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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Cheney crawls out from under his rock...again...
Sunday, February 14, 2010 9:18 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:Former Vice President Dick Cheney, in an exclusive appearance on ABC News' "This Week," offered a sharp critique of the Obama administration's handling of national security and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, saying any achievements over the past year largely stemmed from policies implemented under President George W. Bush. If [the administration is] going to take credit for [Iraq's success], fair enough ... but it ought to come with a healthy dose of 'Thank you, George Bush' up front and a recognition that some of their early recommendations with respect to prosecuting that war were just dead wrong," Cheney told ABC News' Jonathan Karl. Earlier Sunday, Vice President Joe Biden said on NBC's "Meet the Press" that Cheney "either is misinformed or he is misinforming" about what policies have been most effective in combating terrorists. Biden has also suggested that Iraq may end up being one of the Obama administration's greatest successes. "Obama and Biden campaigned from one end of the country to the other for two years criticizing our Iraq policy," Cheney said. "If they had had their way, if we'd followed the policies they'd pursued from the outset or advocated from the outset, Saddam Hussein would still be in power in Baghdad today." On Afghanistan, Cheney said he is a "complete supporter" of President Obama's decision to send more troops to the region and praised the selection of Gen. Stanley McChrystal to head the effort. But the former vice president repeated his rebuke of the administration's handling of suspected terrorists, including would-be Christmas Day bomber Umar Abdulmutallab. Following the attempted attack on Dec. 25, Abdulmuttallab was interrogated for 50 minutes, read his Miranda rights and has been arraigned in U.S. federal court. The Obama administration also has promised to close the detention center at Guantanamo Bay, try several high-profile suspected terrorists in U.S. federal courts and repatriate others abroad. Cheney said the Mirandizing and detention of convicted shoe-bomber Richard Reid by law enforcement officials in December 2001 was appropriate at the time because military commissions were not yet operational. "We hadn't had all the Supreme Court decisions handed down about what we could and couldn't do with the commissions," he said. Reid was arraigned in U.S. federal court but never faced a trial because he pleaded guilty. "I do see repeatedly examples that there are key members in the administration -- like Eric Holder, for example, the attorney general -- that still insist upon thinking of terror attacks against the United States as criminal acts of war," Cheney said. Cheney: Biden 'Dead Wrong' on Chances of Another Attack . Cheney said the Obama administration's "mindset" is putting the country at risk of a terrorist attack and cited as an example Vice President Biden's recent statement that another attack on the scale of 9/11 is "unlikely." "I just think that's just dead wrong," Cheney said. "I think the biggest threat the United States faces today is the possibility of another 9/11 with a nuclear weapon or a biological agent of some kind. And I think al Qaeda is out there -- even as we meet -- trying to do that. "You have to consider it as a war," Cheney said. "You have to consider it as something we may have to deal with tomorrow. You don't want the vice president of the United States running around saying, 'Oh, it's not likely going to happen.'" The former vice president acknowledged that the debate over whether to treat threats to national security as criminal or wartime acts was waged within the Bush administration, too. "We had a major shootout over how this was going to be handled between the Justice Department that advocated that approach and the rest of us that wanted to treat it as an act of war," he said. Cheney said he disagrees with Obama administration's decision not to use so-called enhanced interrogation techniques and said he argued for them within the administration during the Bush years. "I was a big supporter of waterboarding," Cheney said. "I was a big supporter of the enhanced interrogation techniques. ... I think you ought to have all of those capabilities on the table." Cheney, who said he has not seen former President George W. Bush since they left office over one year ago, may be the previous administration's most outspoken member. He added that he was "deeply offended" by attempts to investigate and prosecute the Bush administration and CIA officials who helped construct and justify their counterterrorism policy. "I thought it was important for some senior person in the administration to stand up and defend those people who'd done what we asked them to do," he said. Cheney Undecided on Palin for President When asked about former Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska's presidential qualifications, Cheney said, "I haven't made a decision yet on who I'm going to support. "I think all of the prospective candidates out there have got a lot of work to do if in fact they are going to persuade a majority of Americans that they are ready to take on the world's toughest job," Cheney said. An ABC News/Washington Post poll released this week found 71 percent say "no" when asked if Palin is qualified to serve as president. Among Republicans polled, approximately 52 percent think she's not qualified to be commander in chief. Cheney took issue with Palin's suggestion that President Obama could help himself politically if he declared war on Iran. "I don't think a president can make a judgment like that on the basis of politics," Cheney said. "The stakes are too high, the consequences too significant to be treating those as simple political calculations. When you begin to talk about war, talk about crossing international borders, you talk about committing American men and women to combat, that takes place on a plane clear above any political consideration." In an interview last week on "Fox News Sunday," Palin said that if Obama "toughen[ed] up" and "secured our nation," people might think differently about him. "Say he decided to declare war on Iran or decide to really come out and do whatever he could to support Israel, which I would like him to do," Palin said. "f he decided to toughen up ... I think people would perhaps shift their thinking a little bit and decide, 'Well, maybe he's tougher than we think he's, than he is today.'" Gays in the Military: Reconsider 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell,' Cheney Says Cheney said he thinks it's time to "reconsider" the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy that prohibits gays and lesbians from serving openly in the U.S. military. Twenty years ago, the military were strong advocates of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' when I was secretary of defense," Cheney said. "I think things have changed significantly since then." Cheney served as the secretary of defense from 1989 to 1993 in the first Bush administration. Twenty years ago, the military were strong advocates of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' when I was secretary of defense," Cheney said. "I think things have changed significantly since then." Cheney served as the secretary of defense from 1989 to 1993 in the first Bush administration.
Sunday, February 14, 2010 9:40 AM
PIRATENEWS
John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!
Sunday, February 14, 2010 10:02 AM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:03 PM
TRAVELER
Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:26 PM
ECGORDON
There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.
Quote:"I do see repeatedly examples that there are key members in the administration -- like Eric Holder, for example, the attorney general -- that still insist upon thinking of terror attacks against the United States as criminal acts of war," Cheney said.
Quote:"You have to consider it as a war," Cheney said. "You have to consider it as something we may have to deal with tomorrow."
Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:39 PM
GINOBIFFARONI
Quote:Originally posted by traveler: Yes. Thank you Bush for going into Iraq and killing thousands, both U.S. military, its supporters and innocent civilians so we could remove a dictatorship. If getting rid of a dictatorship was the main goal of attacking Iraq, then why was that not made clear to the people and not the rhetoric about weapons of mass destruction and terrorists. Which brings up another point. What gives us the right to oversee the removing of dictatorships and creating democracies? Do we have some special mandate to start a war with any nation we feel does not meet our standards? Are our own standards so high that we can claim this right? If another nation feels it has higher standards of personal freedom have the right to invade and dictate their standards on us? And this guy still defends waterboarding. We have just witnessed a former soldier waterboard his four year old child. Does that not tell him the destruction such acts cause. This act of a father to his child shows the damage it does, not only to the victim of torture, but also the persecutor of this act. We, the United States, at the end of WWII, put Japanese on trail for war crimes and amongst them was waterboarding. So we go from condemning it in WWII to justifying against suspected terrorists. Please go to Wikipedia to see the full background of waterboarding. It is to long to quote the entire article here. And this takes me to another point. How many new terrorists filled the ranks of the extremist Al-Qaeda after learning of our torturing? We proved to them that we are the devils that they have claimed. Albeit the war on Iraq was also enlisting new members to their ranks. Sorry for the rant. Cheney gets under my skin. http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731 Traveler
Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:46 PM
Quote:Perhaps this is a problem with the amount of power lying with the executive in the US ?
Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:45 PM
MAL4PREZ
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: If [the administration is] going to take credit for [Iraq's success], fair enough ... but it ought to come with a healthy dose of 'Thank you, George Bush' up front and a recognition that some of their early recommendations with respect to prosecuting that war were just dead wrong," Cheney told ABC News' Jonathan Karl.
Sunday, February 14, 2010 2:00 PM
Sunday, February 14, 2010 2:05 PM
Sunday, February 14, 2010 2:18 PM
Sunday, February 14, 2010 3:10 PM
KIRKULES
Sunday, February 14, 2010 3:28 PM
Sunday, February 14, 2010 3:31 PM
FREMDFIRMA
Quote:Originally posted by Kirkules: I liked Jimmy Carter when he was President but his antics since really grate on my nerves.
Sunday, February 14, 2010 7:57 PM
ANTIMASON
Quote:Originally posted by traveler: Yes. Thank you Bush for going into Iraq and killing thousands, both U.S. military, its supporters and innocent civilians so we could remove a dictatorship. If getting rid of a dictatorship was the main goal of attacking Iraq, then why was that not made clear to the people and not the rhetoric about weapons of mass destruction and terrorists.
Quote: Which brings up another point. What gives us the right to oversee the removing of dictatorships and creating democracies? Do we have some special mandate to start a war with any nation we feel does not meet our standards? Are our own standards so high that we can claim this right? If another nation feels it has higher standards of personal freedom have the right to invade and dictate their standards on us?
Quote: And this guy still defends waterboarding. We have just witnessed a former soldier waterboard his four year old child. Does that not tell him the destruction such acts cause. This act of a father to his child shows the damage it does, not only to the victim of torture, but also the persecutor of this act. We, the United States, at the end of WWII, put Japanese on trail for war crimes and amongst them was waterboarding. So we go from condemning it in WWII to justifying against suspected terrorists.
Quote: And this takes me to another point. How many new terrorists filled the ranks of the extremist Al-Qaeda after learning of our torturing? We proved to them that we are the devils that they have claimed. Albeit the war on Iraq was also enlisting new members to their ranks. Sorry for the rant. Cheney gets under my skin.
Sunday, February 14, 2010 8:07 PM
CHRISISALL
Quote:Originally posted by antimason: thats probably the most important point. as long as we are seen as occupiers, we will be treated as such. but notice, what is Obama doing differently? hes expanding the wars! if we can all agree that our very presence there, regardless of our intentions, creates this resentment and fuels this hatred, how do we expect this to change by further occupying there lands?
Sunday, February 14, 2010 9:58 PM
Quote:Originally posted by chrisisall: Quote:Originally posted by antimason: thats probably the most important point. as long as we are seen as occupiers, we will be treated as such. but notice, what is Obama doing differently? hes expanding the wars! if we can all agree that our very presence there, regardless of our intentions, creates this resentment and fuels this hatred, how do we expect this to change by further occupying there lands? That's why Obama is sucking. The punk. The angry Chrisisall
Monday, February 15, 2010 3:19 AM
Monday, February 15, 2010 5:57 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Can somebody please show me where Obama's expanding the war in Iraq? Last time I checked, pulling troop levels down from 160,000 to 112,000 wasn't really an "expansion". Or am I missing something?
Monday, February 15, 2010 6:34 AM
Quote:Originally posted by chrisisall: Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Can somebody please show me where Obama's expanding the war in Iraq? Last time I checked, pulling troop levels down from 160,000 to 112,000 wasn't really an "expansion". Or am I missing something? I want them out faster; faster would be better. The laughing Chrisisall
Monday, February 15, 2010 6:50 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Waiting...
Monday, February 15, 2010 7:32 AM
Quote: we also havent declared a war through congress since WW2 either. thats whats so sinister about it.. we're basically performing police actions on a global scale. in their genius theyve somewhat created a loophole that allows them to take such extreme measures under whatever pretense they choose, and under the guise of 'national security'. take for example the patriot act: if we are constantly in a state of war, perpetual warfare, when would we expect to retire the legislation?
Quote: that our very presence there, regardless of our intentions, creates this resentment and fuels this hatred
Quote: Washington, Mar.22 Marking the sixth anniversary of the US invasion of Iraq, hundreds of American staged demonstrations protesting their country's involvement in war in Iraq and Afghanistan. The protestors, mostly war veterans and high school students were more muted but no less fervent than those in huge demonstrations of years past. Some were critical of the new US President Barack Obama saying he has opposed the war, yet he appears to be going ahead with some of the Bush administration's most controversial policies. "The president may have changed but the war is the same," they said. Anti-war protestors also marched in several areas in Washington against the Iraq war. The protestors, in demonstration named "March towards the Pentagon, set up placards demanding an end to the Iraq war. The occupation of Iraq has not ended, and the occupation of Afghanistan is escalating, some said. During the demonstration, war protestors were carrying around 150 cardboard coffins wrapped with US flags symbolizing US killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Before ending their demonstration Saturday afternoon, several placed cardboard coffins in front of the offices of northern Virginia defense contractors such as KBR Inc. and Lockheed Martin Corp. as riot police stood by.
Quote: Hundreds of people turned out Wednesday night to rally and march against Obama’s ’surge’ in Afghanistan. Billions more for war, misery and death abroad, billions less for human needs at home.
Quote: he is cowed into taking advise he shouldn't add his chief of staff whom I fiqure keeps him for hearing much otherwise...
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 8:46 AM
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 8:59 AM
Quote:Fix some of the other bad policys you have across the middleeast, then re-engage in a more positive way.
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:19 AM
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 10:46 AM
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 12:06 PM
Quote: Hannah Devlin London Telegraph Tuesday, February 16th, 2010 Nato troops and their Afghan colleagues involved in Operation Moshtarak have suffered another blow after three more civilians were killed in the campaign against the Taliban. The deaths – in three separate incidents – come after two US missiles struck a house on the outskirts of the town of Marjah on Sunday, killing 12 people, half of them children. Three others killed in the house were identified as Taliban fighters by local authorities. rest of the story- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/7248301/Operation-Moshtarak-three-more-civilians-killed-in-Afghanistan.html
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 12:17 PM
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:14 PM
AURAPTOR
America loves a winner!
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:29 PM
STORYMARK
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:36 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: Did anybody else catch that? I heard a vague whisper, a nothingness really. I'll I could make out was how stupid it was....
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:37 PM
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:13 PM
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:16 PM
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:43 PM
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:44 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: There is going to be such a celebration when Cheney's evil black heart finally gives out for good. Not by me, of course. I just hope they remember to burn the bones and salt the ground to keep the fucker from coming back.
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:52 PM
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:57 PM
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 3:01 PM
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 3:02 PM
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 3:13 PM
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 3:26 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Gino, do you truly believe Cheney acted “under orders”? I tend to think Cheney, Rove, and their cronies really RAN Dumbya---maybe efficiently enough that he didn’t know they were doing it. But I don’t think Dumbya was the power in the throne, by any means, except when he was truly bent on his own agenda (Iraq?).
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 3:36 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: There is going to be such a celebration when Cheney's evil black heart finally gives out for good. Not by me, of course.
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 3:59 PM
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 4:06 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: y nice, now, 'kay? ;o) Chris, you reminded me of a bumper sticker, while Dumbya was in office: "I never thought I'd come to miss Nixon."
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:14 PM
Quote:Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni: I think you and Niki are right about Obama being controlled, but I dont think it is the military doing it... I would point at the CFR, AIPAC, and that bunch controlling things behind the scenes. They have much more influence than the Military, and definitely have an agenda that goes against what most people feel are their interests
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:42 PM
Quote:I agree, Story--Mike, can I come along? I promise to help pour the big cauldron of goo that will keep him in the ground... And yes, Story, I heard a vague noise in the background, but I thought it was just the wind in the trees. Strange wind for Winter, full of hot air. Then the blessed silence returned.
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 6:03 PM
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 6:25 PM
Quote:Originally posted by antimason: Quote:Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni: I think you and Niki are right about Obama being controlled, but I dont think it is the military doing it... I would point at the CFR, AIPAC, and that bunch controlling things behind the scenes. They have much more influence than the Military, and definitely have an agenda that goes against what most people feel are their interests oh i agree with you there, CFR, Tri-laterl commission, WTO, IMF, the bilderbergs. when you string them all together in a sentence, people tend to discount you as a conspiracy cook.
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 7:59 PM
Quote: Cook? Really?
Quote: But yes, I *DO* dismiss you as a conspiracy kook. Very much so.
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