Toldja so, again. by Fremdfirma

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Toldja so, again.

POSTED BY: FREMDFIRMA
UPDATED: Friday, November 20, 2009 07:20
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VIEWED: 1357
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Thursday, November 19, 2009 10:59 PM

Chrysler drops three electric vehicles despite having touted them to get billions in government bailout cash
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2009/11/620001133
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So long as they can *depend* on those bailouts and subsidies, the idea of "green" cars from them will remain a fiction.

Even if you tie the deal to actually, yanno, PRODUCING one, it's just be the EV-1 all over again.

Fuck em.

-F

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Friday, November 20, 2009 1:46 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Good. Fuck 'em. You know WHY Chrysler's going belly-up?

BECAUSE THEY DESERVE TO. They build cars that are pure shit.

The reason I say "good" to them bailing on electrics is that this may free up the Dodge Cirvuit EV (the yellow car in the pics) to be built by someone else, probably Tesla Motors. How so? Well, the Circuit, like the Tesla Roadster, is based on a Lotus platform (in this case, the Lotus Evora four-seater).

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Friday, November 20, 2009 2:15 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
The reason I say "good" to them bailing on electrics is that this may free up the Dodge Cirvuit EV (the yellow car in the pics) to be built by someone else

No it won't - they'll just wait till they smell money and then sue sue sue for copyright violation, even if it IS a Lotus platform, since when has our nightmare world of courtroom "intellectual property" cared about the facts ?

And everyone KNOWS that, so none of em will ever touch it.

-F

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Friday, November 20, 2009 3:22 AM

KWICKO

Actually, Frem, not so much...

See, Chrysler decided recently, in a cost-cutting-money-saving move, to shut down its engineering archives and techincal library. And so they opened the doors and let anyone and everyone waltz in and out with armloads of documents and data, on everything in the company's long and storied history.

And I'm not suggesting anyone really copy what Chrysler DID on the Circuit EV - gawds, no! All that will get you is a miserable failure of a car, if their recent offerings are any indication. But any savvy engineer can study the tech specs and documentation and see which direction NOT to go in, and thereby hopefully deduce which direction TO go from that. :)

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Friday, November 20, 2009 3:43 AM

FREMDFIRMA

One of the geekfarm guys has an old Chevette he's stripped to the bone and replaced the motor with an Alpha Cycle Stirling engine backed up by a pressure regulation system between the cylinders - and he's clearing 56 MPG on it, which will likely go up significantly this spring when he gets around to replacing a lot of the bodywork with carbon fiber.

Damn thing will run on any flammable liquid of any kind, too - we're currently wondering if the pressure regulator can be adapted to compress the fuel so even Diesel or SVO can be run.

But so long as the big three can buy politicians (and just ask Preston Tucker about that!) there's not a hope in hell - they buy the politicians, the policitians hand em subsidies and bailouts, with which they re-buy the politicians, a money cycle which locks in the status quo in a stagnant state and causes endless harm*

So you gotta jam up the gears of that machine first, even if you DO have a functional prototype, or you're doomed from the start.

-Frem

*I note that the same money-cycle concept also applies to Israel, foreign aid, and US Politicians, with much the same result.

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Friday, November 20, 2009 3:55 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Today network teevee news reported on the wonderful (imaginary) Chevy Volt by Govt Motors. Don't it cost $40,000, and is still in "development" hell? I can buy a new Chevy Cavalier for under $10,000.

Didn't Chevy kill the Volt (EV-1) several years ago?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1

http://gm-volt.com

GM cancels Volt factory after cashing bailout check
www.thegreenmotorist.com/index.php/chevy-volt-engine-plant-cancelled/

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Friday, November 20, 2009 3:56 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"He says electrics will only make up 1% or 2% of Fiat sales by 2014 and that he doesn't put a lot of faith in the technology until battery developments are pushed forward."

Hello,

It is true that the primary obstacle to good electrics is energy storage. However, energy storage problems will not miraculously solve themselves. One must build electric cars before one can build better electric cars and finally achieve ideal electric cars.

People are hungry for even the non-perfected electric car technology, as the story of the EV-1 proves. A sizable portion of the market is not interested in cross-country travel. A lot of people just want to get to work or the local club, and possibly do so with a little smug satisfaction. You start there.

It's like they are refusing to build the Model-T because it's not a Mustang. Well, you can get there from here, but not if you don't actually start walking. Or driving, as the case may be.

I hope they fail. Hard. Myopia should be deadly in the world of business.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, November 20, 2009 5:37 AM

DREAMTROVE

Well, GM used its bailout money to move its plants overseas. Oh government, how we need your superior insight...

Reason I can't support the left: They believe if the govt. was put in charge of looking over everything, then all our problems would be solved.

As for democrats and republicans, can't support either, now. I suggest taking over a mainstream party and staging an anti-federalist revolutionary coup, which would only last a few years, but they would be good years, and maybe we could do something destructive like dissolve the union.

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Friday, November 20, 2009 6:30 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Reason I can't support the left: They believe if the govt. was put in charge of looking over everything, then all our problems would be solved.

Reason I can't support the right: They believe if the corporations were put in charge of looking over everything, then all our problems would be solved.

That was just too easy, D'rove.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Friday, November 20, 2009 7:02 AM

RAHLMACLAREN

"Damn yokels, can't even tell a transport ship ain't got no guns on it." - Jayne Cobb

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

But so long as the big three can buy politicians (and just ask Preston Tucker about that!) there's not a hope in hell - they buy the politicians, the policitians hand em subsidies and bailouts, with which they re-buy the politicians, a money cycle which locks in the status quo in a stagnant state and causes endless harm*

*I note that the same money-cycle concept also
applies to Israel, foreign aid, and US Politicians, with much the same result.

I'm sure Big Oil is in that equation somewhere.

Money Flow: Big Oil -> Big 3 -> Gov't

Benefits: Gov't (Bailouts, Delayed Regulation)-> Big 3 (Keep oil prices high)-> Big Oil

Funny how the SUV craze is during the highest gas prices ever (+ the 2 *Armed Conflicts).

*Edit: Replaced "Wars". Since when was the last time Congress actually declared a war?

--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

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Friday, November 20, 2009 7:08 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
People are hungry for even the non-perfected electric car technology, as the story of the EV-1 proves. A sizable portion of the market is not interested in cross-country travel. A lot of people just want to get to work or the local club, and possibly do so with a little smug satisfaction. You start there.

If only!

All I need is a freakin box with one seat and a motor, plus enough cargo room for groceries.

I mean, personally - just life and work with my own car, the mileage comes out to about 10-15 miles A WEEK, if that.

But nooo, even the SmartCar is like $13k - and is completely outclassed both in performance and fuel efficiency by the Nissan Versa which is slightly cheaper and does not require premium gasoline.

Plus the cost and weight of that "mandatory" *coughcough* "safety" equipment on top of it, killing the performance, fuel efficiency and on occasion reliability (do NOT spill a drink on the floorboards of a saturn or alero/aurora - you short the airbag controls and it's baaad news) while jacking the cost way up past anything someone with a brain would pay...

Yeah, they do deserve to fail.

We need a new "peoples car" - some cheap, modular hunka-junka which is a bare minimum ride for $5k-$7k - they'd sell like freakin hotcakes, especially if they were alternative power.

There's a MASSIVE market practically begging for a college car, second family car, poor mans work transportation, etc - which is still going untapped because no one sane is going to pay three times the value of a car that most often will not outlast the payment book.

I'll give the PT Cruiser this.. it was a tremendously overpriced piece of shit when built, but now, even lightly used, it's a CHEAP piece of shit someone can afford, as are a couple Jeep products, despite the crummy mileage.
There's like 4 PT Cruisers and 7 Jeeps amongst the residents cars here, for those reasons.

I did like the look of a Toyota Echo, but the resale value of the things is really high, and I ain't sure I could get used to the console being in the middle of the friggin dash.

I know one thing for sure - I ain't payin no $15,000.00 USD for a car worth maybe $6k

-Frem

There always has to be a price.

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Friday, November 20, 2009 7:20 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Frem,

I think the Indians will be the ones to sell the next UberCheapoTrashCar in the US. (The Indians from India, that is.) I expect them to be followed by China, who will produce something more attractive and will get better trade concessions.

I miss the old VW Beetle. Mexico built the last one a few years back, and it was a sad day for me. I was so sad when the new Beetle had a different design philosophy and a large price tag.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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