REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Would you join/start a Militia?

POSTED BY: WULFENSTAR
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 01:04
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Friday, March 20, 2009 1:26 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


?


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Friday, March 20, 2009 1:38 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Only if it attracted women folk like her >





"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.



The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.

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Friday, March 20, 2009 3:24 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)




Or them.


"Somebody said that, you know, we're not in President Obama's Final Four, you know. And as much as I respect what he's doing, really, you know, the economy is something that he should focus on, you know, probably more than the brackets. And -- so why would I care about that? I love the guy, and I think he's gonna be great. But -- I love the fact that so many people are filling them out because the game is growing so much."
- Duke basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski


Mike

A baby seal walks into a club...



The "On Fire" Economy -
The Dow closed at 10,587.60 on January 20, 2001, the day GW Bush took office. Eight years later, it closed below 8000 on the day he left office - a net loss of 25%. That's what conservatives call an economic "success".

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Friday, March 20, 2009 10:00 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Only if I wanted to honeypot a bunch of Gov infiltrators to make them look stupid.

But yanno... THAT ain't so bad an idea, is it now?


-F

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Saturday, March 21, 2009 12:42 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Thanks guys.

A militia???? To do WHAT, exactly?

Defend us from an invasion of pissed-off Iraqis?

Shoot down black (or sky-blue, your choice) helicopters?

Run Walmart out of town?

(Hmmmm.... maybe the last one isn't such a bad idea!)



---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Saturday, March 21, 2009 1:31 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


Run Walmart out of town?



DINGDINGDINGDING!!!

Okay, NOW you've got me interested!

Actually, that's not quite true; I was interested once the hot girls started showing up.


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Saturday, March 21, 2009 1:51 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Yeah, but I don't swing that way.

OTOH... hot guys are more likely, right????

Hey- COUNT ME IN!

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Saturday, March 21, 2009 2:39 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


So the plan so far is:

We get a bunch of smokin' glamour babes and hot chicks from the Israeli army, and a few hunky trophy studs for those that do that, and then we attack Wal Mart.... while Wulf is shopping inside... I'm in. I want Zoe too.

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Saturday, March 21, 2009 4:12 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
So the plan so far is:

We get a bunch of smokin' glamour babes and hot chicks from the Israeli army, and a few hunky trophy studs for those that do that, and then we attack Wal Mart.... while Wulf is shopping inside... I'm in. I want Zoe too.



OR..... just don't shop at Wal-Mart at all, and let the free market decide.

I know. Freedom of choice. Cant' let such a thing as that affect our lives, now can we ?

"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.



The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.

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Saturday, March 21, 2009 5:35 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
So the plan so far is:

We get a bunch of smokin' glamour babes and hot chicks from the Israeli army, and a few hunky trophy studs for those that do that, and then we attack Wal Mart.... while Wulf is shopping inside... I'm in. I want Zoe too.



OR..... just don't shop at Wal-Mart at all, and let the free market decide.

I know. Freedom of choice. Cant' let such a thing as that affect our lives, now can we ?

"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.



The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.



Oh, I'm all for the "free" market - if it's really free, and if the same rules apply to all the players - and that means the same economic AND government rules, and no corporate welfare, no handouts for the corporations who need them the least.




"Somebody said that, you know, we're not in President Obama's Final Four, you know. And as much as I respect what he's doing, really, you know, the economy is something that he should focus on, you know, probably more than the brackets. And -- so why would I care about that? I love the guy, and I think he's gonna be great. But -- I love the fact that so many people are filling them out because the game is growing so much."
- Duke basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski



And I don't shop at Wal Mart.

Mike

A baby seal walks into a club...



The "On Fire" Economy -
The Dow closed at 10,587.60 on January 20, 2001, the day GW Bush took office. Eight years later, it closed below 8000 on the day he left office - a net loss of 25%. That's what conservatives call an economic "success".

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Saturday, March 21, 2009 5:55 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Oh, I'm all for the "free" market - if it's really free, and if the same rules apply to all the players - and that means the same economic AND government rules, and no corporate welfare, no handouts for the corporations who need them the least.


The thing about the far right is they don't really want a fair and free market place, because they're usually the ones that have got their slice all ready. If they let other people in fairly, they might lose their bit of the pie. They just say "fair" to mean "our way".

I was reading in the paper today about this dwarf that got pickpocketed. How could anyone stoop so low?

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Saturday, March 21, 2009 7:28 AM

SERGEANTX


Wulf,

The militias are woefully misguided. It's not that I disagree with the notion that small groups of dedicated people can change the world (to quote Margaret Mead, they're "the only thing that ever has"), but by-and-large these people aren't terribly bright and there are far more effective means to fight the powers-that-be than armed conflict in the current setting.

Other people here have mentioned the simple power in just calling them out on their bullshit. Most of it goes unnoticed because we're lazy. We expect the media to do it for us (sorry, they're far too busy entertaining us to be journalists). Or worse yet we listen to the apologists who persistently and willingly make excuses for the wrong our leaders do.

We need to focus on relentlessly calling attention to their misdeeds in pointed, explicit ways. Bitch and gripe everywhere anyone will listen and ignore those who tell you to sit down and shut up.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Saturday, March 21, 2009 9:01 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY


Why is it you Yanks seem to think it's 1861 again?

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Saturday, March 21, 2009 9:33 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
Why is it you Yanks seem to think it's 1861 again?


Oh, you know the American's, if they go a hundred years without a major civil war they start gettin' antsy.

I was reading in the paper today about this dwarf that got pickpocketed. How could anyone stoop so low?

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Saturday, March 21, 2009 10:41 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

As I understand it, a militia is a group of lawful citizens with common ideals who arm themselves to support those ideals. Traditionally militias were formed to aid in defense of territory, if I'm not mistaken.

If I found a group of people who shared my ideals, and were interested in bearing arms to support those ideals, I might very well join them.

Unfortunately, most people who share my ideals loathe organizations in general, so that seems unlikely to occur.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Saturday, March 21, 2009 10:45 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"Oh, you know the American's, if they go a hundred years without a major civil war they start gettin' antsy."

Hello Citizen,

This reminds me of the recent lamentable resurgance of IRA violence. My prayers are with your countrymen who were affected by these attacks, and my sincere hopes that your country can return to a state of peace. I generally enjoy thinking of the UK as 'our gentle neighbor across the pond,' and a place I'd very much like to visit one day.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Saturday, March 21, 2009 11:02 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:

Hello Citizen,

This reminds me of the recent lamentable resurgance of IRA violence. My prayers are with your countrymen who were affected by these attacks, and my sincere hopes that your country can return to a state of peace. I generally enjoy thinking of the UK as 'our gentle neighbor across the pond,' and a place I'd very much like to visit one day.


Ahh, you got me. I was just trying to screw with the nationalists on the board, don't take it to heart, please.

As for Ireland, its a difficult situation. Most of the citizen's of Northern Ireland want to be citizens of the UK, they're loyalists. You can make statements as to why that is day and night, but at the end of the day 'loyalists' now are no less Irish than anyone else and they want what they want. It's not the IRA though, it's a splinter group that calls itself the "Real IRA" (IRA meaning "Irish Republican Army"). I'd point out that the Irish, including Sinn Fein which was the IRA's political arm, has come out overwhelmingly to condemn the recent attacks.

The only compromise I can see is for Ireland to become a single political unit under a federated United Kingdom, so the Loyalist get to stay part of the UK, and everyone else gets mostly political autonomy. Would the Irish go for it? I doubt it, and with good reason. Why would they give up their sovereignty for a compromise that wouldn't really please anyone? Until then, we'll just have to muddle along as best we can, and remember that the RIRA aren't so much terrorists, as a bunch of psychopaths that are pissed off the troubles have ended, because they like killing people.

As for Gentle Neighbour:
Not us, we're still one of the major military powers in the world, and still hold on to some of our imperial possessions. Rightly or wrongly there is nothing 'gentle' about the UK.

If however you do make it over here, drop me a line and I'll buy the first round!

I was reading in the paper today about this dwarf that got pickpocketed. How could anyone stoop so low?

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Saturday, March 21, 2009 1:21 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Armed groups of like minded citizens have done a wonderful job of civilizing places like Lebanon, Iraq, and Afghanistan, and not to be limited, it did work out well for quite a while there in Ireland, during " The Troubles." ( Insert ironic smile here, that's intended as sarcasm. )

And as for," calling them on their bullshit", mentioned here, that doesn't work so well if they have guns. Frustrate a man with a gun by calling BS on him in front of his cronies, and he'll shoot you dead. Which tends to end, or prevent much, debate.

I can't think of a single thing that would do more damage, more quickly, to the already fraying national unity we sometimes have in this country.

I once took a class in the Philosophy of Ethics. The first reading we discussed defined a political state as " a legitimate monopoly on the use of force and violence. " 30-some years later, that definition still sticks with me-- it's a useful yardstick for gauging places like Afghanistan, Lebanon, Gaza, Germany, Canada and California.

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Saturday, March 21, 2009 3:43 PM

RIVER6213


Sad!

Every time White males don't get their way they always start talking about starting, or joining militia's. How typical.

-River




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Saturday, March 21, 2009 4:13 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Sad!

Every time White males don't get their way they always start talking about starting, or joining militia's. How typical.

-River





Sad!

Somebody pigeonholes an entire race and sex together as the only ones capable of banding together to fight oppression and taxation without representation. Black Panthers anyone....?

Funny how if I knew people of different races who thought the same way I do I wouldn't kick them out of our little club. Truth is, were I inclined to really do this, I can think back to a bunch of black folks I worked with, women and men, who I would trust asking if they wanted to join more than most white folk I know. An undeniable fact is, at this moment anyways, white people generally have more to lose than black people do. Materially speaking, I mean. There's less of a chance that "E" or Lamar would open their big mouths and say something stupid to the wrong people, like most white people I know would. Whether out of stupid "politeness" or if somebody put the screws to them.

Stupid, racist, sexist generalization there, Parsons.

Don't worry though. Because it's (presumably) straight white males you're talking about, it's not a hate crime.



Hey Signy.... Sign up for the sex. We all look like this guy...


Alex P Keaton's dad is my hero!

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Saturday, March 21, 2009 4:28 PM

RIVER6213


All White men deserve a bullet head (except for Mal)just because I say so.

-River




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Saturday, March 21, 2009 4:39 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Wow... what happened River? Your white daddy beat you?

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Sunday, March 22, 2009 1:37 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


That's the big lie the Left wants everyone to believe. That you can't be rich unless it was given to you, and no one earned that success.

Sorry mate, that might be the way it is over in the OLD country, but over here, most millionaires become that way , not from inheritance, but from 'new' money. They earn it, it's not given to them.

Does that mean that Wal-Mart is blameless in its business practices, or that it never gets sweet heart deals from communities ? No, that's been proven to be the case in recent years. But even so, that isn't how Wal Mart got to be where it is today, despite the petty jealousy that others might want to display.

"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.



The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.

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Sunday, March 22, 2009 1:57 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Sorry mate, that might be the way it is over in the OLD country, but over here, most millionaires become that way , not from inheritance, but from 'new' money. They earn it, it's not given to them.


That's certainly the lie far right authoritarians spout while trying to prevent people from succeeding on individual effort. People who "excel" because of mummy and daddy's trust fund, and don't want to compete fairly with those that can make their own fortunes, if it weren't for the trust-funders actively preventing them from doing so, with what they laughingly call the 'free market', but is really the market "they, and no one else, is free to exploit".

Is it the way it works in the old country but not the dynamic go-getter entrepreneurial new world, where men are men, all the millionaires are self-made and sheep are scared?

Apparently not, the US has the worst social mobility of any developed nation. Apparently it doesn't work like that in the old country, but it does in the New.

Simply put, the US is only the land of opportunity if you compare it to Sub-Saharan Africa. Maybe that's why so many people want to join militias? Or maybe the reason so few manage to improve their station in life in the US is because they're too busy riding around in pickup trucks pretending to be Rambo? Or maybe people in the US are just not very entrepreneurial or bright? Or maybe it's this free market, set up and designed to prevent new businesses from taking market share from the guys already there?

That's the way it is, despite the petty sucking up (probably in hopes of a bone being thrown their way) some people do.


Define irony: A "man" who survives on Mummy's trust fund legacy rather than his own graft, talking about self made men.

I was reading in the paper today about this dwarf that got pickpocketed. How could anyone stoop so low?

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Sunday, March 22, 2009 2:59 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:

Simply put, the US is only the land of opportunity if you compare it to Sub-Saharan Africa. Maybe that's why so many people want to join militias? Or maybe the reason so few manage to improve their station in life in the US is because they're too busy riding around in pickup trucks pretending to be Rambo? Or maybe people in the US are just not very entrepreneurial or bright? Or maybe it's this free market, set up and designed to prevent new businesses from taking market share from the guys already there?



You forgot the bit about how we are also, largely, a nation of compulsive whiners, which is why we have the kind of cut-rate capitalism we have.

"I'm still hungry, I want MORE!" "Here's your Biggie Fries sir!"
"I want it CHEAPER! "Welcome to Wal Mart sir!"
"I want a REAL Barbie Dreamhouse!" "Here's your soon-to-be-foreclosed-McMansion M'am!"
"I HATE traffic lights!" Get a gun and start a Militia!


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Sunday, March 22, 2009 4:35 AM

RALLEM


I would start a militia if I felt the government of the United States of America became unconstitutional.



http://www.swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

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Sunday, March 22, 2009 5:12 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:That's certainly the lie far right authoritarians spout while trying to prevent people from succeeding on individual effort. People who "excel" because of mummy and daddy's trust fund, and don't want to compete fairly with those that can make their own fortunes, if it weren't for the trust-funders actively preventing them from doing so, with what they laughingly call the 'free market', but is really the market "they, and no one else, is free to exploit".


People who "excel" from inheritance only comprise of less than 1/4th of the millionaires in the U.S. 80% of their wealth has been made in one generation. The only lie here is that you can't make it here in the U.S., while the reality is, that's why so many immigrants want to come here, to make a standard of living which far exceeds where most of them came.

Quote:

Define irony: A "man" who survives on Mummy's trust fund legacy rather than his own graft, talking about self made men.


As stray shot directed at me ? Hell, you missed by a country mile, yet again.

I've never had any sort of a trust fund, and I'm currently working 2 jobs. I've worked 3 jobs at once, for a while, and never have lived on welfare. Every penny I'm spending has come from my own work.

It's humorous that you continue to paint such a distorted view of me, I'm starting to think the basis of this is your own life, and you're just too ashamed to admit it. Instead, you project your faults onto others, as a means of dealing w/ your insecurities.

Or you could be just ignorant as a door knob, and simply don't know any better.

Might be a bit of both.

"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.



The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.

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Sunday, March 22, 2009 5:37 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

...that's why so many immigrants want to come here, to make a standard of living which far exceeds where most of them came.



I thought it was because they were lazy and wanted to live off the government teat. Isn't that the usual right-wing argument against immigrants?


"Somebody said that, you know, we're not in President Obama's Final Four, you know. And as much as I respect what he's doing, really, you know, the economy is something that he should focus on, you know, probably more than the brackets. And -- so why would I care about that? I love the guy, and I think he's gonna be great. But -- I love the fact that so many people are filling them out because the game is growing so much."
- Duke basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski

Mike

A baby seal walks into a club...



The "On Fire" Economy -
The Dow closed at 10,587.60 on January 20, 2001, the day GW Bush took office. Eight years later, it closed below 8000 on the day he left office - a net loss of 25%. That's what conservatives call an economic "success".

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Sunday, March 22, 2009 6:26 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Well, that's what so many are now finding out, that the Dems want to enroll as many on welfare and get them into the voting booths.

"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.



The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.

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Sunday, March 22, 2009 6:46 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

I once took a class in the Philosophy of Ethics. The first reading we discussed defined a political state as " a legitimate monopoly on the use of force and violence. " 30-some years later, that definition still sticks with me-- it's a useful yardstick for gauging places like Afghanistan, Lebanon, Gaza, Germany, Canada and California.



What that particular list of countries? Just curious as I'm from Germany and don't often find it compared in this way.

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Sunday, March 22, 2009 7:04 AM

OUT2THEBLACK


Quote:

Originally posted by rallem:
I would start a militia if I felt the government of the United States of America became unconstitutional.




Best get started then...You're already late .

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Sunday, March 22, 2009 7:45 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
People who "excel" from inheritance only comprise of less than 1/4th of the millionaires in the U.S. 80% of their wealth has been made in one generation. The only lie here is that you can't make it here in the U.S., while the reality is, that's why so many immigrants want to come here, to make a standard of living which far exceeds where most of them came.


The US has the lowest social mobility of any developed nation, which means if you're poor, you'll be more like to remain so than in any other developed nation in the world. You have the opportunity to bus tables for minimum wage! Woo Hoo. That's not a lie, it's a fact.

But hey, if you want to compare the US favourably to the third world, go ahead. You might have the least opportunity of every comparable developed nation, but you've got Zimbabwe beat! Go you!
Quote:


It's humorous that you continue to paint such a distorted view of me, I'm starting to think the basis of this is your own life, and you're just too ashamed to admit it. Instead, you project your faults onto others, as a means of dealing w/ your insecurities.


Obviously I hit a nerve, since you're desperately failing about trying to enact the "I'm rubber, you're glue" defence. I don't expect you to confirm it with words, your behaviour and desperation to turn it back on me does that for you.

I was reading in the paper today about this dwarf that got pickpocketed. How could anyone stoop so low?

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Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:24 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

I once took a class in the Philosophy of Ethics. The first reading we discussed defined a political state as " a legitimate monopoly on the use of force and violence. " 30-some years later, that definition still sticks with me-- it's a useful yardstick for gauging places like Afghanistan, Lebanon, Gaza, Germany, Canada and California.



What that particular list of countries? Just curious as I'm from Germany and don't often find it compared in this way.


I just picked some out of my head, the first that came to mind. Afghanistan, Gaza and Lebanon all stack up as approximately equal bad examples. Seems like, with recent news, I could have also listed Colombia and Mexico. Modern Germany, Canada and California all stack up more or less equally as good guys. Not that there aren't problems with the past in those places, but right now, they aren't bad. All places where there is a pretty reliable rule of law, legal process, and a lack of competing forces on the street. I probably could have included Switzerland, Sweden, and England as all more or less equal, as well as France and Poland. Certainly no criticism intended of the last 3 places I listed.

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Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:52 PM

AGENTROUKA


I see. Thank you for clarifying.

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Sunday, March 22, 2009 11:57 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Dunno where you get your stats, or how it is that you interpret them, but clearly, you're wrong. Why would so many continue to come here if there was no hope of improving their lives ? Unless it's a fact that being "poor" here in the US still has a better standard of living than the middle class of Western Europe.

And I'm in no way " failing about " or trying to enact any sort of a defense. You're simply wrong, and I'm curious as to why it is important for you to develop this imaginary construct you seem to have made for me. That'd you'd spend so much time even thinking of these sorts of things at all is fascinating. And funny.




"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.



The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.

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Monday, March 23, 2009 12:20 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Dunno where you get your stats, or how it is that you interpret them, but clearly, you're wrong.


"Clearly you're wrong". What a marvellous rebuttal, and certainly the absolute maximum we've come to expect from you. "LALALA I'm not listening, I have no evidence of my own so yours must be wrong, lalala!", the consummate cRAP argument. I know where you're getting your stats, you're pulling them out of your arse, and I know how you're interpreting them, how ever Herr Limbaugh tells you too.

Clearly that makes you not only wrong but closed minded too.
Quote:

Why would so many continue to come here if there was no hope of improving their lives ? Unless it's a fact that being "poor" here in the US still has a better standard of living than the middle class of Western Europe.

Because they probably do have a chance of improving their lives over living in Sub-saharan Africa. Doesn't refute that Western Europe has better social mobility (nor that Western Europe has plenty of immigration too, dumb arse).
Quote:


And I'm in no way " failing about " or trying to enact any sort of a defense. You're simply wrong, and I'm curious as to why it is important for you to develop this imaginary construct you seem to have made for me. That'd you'd spend so much time even thinking of these sorts of things at all is fascinating. And funny.


More flailing about and proving me right while desperately trying to smear me. Good work!

As usual you've got nothing, and bring nothing.
Quote:

Thus the picture that emerges is that Northern Europe and Canada are
particularly mobile and that Britain and the US have the lowest intergenerational
mobility across the European and North American countries studied here. The USA is
seen by some as a place with particularly high social mobility. In part this is a
consequence of using measures of class to estimate mobility (these will be affected by
changes in the class structure over time). However, the idea of the US as ‘the land of
opportunity’ persists; and clearly seems misplaced.


http://cep.lse.ac.uk/about/news/IntergenerationalMobility.pdf


AURaptor advocates child murder:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
When Pal women start dressing up their babies in suicide pampers, might be a good idea to go ahead and take care of both of them at once, before they have a chance to kill.


http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37443#687361

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Monday, March 23, 2009 2:24 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Thanks guys.

A militia???? To do WHAT, exactly?

Defend us from an invasion of pissed-off Iraqis?

Shoot down black (or sky-blue, your choice) helicopters?

Run Walmart out of town?


I have a grudge against rabbits and the govt isn't doing anything about it. All this focus on terror, taxes, the economy, the enviroment, and bonusgate...and not one dime to the rabbit problem.

Perhaps some sort of militia or group is whats needed.

So the 1st Brigade (Rabbit Slayers) of the Ohio National Rabbit Resistance Front is open for business.

If you've got a semi-automatic high powered rifle and a love to kill varmints...we want you.

And for the ladies...the Ohio National Rabbit Resistance Ladies Auxilary will be having their annual Breast Cancer Awareness Dinner and Silent Auction next Wednesday.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Tuesday, March 24, 2009 5:14 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello Citizen,

Thank you for your kind offer. I may have to take you up on it someday. I hope so.

I wonder about social mobility sometimes. How does that work, exactly? Given that you always need a ready supply of people to occupy the bottom rungs of society's ladder, what happens in a state where lots of people are 'upwardly mobile?'

Do they get a lot of imports of workers? Immigrants?

I can't speak for all of America, but I can speak highly of the situation in South Florida between the end of the Batista regime to the retirement of elder Castro in Cuba. So many immigrants who came to these shores with so very little have achieved so very much. My father's father's total assets were $1000 when he came to give his family a better life. His first job was as a dishwasher.

My grandfather retired as a welder in a three bedroom house that he owned free and clear. My father retired as a computer analyst for the city of Hialeah, earning in retirement twice the wage that my grandfather had earned while working.

Their stories may not be typical, but there are tens of thousands of houses in South Florida owned by Cuban-Americans, some of them who came to these shores with much less than my grandfather did. These guys surely found some social mobility. At the very least, it seems highly possible to move from 'destitute' to 'middle class' within the span of a lifetime.

--Anthony



"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, March 24, 2009 5:26 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


My parents too achieved a relative prosperity from next to nothing. BUT - they both worked full time till they retired in their 60s. They achieved a higher level of working-class - not wealth. And they did this decades ago, when social mobility in the US was higher.

Social mobility has been decreasing over the years. What was attainable decades ago, especially in the prosperous 50s and to some extent the 60s, is beyond reach now.


***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Tuesday, March 24, 2009 9:28 AM

CITIZEN


Of course people can exceed, and increase they're standing, but that's true of any system. I'm sure there were exceptional cases under feudalism where some peon became a baron.

But Social Mobility is how likely that one is to improve their station of that of their parents. The more likely it is, the more you're social standing, (expressed by wage in a capitalist society) is based on YOUR merits rather than those of your family or starting 'class'. The Indian Hindu class system has very low social mobility, because where you end up in life is dictated by where you start in it. A perfect Meritocracy would have a very high social mobility, because where you end up in life is dictated by your ability, and not at all how you came into it.

Social Mobility is not a zero sum game. Where you have high positive social mobility, you also have (or should have) high negative mobility. But this is still a sign of people succeeding (or indeed failing) on their merits.

Consider, a feudal system has low social mobility. If you're the most intelligent and canny human being who ever lived, if you're born a peasant, you're still going to die a peasant. However, if you're an incompetent lunatic (or as they're termed these days: a Banker), and you're born a baron, you'll still be a baron at the end of your life. In a society with high social mobility the baron would end up a peasant, the peasant a baron. As far as "success" is concerned I have no problem with it being based on your own abilities, rather than the parents your were born too.

AURaptor advocates child murder:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
When Pal women start dressing up their babies in suicide pampers, might be a good idea to go ahead and take care of both of them at once, before they have a chance to kill.


http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37443#687361

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Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:47 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Thanks guys.

A militia???? To do WHAT, exactly?

Defend us from an invasion of pissed-off Iraqis?

Shoot down black (or sky-blue, your choice) helicopters?

Run Walmart out of town?


I have a grudge against rabbits and the govt isn't doing anything about it. All this focus on terror, taxes, the economy, the enviroment, and bonusgate...and not one dime to the rabbit problem.

Perhaps some sort of militia or group is whats needed.

So the 1st Brigade (Rabbit Slayers) of the Ohio National Rabbit Resistance Front is open for business.

If you've got a semi-automatic high powered rifle and a love to kill varmints...we want you.

And for the ladies...the Ohio National Rabbit Resistance Ladies Auxilary will be having their annual Breast Cancer Awareness Dinner and Silent Auction next Wednesday.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.



Will you be offering breast exams for the ladies? If so, I'll volunteer to help work that banquet!

Mike

A baby seal walks into a club...



The "On Fire" Economy -
The Dow closed at 10,587.60 on January 20, 2001, the day GW Bush took office. Eight years later, it closed below 8000 on the day he left office - a net loss of 25%. That's what conservatives call an economic "success".

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Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:49 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Funny, all I get from this is that I should lone wolf your asses.


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Tuesday, March 24, 2009 12:05 PM

FREMDFIRMA


I did give you advice in the other thread, mind.

And I will repeat it here.

Get a camera, contact IndyMedia, and start ripping these suckers a new one on tape, or even live, with someone else rolling tape they cannot confiscate.

-F

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Tuesday, March 24, 2009 1:16 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


I agree Frem, as I sent to you.

However, just remember the 5th of Novemeber.

Lol

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Tuesday, March 24, 2009 2:03 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Argue this Citizen.




May the gauntlet be thrown down.

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Tuesday, March 24, 2009 2:30 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Oh, umm, I don't get PMs - the email addy attached to this account has been dead for YEARS.

-F

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Wednesday, March 25, 2009 1:04 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Argue this Citizen.




May the gauntlet be thrown down.


Why would I? Not me that wants to violently enforce my will on others, nor I who supports fascist regimes.

AURaptor advocates child murder:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
When Pal women start dressing up their babies in suicide pampers, might be a good idea to go ahead and take care of both of them at once, before they have a chance to kill.


http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37443#687361

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