USA social commentary - a visiting European view by kpo

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
And to sum up some of the attitudes here

That is priceless!

That's what I was thinking.

My only problem with it? No American (other than maybe Al Franken, that is) could draw a map of the world that accurate.

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Thursday, December 3, 2009 6:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
I was referring to the ideology behind the British people.

Which you know absolutely nothing about.

Quote:

Britain has a long history of bowing to their monarchy. Its ingrained. No matter that they might now have a different form of government. (Laughable at best)

See Rue's comment. By the way, what is their current form of government? (That question is for Wulfie only; let's call it a pop quiz)

Quote:

Why else would they meekly allow the confiscation of their tools of self defense? Or cameras to be put on every street corner?

Which monarch to you bow to? Didn't you say you're from the DC area? Why did y'all allow the confiscation of your weapons of self defense prior to the Heller decision? And what's with all the cameras on every street corner in your neck of the woods?

Quote:

Well, because the government (queen) is LOOKING OUT FOR THEM!

Right?

Right. You really should look into the Queen's history a bit. Did you know she drove an ambulance during the second world war, and learned to work on and repair heavy vehicles, so that she could contribute to the war effort?

What was it you did during the war? Any of the wars, I mean? Since, ya know, you're all about patriotism and serving your country and all. And since you're "looking out for" your people, as you claim.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Thursday, December 3, 2009 6:58 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Come to think of it, I was in Spain last month and saw a naked, angry-looking man riding a bicycle through the one of the main plazas in Barcelona. He wasn't Jewish. (true story! Rode by me so close I could have touched it...him.) So obviously, all Spaniards are naked, angry, bicyclists, and not Jewish.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, December 3, 2009 7:03 PM

I've always been suspicious of the Swiss neutrality - I mean, how is it you're one of the few countries that don't get invaded. I guess the Germans had something to gain out of leaving them alone, and they are (in parts) German speaking already. They made a lot of money out of the war, quite immorally - the swiss banks are where the germans stashed their booty gained from murdering jews and plundering Europes priceless artworks. Sometimes neutrality is questionable when abhorrent things are happening to all your neighbours, and you just pull down your blind and turn the tv up a notch.

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Thursday, December 3, 2009 7:29 PM

Swiss neutrality is easy for them, because nobody WANTS to invade Switzerland. Look at it - it's mountains, ringed by mountains, surrounded by... MOUNTAINS. The Swiss have been there for eons, and are adapted to their terrain the way the Afghans are adapted to their terrain. You invade them, you don't need a matching force, or double their number. You need superiority on the order of a hundred to one or better, and nobody in recent times has found the risk worth the reward.

Add to that the fact that pretty much every Swiss citizen is trained in firearms proficiency, or at least was last I heard, and most of them are issued rifles or machineguns to keep in their home, just in case. It's said that the Swiss can summon a million armed citizens in less than 24 hours to repel any invasion, which will necessarily come through the few mountain passes which are easily guarded.

Think of the movie "300", and how a few men in just the right bottleneck were able to hold back a force numbering in the hundreds of thousands. (The actual numbers in the movie are bunkum, but it's true that a force of a few thousand DID hold off a force of AT LEAST 100,000, and possibly as many as 500,000, for some time).

I heard the story once of a German general, on the eve of WWII, visiting Switzerland and speaking with a Swiss officer. "How many armed men can you have at your disposal to repel an invasion?" asked the German. "One million men, in 24 hours" replied the Swiss. "So what would you do if I marched five million men through that mountain pass tomorrow morning?" asked the German. The Swiss thought for just a moment before responding, "I'd have each of my men take five shots, then go home."

And the Nazis never felt the need to invade Switzerland... or so it's said.

Don't get the wrong idea of Swiss neutrality - they're neutral, but they're not pussies, and they're not unarmed. They neutral because they ENFORCE that neutrality. And yes, there are German-speaking Swiss. And French-speaking Swiss. And Italian-speaking Swiss. They're a melting pot, and seem to do pretty well at it.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Friday, December 4, 2009 2:37 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
My understanding is the original poster was commenting on the difference between America as depicted in the media, and America in reality. Not whether Europe is better than the US or vice versa.

There are two reasons I would say why a European might be shocked to learn of some of the reality of life in America - one is to do with the type of media that reaches us (perhaps only in our younger years) reflecting the more glamorous side of America. But another reason is that America is a land of *extremes* (tho perhaps Americans don't see anything unusual), and that the extremes of poverty and violence in the US are *much* worse than what you can find anywhere in UK/France/(West)Germany. In this respect I would say the US is more on a par with countries like South Africe/Russia/Brazil, countries with real problems - and yet the US is richer than these, and even UK/France/Germany.

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Subjects vs citizens.

Slaves vs free people.

I just passed over this the first time, didn't understand what you could be saying... Absolutely unreal. Sometimes what I hear from the American right about Europe reminds me of a story of a Dutch missionary going behind the iron curtain to spread the gospel, and trying to talk to a Soviet soldier but coming up against: "Oh you're from Holland? You must be sick about the American occupation of your country." The missionary has to try and explain that Holland is not an occupied country, but gets nowhere...

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Most of it, actually. I tend to get robbed in *western* europe. It's a pretty common experience for americans.

Fair enough, I will note yours as an interesting, if quite anomylous (maybe cos your a conspicuously wealthy tourist?) experience. I have lived all my life in the UK, travelled around several citites in France, Germany etc. and never been the victim of crime, or felt in any real danger. As I'm sure is true for the majority of people living in America. But I maintain that some areas of the US are like nothing you will find in these otherwise comparable countries. Yes, all countries have their deprived areas, industries and cities in decline; and all towns and cities have their 'wrong side of the tracks' - but America in my view is quite unique in the way it takes this to an *extreme*. Why is this?

I'm sure there are a few reasons, but I suspect some of it can be put down to the extra 'edge' of individualism in the US mindset (folks like Wulf should note that individualism is not a uniquely American trait but a defining trait of Western culture and civilisation as a whole, going back to the ancient Greeks, see http://www.clearlycultural.com/geert-hofstede-cultural-dimensions/indi
vidualism/). My guess is that the slightly more collectivist European mindset finds levels of societal degradation abhorrent, that americans find natural (the way of the world, personal responsibility *shrug*).

Heads should roll

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Friday, December 4, 2009 5:02 AM

Magonsdaughter ?

Morality be damned, a countries leader has a certain responsibility to their own nation and people, over and above any for their neighbors, and while they had plenty of ground troops, sure - their neutrality was the only thing keeping the luftwaffe from bombing them back to the stone age.

And they used that neutrality also to the benefit of the allies as well, remember.

Speakin of, certain of the allied forces and noteable folk amongst them were also not above making immoral profits, since american corporations thought (and still do, IMHO) facism was the greatest thing since sliced bread given how much they hated those dirty unions, socialists, etc - remember that they supported that murderous bastard franco as well, and we happen to be the only nation on the planet who actually has nuked someone and it wasn't even technically a military target.

And take Finland for an example of our malicious behavior, for they would have rather remained neutral, but our "plans" for them and their country so horrified them that they threw in with the axis powers for mutual defense since the allied forces more or less threw them to the russian wolves - and yet throughout it all they were damned and bloody-handed determined to maintain their national sovereignty at any cost.

War is a damned ugly business all around, which is why smart people avoid them unless no other option presents itself - and all too often the choice whether or not to risk your neck for the intended outcome (all too often a lie in the first place, at least here in america) isn't up to you, but up to a bunch of shitheads who see you as cannon fodder, naught more than trained animals whos lives can be traded for political or financial points and support, something very much true ever since the civil war and our government forcing citizens to fight their countrymen at gunpoint.
(see also: NY Draft Riots)

Hell, some americans volunteered, against the wishes of their own government, to fight AGAINST Franco, choosing of their own free will to risk their necks, and many in WWII actively chose to fight it because they believed in putting a stop to Hitler and Mussolinni's aggressions, even when those aggressions had not yet directly impacted them.

On the other hand, we also did a lot of fighting to suppress other countries for corporate profit, look into the fruit wars for more info about that.

So war isn't really a business of morals, per se, and once the bullets fly a leader and a nation has to look to it's own interests even if some of the conduct required for it is quite reprehensible.

I don't blame those leaders, those nations, so much as I blame the governments who's ambitions or arrogance initiate them - poland, france, they didn't have much choice, nor did they initiate hostilities, you see ?

But then again, imma Anarchist, and the idea of taking up arms and shooting at folk I don't even know who have done me no wrong simply because I am told to by a government thoroughly appalls me in the first place, as does the notion of anyone with a damn lick of sense doing so.

For a fact, more people of the world have died by the stroke of some leaders pen than bullets have ever killed - and folks wonder why I got an issue with the idea of governments...

-F

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Friday, December 4, 2009 12:07 PM

I'm sure all European countries would have preferred to remain neutral - they just didn't get a say in it. Germany invaded them and bombed the shit out of them.

ever played Diplomacy? Even though it's WW1, it gives a great insight into how countries like Switzerland, Sweden and Ireland were able to stay neutral, but poor old Belgium - not a chance.

Sometimes neutrality is immoral, especially if you also reap the rewards of those who suffer around you.

It still feels to me like someone's raping your next door neighbour and you are the one that says...I'm not calling the police, nothing to do with me!!

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Friday, December 4, 2009 12:27 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"I have lived all my life in the UK, travelled around several citites in France, Germany etc. and never been the victim of crime, or felt in any real danger. As I'm sure is true for the majority of people living in America."

Not ... necessarily. No one in the US wants to be caught in certain areas of their local city, especially during the night (though, when it's a bad anough area, broad daylight is also a bad time of day). There is this feeling of being the lone target on the street.

That's why I can spot a Canadian or European in a crowd in the US. They are the ones comfortably walking with their heads up looking around and acting as if they belong there. The USers, OTOH, are extremely defensive.

BTW, everything danerous that has ever happened to me up to and including being beaten has happened in a US city, and usually during the day - I don't to go out at night unless I need to. This is in contrast to my exprience in several Canadian cities, where I comfortably and freely walked all hours of the day or night through all sorts of areas, and was never once so much as even mildly hassled.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, December 4, 2009 1:13 PM

Hehehehh... My old neighborhood, Rue, I actually got pulled over one night on the way home, because the cop wanted know what I was doing in that area. He apparently figured a white guy in that area at night was there for only one thing: drugs. I told him I lived just down the block, showed him the address on my license, and he looked a bit nonplussed. I explained to him that I moved there for the cheap rent, and the dogs and guns helped me feel unthreatened, which he kind of understood. :)

I walked the neighborhood at night, but I always kept my wits about me as far as situational awareness goes, and was never hassled. Had one car stolen, and two broken into, but I'm told that happens in every part of town...

Now, there ARE some alleyways and dead-end streets in that area where I won't go even in broad daylight, with a gun in my hand.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Friday, December 4, 2009 2:56 PM

DREAMTROVE

Magons'

I think this had more to do with banking than with diplomacy.

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Friday, December 4, 2009 3:05 PM

I was talking about the game...

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Friday, December 4, 2009 3:16 PM

Rue, Mikey ?

I could hardly be called upon for an opinion of that mess, since I grew up in a neighborhood where you had to be careful even buyin groceries, cause if you didn't leave one hand free for your pistol you were buying trouble right from the start.

When I was workin for Eagle-A1, the owner let me use one of the security cars (bulletproof) we used to escort limos since we didn't get much call to use them and it's bad to leave a car sit unused, maintainence wise - and it had sufficient anti-theft measures that it'd actually BE there in the morning, with all four wheels still on it.

My place was on the top floor of a lot of narrow steps with no landing, and the steps were both sensor rigged and boobytrapped - if I thought something foul was up a pullstring would yank the pin of a CS gas grenade in the light fixture and fill that hallway quick, and STILL I got shot at twice for no particular reason in between the front door and the car.

Funny thing about that, was that one of the local midlevel drug yahoos wanted to rush my place*, and used the damned cops as a freakin recon team by levelling a weapons accusation, causing them to come and search the place - they did it correctly, for the most part, came during the day and knocked politely, sliding a copy of the warrant under the door.

I let em in and sat in my kitchen drinking cocoa while they looked around, and one of em got pissed at not finding anything and kinda trashed the place, which resulted in the landlord sending them a bill, which they surprisingly *did* pay through their community relations division.

His goons, now having the idea that their buddies in blue had rendered me defenseless did try some funny business a couple days later, and I had to bring home another CS grenade...

Livin that way drives people insane, and the fact that the Baltimore PD was so rabidly and aggressively anti self-defense that the druglords used em to strip others of the capacity for it didn't leave me warm fuzzies for the force, especially as it was notoriously corrupt.

I drove through there some few years ago (I do this because otherwise the people with me will not believe it was that bad) and the place looked like Beirut after the war, a bombed out shell almost desolate of life - looks like everyone who coulda left did and those remaining killed each other - damn glad I got the hell out of there, many weren't so lucky, or ruthless enough, especially the old folk livin on pensions and whatnot...

They talk about the american dream, but I tellya, it sure as hell isn't visible from the corner of 10th and Stohl, and that's a fekkin fact.

*Said dopelord was a little pissed about me bouncing one of his little hoodlums off my fender, since my ignoring his attempt to sell me drugs encouraged him to try a carjacking - bastard even shot at me as I drove off, but he didn't hit a bloody thing and it wouldn't have mattered if he did.

FYI, I hated that goddamn stop sign there - if you stop, you risk robbery or carjacking, and if you DON'T stop, the goddamn police cruiser (who conveniently managed NOT to see any of the drug dealing) sittin at the end of the street would be all up in your ass with a ticket, lickety split, fekkin bastards... people wonder why I hate police, *hissss*

-Frem

There always has to be a price.

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Friday, December 4, 2009 3:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I'm sure all European countries would have preferred to remain neutral - they just didn't get a say in it. Germany invaded them and bombed the shit out of them.

ever played Diplomacy? Even though it's WW1, it gives a great insight into how countries like Switzerland, Sweden and Ireland were able to stay neutral, but poor old Belgium - not a chance.

Sometimes neutrality is immoral, especially if you also reap the rewards of those who suffer around you.

It still feels to me like someone's raping your next door neighbour and you are the one that says...I'm not calling the police, nothing to do with me!!

Oh I take your point, I was just bringing to light the question of who has to risk their neck for it - I am ok with folk volunteering to do so, not so ok with someone else forcing them to under threat of violence/incarceration/etc.

Like I said, there were americans who went to fight Franco even in defiance of their own country supporting him cause the guy was a freakin monster.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln_Brigade
The mess in Catalonia is where the final break between the Socialists, Communists and Anarchists occured, since the former two went and threw in with Fascists against us, and we've never ever forgotten it - that they sided with everything they claimed to hate against their "friends" because their "friends" didn't want to grab the leash for themselves, but rather cut it into pieces and set it on fire.

The very IDEA of Anarchist Catalonia was a threat to every single government of any kind on the planet, and they knew it and reacted accordingly.

And yes, all too often nations don't get much of a say in it, or are dependant on some resource that the lack of will be crippling - which is why us attacking Iran would be suicide, cause the Russians are gonna scream "THAT'S OUR OIL SUPPLY" and come running, enraged, to defend it, whether they actually LIKE the Iranians or not.

As for historically, if we *HAD* taken the moral course, and not dropped Afghanistan like a hot brick when the Soviets pulled out cause it was no more use to us, if we had kept our promises...

We wouldn't be in this fuckin mess, would we ?

I doubt they expect us to keep any promises even now, many as we've broken to them - and we keep halfassing the job with puppets like Osama, Saddam, The Shah, etc - which always, ALWAYS bites us on the ass a while later, and Kharazi will be no different, I figure he goes the way of that shitheel Chalabi, who's prolly living high on the hog somewhere on however much he scammed out of us and laughing up his sleeve besides.

Anyhows, I think it should be up to the individual whether or not to risk their neck outside of their own country out of moral obligation.

-F

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Saturday, December 5, 2009 5:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
And to sum up some of the attitudes here

That seems to be a dead hotlink now, Magons. I found a fresh one, (1) because I think that map is hilarious and scathing at the same time, and (2) because I think it adds to the context of this thread.

Here 'tis:

Feel free to copy and paste it.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Saturday, December 5, 2009 8:06 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Oh, gawd, that one's HYSTERICAL...mostly because it's so right on!

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Saturday, December 5, 2009 10:24 AM

Yeah, MagonsDaughter found that one and posted it, but her link went dead. I thought it was perfect enough (especially for this thread) that I went searching for another hosted link and popped it back up because it's so awesome.

Thanks and all credit go to Magons for finding it in the first place!

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Saturday, December 5, 2009 11:29 AM

ALIASSE

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
I was referring to the ideology behind the British people.

Britain has a long history of bowing to their monarchy. Its ingrained. No matter that they might now have a different form of government. (Laughable at best)

I suggest that you do a quick search on Charles I and see how Parliament (the English one, not the Firefly one) expressed their displeasure with him. 400 years ago.

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Sunday, December 6, 2009 11:38 AM

Re: Baltimore.

I see not much has changed - some of the Conventions I used to attend have blacklisted the city and/or some of it's hotels because they are so gawdawful dangerous, and I was just pondering that when I tripped over this story...

http://news.aol.com/article/baltimore-hotel-shooting/803524

What a bloody awful place.

Although convention-wise, there was one bit of hilarity many years ago, before folk would shit a brick and scream for homeland security at the sight of a pair of pointy scissors...

Was a renfaire group that decided to talk a walk down the street from the hotel to the coffee shop, and a local street gang decided to start hassling them, to which they took in good enough humor till the gang pulled out the usual knives, chains, bats, etc...
(shooting wasn't *quite* as common then cause the police would ignore anything less, you see ?)

The renfaire group looked at each other in amazed disbelief, and then said gangbangers found themselves facing enough razor edged steel to clearcut a small forest, those were NOT prop weapons, oh no...

The bangers bolted, with the renfaire group in hot pursuit, a couple blocks down and tried to hide behind one of the police cruisers parked in front of the station there - which the boys in blue watched with amused contempt, without intervening, I mean, this was the BCPD, remember.

As the mighty heros spread out to flank them the bangers resorted to outright begging for assistance, to which the cops arrested em (again, BCPD, tossed the charges later and just kicked em out, sans chains, bats and knifes) and advised the renfaire people to get the hell out of sight before they suffered a similar fate.

Twice as funny was that some local reporter actually SAW that happen, and lingered lovingly over the image of a bunch of gangbangers being chased down the street by a squad of sword waving folk in period costume.
(For the record, it was the ban on live steel that caused this particular group to stop attending the Baltimore convention, can you blame them ?)

Anyhows, that's one reason that for the time being disarmament isn't an answer here in america, because the criminals are already emboldened by it, and utterly dependent on the non-resistance suggested by folks who do not mean well, they EXPECT meek compliance - for without it there would be a different risk assessment.

And so until the underlying causes and creation of such predators is addressed, which it hasn't been yet, not in any significant way, to ask americans to ground arms is to hand them over, defenseless, to the very predators their society creates.

Each country, each culture, is very different, in many ways, and it's never as bloody simple as folks try to make it, has less to do with weapons than it does people, and the nature of the law and society one is discussing.

That said, you couldn't pay me ENOUGH to try mugging a Glaswegian, crazy I might be, but I ain't THAT nuts.

-F

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Sunday, December 6, 2009 2:01 PM

That sounds hilarious. Wish I could have seen it (on TV - don't think I'd actually want to be there).

Baltimore is where the Wire is set, right? That's a great series - I'm still working my way through it. What was the thinking behind the planners who decided to build things like the Projects, and dump the poorest, most disenfanchised people there. It happened here as well, social planning at it's worst - seems these places become somewhere where people get stuck, in that gang - crime cycle.

Anyway, interesting stories Frem.

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Sunday, December 6, 2009 3:07 PM

SNARCLIGHT

So this expert bases his opinion of the United States on movies and video games. She/He wants me to take that opinion seriuosly.
I'm laughing right now.

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Sunday, December 6, 2009 4:50 PM

Magonsdaughter,

Yes, The Wire is set in Baltimore, where I used to live, and it references many real life events that actually happened while I was living there, a rare few of which I was tenatively involved with, though not by choice.

Of course, they had to play some of em up for hollywood, that window leap was actually out of a second story window into a full dumpster, and Donnie sprained his knee, was all.

And the keytune, used by more than one of em to tell folk to clear out, wasn't Farmer in the Dell - it was Pop goes the Weasel, as I recall.

Hell, might as well come clean with it - I was the Brooklyn Ghost, bit of an in-joke because the Brooklyn-Curtis Bay area, known to the police as "Barrytown" was a racially mixed area with a lot of old white folk living on pensions or social security, plus folk too poor to live anywhere else, most of whom were desperate as hell, combined with the local poor and the dope lords mid to low level cornermen and street dealers.

And most of the white folk were a little country-fried, which led to problems whenever the cops (rarely) actually tried to investigate anything, cause the black people clammed up, and you couldn't get any five of the white folk to shut the hell UP long enough to figure out what they were sayin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimorese

The reason for the ghost monniker is cause of the lame story handed upstairs by occasional cornermen or dealers of being robbed by someone who clouted them from behind and made off with their roll - the guys upstairs played occams razor on that and called bullshit.

It wasn't bullshit.

I was seventeen, not even yet legally emancipated with a hostile legally appointed guardian who had just robbed me of all I had and set the cops on my tail - I went to the one place even they would not go unless they came in force, and then what ?

I needed a security deposit and a bribe big enough to make the landlord look the other way, and damned if I was gonna take it from people worse off than me, who were as a rule well armed and more than willing to kill you to keep what they had - so I started takin off the dealers and cornermen when I could catch them out alone.

Tried to go legit, workin three jobs at eighty some hours a week, scratchin and scrapin and getting eaten alive by car insurance, inspection, emissions, tags, registration, plus the way all the businesses are predatory in their pricing - you are correct in your assessment that the ghetto is designed to keep those people from escaping, there *IS* no decent route out of there, especially when those nightmare fees make car ownership impossible, and the bus system is so unreliable no employer will hire you.

Especially, and I found this out from "inside" that little scam, that if your phone extension is 354 or 355 your application goes in the trash, period, they don't want "those people" working for them, the employers, you see ?

Having no choice, I went back to the only survival option I had, till opportunity presented itself working the other end, industrial security for the chem plant up in hawkins point, essentially a suicide-mission and a job nobody else wanted, the damn neighborhood is out on a peninsula stickin out, and cause of poverty and political pressure along with the NIMBY(Not In My Back Yard) principle, had four waste incinerators, a medical waste incinerator, several chem plants, a couple of refineries and landfills, and air quality and lung cancer rates six hundred times worse than the national average.

When questioned on that, city council responded by saying more people in that neighborhood smoked - that oughta give you a new outlook on tobacco lawsuits, neh ?

The EPA couldn't care less, nor could the state, with that sumbitch Shaeffer, a racist, sexist, old school bastard of the first caliber, who could give the Transmetropolitan Character "The Beast" a run for his money, practically GLOATING over the suffering of the poor unfortunate colored folk, hee hee, ha ha, ho ho, what a pity, innit ?

Besides which, half my job as "security" was keeping nosy or clueless folk from tripping over the hidden waste pipes and dumps, as well as cleaning up birds that had tried to fly over the plant while we were venting stuff we claimed we didn't - and every plant pointing the finger at every other plant, stalling any cursory investigation anyone would bother with anyways.

I managed to sidestep the car problem by again, taking a suicidally dangerous route, and opting for what you folk call a scooter, but in the states is a subset of them called a moped - a permit for that was fifteen bucks and good for three years, without any more crap required - but it's VERY dangerous to operate on in those areas, not just because of traffic, but because of the amount of violence required to make sure it stays YOURS.

Of course, about six months after I got outta there, they closed that loophole by making them illegal - can't have those pesky peons getting out of the trap, don't you know.
Yes, it's quite deliberate - notice how they're always backed up against highways, rail lines or other blockades to hem them in ?

I caught a break from one of the owners of Eagle-A1 making a drop at the plant cause he was short on drivers, he offered me a potential way out of the hood if I could drive a car - I told him if it got me outta Brooklyn I could fly the fucking Enterprise.

But in order to get out, it's worse than a zero sum game, it's a minus-sum game, in order to get by, to survive, you have to do things which impact other people negatively, you have to sink other peoples boats just to keep your own afloat - and it makes people crazy, and it's entirely deliberate in design.

I played it like a gambler on the rush, doubling-down on every hand, playing the whole wad every time, often enough with my very life hanging by a thread, because living it there wasn't "living" at all, just dyin real slow.

Worse, you HAVE to play it hard, cause every move you make trying to escape sinks it's claws that much deeper into you, so unless every step you take is a big one, you'll make no progress at all.

See, one thing I learned from being there, and can also be learned from watching The Wire - and the writers deserve a frikkin medal for it, is how it all fits together.

How the factions, the cops, the street, the gangs and the dopelords, the schools, the media, politicians, how all of them fit together and wreck each other just by doing WHAT THEY MUST in order to SURVIVE - like a fifteen car pileup no one can escape, and the most decent of em trapped on the bottom.

Seeing this point blank, listening to Sinclairs media manipulations (this being where Murdoch and Fox learned it from), watching the Cops make it worse just to have the excuses they need to exist and prosper, watching good people die, often in slow and terrible ways - drove it home to me and taught me how it all works, and worse, how fucking deliberate it is.

See, that's where PN always gets it wrong, it's never one great grand conspiracy, it's a lot of little petty ones by little petty people trying to get over and cracking off those of others and grinding folk up in the process, like a machine with rusty gears.

But there ARE guiding hands in there, and some of that "machinery" has no purpose but ill, or benefit to single parties, and I *DO* hold them responsible and screw with them mercilessly.

And one of the reasons I am so damned good at security is having learned it from the other end first, everything from knock-n-take, to second story, cracking, locks, enough that from THIS end, the amateur morons we get around HERE stand no real chance of gettin anythin but caught.

There's a few things I miss, tho Natty Boh ain't one of em

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Baltimore
That and none of these folk up here know how to steam or eat Crabs properly, lol.

But really, the best thing you could do for the place is nuke it - I have the feeling that even if you bulldozed it flat, salted the earth and paved it over, it would still remain an evil place - it's like the horror and misery has soaked right into the ground to where you can FEEL it, just driving through, not even lookin.

If you do visit though, stick to the inner harbor, it's the crown jewel, they robbed the peasants blind to build it, and have special cops to keep the locals OUT, *hissss* - just never forget that cost us several libraries and half the education budget, such as it was in the first bloody place.

-Frem

There always has to be a price.

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Monday, December 7, 2009 3:20 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by snarclight:
So this expert bases his opinion of the United States on movies and video games. She/He wants me to take that opinion seriuosly.
I'm laughing right now.

Modern Warefare 2 and Stargate SG-1? Super Mario Brothers and Chuck? Looks to me like America kicks ass and saves the world and imports the hottest Scandanavian chicks.

I don't watch Desperate Housewives or Reality TV.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Monday, December 7, 2009 1:44 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
So this expert bases his opinion of the United States on movies and video games. She/He wants me to take that opinion seriuosly.
I'm laughing right now.

I think you've missed the point - which expert? I'm talking about ordinary Europeans' shock when confronted with the extremes of US society (that Americans might consider natural). The fact that this guy develops video games is irrelevant, as his experience of America was firsthand.

Frem, thanks for the interesting descriptions of life in Baltimore - I'm up to season 3 of the wire and finding it excellent so far. From what you know would you say Baltimore is fairly typical of US cities, those that have suffered industrial decline? Or is it especially bad?

Heads should roll

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Tuesday, December 8, 2009 8:21 AM

I'd say it's especially bad, there's just something... wrong, with the people there, behavioral maladjustments that social factors alone do not explain, but the pollution also might account for that, particularly the lead from the shipyards - but even that, I just dunno.

It's like a contagious madness, it is, and hard to explain to someone who's not seen it, not felt it, like an external "pressure" you can almost feel physically, you see ?

Hell, for all I know Cthulu might be living in the sewers or something, it certainly wouldn't surprise me.

Seriously though, it's an evil place, and one best avoided.

-F

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Wednesday, December 9, 2009 1:02 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Any place is evil.

It takes strong folks (a lot of them) to roll in and fix it.

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Wednesday, December 9, 2009 1:18 PM

Evil is a strong word, I wonder if it really does apply - but I've never been there.

I think some places can be really, really dysfunctional - and it can be a generational thing that just goes on and on and gets madder - poor family structures, poverty, lack of opportunities, and add a drug taking culture, violence and corruption at civic levels and you have the cocktail for the places you describe - they exist all over. Some whole countries are like that, so count your blessings that it's only patches.

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Wednesday, December 9, 2009 1:23 PM