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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"you lump people together, and we're NOT all the same."

Yeah. Like you lump me in with the Klan, or the skinheads.

Never bothering to read what I write.

Cause its so much easier AND

SAFER

to do that.

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
I can't see the videos in question. However, I'd like to assert my vegan anarchist tree-hugger inclinations. I have, in fact, hugged several Ponderosa Pines. And sniffed them. They smell like cinnamon vanilla. Mmm.

In regards to PETA and other groups that sometimes take things too far, some people are douchebags and try to force their cause on everyone, which is ineffective and annoying, but that doesn't mean the cause isn't worth pursuing on a personal level.

And in defense of the tree-huggers who earn the title by setting up and living in trees to stop logging companies, maybe we need to start looking at other sources for wood and planty material instead of old-growth forests. Isn't there a such thing as a tree farm, and aren't they more efficient?

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:

Hello,

I dunno. When you burn garbage, it seems to me you're just moving it.

From the landfill to the air.

If you're gonna use a polluting generator, I vote nuclear simply due to the volume of pollutant being very small compared to the quantity of energy generated. (Although it does last for bloody ever.)

I'm excited by Solar, Wind, Water, and Geothermal power. And if they ever get this fusion thing off the ground it might be nice, too.

Wulf, in regards to your comments...

I think it is what you actually say that has gotten you into trouble. I think it is what you actually say that has gotten you lumped into unwanted categories.

This is easy to change by actually saying things that convey your core message more efficiently and with less chaff. I do think you mean well, and you're certainly thirty degrees better that Pirate, but that doesn't mean your message can't be refined and distilled further to eliminate the unnecessary racist or extremist elements.

--Anhony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
OMG. A light of intelligence shines through.

"In regards to PETA and other groups that sometimes take things too far, some people are douchebags and try to force their cause on everyone, which is ineffective and annoying, but that doesn't mean the cause isn't worth pursuing on a personal level.
"

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What is it with these moron that they can't get that part of the picture of "we're all going to die" is that *they* are part of the *we* who is all going to die.

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Gino

Doesn't really matter what you're farming for paper, or any other product. You want the maximum yield in tonnage per acre. For food, humans operate at about 0.1% to 0.5% efficiency in digestable foodstuffs. We do better than that in materials.

If you are using an area as farmland, you've already zeroed out the biodiversity. Yeah, some of it may come back, so I would like to see a plan of alternation: One acre farmed, the next wild, or something like that. But still, first growth forests hold 90% of all land species of life remaining on the earth. One forest has over 50% of all remaining land species, and we all know which one.

If you check maps, the most rapidly declining area are India and West Africa, followed by South-East Asia, then Central Africa, China, and SE Brazil. By total mass, the Taiga forest now reigns supreme, covering 17% of the earth's land mass, but the Amazon holds the most biodiversity. There are relatively few species that can withstand the Taiga's deadly hostile environment. Sarah Palin is one of them

But paper is on the way out, recycling paper would hold us forever. I have no objection to forest farming for lumber, or any other purpose, once the ecosystem is destroyed, everything is just a crop, and some trees can amass yield at a fairly alarming rate. As long as your acre is balanced as to the nutrient replenishment, particularly nitrogren, or HNO3, then you're probably good to go, climate permitting.

The most utter waste in the world outside of destructive overfarming, is to use arable land to produce meat, which is so inefficient that it hits under the <0.1%, and is the source of most desertification. I'm not an advocate for the rights of farm animals either. The farms create these animals. If the animals want to not be uncreated, they should figure out a way out ;)

But the truth is that the morons doing the damage not only know nothing about the way nature works, they really have generally never encountered nature, or spent much time with their planet that feeds them, gives them air to breathe, etc. IOW, these people are parasites, pretty much in a nutshell. If someone takes them out, it's just pest control ;)

It's true, we live in a very complex system, and we need to learn to manage better. Right now humans are making an enormous footprint on the Earth for the insignificant population of us that there is. We could do a lot better.

I was thinking earlier today, before I saw this thread actually, that while I oppose ZPG and anything like it, that I wouldn't oppose a population per yield limit. Essentially, set a rule: If you can produce enough food with the extant farmland you have tilled, then go for it. If you can't, then stop fucking around borrowing money from the IMF to fight wars against some minority ethnic group you want to exterminate or whatever, and get some help from someone in upping your food production.

Taking China's one child policy, how about this instead: Okay, Mr. Zhang, you and your wife want to have more children? here's an acre of extant farmland. Produce a yield greater than you can consume, and have as many children as you can feed.


Sorry, I digress.

Yes, using existing crops in new ways works. So will GMO. One form of GMO being experimented with now is instead of trying to alter the root plant, ie, corn, trying to engineer organisms that take the unusable portions of the crop and turn them into useable foodstuffs. I think both have merit

just some random thoughts

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Eat deadly nightshade, it bonds perfectly with muscular receptors in your body. Okay, so it can reduce acetylcholine activity to the point of paralysis an eventually death in short order. But it does so naturally!

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
So new agers are flakey, that's not news. Do you want me to dig up videos of Christians doing the hokey pokey and "speaking in tongues" shrieking, so that a fictional character created by some ancient hebrews that these douchebags believe to have infinite power will save their sorry asses from a hole that they most decidedly dug for themselves?


Actually, the way I see this is simple:

There's life

And then there is death

It's a choice. You can choose a fascinating variety of a complex world which provides almost infinite base for continued existence of all things, including yourself. Afterall, biodiversity of rainforests is the basis of 90% of all modern medicine, to say nothing of alternative medicine.

Then, there's the option of oblivion. It exists briefly in a desert after having destroyed everything. It does not matter whether this desert looks like this

Or like this

The end result is the same: a failure to connect with the power of nature, which will in short order send us ending up like these schmucks.



I believe Jon Stewart hit the nail on the head when he said: (sorry if I don't get this quote exactly)

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What is it with these moron that they can't get that part of the picture of "we're all going to die" is that *they* are part of the *we* who is all going to die.

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Sorry, I've studied way to much of human history, on every time frame, to have any sympathy for you at all.

The damage that you do stains the globe, for millions of years. No one will know who you were, or what you did, all they will do is look down at your crumbled bones as say "I wonder who this dumb fuck was, that did this damage." And for 3 million years, the human race has supplied them.

Well, no, "stuck a nerve" isn't the correct term. I think that you've hit the issue that I go to war for. When this comes to an apocalyptic final battle, I side with the forest, and whoever is with me.

The Tao *prefers* non violent solution, but it dictates the least active path to solution. It does not mandate peace regardless. When some idiot is trying to destroy the planet, action will have to be taken.

Oh, and as I've mentioned before: I'm a pretty good shot.

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My point was that while I agree with Conservation and proper development of land...

When you have these folks promoting it... well it sets everything back, doesn't it?

I mean, someone here said it... want to promote anarchism? Cut your hair, take a bath, take the black nail polish off, wear a suit (or at least clothes that fit)... and then intelligently DISCUSS your beliefs.

Doesn't mean you have to back off, or be any less militant. Just that you need to make yourselves look less... juvenile?

These ELF types, they just ruin it for people. They look like what they are. Spoiled, rich, white kids... who are doing it just for the poon they might get from the girls who think like them.

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
Dolphins appear to be the next candidate, assuming the poisoned oceans don't kill them off first.

Here's a thought: if a dolphin becomes self-aware, it'd probably be kind of squicky eating fish, because of the passing resemblance.

Maybe there's already been a few and they starved to death.

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Sure, the "Earth" as a planet with things living on it will kill us first, but not before we kill virtually everything else living on it, which is what I would collectively refer to as the Earth.

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I have long held the belief that if my death would cause the death of EVERY other human on earth, I'd gladly die. Because yes, a thing of beauty is still beautiful even if WE're not here to see it...and we make the earth less beautiful every day...hour...minute. Other species should have a chance to survive before we kill everything including ourselves.

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"You said you're a conservative who supports some conservation? This quote is not consistent with that perspective."

Christ. Stop trying to box me.

Never said I was a conservative (politically)..

Just that I believe that conservation is right

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Its so funny some days trying to wake you guys up. Seriously.

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