Frem, have you heard of this one... by dreamtrove

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Frem, have you heard of this one...

POSTED BY: DREAMTROVE
UPDATED: Thursday, August 6, 2009 18:03
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Wednesday, August 5, 2009 2:05 PM

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6739615.ece

I send you an email to the address you sent me, wasn't sure if you were still checking, so I thought I'd double post it here.

Oh, and hi everyone. I'm still here, just inordinately busy is all.

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Wednesday, August 5, 2009 3:11 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Hi DT, you old rabble-rouser! We've missed you!

Oh, and regarding the link...

They DID cure him, yes?

(Sorry. Bad joke.)

Mike

Sweeping generalizations are always wrong!

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Wednesday, August 5, 2009 3:47 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Actually I've been studying the phenomenon of Hikikomori for a while now, seeing it's root causes as a close match, cultural differences notwithstanding, for the same influences that cause american youths to lash out in hatred and retaliation against our society.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori

Michael Zielenziger has an excellent book on the subject called Shutting out the Sun.
http://www.shuttingoutthesun.com/

I am of the opinion that Chinese "Internet Addiction" is much the same, a rejection of a society that a persons internal values regard as intolerable and unacceptable, and so they lose themselves in a "world" more compatible to their personal values.

And of course, as usual, the authoritarian "treatment" for such things is force-resistance-more force, which works about as well as it ever has, this being just one more example.

And really, what IS the natural response to a society one finds utterly repulsive but to evade it, while perhaps acting against it as well, in varying degrees ?

I find it ironic that one of the listed causes for such is "Misanthropy", given how I do care about people, I just don't care for their company, heh.

If we didn't play the automatic rejection and ejection game that most "families" do the minute the poor soul stunted and crippled by typical american "parenting" hits eighteen, we'd see Hikikomori here, but any way you slice it, it's the same thing regardless of cultural differences, a rejection of a society the individual finds profoundly and intolerably repulsive to their own personhood and values.

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, August 5, 2009 4:57 PM

DREAMTROVE

In a way you could say we have. We have World of Warcraft and Second Life. The repression of teens creates an unnatural chemical imbalances as the brain attempts to motive the body towards socialization and is barred by unnatural obstacles.

(I'm sure you're familiar with I don't like mondays, and the whole story behind it)

The effects of this are profound and long lasting.

IMHO, addiction specifically has to produce a cortical response, and reclusive activity may be a-social, but is more likely a reaction to a failed social structure. If anything the act of playing WoW probably produces a cortical response on engagement, rather than on withdrawal as with addiction.

This sort of thing is highly unnatural, but seems unlikely to be common in China where internet is severely curtailed. It sounds more to me like govt. info-phobia to which our own country is not immune. (everyone remember net neutrality?)

I found a couple of references to internet addiction facilities here, but I still don't believe in the concept. If anything, it's probably a decent outlet for a teen who is otherwise isolated from the world.

Also, I've been studying the behavior of bonobo apes, who are essentially humans, minus a 2-3 chromosomal merger, and 3 million years of evolution, the latter having far less effect on psychology than psychologists would like us to believe, and the former having no effect at all, except to prevent us from having viable offspring via a bonobo ape.

The lack of any social repression seems to remove from the bonobo most types of human social dysfunction, though teenagers still brood, men still fight, dominant figures still try to exert power and conflicts still occur.

Japan is definitely an overparented society, and China through its one child policy has become an obsessively overparented society. We are also overparented, by the family and also by the state.

Basically I have to think that the internet which is a social medium has to be an improvement to any society as a replacement for television.

Ps. I really have to comment on Mike's new Avatar. I miss sniper kitty.

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Wednesday, August 5, 2009 5:45 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Well, you know that one of my assessments is that we humans, while intellectually and technologically advanced, are still mentally, emotionally and socially not much more than cavemen in nice suits, yes ?

On THOSE levels, I happen to be of the firm opinion that Bonobos are *more* advanced than we humans are.

Alas, we humans being humans, we'll no doubt use our influence to screw em up as bad as we are, soon enough, bleh.

-F

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Wednesday, August 5, 2009 5:49 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Meh, just be glad I decided not to swap mine for Osaka.
(inside joke, you'd have to know me and be a fan of Azumanga Daioh to really get the why)

Hehehe.

Hey, there's PEOPLE inside this internet thing!

-F

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Thursday, August 6, 2009 5:43 PM

DREAMTROVE

Humans are eating the bonobo. Bonobo can kill and eat a human, but choose not to.

I'm with you on the caveman thing, but that's a more complex issue. I think cavemen are misunderstood.

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Thursday, August 6, 2009 6:03 PM

BYTEMITE

It's funny, because I kind of think I AM addicted to the internet. I play World of Warcraft, but it's never quite made me get jittery and have to play if I'm on or near a computer the way I have urges to get on the internet and check my message boards.

Although, as I was thinking about it today, I think it might be anxiety, stress, and an escape mechanism.

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