Fact. Not truth. If it's truth you're interested in, Doctor Tyree's Philosophy class is right down the hall. by chrisisall

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Fact. Not truth. If it's truth you're interested in, Doctor Tyree's Philosophy class is right down the hall.

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Thursday, April 30, 2009 11:02
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VIEWED: 985
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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:10 AM

What is truth? I submit that there is none. Truth lives in that gray area between fact & opinion.
When AU goes off on how destructive Liberals, it's not fact (Not even Rapfact (TM)), it's opinion. He deals in non-truth, opinion & certain facts.
Me too. When I say Bush was the worst President I've ever personally experienced, that's opinion.
In a forum like this, where even documented FACTS are in dispute, how can we ever hope to even begin to understand the nature of TRUTH?

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 2:28 PM

FREMDFIRMA

By questioning everything - even the very bedrock those opinions and assumptions rest upon.

-F

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 3:32 AM

CHRISISALL

Yo- just look at the current threads...who created the financial crisis, who is dying from flu, the intel to invade Iraq- all mainly backed by OPINIONS, not fact. It's a black & white blame game.
Truth pokes its head in and out, but principally, it's emotions & ego running the show.

You're right, Frem, but most won't stop

ing long enough to do as you recommend.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 4:04 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

In a forum like this, where even documented FACTS are in dispute, how can we ever hope to even begin to understand the nature of TRUTH?

It's particularly difficult when most every discussion is repeatedly interrupted by folk who want to do nothing but either make jokes or hurl insults.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 4:18 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

It's particularly difficult when most every discussion is repeatedly interrupted by folk who want to do nothing but either make jokes or hurl insults.

Yes, that is more severely damaging to the discussion than strawmen, fact denial, fact spin, blind partismanship, outright fabrication, or deflection, I quite agree.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 4:25 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

It's particularly difficult when most every discussion is repeatedly interrupted by folk who want to do nothing but either make jokes or hurl insults.

Yes, that is more severely damaging to the discussion than strawmen, fact denial, fact spin, blind partismanship, outright fabrication, or deflection, I quite agree

Oh, like this gem today Chris?
"Jong, please wait for the hallucinogen to wear off before posting, please."

Here's a little gift for you :

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 4:41 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Oh, like this gem today Chris?
"Jong, please wait for the hallucinogen to wear off before posting, please."

You are off your game today Jong; how does my above jab fill me with pooh? Or did you miss the sarcasm in my response to Geezer?

Or is this just your "Broad Sweeping Statements & Non-sequiturs" day?

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 4:57 AM

RIPWASH

What immediately comes to mind is a quote from Adam Savage on Mythbusters. He got an outcome he didn't like and made up his own (jokingly, of course). "I reject your reality and substitute my own!"

"Fact" can really almost be as subjective as "Truth" if you think about it. Fact is in the eye of the beholder.

"Fact" - Elvis is dead.
Alternate "Fact" - Elvis is NOT dead. He just went home."

"Fact" - Firefly was an awesome, well-written show with great characters
Alternate "Fact" - Firefly can not have been that good because it got poor ratings and was cancelled (DON'T SHOOT ME! It's just another indication of what someone could say is an actual fact).

Now on a more serious note, Facts can be easily overlooked in order to see what one wants to see.
To some people the "fact" is that abortion is murder. To others it is not. Now please don't twist my words around. I'm just saying that to some people the facts are as clear as crystal. Abortion of a human fetus (life begins at conception) constitutes the termination of a human life and is therefore murder. Pro-choice people say that the "facts" are that life does not begin until a baby is born, so terminating the fetus is not killing an actual living thing. Both sides cling to facts they beleive are correct and the other side beleive has flaws.

Politics are the same way. Some will think wholeheartedly that going into Iraq was the right thing to do based on what they perceive to be the facts of the situation. Others will think exactly the opposite based on another list of facts. And then they'll go after each other relentlessly because they think they're right and the other side is wrong. Then the name calling and the degradation, etc. And then it all ends up in the sphincter of hell.

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 5:00 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

In a forum like this, where even documented FACTS are in dispute, how can we ever hope to even begin to understand the nature of TRUTH?

It's particularly difficult when most every discussion is repeatedly interrupted by folk who want to do nothing but either make jokes or hurl insults.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

Geezer, you should know by now that just about nothing I say is ever 100% joke or 100% serious. There's pretty much always a serious nugget in the joke, or a joke hidden in the outrage.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 5:05 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
(life begins at conception)

Fact: Life is an unending cycle that does not begin at conception, nor does it end at death. Applying limited human thought to an issue just tends to overcomplicate & compartmentalize the 'Verse's beautiful simplicity.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 5:06 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
And then it all ends up in the sphincter of hell.

Or Detroit.

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 5:08 AM

RIPWASH

Quote:
Fact: Life is an unending cycle that does not begin at conception, nor does it end at death. Applying limited human thought to an issue just tends to overcomplicate & compartmentalize the 'Verse's beautiful simplicity.

Ah. Well now yer jest gettin' all hoity-toity on me.

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 5:09 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Sarcasm and mockery ARE an effective form of questioning, for often we joke of things we cannot outright address directly cause society isn't prepared to.

Case in point, altar-boy jokes long before anyone had the balls to *actually* investigate the Catholic Church on the matter.

Also, ridicule is a damned effective political weapon, one which the previous pack of scaredy cats and fearmongers failed completely to take proper advantage of despite a tailor-made opportunity to do so.

Point of interest: It's also a damned effective interrogation tactic when your opponent is on the denial-roll cause it encourages them to stick their neck wayyy out, while you're standing there with an axe...

But it's not like folk have been paying attention - right ?

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 5:12 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Or Detroit.

Oh come now, it isn't that bad, besides, I do believe I have produced compelling evidence that the sphincter of hell resides in the 21225 zip code.

-F

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 5:17 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
chrisisall wrote:
Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:10
What is truth? I submit that there is none. Truth lives in that gray area between fact & opinion.
When AU goes off on how destructive Liberals, it's not fact (Not even Rapfact (TM)), it's opinion. He deals in non-truth, opinion & certain facts.
Me too. When I say Bush was the worst President I've ever personally experienced, that's opinion.
In a forum like this, where even documented FACTS are in dispute, how can we ever hope to even begin to understand the nature of TRUTH?

Truth is complex but ultimately knowable I think. Things are always black and white, even when they're grey - it's just a question of resolution, human understanding getting better so as to see the black and the white separately.

Heads should roll

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 6:05 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

It's particularly difficult when most every discussion is repeatedly interrupted by folk who want to do nothing but either make jokes or hurl insults.

Yes, that is more severely damaging to the discussion than strawmen, fact denial, fact spin, blind partismanship, outright fabrication, or deflection, I quite agree.

Well, if you'd quit using "...strawmen, fact denial, fact spin, blind partismanship, outright fabrication, or deflection...", I agree that the discussion would go much more smoothly.

Providing cites for quotes would be nice as well.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 6:22 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Quote:
Or Detroit.

Oh come now, it isn't that bad, besides, I do believe I have produced compelling evidence that the sphincter of hell resides in the 21225 zip code.

-F

Nah, Frem - I was just doing a bit of a shout-out to the old Zucker/Zucker/Abrams movies... "That's worse than Detroit." "No. Nothing's worse than Detroit." Robert Plant even wrote a song called "Worse Than Detroit" on his first solo album.

I'm sure B-more is worse.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 6:53 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

Well, if you'd quit using "...strawmen, fact denial, fact spin, blind partismanship, outright fabrication, or deflection...", I agree that the discussion would go much more smoothly.

"You know me to be neither rash nor impulsive- this madness is yours."

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 7:05 AM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Quote:
Or Detroit.

Oh come now, it isn't that bad, besides, I do believe I have produced compelling evidence that the sphincter of hell resides in the 21225 zip code.

-F

Nah, Frem - I was just doing a bit of a shout-out to the old Zucker/Zucker/Abrams movies... "That's worse than Detroit." "No. Nothing's worse than Detroit." Robert Plant even wrote a song called "Worse Than Detroit" on his first solo album.

I'm sure B-more is worse.

I thought Wisconsin was the worst place? Well, worse than Hell, anyway.

[/gratuitous Dogma reference]

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 7:29 AM

KWICKO

YinYang, have you ever been to Odessa, Texas?

Wisconsin is HEAVEN compared to Odessa. There's a reason the locals call it "O-Desolate". I spent a year there one week...

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 9:48 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
YinYang, have you ever been to Odessa, Texas?

They shoot heroes, don't they?

Or is that horses...?

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 9:51 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

Well, if you'd quit using "...strawmen"

What are you talkin' about anyway? YOU is the king of the strawmen on this boat...

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 11:02 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
YinYang, have you ever been to Odessa, Texas?

They shoot heroes, don't they?

Or is that horses...?

The laughing Chrisisall

Well, one-time Texas gubernatorial candidate Clayton Williams was from that area. He's the one who joked with reporters about bad weather being like rape - if it's gonna happen anyway, you might as well just lay back and enjoy it.

And he wondered why he lost that election to Ann Richards...

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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