohhh! SHINY! Pretties to distract me!

Darn you, DT. Darn you to heck.

PS: Please post more pix. I'll be in my bunk.

Ron who?

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Friday, February 6, 2009 3:46 PM

DREAMTROVE

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