Thank you, Barney Frank! by Kwicko

Irrevelent?

Okay, you want to discuss "the issue". What issue would you like to discuss? Barney Frank? Is he the issue? "Nazi health care"? Is that the issue? (And what the fuck is "Nazi health care", anyway?} Health care reform? Is that the REAL issue that we should be discussing? Socialism? Is that it?

What, in your estimation, is the issue here? What shall we be discussing?

You say Barney Frank didn't answer the question. Tell me, do you answer every question asked of you, or do you find some questions too ludicrous to respond to, just by dint of how they're framed? Questions such as "Do you support Obama's Nazi health care?" are like asking if you're still molesting children; no answer you give is going to be good, because the question was framed as a set-up to begin with.

So, Geez, discuss the issue. Stop criticizing and start talking.

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 6:39 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Why is pedophile pimp jew Barney Frank in charge of the bank account of US Congress, that gave away $25-trillion to the Kosher banksters in 9 months?

www.tomflocco.com/fs/PhotographerTied.htm

www.johnnygosch.com aka White House homohooker Jeff Gannon

PS: Hitler was a jew, as were 150,000 top Nazis in WW2. All dictionaries define Semite as ARAB not jew. All dictionaires define Nazi as jew.
www.cassiopaea.org/cass/hitler.htm
www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Jewish-Soldiers-Descent-Military/dp/0700613587
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/Ashkenazim.html

Thus Barney Frank is a Nazi. Remember what happened to Brownshirt Ernst Roehm?

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 6:53 AM

So, if I've got this straight, Hitler had some regiments of Nazi soldiers who were, in fact, Jewish, and this means that not only were all Nazi's pro-Jewish, but that the Nazis ARE Jewish.

And that anyone who is a Jew is therefore a Nazi.

Is this what you're trying to say?

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:04 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Uhhh...I think that "Nazis were Jews" thing deserves a Barney Frank reply, doesn't it?

Saw that last night, LOVED it...and, did you notice the audience booed when she started out and applauded Frank's response?

Maybe the worm is turning, or would that be too much to hope? I'm sick of town halls being shouted down and THEIR free speech stifled, so it was damned refreshing to have Frank respond to the woman exactly as was warranted.

As to the "issue", what he said: "Talking to you would be like talking to the dinner table". She didn't ask relevant questiosn about the healthcare plan, she asked about the "Nazi plan", which has nothing to do with the healthcare reform being attempted. That question got precisely the respones it deserved, IMHO!

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:09 AM

this was funny. Barney is still one of the arch dicks of the world, but still, I had to laugh.

The far right is jumping off the cliff into the twilight zone

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:11 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Actually the idea (I think) is that the Israelis have become much like the Nazis.

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:21 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

So now the entirely false rumor going around is that healthcare reform would allow the Feds to access your bank account.

Shit, man. What does it say when the ONLY ammunition the right-wing can come up with is complete and total fabrication???

And don't you think that after the first couple go-arounds about "death panels" and "Nazi medicine" that right-wingers would become at least a little wary of their right-wing bliars? Apparently not! Their gullibility know no bounds!

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:26 AM

Wulf,

I don't think so. I think that argument could be made, but would be unfair. The Israelis have become very much like Iraq or Iran. The Nazis rounded people up into death camps etc.

But this Nazi comparison is the protest against socialism, I have a conspiracy theory about that, but i'll post it to the more appropriate thread.

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
So now the entirely false rumor going around is that healthcare reform would allow the Feds to access your bank account.

Shit, man. What does it say when the ONLY ammunition the right-wing can come up with is complete and total fabrication???

And don't you think that after the first couple go-arounds about "death panels" and "Nazi medicine" that right-wingers would become at least a little wary of their right-wing bliars? Apparently not! Their gullibility know no bounds!

Huh. No surprise there, I'm afraid. After all, if the CARS program was going to hijack your computer, then I'm sure EVERY government program is going to hijack your computer.

Here's the thing, and if you didn't know it already, George W. Bush should have made it ABUNDANTLY clear to you, because he came right out and told you he was doing it: If "the government" wants to poke around your computer, you don't have a firewall secure enough to stop them. PERIOD. At BEST, you might delay them, as Frem has pointed out before. But in doing that, you're also really arousing their interest; what have you got that's so secret you have to hide it behind THAT level of security? So now you've just made yourself MORE of a target.

That is, IF they want to nose around your files. And do you really think they need YOUR computer to access your bank records? Hell, they've already got the bank's computers, via the Patriot Act. That's like saying they need to sneak in and steal your library card to see what books you've checked out. If they wanna know, they go to the source, not the end user.

Sheesh. I'm reminded of a Kliban cartoon, where a professor is whacking a dog on the head with a stick, yelling at the dog, "Think, goddam you - THINK!!!"

Mike

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:28 AM

I think someone should put a WHOLE LOT of security and protection onto a computer that contains nothing but pictures of cute puppies, rabbits, and kittens.

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 11:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I think someone should put a WHOLE LOT of security and protection onto a computer that contains nothing but pictures of cute puppies, rabbits, and kittens.

YEEESSSSSS!!!!

Now you're thinking like an anarchist, Byte.\

And I'll bet you money that Frem has already done just that. If he ever pops up with a "real" e-mail address or contact info, I guarantee it will lead nowhere but to a box full of kittens, digitally speaking.

That's brilliant, really. It's also why I tend to pepper my e-mails and phone conversations with words like "bomb" and "explode" and "jihad" and the like. It's not like I think anyone's REALLY going to do anything or pay particular attention to me, but if they really want to, who am I to argue? And while they're at it - and claiming not to be - why not just go ahead and make sure that if they want to waste time and money looking at me and mine, I make sure that they waste a LOT of time and money digging up what, in the end, will amount to nothing at all.

And as Frem says, I say that in the full hope that they'll see it and read it, because even me being so brazen about it, they won't believe me.

Listen - you can almost hear the gears grinding as the machine chokes on its innards and gasps to a crawl...

Mike

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 11:11 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

BOMB!! JIHAD JIHAD! HILLARY CLINTON IS A SKANK!!!!!!!!!!!

Think I got Big Brothers attention?

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 11:24 AM

Actually, Wulfie, you got their attention when you said a .308 round would decide whether Obama was the President or not...

Hint: The idea is to get the Echelon software to stumble and say, "Huh?" As such, dropping innocuous words into everyday conversation can do that, and then a human resource has to actually look or listen before ascertaining that this is all innocent chatter.

Talking about the President and referencing specific rifle rounds? That gets the attention of the Secret Service. Hope you life really IS in order, 'cause they can dig as long and hard as they want. That pressure in the roof of your mouth? That's the Secret Service up your ass...

Mike

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 11:33 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
And don't you think that after the first couple go-arounds about "death panels" and "Nazi medicine" that right-wingers would become at least a little wary of their right-wing bliars? Apparently not! Their gullibility know no bounds!

Actually, Sygnm, you're right about their gullibility. But only because they WANT to believe the worst. There are some who simply do not want Obama to be President, do not want his administration to do ANYTHING good, cannot believe that every single thing they do is not intended to harm innocent Americans in SOME way...

America is having a lot of trouble accepting change, especially the big change of a Black man in the White House. That's behind it for a lot of them; some are just dumb/ignorant Repubs who are incapable of thinking for themselves, some are ignorant people who mistrust the government whatever it does, etc.

Fear takes away a lot of independent thinking. How else would we have let Bush get away with everything he did?

________________________
Together we are more than the sum of our parts

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 11:45 AM

Well, I probably deserve that today, need a good kick in the backside. I still maintain that government isn't trustworthy, and if something ends all screwed up by this health plan bill, isn't going to do much for my non-existent faith in them.

I maintain that if the public at large hadn't trusted Bush and had been wary of government back when he was in office, we might not have gone along with Iraq.

I mean, I sure didn't and I didn't support the war from the very point Colin Powell went to speak to the UN on.

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 12:47 PM

Quote:

And I'll bet you money that Frem has already done just that. If he ever pops up with a "real" e-mail address or contact info, I guarantee it will lead nowhere but to a box full of kittens, digitally speaking.

That's brilliant, really. It's also why I tend to pepper my e-mails and phone conversations with words like "bomb" and "explode" and "jihad" and the like. It's not like I think anyone's REALLY going to do anything or pay particular attention to me, but if they really want to, who am I to argue? And while they're at it - and claiming not to be - why not just go ahead and make sure that if they want to waste time and money looking at me and mine, I make sure that they waste a LOT of time and money digging up what, in the end, will amount to nothing at all.

And as Frem says, I say that in the full hope that they'll see it and read it, because even me being so brazen about it, they won't believe me.

Listen - you can almost hear the gears grinding as the machine chokes on its innards and gasps to a crawl...

No comment. All such information is in strict confidence which I respect.

I think Frem is angry at me at the moment, we had a small disagreement, and I think I told him some news he didn't want to hear. I knew I was doing it, but I also know that it's just that sort of news that sometimes you need to hear.

Frem, My point was simple: Not everything is an evil conspiracy, some things are just incompetence and corruption. Still, there's valuable information there, from a survival point of view, and sure, some of it may have been provided by someone we traditionally view as an enemy, and really, no change there, but no one is right or wrong 100% of the time, whether that's said corporation or little old me.

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 12:48 PM

Quote:
Posted by Niki2:
...some are ignorant people who mistrust the government whatever it does, etc.

Not all who mistrust the government are ignorant, Niki. I don't trust the government, but I trust for-profit healthcare even less. They've already proven that they're completely willing to throw people to the wolves completely in the interests of upping their profits. Why would I ever believe they'll STOP doing that or do it for less profit?

So while I don't trust the government, I have a bit more trust that they're not going to sell me off to the best bidder.

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Well, I probably deserve that today, need a good kick in the backside. I still maintain that government isn't trustworthy, and if something ends all screwed up by this health plan bill, isn't going to do much for my non-existent faith in them.

I maintain that if the public at large hadn't trusted Bush and had been wary of government back when he was in office, we might not have gone along with Iraq.

I mean, I sure didn't and I didn't support the war from the very point Colin Powell went to speak to the UN on.

You shouldn't be kicked in the ass for that. You should embrace it. I knew Bush was lying the second he said we were going to wage war on "terror", because you can't declare war on an emotion. If he had said we were going to bomb the living fuck out of Afghanistan, or the Taliban, or just Al Qaeda, in direct retaliation for 9/11, I'd have said, "Go get 'em!" In fact, I did say that. But he decided he wanted to kill the idea of terrorism, and I think rather than kill the idea, he propagated it and made it more popular. Bush became the best recruiting tool Al Qaeda has ever had, and then Iraq only added to that.

Mike

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 12:48 PM

RIPWASH

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
America is having a lot of trouble accepting change, especially the big change of a Black man in the White House. That's behind it for a lot of them; some are just dumb/ignorant Repubs who are incapable of thinking for themselves, some are ignorant people who mistrust the government whatever it does, etc.

You know . . . the only people I hear making a big stink about a black man being in the White House - the ones playing the race card, so to speak - are the Democrats. I know not a single person personally who has trouble with Obama's skin color. Doing so would show and extreme lack of intelligence and high level of stupidity. I know, I know "That describes Republicans to a tee!"

Wrong.

Saying that all Republicans or conservatives (or as you said, "a lot of them") are that way makes one guilty of needlessly lumping an entire group into the same category just because of the stupid, mindless actions of a minuscule percentile of that group. Much like if someone like me were to say that a lot of liberals are brain-dead, pot-smoking hippie socialists. Obviously, that is not the case and I don't advocate that myself.

So what I'm saying is please don't make such broad generalizations.

Or at least admit that there are also dumb, ignorant Dems who can't think for themselves either.

*********************************************

"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 12:59 PM

MAL4PREZ

Mike - threads like this are the reason I can never stop lurking here. I'd have missed this little gem otherwise.

Lord bless Barney Frank! (Not something I ever expected to say...) This is how the Dems should have been responding to this nonsense all along.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 1:00 PM

SPOOKI

"just dumb/ignorant Repubs who are incapable of thinking for themselves"

Just so you know. The woman Frank was chastising is a dumb/ignorant lib not a conservative. You already knew that and intentionally left that out, or you are just ignorant. I'll go with the latter as my guess.

As to RIPWASH's comment to you.

"You know . . . the only people I hear making a big stink about a black man being in the White House"

Spot on. Nicky, Why do you have a problem with the color of his skin? YOU are the one bringing it up. YOU are the one projecting your issues on others. If you really think that is why people are protesting Obama then.... Well, I guess I'll chalk it up to ignorance again.

Get a clue please. Life will be so much better if you do.

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 1:19 PM

Quote:
And I'll bet you money that Frem has already done just that. If he ever pops up with a "real" e-mail address or contact info, I guarantee it will lead nowhere but to a box full of kittens, digitally speaking.

*laughing so hard he can barely breathe*
Mikey, you asshole!

Outing my honey-box like that!
*giggle*

I'm quite cruel about it too, it's a Compaq ProSignia 486DX50 with a mere 32MB of RAM - running WIN98 unpatched with all the bells and whistles, plus the security, and a bad network card with deliberate protocol errors and a long, LONG timeout, bwahahahahaha

And yes, it's mostly pictures of cats, bulked out with one of my ex's faerie pictures collection as well, and a bunch of the lamest fanfics ever with suspicious lookin filenames.

If trying to hack the box doesn't drive you to suicide, succeeding WILL!
*laughing soooo hard*

Quote:
And as Frem says, I say that in the full hope that they'll see it and read it, because even me being so brazen about it, they won't believe me.

Oh yes, there's some low-tech tricks you can use to detect monitoring without folk even realizing it, like leaving your cellphone next to your PC speakers - if you start getting blip-blip-blip interference other than incoming call and the occasional tower ping, someones riding your line, see ?

And I am merciless cause one of my conversational "weapons" when I want someone to go the hell AWAY is to either start discussing two stroke engines, or rambling on about the behavior of my ex's cats - which for anyone forced to listen to, it just downright cruel, innit ?
(Hondas, Mikey, yesss ?)

Quote:
Listen - you can almost hear the gears grinding as the machine chokes on its innards and gasps to a crawl...

Ah the glorious sound of monkeywrenching, grind, grind, CRUNCH.

Dream: Not at all, thing is you misunderstood where I was going with that.
There ISN'T some great grand conspiracy, any more than a bunch of crabs walking in lockstep is a hivemind.
But because they respond identically to the same stimulus, it can look that way - yet in truth it's not one big plot but a whole bunch of smaller ones all run by people who think much the same compounded by petty turf issues, office politics, ass covering and general human jackassery, which is why it is both so exploitable and so terribly inefficient.

I was just simplifying the viewpoint for the sake of making the explaination concise and comprehendable, you can only layer so much meaning into the same phrases before folk start lookin at you like you've grown an extra head - which I think is a major contributor to your own communication problems.

There's also my disinclination to really discuss something so far out of my knowledge bases that I cannot even usefully comment without sounding like a moron.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 1:28 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
So, if I've got this straight, Hitler had some regiments of Nazi soldiers who were, in fact, Jewish, and this means that not only were all Nazi's pro-Jewish, but that the Nazis ARE Jewish.

And that anyone who is a Jew is therefore a Nazi.

Is this what you're trying to say?

I just read what the jews say. Jewish historians on History Channel say all the top Nazis were jewish, and Hitler Shicklegruber was a Rothschild, heir to half the world's bankster wealth That's why Adolf turned his home village in Austraia into an artillery practice range to destroy his birth records and cemetary. Only the Separdic Semitic jews were terminated. Hitler and the 150,000 Nazis were non-Semitic Khazar AshkeNazi white European jews.

By jewish Dr Rigg winner of CIA's Colby Award
www.jewishbookmall.com/shop/asinsearch_B000V6LSQI/Hitler+s+Jewish+Sold
iers.html

Somebody outa ask Barney about his Franklin Coverup and dead pimp roommate.

"Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
-Old Dead Guy

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 1:59 PM

Kwicko: The "war on terror" thing is actually why I had issues when we went into Afghanistan. Though I don't often say that, because people tend to get REALLY REALLY MAD when you say going into Afghanistan wasn't necessary. >_>

I knew something was up when we did declared war on terror, not the Taliban, and turns out we never really had an exit plan. Plus, sneaking suspicion that Osama bin Laden is dead.

I painted a picture when I was in high school, a faded Osama bin Laden in front of the word "Terrorism" in big bold red letters, and called it "Endless War on a Faceless Ideal."

I'm pretty sure no one in my class got it. :/

Once again, 1984, Brave New World, and Fahrenheit 451. Really, really should be required reading for any high school student, because they plainly show how war can be used to both distract and motivate the public, as well as economic stimulus. But then, we're not interested in making smart high school students with the ability to think critically.

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 2:27 PM

Quote:
Posted by RIPWash:

Much like if someone like me were to say that a lot of liberals are brain-dead, pot-smoking hippie socialists. Obviously, that is not the case and I don't advocate that myself.

So what I'm saying is please don't make such broad generalizations.

Ripper, I love you, man. But I can assure you I'm not brain-dead.

Quote:

Or at least admit that there are also dumb, ignorant Dems who can't think for themselves either.

Ummmm... I take it you HAVE heard of Nancy Pelosi, yes? Harry Reid? Name ring a bell?

Niki, since you're newish 'round these parts, you should probably know that I pretty much despise Nancy and Harry, and consider them the root of what's WRONG with the Democratic party as a whole. That said, I *am* a pretty dyed-in-the-wool Democrat.

And while RIPWash and I are about 180º apart politically, we generally get along quite well in spite of our differences. Watch him, because he's disarming as hell, and quite respectful 99% of the time.

Mike

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 2:29 PM

I would throw Homage to Catalonia on that pile of recommended reading as well, cause not only were those events within the very crucible of thought which lead to the later books - it's also a rare first person account of what happened in Catalonia, as even the bitterest of enemies, Communists and Fascists, saw the seed of a greater threat and allied in crushing it.

Unless we change how people think and feel, any real Anarchist movement in the near future will need an extreme amount of both devotion and firepower, cause every Government on the planet will see them as a threat and act accordingly.

-F

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 2:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Mike - threads like this are the reason I can never stop lurking here. I'd have missed this little gem otherwise.

Lord bless Barney Frank! (Not something I ever expected to say...) This is how the Dems should have been responding to this nonsense all along.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

I appreciate that a lot coming from you, Mal. And yeah, Barney just kills me. Another of my favorite lines of his was when he remarked of Bush's last-minute Wall Street bailout, "It's the biggest hail-mary in the history of hails OR Marys."

Ya gotta love him.

Mike

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 2:43 PM

Quote:
Posted by Fremdfirma:

And I am merciless cause one of my conversational "weapons" when I want someone to go the hell AWAY is to either start discussing two stroke engines, or rambling on about the behavior of my ex's cats - which for anyone forced to listen to, it just downright cruel, innit ?
(Hondas, Mikey, yesss ?)

Hondas indeed. I can, with a little prodding, talk for hours about gear ratios, which final-drive ratios came in which cars in which markets, which ones were available with limited-slip differentials, etc.

And that's without even touching on camshafts, indexing, overlap, or VTEC. A few minutes in, and even car guys' eyes begin to glaze over!

And the funniest part is, if I *was* passing along anything in the way of plans or real information that pertained to anything imminent, it would be so buried in REAL, VERIFIABLE Honda specifications that no one would even be able to ferret it out.

Who needs codes when you've got the factory manuals to a major auto company?

Mike

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 5:07 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I thought there would be more threads about Robert Novak. I read a number of posts elsewhere that said - good riddance to bad rubbish. And a few that said - why would you be happy someone is dead ?

There is a point to this: sometimes it's good to speak the plain truth - no matter how uncomfortable of unfriendly it may seem.

Why SHOULDN'T Barney Frank call out the liars ?

I say HELL YES ! Go for it, man !

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 5:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I thought there would be more threads about Robert Novak. I read a number of posts elsewhere that said - good riddance to bad rubbish. And a few that said - why would you be happy someone is dead ?

There is a point to this: sometimes it's good to speak the plain truth - no matter how uncomfortable of unfriendly it may seem.

Why SHOULDN'T Barney Frank call out the liars ?

I say HELL YES ! Go for it, man !

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

Bingo. Since when is it rude to tell someone who's lying that they're lying? I mean, isn't the lying rude in the first place?

It drives me bonkers to listen to politicians mumbling these little half-hearted corrections, almost as if they're apologizing. "Well, I think my esteemed colleague is mistaken..." "I'm afraid my good friend here has been misinformed..." "My opponent misspoke by saying that..."

Bullshit. Call it, and call 'em on it. "That's a lie, sir, and you know it." "Excuse me, ma'am, but you're spreading untruths." "Why are you lying to me about this?" "You need to get some better sources for your information, because your current ones are liars and hacks. By their own words, they're neither journalists nor reporters, but entertainers[i/] who don't think they should be responsible for the things they say."

Mike

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Thursday, August 20, 2009 6:15 PM

Mike,

And rightly so, but you should mistrust all modern healthcare. The world's number one human killer is socialized medicine, statistics are clear, but second is for profit healthcare, followed by democide. It's safe to say that healthcare and govt. are in a close match for worst threats, when they get together, it's a disaster. The world's best healthcare, statistically, is indian ayurvedics, witchdoctors in general do better than doctors, the world's worst healthcare system is the soviet system, but africa has some doozies.

Interesting comment on the age factor, I haven't thought about it in a while. I'm guessing BM is a fair amount younger.

Rip, Niki

Not to butt in, but word of advice... Skip the partisan debate, it's a waste of time.

Quote:
SPOOKI
The woman Frank was chastising is a dumb/ignorant lib not a conservative.

Not that I care, but it does make the story more interesting, so: source?

Frem,

Yes, I believe your HD is full of cat pics, I think you've posted a number of them, Faeries? (kudos on the correct spelling)

Quote:

Dream: Not at all, thing is you misunderstood where I was going with that.
There ISN'T some great grand conspiracy, any more than a bunch of crabs walking in lockstep is a hivemind.
But because they respond identically to the same stimulus, it can look that way - yet in truth it's not one big plot but a whole bunch of smaller ones all run by people who think much the same compounded by petty turf issues, office politics, ass covering and general human jackassery, which is why it is both so exploitable and so terribly inefficient.

I think we look at this one differently. I see this sort of operation in layers:

1. There's the research layer. In this case, these guys are ace cancer researchers, and their contribution can save lives, including my own. Don't think I didn't take apart what they did and start analyzing it right away and seeing how to apply it, I did, I FWDed it to some friends of mine and we started working on alternate solutions (an applicable solution to the sick would be more useful than a vaccine)

2. There's the parent company. These are businessmen, and they are about money, they fund, and want some product they can sell. In this case, Merck, is always manipulating every angle for the most bang for their buck. They've done so much bad science in the past that I think the leadership here doesn't know what they're doing except for one thing: They know it's more profitable to buy a politician than to do better testing. They cut corners and hire k-street hacks.

3. The delivery system, which is the medical establishment. They're generally of borderline competence, and understand far less science than you would think. I rarely have a doctor who understands the subject better than I do, and when I find one, I cling to him, because these guys are assets. The fakers should be identified and dropped immediately. You don't need to be a scientist to do so, you just need to know the right questions to ask. If a psychiatrist stares at you blankly when you talk about receptor sensitivity, or gives you psychological explanations for memory loss, move on, find someone else.

In this case, I'd say I'm sure that the fuck ups were in groups 2 and 3. Specifically I can tell you that the immune reponse problem, which was the majority of deaths, was the result of the moron who changed the target age group without retesting. I suspect this moron was at Merck. Anyone with the virus who then got the vaccine would go into shock. That's a given. No 7-10yo would have the virus, so none in the initial testing group showed this reaction. If someone had seen this, they would have known to lower the dose or change the venue from shot to pill or patch.

Group three, the misconduct may have caused some of the above, but was certainly responsible for the secondary infections like meningitis, or any combo-vaccine problems.

The person here who really understands this subject well besides myself is Kathy. If you are not sure of the science in a particular case, and want to find out who goofed, some scientific analysis would be helpful, feel free to ask both of us, that will help average out any errors or oversights we make.

I suspect that Kathy and I will come to similar scientific conclusions. We've had our share of political differences, but science knows no allegiances, it's really an objective field, and the few times that we can eschew politics and discuss pure science have been some of the better convo. on this board, imho.

Quote:

I was just simplifying the viewpoint for the sake of making the explaination concise and comprehendable, you can only layer so much meaning into the same phrases before folk start lookin at you like you've grown an extra head - which I think is a major contributor to your own communication problems.

expand? I was lost at your explanation of where I get lost. I'm aware that I have this problem. I do tend to do two things I know of when I talk: 1) I go on assuming that people know what I know, and 2) I go on and on long after I should have shut up.

Quote:

There's also my disinclination to really discuss something so far out of my knowledge bases that I cannot even usefully comment without sounding like a moron.

Oh, word of advice? Don't. Science, you can't be a moron. It's totally okay to say WTF is a neuroreceptor. Where doctors come across like morons sometimes is that because of our stratified societies, they will never say "WTF is a neuroreceptor?" They're stuck in the mindset of sounding superior.

The ancient egyptian texts of Imhotep, most famous amoung laymen for designing the pyramids, was by profession a physician. He is the first doctor in recorded history to be able to say "I don't know." It was the single concept which started the advancement of medicine.

The number of doctors today who cannot say "I don't know" goes a long way to explaining a lot of the problems we're currently having in that area.

The most notable examples are things like fibromyalgia. Fibromyalgia doesn't exist, it's not a real diagnosis. People who are diagnosed with fibromyalgia REALLY DO have something seriously wrong with them. They are actually SICK. BUT, the diagnosis is bogus. It's a made up condition. The strong suspicion in the research community is that fibromyalgia is actually 2 or 3 separate diseases that share some symptoms in common, most notably, chronic fatigue.

The diagnosis is symptomatic of the fear, in the medical community, of being seen as ignorant, of descending from their deified position. Because they can't say "I don't know" and then do not try to figure out, they have invented a word, and applied it to separate groups of symptoms that have a few in common, centering around chronic fatigue.

These conditions may be the same, related, or unrelated. (A spirochete infection might cause chronic fatigue, but that doesn't mean that's what these people have. Who knows what they have. The point being, no one has really bothered to find out)

Psychiatry is also replete with this sort of nonsense.

Oh, I'll give you a couple other suspects in your case of misconduct with the garasil vaccine.

4. The FDA
5. Public Schools or community health groups.

I think you'll find more than one corner cutter.

I can give you one almost certain strong indication: The protein did not interact in the blood. It was an immune response, generated almost certainly by people
1. Who most like, already had the virus.
2. Possibly were reacting to a multiple vaccine.

You can certainly also blame whoever set the policy of administering the vaccine without first testing for the virus.

Quote:

I just read what the jews say. Jewish historians on History Channel say all the top Nazis were jewish, and Hitler Shicklegruber was a Rothschild, heir to half the world's bankster wealth That's why Adolf turned his home village in Austraia into an artillery practice range to destroy his birth records and cemetary. Only the Separdic Semitic jews were terminated. Hitler and the 150,000 Nazis were non-Semitic Khazar AshkeNazi white European jews.

John

I know you've done a lot of research, but you went off course somewhere. I have a personal friend, visiting shortly, who I will put the question to, as he is a top expert in this field.

But a few things:

1. The definition of "jew" is something I feel needs work.

2. The Khazar jews were mercilessly slaughtered in the holocaust. It's illogical to conclude that the nazis were Khazars.

3. Ashkenazi originally meant german converts, like my ancestors, but was later expanded to include Khazars, who are ethnically ukrainian. Nazis at the time would not have made the association between the two as a single group, but would identify both as "non-semitic."

4. There's little doubt that Hitler was a Rothschild. Still, we can see a pattern in which there was an effort to save semites, but not jews on the part of the west where Rothschilds held power.

5. The jewish relocation program was quite clearly real, and later got hijacked by the situation. I can see zionists supporting this in the beginning, but it's hard to see them continuing to.

Your analysis seems to run on the idea that everything went according to plan, which neglects murphy's law. I think it's pretty clear that this situation spun dangerously out of control.

The fact that the Khazar jews were spread throughout eastern europe was just convenient for the nazis, but they captured as many non-jews as they did jews. Almost everyone taken was a slav of some sort, as if it were a resurrection of slavic slavery (8th-16th c.)

Finally, you have it backwards. Sephardic jews were more likely to be Semitic, but that's far from saying they were semitic. It would be more accurate to say "they believed themselves to be semitic, and they sephardim believed the ashkenazi germans, and the khazar slavs to be non-semitic. There is some semitic blood in khazar populations, but it's negligible. This was a period and region of evangelical judaism 8th-19th c. persia-russia, which eventually hit germany. Because of the evangelism, the so called ashkenazi greatly outnumbered the sephardim and still do.

The main point here: jews of eastern europe were the ones exterminated.
This information is inaccurate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi
The history of evangelical judaism comes largely out of russia, persia and israel, but it is rejected by the zionist hierarchy that doesn't want the information heard, and that heavily edits wikipedia. The description of how eastern european jewry came about described here was what was believed in WWII. Today, we know this is not the case. Logically, it seems unlikely that 600,000 ashkenazi would have 9 million slavic descendents, and now we know, they didn't. Those slavs were in fact Khazar converts. But the Ashkenazi themselves were converts.

The real history, if you can step away from anti-jewish thinking, is that the zionists who believed themselves to be semitic, and jews to be a race of people, descended from the 12 tribes (largely a fallacy) openly held the position at the time that the Ashkenazi, which they termed, meaning "German" jews, but to which they also ascribed the Ukrainian Khazars, were, in their opinion NOT of the 12 tribes, and therefore NOT jewish, and so when the whole thing went down, NOT their problem, explaining why they did nothing.

There are a lot of conspiracies out there, like that the jews were ethnically cleansing their own people, but I think this is nonsense: This was slave labor, and slave labor eats all available workers.

Extreme Irony: The germans are themselves descendent from the thean branch of PIE, whereas the gypsies exterminated in camps were aryans.

Many jews served in Nazi Germany, as it was a way to extricate yourself from the situation. The claim against the jews was that they were traitors, and if you served, you were clearly not a traitor.

BM

OBL died in a few years ago, now, and probably then, he is and was emmanuel goldstein. I'm sure you understand.

Mike,

You make a very unconvincing democrat. Maybe you should check your dyes. Or rethink your position. Join us in non-partisan land, and you'll see that the two parties are just an exercise in divide and conquer by TPTB.

You can continue to be a liberal, but if you ask me, you're more of a libertarian. Maybe we'll all join Frem's anarchy, but in dog eat dog, i'm sure he'd kick my ass, unless i stock up on cats.. Actually, I wrote a book about half-feline humans, but I can't deal with the publishing world. I think I'll have to go some other root, win one of those prestigious prizes for recognition, and then start my own publishing house, hire some editors, something underground...

Frem,
re: catalonia
I don't know this story...
links? wiki gave me nothing useful.

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Friday, August 21, 2009 1:34 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_Catalonia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homage_to_Catalonia

Re: Faeries.

Yes, well, one of my ex's had a thing for Fae, given she practically was one, and it was no great benefit to our relationship that when it came right down to it we were on opposing sides of that belief, given that she was Seelie and I happen to be Unseelie, since I am a Misanthrope.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classifications_of_fairies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misanthropy

And so, I found her collection of pictures useful for something, at least, we're talkin nausea inducing, here.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TastesLikeDiabetes

I always did attract the crazy ones, and dealin with me and my world does their sanity no favors at all, alas.

-F

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Friday, August 21, 2009 1:47 AM

Quote:

You can continue to be a liberal, but if you ask me, you're more of a libertarian.

You're probably right, but I decline to self-identify as such precisely because of the people who *claim* to be libertarian; I'd rather be thought of as a lefty loon than be associated with some of these so-called libertarians. From what I've seen, libertarians seem to lean pretty hard to the right on most issues, and when it comes to social issues, I veer pretty strongly left.

Mike

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Friday, August 21, 2009 2:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Kwicko: The "war on terror" thing is actually why I had issues when we went into Afghanistan. Though I don't often say that, because people tend to get REALLY REALLY MAD when you say going into Afghanistan wasn't necessary. >_>

Exactly. If Bush had just come right out and said, "We's gonna hurt them sumbitches what hurted us." I'd have had more respect for him, both for his honesty and for his actually using a more-or-less complete sentence for the first time in his adult life. If he'd said we're taking Bin Laden no matter what, and we're not stopping until he's provably dead or captured, I feel that OBL would have been done with in a short amount of time. Either he'd have been ratted out, or he'd have turned up captured in some other little out-of-the-way country.

Quote:

I knew something was up when we did declared war on terror, not the Taliban, and turns out we never really had an exit plan. Plus, sneaking suspicion that Osama bin Laden is dead.

Sneaking suspicion and lack of a body makes for a perfect Goldstein, doesn't it? And I'm right there with ya.

Quote:

I painted a picture when I was in high school, a faded Osama bin Laden in front of the word "Terrorism" in big bold red letters, and called it "Endless War on a Faceless Ideal."

I'm pretty sure no one in my class got it. :/

I'm pretty sure you're right, on both counts.

Quote:

Once again, 1984, Brave New World, and Fahrenheit 451. Really, really should be required reading for any high school student, because they plainly show how war can be used to both distract and motivate the public, as well as economic stimulus. But then, we're not interested in making smart high school students with the ability to think critically.

Are they not required reading anymore? That makes me sad. Those books changed my world, even though I rebelled at the idea of being "made" to read ANY book. It's not that I don't love reading, it's just that I don't like being forced to read something; I'd rather come to it on my own.

That said, I'm damned glad these books WERE forced on me.

Mike

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Friday, August 21, 2009 2:47 AM

RIPWASH

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Quote:
SPOOKI
The woman Frank was chastising is a dumb/ignorant lib not a conservative.

Not that I care, but it does make the story more interesting, so: source?

Well, I don't know for certain how reputable this site is, but this seems to indicate that this woman was a supporter of Lyndon LaRouche - a supposed communist who has tried to associate himself as a Democrat.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/seton-motley/2009/08/12/nbc-cnn-msnbc-all
-assign-communist-larouches-obama-hitler-poster-conse

But I read elsewhere that the Democratic party wants nothing to do with him.

Be that as it may, if this is true, this woman is not a conservative as she is being made out to be.

*********************************************

"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"

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Friday, August 21, 2009 2:55 AM

RIPWASH

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Posted by RIPWash:

Much like if someone like me were to say that a lot of liberals are brain-dead, pot-smoking hippie socialists. Obviously, that is not the case and I don't advocate that myself.

So what I'm saying is please don't make such broad generalizations.

Ripper, I love you, man. But I can assure you I'm not brain-dead.

Quote:

Or at least admit that there are also dumb, ignorant Dems who can't think for themselves either.

Ummmm... I take it you HAVE heard of Nancy Pelosi, yes? Harry Reid? Name ring a bell?

Niki, since you're newish 'round these parts, you should probably know that I pretty much despise Nancy and Harry, and consider them the root of what's WRONG with the Democratic party as a whole. That said, I *am* a pretty dyed-in-the-wool Democrat.

And while RIPWash and I are about 180º apart politically, we generally get along quite well in spite of our differences. Watch him, because he's disarming as hell, and quite respectful 99% of the time.

Mike

Aw shucks, ya big palooka! Right back atcha!

So you only denied one of those . . . you're too clear headed to be on the marijuana, but I'm still on the fence about you being a hippie . . . Socialist? Well . . . .

You and I have agreed on Pelosi and Reid. They're blemishes to be sure.

And as for your last statement. All I can say is that is a pretty big compliment and I appreciate it.

*********************************************

"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"

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Friday, August 21, 2009 3:06 AM

ADMIRALDIGBY

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

.

America is having a lot of trouble accepting change, especially the big change of a Black man in the White House. That's behind it for a lot of them; some are just dumb/ignorant Repubs who are incapable of thinking for themselves, some are ignorant people who mistrust the government whatever it does, etc.

________________________
Together we are more than the sum of our parts

Some people who dislike Obama's policies aren't racists .

In fact most are not racists .

But that's a lie you can't let go of .

So , as you've said elsewhere about lies and the repeating of , keep it up .

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Friday, August 21, 2009 3:45 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

http://freep.com/article/20090820/BUSINESS06/908200420/1319/

You KNOW socialized health care is bad, when they are going to DETROIT to get treatment....

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Friday, August 21, 2009 4:15 AM

Quote:

http://freep.com/article/20090820/BUSINESS06/908200420/1319/

You KNOW socialized health care is bad, when they are going to DETROIT to get treatment....

Is that how you see it?

To me, it looks at least as likely that the hospitals are gladly taking in Canadians - and courting their business - because they know they'll get paid for services rendered - something they absolutely CAN NOT be assured of under the current American system, even if the Detroiters that come through the door are some of the few lucky enough to have "insurance".

Guess it's all in your point of view, eh?

My dad had cancer a couple years ago. His doctor sent him to Scott&White in Killeen for treatment. By your logic, that proves that the for-profit hospitals in both San Angelo and San Antonio are so bad that they have to send people to Killeen for basic treatment.

Is that what you're saying? Do hospitals and doctors not routinely send people to other places with more specialized abilities? If you travel across the country to the Mayo Clinic for treatment, does that prove that no other provider in the nation is worth having around or keeping open?

If I were the Canadian government, and there was a person under my care who would benefit from services that are available in Detroit that may not be readily available in Windsor, why wouldn't I send the patient there? You're saying I should just tell them to wait, and hopefully not die, while I build a specialized medical center to focus on their particular ailment?

Mike

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Friday, August 21, 2009 4:27 AM

Ha! Reading the responses to the article, I came across this:

Quote:
Here is the latest report of obesity and diabetes:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/122405/Obesity-Diabetes-Across-States-Clear
-Relationship.aspx

Hmm...9 out 10 of the highest obesity states are red states. 8 out of 10 least obesity states are blue states. One could make the leap that majority of obese people are conservatives.

So being a conservative is now correlated to unhealthiness! That's awesome!

It's also funny that - I believe it was Rue who linked the study some time back - "red" states get far more federal money paid to them than they take in in taxes, while "blue" states pay far more to the federal government than they get back.

So not only is conservatism unhealthy - it's also SOCIALIST! You're redistributing our wealth! You're spreading the liberals' wealth to cover conservatives' own poor lifestyle choices!

Mike

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Friday, August 21, 2009 4:46 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Wulf

I KNOW you don't read my posts, you only go by what you assume. But, do you even read ---- AT ALL ?

Your OWN article:

""I go to the hospital in Windsor and two hours later, I'm done having angioplasty in Detroit," he said. His $38,000 bill was covered by the Ontario health ministry."

To me, that sure looks like a system that is making sure everyone gets the care they need.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, August 21, 2009 4:46 AM

Quote:

Some people who dislike Obama's policies aren't racists .

In fact most are not racists .

I'm sure some of them really aren't racists. But the people they let do their talking for them sure come across that way, and those "non-racists" aren't doing a whole helluva lot to distance themselves from them, are they?

How many times have I heard one Republican senator or representative after another asked whether Obama is an American, and they mumble and dissemble, and their answers are something along the lines of, "Well, AS FAR AS *I* KNOW..." which is a way of pandering to the basest racism of their constituents, who are utterly convinced that a black man with a name like "Obama" can't POSSIBLY be a "real" American. I mean, hey, AS FAR AS *I* KNOW, you're not really a child molester, no matter what others may say.

Now, what's the association your mind makes when you hear something like that? If you're like most people, you're probably pissed because you think I just called you a child molester. I didn't - I said that as far as I know, you're NOT. It's a way of saying it without actually saying it, and it's dirty pool.

You know how you combat racism and prove you aren't a racist? By denouncing it, in no uncertain terms. By confronting it, by getting in people's faces and asking them "Why do you think that?" "Why are black people automatically assumed to be inferior by you?" You DON'T combat racism by listening to someone like Wulf say "Black people just can't give gifts,", and then react to that kind of crap by laughing it off and going, "Heh - good one."

You want me to believe that conservatives aren't racist? Stop hanging out with racists; stop supporting them, stop defending them, and get the hell away from them. Tell them they aren't helping you, and that you don't want their support for your cause, because they hurt more than they could ever possibly help, and the besmirch you and other non-racists and blur the issue.

You don't fight racism by enabling it or encouraging it. You fight it by confronting it and fighting against it. You have a right to believe that some people are just automatically inferior to others for no other reason than the color of their skin, and I have an absolute right to mock you incessantly if you believe that.

Ain't America grand?

Mike

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Friday, August 21, 2009 4:57 AM

Indeed.

Funny thing, despite the IMHO overblown reputations of Univ of MD Shock Trauma, Johns Hopkins and the "big name" places - you know where hands down the BEST ortho surgeon I've ever had the fortune to meet works out of?

Harbor Hospital, the podunk little slapdash outfit on the northern border of AA county and Baltimore city, on the edge of the ghetto collectively known as the forgotten lands (Brooklyn/Curtis Bay) - and the hospital itself is nowhere you'd wanna spend an hour, much less recovery if you can help it...

But the guy is hands down awesome, if he wanted to the crazy old coot could probably build his own frankensteins monster - and he gets along REAL well with me and my lunatic ideas about bed rest and physical therapy, to the point of helping rig up a sling between my handlebars so I could prop the much abused leg in between em and still ride my trike - and when it become undeniable it was beyond saving, he managed to work around the tremendous damage and take it off below the knee, which every other doc said was impossible.

Course, thankfully he didn't have much respect for them anyways, cause apparently if one doctor works on you, even if he dumps you, any doctor that works on the same condition after that can get in some kinda legal hassle with him over it, and that was another stumbling block to treatment which he smashed flat by simply not giving a shit what they thought about it.

Anyhows, when it comes to medical care and procedures, sometimes the guys REALLY in the know work out of some damn strange places, so I wouldn't put too much credence into the story, especially as it's run by one of two papers here with a downright pyschotic level of bias.

The Freep and DetNews have about the credibility of the Weekly World News, or PirateNews when it comes to the crunch, because they get their marching orders from Corporate America and the GOP, in that order, facts notwithstanding.

I'd no more take their unsupported word for something than I would a Fox News "expose" on how MSG is good for you.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Friday, August 21, 2009 4:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Wulf

I KNOW you don't read my posts, you only go by what you assume. But, do you even read ---- AT ALL ?

Your OWN article:

""I go to the hospital in Windsor and two hours later, I'm done having angioplasty in Detroit," he said. His $38,000 bill was covered by the Ontario health ministry."

To me, that sure looks like a system that is making sure everyone gets the care they need.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

Yup, being that that hospital is most likely a for-profit enterprise, it only makes sense that they'd court patients they KNEW they were going to get paid for treating. They have to treat people who show up in the emergency room, so the poor and uninsured will go that route.

The insured are a real problem for hospitals - hospitals want to get paid for their services, and insurance companies are for-profit enterprises, too, and have entire departments aimed at denying payments and claims - they'll try to hit you up for it, as the premium-paying patient, but they'll also try to hit up the hospital to drop the price or negotiate it down. So while your treatment might cost $25,000.00, the insurance company may try to bill you for as much of that as they can, AND they may try to negotiate with the hospital to pay less than that amount - but they won't tell either of you that they're doing that. So say they hit you for $20,000 of that bill, and agree to pay the hospital only $10,000 for the treatment. Of the $25,000 the hospital told YOU it would cost, the insurance company took $20k from you and gave $10k to the hospital, and pocketed an extra $10k *in addition to your premiums that you've been paying all this time*!

As an added bonus, you'll probably also be dropped by that insurance company, and your illness will now be a "pre-existing condition" that no insurance company will cover for the next few years...

Awesome system, right? Why would anybody want to do it any other way?

Mike

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Friday, August 21, 2009 5:21 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"They have to treat people who show up in the emergency room, so the poor and uninsured will go that route."

Side note:

If you come under your own steam - they cannot turn you away. (Of course you may WAIT 12 hours to be seen for your sore throat.)

If you come by ambulance they CAN turn you away. B/c you are being stabilized they can claim to not be neglecting you. People have gone round and round and round getting bounced from one ER to another - and insurance status is one of the things they DID look at while they decided who got stuck with the hot potato. Which could be you. Some people spent 8 hours en-route --- when the nearest ER was 10 minutes away. Some people have died as a result.

Generating that absurdity - THAT'S how fucked-up our for-profit medical system is.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, August 21, 2009 5:51 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

This goes waaaay back, but man, you guys MOVE, and I've been gone since yesterday.

Mike:

Quote:
Not all who mistrust the government are ignorant, Niki. I don't trust the government, but I trust for-profit healthcare even less. They've already proven that they're completely willing to throw people to the wolves completely in the interests of upping their profits. Why would I ever believe they'll STOP doing that or do it for less profit?

So while I don't trust the government, I have a bit more trust that they're not going to sell me off to the best bidder.

You got me wrong. I certainly never said all who mistrust the government are ignorant, nor would I. I agree with everything you said; I suppose what I was trying to say was those are THE ignorant people who mistrust the government fanatically, to the point where they'll do things others who mistrust the government wouldn't...perhaps it's a matter of personal responsiblity and mentality, or something, but those preyed upon to become pawns in this gou se with town halls, etc., are ignorant and not willing to be otherwise, so they are ripe to be used as pawns against the government.

I mistrust the government a lot--the fact that I mistrust big corporations even more is relative; big business left to its own devices will happily screw humans for profit (another thread went into this so well I didn't even respond, about farming and such). Government is influenced too much these days by same, but there are those who will at least TRY to limit their influence. It's relative.

Just wanted to clarify that; mostly I don't NEED to post, as the points I would make are made for me...takes the fun out of venting and putting forth my ideas, but equally THRILLS me to see reasoned arguments put out there reasonably, on both sides, and actual DEBATES taking place. Again: relative!

Quote:
You shouldn't be kicked in the ass for that. You should embrace it. I knew Bush was lying the second he said we were going to wage war on "terror", because you can't declare war on an emotion. If he had said we were going to bomb the living fuck out of Afghanistan, or the Taliban, or just Al Qaeda, in direct retaliation for 9/11, I'd have said, "Go get 'em!" In fact, I did say that. But he decided he wanted to kill the idea of terrorism, and I think rather than kill the idea, he propagated it and made it more popular. Bush became the best recruiting tool Al Qaeda has ever had, and then Iraq only added to that.

Us, too. "Bomb Afghanistan back to the stone ages" upset me, as Afghanistan was barely OUT of the stone age as it was, but going after Al Qeda and the Taliban was obviously necessary.

I would say that quite possibly besides being the best recruiting tool (which wasn't their aim), accumulating and consolidating POWER was behind all the scare tactics and the war on Iraq as much as anything for that administration. Worked good, too. Got people who don't think deeply to come on board, people who didn't trust them but their fear was greater, people who knew bucking them would be bad for them. Cheney knew what he was doing (and yes, I do lay it at HIS feet for the most part).

________________________
Together we are more than the sum of our parts

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Friday, August 21, 2009 5:54 AM

HKCAVALIER

Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
Well, I don't know for certain how reputable this site is, but this seems to indicate that this woman was a supporter of Lyndon LaRouche - a supposed communist who has tried to associate himself as a Democrat.

If she supports LaRouche, then Frank's question as to planet of residence was doubly apt. As was his assertion that trying to have a conversation with her would be something less than productive. Those people are out of their fricken gourds. Just read ANY of their literature.

And, no freakin' way do these folks side with the Democrats--they think the whole system is controlled by Nazis and Obama is a plant who will fail disasterously in order to destroy people's faith in government so the Nazis can further their agenda. It's kinda funny because every time Obama succeeds at anything, they have to change their story. First he was supposed to divide the Dem vote, then we was supposed to pave the way for Hillary, then he was supposed to lose to McCain/Palin, then he was supposed to...you get the idea.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Friday, August 21, 2009 7:26 AM

Quote:
First he was supposed to divide the Dem vote, then we was supposed to pave the way for Hillary, then he was supposed to lose to McCain/Palin, then he was supposed to...

...show us his birth certificate?

Of course, after that, it would just be something else, wouldn't it?

Mike

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Friday, August 21, 2009 7:28 AM