Shocker: Obama just said he'll keep his campaign promises!! by AURaptor

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

"Sig You're wrong, on all counts. I'm right."

Is this what you tell yourself when you can't make facts stick to your opinion?

heh heh heh.

Whatever.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:37 AM

It's quite obvious that financial investors in America and all around the world have NO confidence in Obama/Pelosi's plans. The Dow Jones has dropped 24% since Obama was sworn in. It's never gone down that much with any new President in all of its' history. And Pelosi's Pork Payback Plan is the largest amount of money that any human has ever spent in all of recorded history. Get ready for 20% un-employment, get ready for hyper-inflation and worthless money, and get ready for a backlash of epic proportions against the Dems.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:38 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
It's quite obvious that financial investors in America and all around the world have NO confidence in Obama/Pelosi's plans

Good. These are the same bastards that got us in this mess. Why should I trust them???

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Get ready for 20% un-employment, get ready for hyper-inflation and worthless money, and get ready for a backlash of epic proportions against the Dems.

So, it's like, Dark Angel-time, eh?

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Good. These are the same bastards that got us in this mess. Why should I trust them???

When in doubt, trust who is in charge. I guess. That's not how I react myself....

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:50 AM

America loves a winner!

citizen-

Again, you're twisting and distorting my point. I never said the Constitution was the primary reason for our military, or that our military was the primary reason for our Constitution.

I said the Federal Gov't. It only follows that first you'd have the Government, THEN you'd have a federal military, after the Gov't was formed. Under the Articles of Confederation, the states held the primary power, to choose or not choose to send troops , if need be. But that was unfeasible, as it soon became clear , that if all 13 states were to survive, they'd need to act as one, and not 13 individual states.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

A concern of the GOP is that the people aren't informed enough to understand their policies, while a fear of the Dems is that the people ARE.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

I said

AU, when I want your opinion...
I-I'll never want your opinion.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:58 AM

America loves a winner!

And now you're answering to the name of citizen?

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Get ready for 20% un-employment, get ready for hyper-inflation and worthless money, and get ready for a backlash of epic proportions against the Dems.
So, it's like, Dark Angel-time, eh?

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

No, but it's like California & Michigan for the whole country. Total bankruptcy caused by Democrat-controlled Legislatures spending money that they don't have, on programs that pander to the most un-productive and wasteful segements of our society. Mock away Libs, you still haven't responded with any sane explanation to the NEW $ 3 TRILLION DOLLARS OF DEBT that they're adding to Bush's measley $ 1 Trillion debt he left. And Treaury Sec Geithner, LOATHED on Wall Street, is pissing away half of it all by himself in a futile and half-assed attempt to bail out the crooked banks. Everything MUST be allowed to fail. But not in the Obama/Pelosi/Geithner socialist nanny-state world.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
And now you're answering to the name of citizen?

Oh. I thought you were addressing me the way Batman talked to peeps on the series.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:04 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:

Raising taxes is a given, and even that in no way will come close to covering the 4 TRILLION DOLLAR DEBT that Pelosi & Obama are laying on us all.........

TOTAL Bush Debt....$ 1 Trillion

Actually, Jongs, that's not true. That $1 trillion figure is just the money Bush pissed away on his way out the door. Remember, he inherited a projected budget surplus and a $4 trillion national debt, and he left with a $1 trillion deficit AND a more-than-$10-trillion national debt, so the TOTAL Bush debt is more like $7-8 trillion.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Everything MUST be allowed to fail.

Jong, I'm dropping the funny for a moment. You really think letting the collapse happen full-force is something we could survive just now? I hate the idea of handing $$$ over to inept companies too, but is not the alternative the real possibility of losing our way of life forever? I'm really asking, I'm not saying I know or anything.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The atypical Chrisisall

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:10 AM

America loves a winner!

Everything MUST be allowed to fail.

Democrat's Better Worlds FAIL:

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
citizen-

Again, you're twisting and distorting my point. I never said the Constitution was the primary reason for our military, or that our military was the primary reason for our Constitution.

I said the Federal Gov't. It only follows that first you'd have the Government, THEN you'd have a federal military, after the Gov't was formed. Under the Articles of Confederation, the states held the primary power, to choose or not choose to send troops , if need be. But that was unfeasible, as it soon became clear , that if all 13 states were to survive, they'd need to act as one, and not 13 individual states.

I'm not twisting anything. You're twisting your own comments if anyone is. I said the US Military was founded after the federal government.

I mentioned the constitution because that document was basically the founding of US Federal government, the two can't be separated.

The Constitution, and the Federal Government were all formed with the initial desire to have no standing army, because the founding fathers saw it as a tool of oppression. It was some years later that any sort of standing military force was created.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
the founding fathers saw it as a tool of oppression.

Oh, like, you were there? You remember talking to them in a past life or something?

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The snarky Chrisisall

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Everything MUST be allowed to fail.

Jong, I'm dropping the funny for a moment. You really think letting the collapse happen full-force is something we could survive just now? I hate the idea of handing $$$ over to inept companies too, but is not the alternative the real possibility of losing our way of life forever? I'm really asking, I'm not saying I know or anything.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The atypical Chrisisall

The big 3 auto co's have just pissed away a few hundred billion in a few months. How many more times they gonna get bailed out? Throw good money after bad? AG Holder, instead of using his time making retarded racist statements, ought to be filling the jails with these cocksucking thieves on Wall Street. That might send a correct message. Right now, the message is go ahead, steal, fuck up, whatever, we'll pay for your misdeeds. Thats never been the America I know. 92% of people ARE paying hteir mortgages, so why do the 8% deadbeats & yuppie flippers get bailed out with my money? Fuck them too. If there are 100 houses on my street, and 8 have been foreclosed, so what? Someone will come along and buy them cheap at some point. Same goes for Wall Street, AIG, etc. There's always someone waiting to fill the void.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
And now you're answering to the name of citizen?
Oh. I thought you were addressing me the way Batman talked to peeps on the series.

Considering I'm racist because I'm British AND I'm an American who has never been to the UK, anything can happen. Maybe You, Auraptor and I are the same person.

Perhaps we're all the same person, every single poster here, and it's just you, yes you, the person reading this sentence right now, who isn't one of us, for we are legion.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Oh, like, you were there? You remember talking to them in a past life or something?

We are Legion. We can not die.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:24 AM

America loves a winner!

Actually, Signym and I are the same person. I just like to argue w/ myself.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Everything MUST be allowed to fail.

Democrat's Better Worlds FAIL:

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

A concern of the GOP is that the people aren't informed enough to understand their policies, while a fear of the Dems is that the people ARE.

Love it! The Democrats are building a better world, all of them better worlds.

A year from now, when I'm cooking a potato on a stick over a 60-gallon drum, the Dems will be on TV, tears a'flowin' saying, It was the Tax, we meant it for the best.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Actually, Signym and I are the same person. I just like to argue w/ myself.

We are Signym too. We are Legion, for we are many.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
8 have been foreclosed, so what? Someone will come along and buy them cheap at some point. Same goes for Wall Street, AIG, etc. There's always someone waiting to fill the void.

Well, I'm wondering what would happen if we had a breakdown of the scale of not having food available, riots & such...would that be a vulnerable time a foreign power could exploit with a few nukes? I mean I personally think we could survive the internal mess, but wouldn't that also be painting a big "kick me" sign on our nation's back?

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
8 have been foreclosed, so what? Someone will come along and buy them cheap at some point. Same goes for Wall Street, AIG, etc. There's always someone waiting to fill the void.
Well, I'm wondering what would happen if we had a breakdown of the scale of not having food available, riots & such...would that be a vulnerable time a foreign power could exploit with a few nukes? I mean I personally think we could survive the internal mess, but wouldn't that also be painting a big "kick me" sign on our nation's back?

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

I don't know, but I don't think it likely. Lookie here, I'm ranting a bit today, don't mean to, but it's like every day they announce more programs and more billions/trillions for social engineering projects. Strip all that crap away, and I'll support 100% of the actual "stimulus" part that's left.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Lookie here, I'm ranting a bit today, don't mean to, but it's like every day they announce more programs and more billions/trillions for social engineering projects. Strip all that crap away, and I'll support 100% of the actual "stimulus" part that's left.

(Back to goofy) What? That's like wanting a skinny walrus.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:48 AM

Chris, laugh kookaburra laugh, I'll save you a potato.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 10:06 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
citizen, we tried the articles of confederation.

It didn't work.

Yes it did, till a bunch of pro-neocons called The Federalists decided to exceed their authority, not bother with getting actual permission and consent of their constituents and try to trump them with a ruinous document which most reasonable folk knew quite well would leave us... well, HERE.

And here we are, aren't we ?

"I would ask how was the proposed Constitution to have showered down those treasures upon every class of citizens, as has been so industriously inculcated and so fondly believed by some? Would it have been by the addition of numerous and expensive establishments? By doubling our judiciaries, instituting federal courts in every county of every state? By a superb presidential court? By a large standing army? In short, by putting it in the power of the future government to levy money at pleasure, and placing this government so independent of the people as to enable the administration to gratify every corrupt passion of the mind, to riot on your spoils, without check or control?"

Excerpt from AntiFederalist Paper #21

Seriously, everyone saw this coming OVER TWO HUNDRED YEARS AGO.
http://www.wepin.com/articles/afp/

Of course, you'd have to learn that somewhere other than our heavily sanitized, propagandized, public school "history" classes.

It's all right there in the link above, in pretty explicit detail.

How it mighta gone if we'd had the sense to listen to reason, no one knows, and we can only speculate, but the failure of this Gov from it's inception was, and always has been, no surprise.

And no, we're NOT supposed to even HAVE a "Standing Army" - damned if BOTH sets of papers didn't go into extreme detail about that, not the least of which was Madison decrying the possibility and directly stating that the citizenry would not, should not, stand for it and would outnumber and outgun them, thanks to being better armed!

Having argued that point here end to end at least five times, I doubt anyone else has forgotten it.

Oh, yeah, and someone who mugs you for your wallet and then contemptuously throws you a couple bucks back out of pity ain't doing you no fuckin favor - what kind of cowed down wussy is gonna be THANKFUL for that ?

Fuck tax breaks, quit takin my goddamn money in the FIRST place, ehe ?

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 10:31 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I guess I'm in a bit of a Jongish or Fremish mood today.

There are certain things I WANT to fail.

Wall Street: Nothing but a bunch of crooks hustling each other for money.

Big banks: Nothing but a bunch of crooks hustling each other for money.

Hedge funds: Nothing but a bunch of crooks hustling each other for money.

Let 'em fail. We don't need them.

Quote:
Oh, yeah, and someone who mugs you for your wallet and then contemptuously throws you a couple bucks back out of pity ain't doing you no fuckin favor - what kind of cowed down wussy is gonna be THANKFUL for that ?

Sounds just like Xmas bonus from the boss, don't it, Frem?

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 10:52 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Shocker: Obama just said he'll raise taxes ... By letting the Bush tax cuts expire."

And another campaign promise kept. Amazing.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 10:54 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Florida professor, wife accused of stealing money from NASA"
"Cut out this sort of thievery and embezzlement, and our "cost" for running the Gov't comes down."

Ah yes, another memento of the Bush years. I think we'll keep finding this stuff, like unexploded ordnance, for years to come.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 10:59 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Those NSA wiretaps were ruled legal, Kicikie."

No, they weren't. And that's yet another 'Rap Fact'™.

What was ruled legal was a LAW that was later passed (under Bush) to do wire taps under certain conditions. The previous wire-taps that the Bush administration indulged in were, and still are, illegal.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:03 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Predictably, Republicans complained, much as they had done during last year's presidential campaign, that Obama was pitting the haves against the have-nots.

Just like Bush did. But now the shoe's on the other foot.

Suck it up, ya greedy bastards! You really don't need $500 million to live on, do ya???

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Sounds just like Xmas bonus from the boss, don't it, Frem?

'scuse me for butting in, but..

It doesn't sound the same. And I think this really hits on the key reason why your view of business and government as equivalent evils doesn't work for me.

Business doesn't necessarily steal from you in the first place. There are those that will, and do, but they can be prosecuted if caught. There are also plenty of honest business people who make their money by providing people stuff they want and need. With government, on the other hand, stealing from us is standard operating procedure.

With business, if we don't like the way someone operates we can (usually) refuse to do business with them. We can reward the honest players and shun the asshats. We don't get that option with government.

The corporate whores in bed with government are stealing from us. But that's not a result of government letting business run wild, it's government selling its services on the sly.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:09 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Profit is theft.

Businesses DO steal - from their employees.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:09 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Business doesn't necessarily steal from you in the first place

Yes, they do. it's called PROFIT.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:15 AM

But profit isn't stealing by nature. Profit earned by honest dealings and voluntary exchange is just compensation for a service provided. If your profit comes from deals with criminals and corrupt politicians, then it is stealing.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:24 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Profit earned by honest dealings and voluntary exchange is just compensation for a service provided."

A fair trade is an equal exchange - both receive full value. Profit is the result of anything but a fair trade.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Profit is theft.

Whoah there, profit is (or should be) a fee for providing goods and/or services.
There is theft when it's coerced or unreasonable, no?

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:27 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"Shocker: Obama just said he'll raise taxes ... By letting the Bush tax cuts expire."

And another campaign promise kept. Amazing.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

Even raising taxes on the top 1% @ 100 % ( over 250 k ) won't pay for all the goodies Obama and his band of socialist are piling into the COLLECTIVE shopping cart.

Obama made this promise before the bottom fell out of the market. A sensible, reasonable and SMART leader would change tactics, as the situation required. I guess Obama is no better than W in that department. Stubborn 'til the end.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:30 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
But profit isn't stealing by nature. Profit earned by honest dealings and voluntary exchange is just compensation for a service provided. If your profit comes from deals with criminals and corrupt politicians, then it is stealing.

Not true.

If you're the business manager, you get paid for your expertise managing a business. If you're an accountant, you get paid as an accountant. If you're the CIO, you get paid for your IT experience and service. But if you are an owner you get paid ... just for being the owner. You don't have to do squat. THAT'S profit.

In a small business, it's all jumbled together. The CEO is the CFO is the CIO is the chief bottle-washer and cook and janitor AND owner. It's hard to tell where he's getting paid for his services and where he's getting profit. But IF he runs the business like a business, he pays his own salary for his services, pays his other employees and expenses and THEN pockets the remainder. That remainder is the profit.

A company can be managed quite well without all that overhead.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:31 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Whoah there, profit is (or should be) a fee for providing goods and/or services."

A fee for providing a service is a wage. A fee for providing a good is a price.

Profit is - BY DEFINITION - the difference in the value added to your product by your workers, and the value you charge for that product on the market.

In other words, you are not giving the worker the FULL value of their work. Hence, your profit.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:34 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"Those NSA wiretaps were ruled legal, Kicikie."

No, they weren't. And that's yet another 'Rap Fact'™.

What was ruled legal was a LAW that was later passed (under Bush) to do wire taps under certain conditions. The previous wire-taps that the Bush administration indulged in were, and still are, illegal.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

Oh, THOSE wire taps. Need to be a bit less vauge when you say such things, mmkay?

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
A fair trade is an equal exchange - both receive full value. Profit is the result of anything but a fair trade.

First of all, value is a subjective term. There's no such thing as a "true value" of a product or service and thus no way to determine whether a given trade was "fair". All that matters is whether the parties involved in the trade thought the it was fair. If they didn't they shouldn't have agreed to it. Second, if you're saying any trade that doesn't fit the above definition (assuming you've conjured up a way of determining "full value") is stealing:

Why would anyone ever go out of there way to provide you with products or services?

Why would a shop owner stock products in a store if he can only sell them for what he paid for them?

Why would a warehouse ship goods to a store if they could only charge the same price they paid the manufacturer?

Why would anyone bother building something if the can only recoup the value of the raw materials?

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
You don't have to do squat. THAT'S profit.

Ahh.. now we're getting somewhere. If that's true, if a business owner really doesn't do squat, what makes the difference between success and failure of the business?

Business owners provide possibly the most important service in a free market. This service is usually invisible to people who've never tried to operate a business, but it's painfully apparent to those who've tried and failed.

The service they provide is best seen by looking at the difficulties involved when you try to do without it. Planned economies have proven extremely difficult to manage. The thing is, someone still has to make the decisions. People have to guess how many cars to produce, how many pairs of jeans, how many clock radios, etc, etc..

In a free market, business owners make these calls. And their wage for making these important decisions is called "profit". The wage is performance based - if they get it right they make more money, if they get it wrong, they make less, maybe even walk away with less money than they started with (most business ventures fail in the first three years).

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:52 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Love it! The Democrats are building a better world, all of them better worlds.

A year from now, when I'm cooking a potato on a stick over a 60-gallon drum, the Dems will be on TV, tears a'flowin' saying, It was the Tax, we meant it for the best.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:54 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
what makes the difference between success and failure of the business?

How well the business is managed.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 12:01 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Which is a JOB that earns a WAGE - and not a profit. Ask Rap - he'll tell you. Profit is made by investment of concentrated capital, not by working.

***************************************************************

Most people work for their money. Rich people have their money work for them.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 12:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
How well the business is managed.

Exactly. And that's what business owners do, either directly, or by delegating to others (in which case, choosing the right people and overseeing their efforts becomes the paramount decision).

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 12:05 PM

America loves a winner!

Employers higher you for 1 of 2 reasons

Can the employee MAKE me $$ ?

Can the employee SAVE me $$ ?

If neither of those 2 can be answered, then there's no point in hiring the employee.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 12:05 PM