REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Learned a lot, thanks, 'bye for now

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 07:12
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 4376
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Friday, May 22, 2009 7:52 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Just to let you know, I'll be checking in from time to time but posting a lot less. I need to get re-engaged in real life and hopefully in real politics. I learned a lot from my time here... not always what you intended but it's been an interesting and enjoyable experience.

What I learned:

Getting angry doesn’t help. Tit for tat doesn’t work if the person you’re reacting to doesn’t even recognize their own behavior. And there are a zillion wily rhetorical ways to derail discussion, but they don’t work if you don’t take the bait.

Many people believe that because they feel something deeply and passionately it must be true.

Delusion and fear can trap people indefinitely in The Twilight Zone. That is both pitiful and frightening to watch.

Trust government less. I’m pretty cynical about government. I assumed most politicians are unprincipled liars who are in government for venal reasons. But thanks to real-world events and our discussions, I found I wasn't anywhere near cynical enough. I came to see how corporations now own both parties.

Thanks to your probing questions, I thought long and hard about questions like how power concentrates and how it can be redistributed, the nature of true freedom etc. I’m an anarchist, apparently, and it’s not the same as a libertarian.

There are really smart people out there- people who know more, who’ve done more, thought more, and felt more than me. People who have reached profound insights by pathways I would have not thought possible. My hat’s off to you for teaching me humility.

There really are such things as authoritarians.

Some people have a trenchant sense of humor. Unfortunately, that doesn't include me.

Its “common wisdom” that people don’t learn anything from internet discussions, which are characterized as either circle jerks or pits of vitriol. I think it says something about the Firefly audience that we’ve been able to reach beyond our vast differences and form a voluntary, more-or-less self-governing association of freely exchanged ideas. It’s not often that such a diverse group of people can actually engage each other productively for so long.

I’m sure that I’ll think of several more dozen more things that I learned here, both large and small. I just wanted you to know that I truly enjoyed my time here with everyone, sharpening my wits and my ideas against yours. If we were here in real life, I would buy you all several rounds (alcohol, not ammo. Ammo’s in too short a supply right now apparently) and give you all a big hug for staying engaged for so long. Thanks for your insights; I hope the board will still be here to come back to.



----------------------
Carry on.

That is all.

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Friday, May 22, 2009 8:06 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Strange, I had just come to the same place myself.

I wish you luck. If this place is still around in the future, perhaps we will both meet up again.

Goodbye to all.


There are stellar people here I will miss, and from whom I've learned much.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, May 22, 2009 8:23 AM

SERGEANTX


Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Its “common wisdom” that people don’t learn anything from internet discussions, which are characterized as either circle jerks or pits of vitriol. I think it says something about the Firefly audience that we’ve been able to reach beyond our vast differences and form a voluntary, more-or-less self-governing association of freely exchanged ideas. It’s not often that such a diverse group of people can actually engage each other productively for so long.


Well said.

Anyway, it's good to get away and I hope it gives you some new insight and/or productivity - whatever it is you're looking for. I've made that call several times in the years I've hung here, and it's been the right one mostly. Always seem to find my way back though. Hopefully we'll see you around again.

SergeantX

"It's cold and it's a broken hallelujah"

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Friday, May 22, 2009 8:26 AM

KIRKULES


Good luck Rue and Signym, you are both among the smartest and most colorfull caracters to post here. Hope you don't stay away to long, having smart people to disagree with is what makes this forum interesting.

I'm at the airport heading out for Ireland for a couple of weeks, but you can bet on the fact that I will return like the plague.

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Friday, May 22, 2009 8:47 AM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN


I for one have actually grown more on fff.net. As I've said several times, I seek wisdom from the wise. Wise peeps aren't always peeps with whom I agree.

To you Signy: I truely hope you turn away from your belief that economic freedom and the business it produces is a dystopic influence. With the right regulation the citizenary can prevent a Blue Sun Corporation. I haven't forgotten my promise to you about reading The Worldly Philosophers, it's on my read list. I also will drag your 4-year old 2009 thread predicting the future to the forefront of the 2013 fff.net community to see how the future did indeed play out.

And Rue: I hope you will one day see that there will never be enough resources to solve all problems. You have a good heart, but some evils cannot be righted and some people cannot be saved. Human governments will never be able to produce the best solutions to fix problems. From the days in ancient rome when unclogged public sewers backed up, to our modern broken social programs, governments across all human history generally suck.

Interesting to see you both leaving at the same time. I often wondered if you weren't the same person. Ah well.

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Friday, May 22, 2009 10:38 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Well, I'll be around iff'n ya need me.

Don't forget yer black flag now, Siggy - hoist the banner high, willya ?

-F

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Friday, May 22, 2009 10:48 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

This place won't be the same without you two, and it will be our loss if you're not around.

Edited to change thread title to something more appropriate (those who know, will get it!)

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Friday, May 22, 2009 10:54 AM

CHRISISALL


*wipes tears*

It's like watching Star Trek 6... all things end...

Signy & Rue, all my best to you guys, you've taught me a lot here.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, May 22, 2009 11:57 AM

WHOZIT


I for one would like to say, PLEASE LET THE DOOR HIT YOU BOTH ON THE WAY OUT! That's the same mercy you both showed me when you both tried to get me banned

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Friday, May 22, 2009 12:07 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
That's the same mercy you both showed me when you both tried to get me banned

You didn't get banned?
Maybe your bagelness is just less evident to me nowadays...


The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, May 22, 2009 12:15 PM

RIPWASH


Sad to see you two go. I know we didn't see eye to eye on quite a bit of things, but at least we were able to communicate in a civil manner (for the most part ). I was learning from the both of you, perhaps in ways you didn't intend either, but I respected each of you.

Good luck with RL and all the best to you and yours!

*********************************************
Mal: You think she'll hold together?
Zoë: She's torn up plenty, but she'll fly true.
Mal: Could be bumpy.
Zoë: Always is

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Friday, May 22, 2009 12:21 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
Sad to see you two go.
Wow, most gracious, Rip.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, May 22, 2009 12:39 PM

RIPWASH


Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
Sad to see you two go.
Wow, most gracious, Rip.


The laughing Chrisisall


Hey, just because we disagree on some things doesn't mean we can't be friendly. Or gracious when the occasion calls for it.

*********************************************
Mal: You think she'll hold together?
Zoë: She's torn up plenty, but she'll fly true.
Mal: Could be bumpy.
Zoë: Always is

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Friday, May 22, 2009 12:52 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:


Hey, just because we disagree on some things doesn't mean we can't be friendly. Or gracious when the occasion calls for it.

In that spirit I must say you post some really good links & stuff, especially about TV ratings.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, May 22, 2009 1:06 PM

WHOZIT


Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
That's the same mercy you both showed me when you both tried to get me banned

You didn't get banned?
Maybe your bagelness is just less evident to me nowadays...


The laughing Chrisisall
Yes I did'nt get banned, I'll thank HAKEN for that.

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Friday, May 22, 2009 1:55 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!







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Friday, May 22, 2009 2:36 PM

RIPWASH


Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:


Hey, just because we disagree on some things doesn't mean we can't be friendly. Or gracious when the occasion calls for it.

In that spirit I must say you post some really good links & stuff, especially about TV ratings.


The laughing Chrisisall


As do you, Chris. You, Kwicko and I seem to have similar tastes in other threads and I almost always enjoy reading posts from both of you.

I thought this might go without saying, but perhaps it does.

We all came to this site initially with one purpose in mind: to meet other folks who had a passion for a little show called Firefly. One thing that drew me was something Fireflypassenger said on "Done the Impossible". That going to a shindig is like going to a family reunion with family you never knew you had. That Browncoats all got along no matter what their background, politics, religion, etc. Unable to get to a Shindig anytime soon, I thought this site would be the next best thing.

I was a little dismayed when I came to this section and saw some of the really mean-spirited, vitriolic comments by some to others. I since learned about the history some of you all have, but I sometimes ask myself, why did you all let it get to that point? And then I realize the reasoning behind the old statement about not talking about religion and politics. Then I often wonder if this particular portion of the forum community does more harm than good in terms of keeping the good spirited nature of Browncoats alive?

I saw some "rules" posted on the Firefly Ohio Yahoo group (taking quotes from the show as the header for those rules) and perhaps we should institute similar rules here? Would people be willing to abide by them? Perhaps I'll start another thread about that later on.

At any rate... Don't want to hijack this thread from the original intent. Rue and Sig are the focus here.

*********************************************
Mal: You think she'll hold together?
Zoë: She's torn up plenty, but she'll fly true.
Mal: Could be bumpy.
Zoë: Always is

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Friday, May 22, 2009 2:55 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Thing is, Ripper, as Finn has pointed out before, this area acts as - in his words, mind you - a "scum trap" to filter out all that detritus and keep it from polluting the other areas of the board.

I'm on other boards, and even though they SAY they're non-political, you definitely see a political agenda shining through. And you only get edited or banned if you happen to comment on it or disagree with it. ;)

This area is a place where we CAN beat each other up over the daily crap, while most of us still get along pretty well in other areas of this site.

Some boards call the RWED areas "Fight Club" - and one rule of Fight Club is that everybody has to fight - no spectators allowed. (Of course, I already broke the *other* rule of Fight Club by even mentioning it, but so it goes...)

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Friday, May 22, 2009 2:57 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Oh, and yes, some of the comments ARE hateful and vitriolic, but a great many of even those comments are a bit of snark, with some tongue in cheek definitely intended.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Friday, May 22, 2009 3:13 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Oh, and yes, some of the comments ARE hateful and vitriolic, but a great many of even those comments are a bit of snark, with some tongue in cheek definitely intended.

Almost always on my part anyway, except where otherwise noted.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, May 22, 2009 3:27 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Yup - as I've said before, pretty much everything I post is neither 100% joke, nor 100% serious. 'Course, I leave it up to you, gentle reader, to figure out which is which. :)

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Friday, May 22, 2009 5:44 PM

OPPYH


Good luck you two. You both have posted on this site for a long time. It won't be the same without you.

Man, all of a sudden everyone is following their dreams. If I had two million dollars to start a massive expedition if search of Bigfoot in the Pacific Northwest, I'd be right there with ya.

Until then I thing I'll stick around

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Friday, May 22, 2009 9:05 PM

FIREFLYPASSENGER


Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:

We all came to this site initially with one purpose in mind: to meet other folks who had a passion for a little show called Firefly. One thing that drew me was something Fireflypassenger said on "Done the Impossible". That going to a shindig is like going to a family reunion with family you never knew you had. That Browncoats all got along no matter what their background, politics, religion, etc. Unable to get to a Shindig anytime soon, I thought this site would be the next best thing.


Feels so weird reading this thread and being quoted.:)

I still stand by what I said, meeting Browncoats is like meeting family there's a connection because of Firefly.

What I have come to realize is sometimes family members disagree.

My favorite Firefly quote comes from Zoe in a deleted scene from the pilot Serenity.

"Once you've been to Serenity you never leave, you just learn to live there.

Its important to walk away once in a while. However we always need to come back when we need a little Firefly fix. :)

Rip: I hope you make it to a shindig someday. The Browncoat Ball is a great experience. Dragon*Con is my favorite Con.

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Saturday, May 23, 2009 2:25 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Yep.... didn't give a farewell speech myself, because I still come back from time to time, but with everything spinning out of control in the world like I predicted it would I've found other things to pass the time. No point in trying to change any of it. Voting obviously doesn't help.

Just sit back and try to enjoy the ride.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Sunday, May 24, 2009 2:11 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Just to let you know, I'll be checking in from time to time but posting a lot less. I need to get re-engaged in real life and hopefully in real politics. I learned a lot from my time here... not always what you intended but it's been an interesting and enjoyable experience.


Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Strange, I had just come to the same place myself.

I wish you luck. If this place is still around in the future, perhaps we will both meet up again.

Goodbye to all.


Well, Hell. It's not gonna be near as much fun around here any more.

Take care, guys.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Sunday, May 24, 2009 1:57 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

Well, Hell. It's not gonna be near as much fun around here any more.

Geeze, that was sweet.
*runs for fear of imminent group hug*


The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, May 24, 2009 2:36 PM

SERGEANTX


Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Well, Hell. It's not gonna be near as much fun around here any more.


'Tis true. You can't have much of a debate if there's no one around willing to be wrong. I always admired Signy and Rue for their courage in that regard.

SergeantX

"It's cold and it's a broken hallelujah"

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Sunday, May 24, 2009 2:44 PM

CHRISISALL


The back of my hand to you, you bubble-headed booby!


The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, May 24, 2009 3:18 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Beware the Operatives. Which is trouble you've not known. They'll come at you sideways. Sidle up and smile. Hit you where you're weak. Show you their boobs.

But I dont have to tell you about that.

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Monday, May 25, 2009 1:31 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Beware the Operatives. Which is trouble you've not known. They'll come at you sideways. Sidle up and smile. Hit you where you're weak. Show you they're boobs.

But I dont have to tell you about that.


Fixes that for ya, PN - ya big boob!

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Tuesday, May 26, 2009 2:06 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Just curious Signy and Rue...

You two bowing out now because Obama wasn't the answer to the problems? It's not so cool when the side you've been pulling for puts a knife in your back too, is it? (Or when the side you've been against finally falls and nothing changes)

I'd stick around if I were the both of you. It's important to have a voice from where you both come from as well.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Tuesday, May 26, 2009 5:51 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
I for one would like to say, PLEASE LET THE DOOR HIT YOU BOTH ON THE WAY OUT! That's the same mercy you both showed me when you both tried to get me banned


You seem to forget - you are useless, without one single intellegent thought to add to a conversations. You are a waste of space, that no one would miss if you were banned.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:10 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Just curious Signy and Rue...

You two bowing out now because Obama wasn't the answer to the problems? It's not so cool when the side you've been pulling for puts a knife in your back too, is it? (Or when the side you've been against finally falls and nothing changes)

I'd stick around if I were the both of you. It's important to have a voice from where you both come from as well.


I don't honestly believe that Rue or Signy thought that Obama was "the answer" or "The One" or "The Messiah" - that seems to be a frame of mind that has been entirely made up by those on the right.

I never thought Obama was "the answer" - I thought he was the lesser of two evils. I still think he was the better choice than "the other guy" - and the way the Rethugnicans are treating that sad, poor old man, they agree with me.



Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Tuesday, May 26, 2009 12:29 PM

SICKDUDE


Aw, dangnabbit!....

Rue and Signy were two of my favorite posters, two people I could be reasonably assured would post something smart and appropriate when RWED would descend into depressing agony. (Curiously, the third one would be SgtX...) I may not have waded into the quagmire here much, but I really apreciated their posts.

I guess that just leaves Cisall and his reverence-grenades.

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Tuesday, May 26, 2009 12:47 PM

BYTEMITE


In the short time I knew both of you, you made some really good discussions. Thanks.

I hope to see you around here and there.

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Tuesday, May 26, 2009 12:48 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
You seem to forget - you are useless, without one single intellegent thought to add to a conversations. You are a waste of space, that no one would miss if you were banned.

Pot, meet kettle.

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Tuesday, May 26, 2009 12:58 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
You seem to forget - you are useless, without one single intellegent thought to add to a conversations. You are a waste of space, that no one would miss if you were banned.

Pot, meet kettle.


Hi, Kettle!

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Tuesday, May 26, 2009 1:54 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Hi, Kettle!

Are you Story's sockpuppet or is it the other way around?

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Tuesday, May 26, 2009 2:49 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Hi, Kettle!

Are you Story's sockpuppet or is it the other way around?


You and JSF are the only sockpuppets I see around here.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Tuesday, May 26, 2009 4:21 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I don't honestly believe that Rue or Signy thought that Obama was "the answer" or "The One" or "The Messiah" - that seems to be a frame of mind that has been entirely made up by those on the right.

I never thought Obama was "the answer" - I thought he was the lesser of two evils. I still think he was the better choice than "the other guy" - and the way the Rethugnicans are treating that sad, poor old man, they agree with me.


Though I disagree that he was the lesser of two evils, we're at least on the same page that they're both evil.

Perhaps I'm wrong about the conclusion I came to on which side they came from. I just find it curious that NOW is the time they chose to bow out.

I won't take offense to the fact that you seem to put me in with the "right" side. Surely that's not what you were really suggesting there.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:35 PM

HKCAVALIER


Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I won't take offense to the fact that you seem to put me in with the "right" side. Surely that's not what you were really suggesting there.
I think if you'll recall, 6SJ, the problem has long been that since we can trace all your information back to the right-wing propaganda machine, it doesn't matter what side you think you're on, 'cause you end up carrying water for the authoritarians by default. You really oughta do something about that at some point.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:00 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Surely you jest....

I've been labeled anything from libertarian to anarchist here.

Don't pout because Barry let you down and I'm just pointing that out to you. I did the same thing to the Bushites the last 3 or so years here.

You should read up on current events. If anyone has been taking cues from the Right Wing Propaganda Machine it's Obama himself. Hell... he's so good at it that I'm beginning to wonder if Bush was just doing his people's bidding the last 8 years.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Wednesday, May 27, 2009 4:15 AM

DEADLOCKVICTIM


adios.... catch ya on the flip-flop

perhaps we'll meet again on that long journey to the middle....

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Wednesday, May 27, 2009 7:12 AM

WHODIED


However many people the two of you are, I'll miss your posts, and your consistency with regards to linking your sources.

With my schedule, it's rare that I post, as most salient points are long made when I make the scene. Still, I read most every thread, and have often agreed, and more importantly enjoyed, your thoughts on all the myriad matters.

Adieu, ladies.




--WhoDied


_______________________

Yeah, we're mostly just giving each
other significant glances and
laughing incessantly.



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