Damn Hippies by Wulfenstar

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chez-pazienza/what-a-long-strange-thoro_
b_273774.html

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 4:08 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Jeez, what a whiner.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 4:23 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Yeah, hes a whiner... but he learned from the best...

"Never in the history of this country has there been a generation that's cast a longer shadow without really having done anything to earn it than the children of the 60s -- specifically the so-called Woodstock Generation. For the most part, they're thoroughly undeserving of the immortality they've pretentiously bequeathed to themselves."

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 6:12 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Okay, I guess an aging "hippie" has to speak up in defense. I've never considered us any of those ranting-over-personalized titles, and nobody I know of that time does, either. For the most part we considered ourselves very lucky to have lived through those years, and a generation that tried to accomplish a bunch of things, succeeded at some, failed miserably at others.

Wasn't at Woodstock. At the time, while it was considered something amazing that happened, it was equally remembered as being a horrible mess, muddy, filled with drugs, rain and misery. It's been polished up since then, but that wasn't what it WAS.

Selective memory is a great thing, but I don't have it and nobody I know my age has it. There were wonderful things that happened, yes, and you guys have probably never experienced the REAL sense of adolescent community we did, but free love wasn't such a great concept and we're all paying the price for some of it's less-savory aspects.

The one thing I wonder when I hear people grousing about the hippie generation is, "Yeah, okay, so what have YOU done? Personally, I mean?" Today's children--THIS generation, I can't speak for others--seems to me nihilistic, what he said about "and just not give a shit about anything". That's nothing but a ruddy excuse.

Yeah, there were weird, painted idiots at marches--there are everywhere people gather...look at football games. But the vast majority of us were perfectly normal people marching SERIOUSLY for things we believed in. And we did some good. No, we didn't stop Vietnam, but we made our voices HEARD--most of the time without organizations with scads of money telling us to go out and shout people down with lies we swallowed hook, line and sinker. Sure, some of that happened, it does in every society, but you see it en mass now; you didn't then. We set the stage for the end of the war, and we had one small part in bringing it down.

The communal house I lived in, every guy had a draft card. We sat around the TV in terror as the numbers were pulled. One guy went to Canada. The rest served--some didn't come back--and we all marched against the war, just as we and many of the young people today are doing against Iraq, because it was WRONG!

We took women out of the kitchen. Whether that's good or not is for history to decide, and certainly there are negative aspects of it. But my mother was a 50's mother, and I can't imagine a single one of you wanting to be one of THOSE. We challenged the glass ceiling, the first generation ever to do so. We fought for civil rights--and sowed the seeds that achieved it.

If anyone's interested, what bankrupted our country was YOUNG men mostly, greedy sons-of-bitches who cared nothing for anyone but themselves. They weren't hippies, and their parents for the most part weren't either. We weren't the entire society, you know; we were a small part of it that got hyped--we fought against a much larger culture which continued unabated after us. Don't blame us for everything, that's the easy out.

We fought against the killing of whales, couldn't eat tuna for years and years until they started coming up with dolphin-free nets...I love tuna, I remember that. We warned about the dangers of global warming, of extinction of species, of overpopulation. We took America out of it's "innosence", yet we held our policians responsible; we wrote letters, demonstrated, called our congressmen, cared to EDUCATE ourselves on the issues. Look around you; how many do that now?

My group didn't consider ourselves "hippies", by the way. Hippies were dirty, did drugs and hung around the Haight. Yeah, we did drugs, but more often LSD, mescaline, psylocybin, hashish and marijuana, and disdained those who got into the "hard stuff" and gave away their lives. We called ourselves "heads"--a term lost in history now. We shared some values with hippies and, yes, went to the concerts at the Fillmore, but we also disussed issues, sat up all night doing so, and were ACTIVE.

We challenged authority, challenged it on its merits, got beaten up for doing so in droves. We marched for People's Park, demonstrated against the Democratic Convention, and got beat up for both. We believed in something.

We walked away from organized religion in droves, seeing it for what it was; we TRIED to create communes where people worked together--many, by the way, still survive out here. We lived in communal houses, we didn't keep living with mom and dad until we were in our thirties.

Frat boys still got drunk; women still stayed in the kitchen, society at large called us all sorts of names, and police beat us up with impunity. But we TRIED. We CARED. We gave a freaking damn, and many of us still remember how to.

We gave you computers, and heads of corporations like Apple and Microsoft--who, whatever else they are, give BACK and are some of the best companies to work for, for their employees, today. I played the predecessor to "pong" on a huge computer on the hill above Stanford in the middle of the night.

Sure, millions copped out and are now part of the establishment. Millions always WERE--we weren't the majority, far from it, so to blame everything on us is whining, pure and simple. How about your generation? What exactly have you achieved? What have you achieved that we didn't START?

Tell me THAT before you grind down a generation that tried to change things. It doesn't cost anything to sit on your cans and dismiss those of a generation before who at least got out there and tried. I'll tell you one thing; a lot of those parents who lauded the years of the flower children WEREN'T--they were among the rest of society that thought we were degenerate crazies back then, now it's "in" to think they were part of it.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 7:47 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chez-pazienza/what-a-long-strange-thoro_
b_273774.html

What is the entirety of your contribution to the world, Wulfie? What have YOU done that actually made a difference, that accomplished anything?

Mike

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 7:57 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

No.

While I agree that some did some good things... most were as described.

Hippies pushed for the end of the Vietnam war, that much is true. But they also spit on those who came back, and called them (among other things) "baby-killers".

Hippies did push for civil rights. But ended up creating ghettos, and tying an entire culture down to ignorance, and self destruction.

Hippies did get women out of the kitchen. Now? We have soccer-moms, and women who pay to have their children raised by other people. Not to mention inflation.

Hippies didnt like the killing of whales or dolphins. Fought against that. But now? They drive Priuses and stand in judgment of those who dont. (See South Park)

Yeah, us Gen-Xers are self-absorbed and nihilistic. But who and what taught us to be that way?

ETA: Not to mention, hippies are the most adamant for government control.

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 8:02 AM

Quote:
The communal house I lived in, every guy had a draft card. We sat around the TV in terror as the numbers were pulled. One guy went to Canada. The rest served--some didn't come back--and we all marched against the war, just as we and many of the young people today are doing against Iraq, because it was WRONG!

Just try to wrap your head around that concept, Wulfie. Think about you and your friends sitting around, holding up your "lottery" numbers and waiting for them to be called, but instead of winning millions, you "win" the right to be the next to go and die for your country's foreign policy failures.

I know you like to get a hard-on sitting around and polishing your gun, dreaming of the day you get to kill someone, preferably someone blacker than you, but try to imagine the feeling of not even being in control of whether or not that happens.

I doubt you have the mental ability to make that leap, but you're quick to put down those who lived through it. And there's nobody on this site who complains more about the way things are, yet does less to change them.

Mike

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 8:06 AM

Hey-- I don't simply bitch and whine, I RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE! I spit and foam and snarl! Much wailing! Much gnashing of teeth!

Also, I (imagine I) subtly degrade anyone unlike me, and hold them secretly responsible for all my failures, shortcomings, cruelties...

Further, I have guns! Lots of 'em! Because at any moment "they" are gonna come litter in my yard. I sit in the darkened living room, twitching the heavy curtains--you think you're gonna rape MY yard gnome, you slightly different person!? Why, I--

Whoa...

Come on, Topher, that shit aint funny, quit putting that asshole in my head!

--WhoDied

_______________________

Yeah, we're mostly just giving each
other significant glances and
laughing incessantly.

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 8:10 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Awww...

I never said the draft was right, you douche-bag. It goes against everything this country (should) stand for.

I never said Vietnam, Korea, or Iraq were right EITHER.

What I DID say, was that for all the "marches", all the protests.... what REALLY changed things was when the people decided they had had ENOUGH.

Jebus, you would love to put me in a little box wouldn't you? It makes your life so much more bearable.

"THEM BAD! ME GOOD!"

Grow up.

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 8:11 AM

They also gave you the first and badly needed swift kick in the balls to the alphabet goons, from exposing cointelpro, to the weathermens well intentioned and badly handled* retaliation, to the crown jewels and the church committee.

Like the White Rose, the fact that they ultimately failed doesn't make their efforts any less laudable, despite being pretty halfass and filled with typical human selfishness.

But you need to re-examine the idea of hippies which has been sold to you by people you KNOW lied to you, Wulf - sure, you got whiny little slacker types, but there's quite a few first and second generation hippies within Anarchism, many of whom were the first to point out the harmful effects of a lot of food additives, years and YEARS before any admission of such from "official" sources - they're NOT stupid.

And contrary to popular belief, they're not the slackers folk take them for neither, society wants them viewed as "useless" cause the work they do doesn't enrich the elite powerbrokers, a lie you've fully bought into despite knowing better, but fact is a lot of them communes are still in operation and run quite well, cause their way of things is You don't work, you don't eat. which is pretty fair given that much of the work is food production, yes ?

I wouldn't take the lot of em for pacifists either, cause while most of em are, one particular commune in TX took the fund they'd been putting aside for a new tractor and bought a damn T-72 which used to belong to tankride, complete with all the proper paperwork and tax stamps (I should know, having been the one to handle that)(1) in response to the mess going down at El Dorado with the FLDS.

And yanno, it makes a pretty good tractor, since they've mounted the attachments off the old one to use the stuff they already had, and they're running it on SVO conversion(2).

Kinda funny to see a bunch of hippies doing land clearing with that horror and a peace sign flag flying from the radio antenna though.

Various other religious fronts also have functioning communities, Twelve Tribes, for example.

-Frem

(1)The fact that it NEEDED those tax stamps ought to give one a good idea of why they bought it.
(2) Straight veggie oil, which they produce themselves.
http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 8:14 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

"Hippies" (since you want to use that word) are NOT for government control! Quite the opposite!

I said that getting women out of the kitchen had good and bad points. Ask women if they would rather be still stuck in the kitchen before you make judgments.

WE didn't spit on those who came back from Vietnam...there are extremes in every culture, don't blame the entire section of that culture for society's actions. I got news for you, so did millions of non-hippies.

As to civil rights, it doesn't change overnight. Society doesn't take change easily or quickly, there are phases to go through. By your reasoning, everything we few did should have solved the problem immediately and completely, or we're trash, eh?

Ain't hippies who stand in judgment of those who don't drive Priuses. Those as can afford them and care about the planet drive them...the rest of us recycle, inflate our tires, turn off the lights and unplug our electronic devices at night, combine our errands to minimize gas usage, work in animal rehab, try to educate others, vote for what we can that helps, and try to minimize our footprints, while realizing you don't change the world in a day and it'll probably go the way it's going despite us. Some of us ended up in the Peace Corps. I've never seen or heard a single person, aging hippie or otherwise, "look down on" someone driving a Prius.

Who taught you to be nihilistic and self-absorbed? HAH! Don't push that off on a small part of an entire society, and don't make excuses. OUR parents taught us to accept government, white-only buses, religion, women in the kitchen, going to war and consumerism. We went the other way. What's your excuse?

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 8:14 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Hey, Im from the North... so most of the Hippies here are the rich offspring of those they claim to rage against... in other words... boogie, wannabes.

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 8:19 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

That explains your attitude on the matter. Believe it or not, it's not universal; where I live, there are many, many aging hippies (especially down in Santa Cruz area and North of us) who live quietly.

How do you KNOW those rich people are offspring of hippies? Have you asked them? Or are they just of a certain age? Bear in mind, we were a small segment of society, and that selective memory I mentioned...an awful lot of people "remember" themselves as hippies who weren't, and the vast majority WEREN'T, the age was just remembered as the time of the flower children because we made an impact and because it's romanticized.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 8:24 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Im not saying that the so-called ideals of hippies wern't grand....

Equality for everyone.

Peace.

Fight the powers that be.

Hell, I can defiantly follow those edicts...

Except...

When equality actually means slavery. And peace is bought at the price of pride. Or fighting the powers that be, but then going home to you mansion...

It all reeks of elitism, and being spoiled.

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 8:34 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

And I repeat: Do you KNOW that all those you spoke of are aging hippies?? I find more pride in peace than in war, sorry, especially wars we fight for the wrong or no reason.

Equality equals slavery? Whaaaa??? Where you got that one, I'll never figure. So we haven't achieved perfect equality yet, for women or others; that's the same as SLAVERY??? Wow.

I give up. I've said my piece, I'm gonna unplg my computer, go walk the dogs (which I have to drive to do because of leash laws, and which I combine with other things, and go to the nearest place to do). Then take my motorcycle to go to the market, hit the hardware store, pick up dog food and come home--I can get a LOT on my motorcycle

. Probably plug in the TV and work on my plants the rest of the day, after cleaning the rabbit cages (yuck). Didn't go anywhere yesterday, won't go anywhere tomorrow except to walk the dogs. Hubby took HIS motorcycle to work (as opposed to bicycling to the ferry, which he does some other days). He doesn't drive his car except to run errands on the weekend, many of which he does by bicycle.

But we're spoiled hippies. How's about you?

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 8:55 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Hey, great.

Individuals can be awesome, groups suck. Same as always.

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 10:26 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Frat boys still got drunk; women still stayed in the kitchen, society at large called us all sorts of names, and police beat us up with impunity. But we TRIED. We CARED. We gave a freaking damn, and many of us still remember how to.

Damn straight. I marched. Some of my friends did... quite a bit more. We wanted peace and justice, a community that cared. A cleaner environment. A better world.

I don't see that passion much any more. All anybody seems to want is the latest iPhone. It's an embrassment to care... today, you gotta be amusing, quick with the put-down. Able to find the best price for any object. Rap culture writ large.

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 10:41 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"Damn straight. I marched. Some of my friends did... quite a bit more. We wanted peace and justice, a community that cared. A cleaner environment. A better world."

A better world....

Where have I heard that before?

Oh yeah... Serenity.

"The Operative: It's not my place to ask. I believe in something greater than myself. A better world. A world without sin."

"These are just a few of the images we've recorded. And you can see, it wasn't what we thought. There's been no war here and no terraforming event. The environment is stable. It's the Pax. The G-23 Paxilon Hydrochlorate that we added to the air processors. It was supposed to calm the population, weed out aggression. Well, it works. The people here stopped fighting. And then they stopped everything else. They stopped going to work, they stopped breeding, talking, eating. There's 30 million people here, and they all just let themselves die."

and heres my answer.

[B}Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: Y'all Got On This Boat For Different Reasons, But Y'all Come To The Same Place. So Now I'm Asking More Of You Than I Have Before. Maybe All. Sure As I Know Anything, I Know This - They Will Try Again. Maybe On Another World, Maybe On This Very Ground Swept Clean. A Year From Now, Ten? They'll Swing Back To The Belief That They Can Make People... Better. And I Do Not Hold To That. So No More Runnin'. I Aim To Misbehave.

Admit it Sig, THIS is what you want.

Where the rest of us, these few hold outs, have to just lay down and die so you can have your so called "better world"?

Well, fuck that.

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 10:47 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Never, Sig, not in this life or the next.

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 11:11 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Wulf, you insist on misunderstanding me. A better world meant LESS authority, not more. I didn't see any hippies fighting to send people to war, or trying to put people in jail, or fostering prejudice. I saw people trying to free themselves and their friends. Something that YOU claim to want to do. With a gun, if necessary, FORCING people to live in YOUR view of "a better world". So WTF makes you think you're better? WTF makes you think you're not Alliance?

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 11:22 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

You are mistaken.

Threat of arms in my last resort.

But, should it come to that... well..

lol

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 11:31 AM

DREAMTROVE

Okay, it's official, Frem and Niki have to face off in a typing competition :) (Start your clocks...)

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 11:43 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

My contribution to the world is right around $4.50 a pack right now.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned."

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 11:55 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
You are mistaken.

As are you. Pull your head out of your ^ss once in a while.

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 12:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
You are mistaken.

Threat of arms in my last resort.

But, should it come to that... well..

lol

This seems disingenuous. the 'lol' at the end suggests that you rather hope it WILL come to that.

I hope I'm wrong about this, but...

--WhoDied

_______________________

Yeah, we're mostly just giving each
other significant glances and
laughing incessantly.

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 12:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
It's an embrassment to care... today, you gotta be amusing, quick with the put-down.

I'm suddenly abashed to realize that that was MY first response, has been my first (often only) response. How tacky. Caring is risky though, and painful. I've hidden from it for many years, but how has that helped even me? I believe it's time to roll the stone away, as it were, and go forth from my cave.

Only, with SO MANY fundamental ills plaguing society, where do I start?

--WhoDied

_______________________

Well, I guess I kinda worked it out. If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. 'cause that's all there is. What we do, now, today. - I fought for so long. For redemption, for a reward, finally just to beat the other guy, but... I never got it.

And now you do?

Not all of it. All I wanna do is help. I wanna help because I don't think people should suffer, as they do. Because, if there is no bigger meaning, then the smallest act of kindness is the greatest thing in the world.

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 1:32 PM

TRAVELER

I was too young to be considered that generation. I had high school to finish and then after graduation, in 1970, the selective service had me take a physical examination. I passed with flying colors and got my draft number. A low number. I shit my pants.

I suspect I knew as much about Vietnam as the next man, who probably was sweating over the draft as much as myself. I remember seeing Buddist Priests setting themselves on fire in protest on the city streets in Vietnam. One particular piece that stands out, in my mind, is a reporter talking to a soldier who was firing his M16 on full auto and then bending down to slam another clip in his rifle and then emptying that clip as fast as he could, to create, what I believe is called suppressive fire. This was during the 68 Tet Offensive. The reporter asked him what his thoughts were. I am sure the soldier had more on his mind at the moment then the whys of what he was doing. But he answered,"This is bullshit".

After hearing that, I started paying more attention to the goings on over there and soon understood our leaders did not have a clue. I ended up getting a draft deferment and an education.

I know about the people spitting on our soldiers when they returned from Vietnam. If this was the majority, the airports would have been packed with tens of thousands of demonstrators. These people were the minority and did not represent the vast numbers who were protesting against the war. One of my closest friends and my brother in law served in Vietnam and I would never consider either of them baby killers. They did what they felt was right. We were all young and made coices with very little knowledge to go on.

But it was not only the Vietnam War I witnessed the people of that age protest. Reverend King and many who followed his ideas of peaceful demonstrations were getting the attention of the media. If you think these marches for civil rights were only done by blacks, then I suggest you review the news reels and you will see white faces in those marches. There is one particular Jim Crow Law, where blacks are to move to the back of the bus when white people are riding on it at the same time. So to make the point of people sitting where they pleased, they needed white people to volunteer to sit in the back of a bus while the black people sat in the front. If they could not have gotten white people to volunteer, then the demonstration could not have taken place. It took both black and white people working together to get the United States to see the injustice in the Jim Crow Laws. If you study civil rights you will find several generations have been fighting this battle. Not just those in the sixties.

Now, I will repeat myself. I was young. I graduated in 1970 and my only concern was my ass. I did not want it shot off in a war that nobody could tell with any logic why we were fighting in it. I got my draft deferment and worked hard in school so I would have a job afterwards. That was my concern. I did not march or write letters to my congressman. I just wanted to stay clear of that damn Vietnam War.

I never met a person who burned their draft card or took off for Canada. Just like myself, men I new tried to get a draft deferment by attending school and applying themselves there. I was not involved in any marches or riots. Of those I know, who did serve, did our country proud. They did their service in Vietnam and came back to start a life for themselves. I got the nerve to ask a veteran of the Marine Corp, who was attending my school on the GI Bill, what it was like over there. He said, "You don't want to go." I took his word for it.
I liked the veterans in our school. They used to tease me. Said I would make a good tunnel rat. They give a forty-five auto and a grenade and send you in a enemy tunnel to root out the V.C. I am only 5'-6" tall and was small enough to squeeze in those caves the Viet Cong liked to hide in. They would tell me how long my life expectancy would be.

It has been forty years now and those who served, either in the trenches of Vietnam or the marches on collage campuses live next to each other and share the same things in life. There is no defining the youth of the sixties, except we did what all youth do, and that is make decisions with the eighteen years of experience were given. After talking to those who went through the Depression, World War II, and the Korean War, I have discovered they were no different then myself. My father came home from World War II to start a career, a family, and to live in peace. I see no difference in our generations. If people like to keep bringing up the sixties and separating our generations with some compass, I just want to know what makes it so different from all the others? Not a big difference. Of course more people were supportive of our fighting World War II. Pearl Harbor had a major influence on that. Until that day most people in the United States did not want us involved with those conflicts in Europe or Asia. In World War II they were called GI's and in Vietnam they were called Grunts and they both wanted to get back alive and healthy and not get their ass shot off.
So, for a moment, remember that those Grunts who gave their all during the Vietnam War are also from the sixties. We are as diverse and similar between ourselves as any generation before or after. And a few were protesting the war before they enter the recruiting station. And many returned to protest the war after they got back.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 2:16 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Signym...you my age? I turn 61 next month...old geezer, that's me!

Quote:
Where the rest of us, these few hold outs, have to just lay down and die so you can have your so called "better world"?

That would be hysterical, if it weren't so pathetic. "We wanted peace and justice, a community that cared." Yeah, nuke 'em, nuke 'em one and all for wanting THAT kind of crap!

Quote:
Okay, it's official, Frem and Niki have to face off in a typing competition :) (Start your clocks...)

Hey, I type 125wpm last time I was timed, and typing is like talking to me...wanna place some bets?

Yeah, Who, I got the same impression as you...and

Quote:
Caring is risky though, and painful.

you forgot "frustrating as hell". Because we may save ANWAR today, but they can take it away tomorrow...and when they kill the last whale, we can't get one back. It's a constant, lifetime battle and we never truly "win". We can build a Constitution, but then a Bush can come along...you get the idea.

But I believe

Quote:
If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. 'cause that's all there is.

I want to leave knowing I TRIED.

Traveler: Well said. And very right on, if you'll pardon the dated expression. And as a whole, I agree completely:

Quote:
There is no defining the youth of the sixties, except we did what all youth do, and that is make decisions with the eighteen years of experience were given.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 2:41 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Only, with SO MANY fundamental ills plaguing society, where do I start?

With a heartfelt virtual hug from me.

Quote:
Because, if there is no bigger meaning, then the smallest act of kindness is the greatest thing in the world.

wow.

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 3:15 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yeah, have a hug from me too. It was a tossup between that quote and the one I chose, Sig...both are "wow".

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 5:45 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Niki2- To answer your question, I'm just a little behind you in age! (56) Oh, and BTW, I laughed over this until I nearly peed.It was either that or cry.

Quote:
That would be hysterical, if it weren't so pathetic. "We wanted peace and justice, a community that cared." Yeah, nuke 'em, nuke 'em one and all for wanting THAT kind of crap!

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 5:50 PM

Oh I care, I wouldn't dive headfirst down a rabbithole full of nightmares if I didn't - but the very nastiness that makes me not very nice is also my armor against things that would emotionally and psychologically crush a person who was any kinda decent.

The words Iron-Handed Mercy are not a contradiction when coming from me.

-F

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Thursday, September 3, 2009 11:49 AM

I thank you for that, and Signym as well. I intend to--for want of a better term--find myself a cause. As stated, I'm not exactly sure WHAT cause yet, but 'tis the journey, eh?

Also, I should attribute the quote at the bottom of my previous post, as it's a snippet of dialog between Angel and Kate from Angel 2.16. Tim Minear deserves the credit there.

I like to attach relevant Whedonverse quotations to whatever topic, it's a thing. (Though I keep a default when it's all a Wash!)

--WhoDied

_______________________

Yeah, we're mostly just giving each other significant glances and laughing incessantly.

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Thursday, September 3, 2009 12:08 PM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

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Thursday, September 3, 2009 12:50 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Poor Woofie.... alone in the doghouse. Come out, little pup. We won't bite.

[/snark]

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Thursday, September 3, 2009 1:05 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Poor Woofie.... alone in the dohouse. Come out, little pup. We won't bite.

[/snark]

Seriously, Wulf needs a mission. Idle hands and all.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com Now available on your iPhone

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Thursday, September 3, 2009 1:57 PM

DREAMTROVE

Wulf

post a video once, not to every thread.

Thanks.

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Thursday, September 3, 2009 2:25 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

I don't venture into RWED very often. I find it useless to discuss politics because everyone who's an adult has pretty much made up their mind about their opinions and what someone else says on a message board is not likely to influence them, except to get them mad enough to respond. But what I might say in the heat of the moment won't mean anything to the person I'm addressing, so why bother?

I have read enough of the threads to know that I am on the opposite end of the political spectrum from Wulfenstar. What he has posted on this subject is ridiculous. No one group of people represent the majority of those who came of age in the 60s. I may have been called a hippie by some from time to time, but I wasn't. I wore my hair long at one time, and yeah, I did do some drugs, but nothing heavy and I never dropped out. I do think I was more socially conscious than a lot of people I knew, although less so than others.

I'm very close in age to Traveler, SignyM and Niki. I'll be 59 later this month. Graduated high school in '68, and had a very low draft lottery number (18). I'm a conscientious objector, so was my father, older brother, along with some uncles and cousins (but not all of the family). I was given a 1A-O classification by Selective Service, eligible for the draft but for a non-combat position. I was drafted and was sworn in to the Army on November 17, 1971, with basic training and Advanced Medical Training at Ft. Sam Houston, San Antonio, Texas. Luckily, I did not have to go to Nam.

I know men who went to Canada or somehow evaded the draft. I also know men who served in Vietnam, a couple of them came home in a box. I respect what each of them did, since they were following their own conscience the same as me. We were all just doing the best we could under the circumstances. I would never spit on a serviceman, then or now, but I'm sure it happened. I do know that there were quite a few people who would have liked to spit on the war protesters. I'm sure you've heard the slogan "America, Love it or Leave It!" The only problem with that is they couldn't understand that the protesters loved America just as much and were trying to save it from the insanity of an unjust war.

I did march in protests, before, during and after my military service, and I'm proud of that fact. I've also tried my best to support other "liberal" causes, civil rights, women's rights, environmental issues, etc. I don't expect anyone to praise me for those actions, it's what anyone should be willing to do for their community and country. Anyone who says we wasted those efforts obviously would rather live the the "good old days" of segregation and suppression when the citizenry was supposed to shut up and do as they were told. Wulfenstar may want to live that kind of life again, but it's not for me.

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Thursday, September 3, 2009 3:43 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Just as it's impossible to characterize the 60's generation by one epithet, it's not possible to castigate this one. But in my generation, when we saw Hearts and Minds people sobbed in sorrow and anger. They got behind "the Fox" and civil rights. I really don't KNOW if you would get that same reaction from many people anymore. Maybe media violence has just desensitized people ... I hope I'm wrong.

Oh yeah, and BTW- For a newbie, you hit the nail right on the head. Wulf really does want to go back to the days of segregation and subservient women.

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Thursday, September 3, 2009 4:03 PM

Just coming in from a day trip out of town for a funeral, so I'm still catching up here....

Quote:

Jebus, you would love to put me in a little box wouldn't you? It makes your life so much more bearable.

"THEM BAD! ME GOOD!"

That's actually funny, Wulfie, coming from you. You, who are SOOOOO eager to put everyone else into little boxes, to categorize and demonize, so you can find a reason to hate "them", whoever "they" happen to be today. One day, blacks; the next day, the poor; the next, the "hippies".

Is that how you make your life more bearable?

Mike

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Thursday, September 3, 2009 4:09 PM

Quote:

WE didn't spit on those who came back from Vietnam...there are extremes in every culture, don't blame the entire section of that culture for society's actions. I got news for you, so did millions of non-hippies.

Yeah, Wulf - I'm another of those who didn't spit on the troops returning from 'Nam, since my dad was one of 'em and all...

Thing is, his COUNTRY and his GOVERNMENT did indeed spit on those same troops, often and vigorously, and for years and years before it was uncovered and admitted to. And they're still doing it. The only people in this country who truly hate the troops are the ones who keep sending them to die needless deaths for what amounts to nothing more than empire-sized dick-wagging.

Mike

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Thursday, September 3, 2009 4:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
No.

While I agree that some did some good things... most were as described.

Hippies pushed for the end of the Vietnam war, that much is true. But they also spit on those who came back, and called them (among other things) "baby-killers".

Hippies did push for civil rights. But ended up creating ghettos, and tying an entire culture down to ignorance, and self destruction.

Hippies did get women out of the kitchen. Now? We have soccer-moms, and women who pay to have their children raised by other people. Not to mention inflation.

Hippies didnt like the killing of whales or dolphins. Fought against that. But now? They drive Priuses and stand in judgment of those who dont. (See South Park)

Yeah, us Gen-Xers are self-absorbed and nihilistic. But who and what taught us to be that way?

ETA: Not to mention, hippies are the most adamant for government control.

Wulf, you are one hopeless, deluded little dude, you know that? You're pissing and moaning about people trying to "put you in a little box", and look at your own behavior and words. There is simply NO ONE ANYWHERE AROUND HERE who uses gross generalizations and stereotypes more than you do. And yet no one gets more indignant about it when they're on the receiving end of those kinds of stereotypes, do they?

Can you please, PLEASE show me one single ghetto that was "created by hippies"?

"(See South Park)"? Really? That's your basis for reality?

Mike

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Thursday, September 3, 2009 4:19 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I have always thought of Hippies as 'People who are dissatisfied with their lives, the world, or their place in society, and consequently make a lot of noise about their dissatisfaction.'

But this definition of hippy would necessarily put Wulf together with some of the people he seems to be railing against.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Thursday, September 3, 2009 4:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
You are mistaken.

Threat of arms is my last resort.

But, should it come to that... well..

lol

Bullshit. Threat of arms isn't your "last resort" - it's the very fucking first thing you resort to. There's not one single argument that comes up that you don't blow something out your piehole about how a gun or a .308 round would sure decide it.

If threat of arms is your last resort, why do you always resort to it first? You seem to spend an awful lot of your time staying at that particular resort; did you buy a condo at The Last Resort?

Mike

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Thursday, September 3, 2009 4:27 PM

Quote:

Only, with SO MANY fundamental ills plaguing society, where do I start?

At the beginning, is as good a place as any. Or jump in the middle. A first step is as much a step as a last step.

Mike

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Thursday, September 3, 2009 4:42 PM

Traveler, ECGordon, Niki, Signy...

My hat's off to all of you, and I only hope and wish that I could do half as much as you all have. I'm younger than y'all, but still older than many here (47). I came after the hippies, but identified with them in spirit and mission. I still do. I'm more jaded, perhaps more cynical, with a bitter sarcasm as my shield and lance, but still we fight on.

I've had personal relationships with people on both sides of the 'Nam war - my dad went because he was ordered to and felt it was his duty, and on of my good friends headed for Canada and didn't come back until amnesty was granted to the draft dodgers (I met him well after this, when he was my math tutor in college; we remain good friends). I have a deep respect for both of them, and they for each other, because both followed their consciences and sense of duty. Were either of them "wrong" in their choices?

Mike

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Thursday, September 3, 2009 10:34 PM

FILLYGIRL

Operative: "Its worse than you know..." Mal: "It usually is."

I'd just like to say, Niki I'm with you I'm that age and I agree with your post,(and all the other hippies). Rage on lady!!!

So funny, this gen sits on their butts and critizes the world they have made....the hippie infulence has been gone for a long time and its the gen after us who raised this lazy bunch.

Bye

Chaplain of the 76th Independant Battalion

Do not bother dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

...it's worse than you know...Operative
...it usually is.....Mal

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Friday, September 4, 2009 12:04 AM

*blink*

No way, y'all seriously mean to tell me that despite how I sound, I'm one of the YOUNGEST rabble rousers here (39) ?!

That's just damn strange, although according to LilyWhite I was "born old and crochety", meh.

As for this crop of generations - they're not quite as apathetic or uninvolved as we've been lead to believe, consider that much of the evidence supporting that theory comes from the same sources that told us Saddam had WMD, we were winning vietnam, and that the spanish blew up the Maine.

Of *course* they would want the current generation to be shallow, apathetic consumers and would reinforce both the belief that they are, and glorify it in every way possible in order to encourage it, with the additional benefit of causing those of previous generations to not respect them or their opinions, thus preventing any useful cooperation between the two.

Indymedia, for example, is run by the current generation, as are many other activist fronts, but conversely, the powers that be have gotten far better at, and more blatant about - cointelpro style infiltration, sabotage and character assassination, especially with a compliant media shilling for them all the way, and direct assistance from the military, as the intercepted radio transmissions from the seattle WTO confrontation show without a doubt.

There's also the question of the stakes - cause overall the primary risk to hippies and peaceniks was a police beatdown and mild charges often as not dismissed, and only the rare occasion of assassination or longterm incarceration - but these days such "domestic terrorism" carries a MUCH higher risk factor and anyone serious has to be so compartmentalised as to be invisible to the populace as a whole, at least initially.

All but one of my own personnel are from the current generations, and so are a lot of my contacts via the socrates club *because* I don't look down on em, can and will relate to them in a no-bullshit way as potential equals, while giving them the knowledge and tactics to be effective in trying to make positive changes if they've the desire and will to back it up.

Although in some cases desire and will isn't exactly where the problem lies...
*shudder*
My youngest niece is really, REALLY sick of the bullshit our world have shovelled on her, especially as she knows right damn well 99% of it is because till she hits "the magic number" she's considered socially and legally below the status of a housepet.

While not as violent as her uncle, she has the exact same sideways worldview, criminal bent, and crafty disposition - so she's very frustrated and I had to listen to another one of her ragefits on the phone cause I am the only one who even listens to her at all, and she said something that chilled me to the very bones.

"They better hope to hell I die before I hit eighteen, HOPE TO HELL!, because if I don't *hissss* it's payback time, I don't care if it takes a hundred years and I'm an old lady stabbing them with crochet needles!"

Oh yes, I know that sentiment, having uttered it myself back in the day and meant it every bit as sincerely then as she does now - which is of course what frightens me so, she DOES mean it, she WILL do it.

It's the *how* that I desperately need to teach her before she goes off and tries, besides which she has only the vaguest idea who even she means by "they" - right now I'm damn thankful she'll listen to me, cause at that age I would not have listened to *anyone*.

I suspect that the powers which be ain't never gonna rest easy so long as any part of my descendents still live, and that leaves me somewhere between honestly proud, and seriously creeped out.

Anyhows, I think y'all underestimate current generations - I know damn sure the former ones underestimated mine.

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Friday, September 4, 2009 3:29 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Frem,

No way you are 39.

Maybe 10 years ago you were 39......

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Friday, September 4, 2009 4:44 AM