Quote:

---

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
And now the Legislature, in its' infinite wisdom, has come up with a great new plan....Make cursing illegal, and issue fines to people for bad language! I'm not joking, there is a measure in the Captol now to do just that. In many ways it's a look into the possible future of America.

---

Quote:

---

School fires entire teaching staff

ASSOCIATED PRESS
Last Updated: 10:50 PM, February 24, 2010
Posted: 1:44 PM, February 24, 2010

CENTRAL FALLS, R.I. — A Rhode Island school district has voted to fire all the teachers at an underperforming school.
The Central Falls School Committee voted Tuesday evening to fire every educator at Central Falls High School at the end of the school year.
It's the only school in the tiny, impoverished city north of Providence. Only about half its students graduate, and only 7 percent of 11th-graders were proficient in math in 2009.
The plan was developed because of a federal effort to makeover failing schools.
The Central Falls Teachers Union says it is reviewing legal options and hasn't decided what action to take.
Education Secretary Arne Duncan applauds the decision and says "when schools continue to struggle we have a collective obligation to take action."


Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/all_teachers_fired_at_underperfo
rming_X3nqPRBXONpxFpMSNritAN#ixzz0hFeHWuLk

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
"Next they'll tell you to use the three shells!"

How do you load a shotgun with three ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
"Next they'll tell you to use the three shells!"

How do you load a shotgun with three ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
"... public money needs to go to programs that have some public benefit..."

I disagree with your very narrow definition.

In your example, education should stop at high school. Everything you need to know to get a job you can learn in high shcool, if the curriculum is structured correctly.

Or maybe you think college is necessary for SOME jobs that need higher learning. In that case colleges should only graduate engineers, doctors, people with learning that has PRACTICAL application. Theoretical mathematics ? Gone. Physics ? Poof ! Theoretical chemistry ? Erased.

Or maybe you concede that SOME higher learning that doesn't have immediate application should be allowed. After all, how can society make technological progress without people pushing the boundaries of the known ? But then you have created idiot savants, people who know what to do and how to do it - but not why, or if, in fact, it should be done. As long as the money is good and someone is willing to pay, is as far as the logic goes.

Well, maybe it might be OK if SOME people learned history, logic, and rhetoric. Oooey gooey soft stuff that addresses things like - what are we assuming ? How did we get here ? Where should we go from here ?

Or maybe, just maybe, a population that is truly educated is a better, more thoughtful, more aware society.

***************************************************************

BTW - this is from a person whose every degree is scientific.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Storymark:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
And now the Legislature, in its' infinite wisdom, has come up with a great new plan....Make cursing illegal, and issue fines to people for bad language! I'm not joking, there is a measure in the Captol now to do just that. In many ways it's a look into the possible future of America.

---

Next they'll tell you to use the three shells!

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
I kind of agree ... and kind of disagree.

FWIW, at this point in time the majority of graduate students in the 'hard sciences' come from overseas. After all, the prevailing US attitude is - why work really, really hard at something if it doesn't make you rich ?

And then, many of the new-minted chemists I work with are depressingly narrow-minded techno-drones. Their attitude seems to be - I worked really, really hard to learn how to do this narrow field - now show me the money.

While I can understand the feeling that people should economize in tough times, I think ditching what we used to call 'fluff' classes, or even majors, would simply drive those above trends further. Those who will not go into the sciences or different types of engineering will go into business, and those who go into science or engineering will become even more myopic than now.

FWIW I came up through the 70s, when universities were tightly attuned to society due to the Vietnam War and the hippie movement. New degrees never seen before like 'Women's Studies', and 'Environmental Studies' were being offered. I even took those classes - they were interesting and helped me broaden my outlook. Otherwise I would have remained a provincial geek. And it didn't seem to hurt our generation any to have them.


***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
I think we are mis-communicating. I don't think the individual purpose of education should be to get rich (money). I'm not decided about measuring the social benefits and costs of education. Should they be measured in money ? Is there a better measure ?

Anyway, I'm open to more discussion, but I'll have to leave it for another day.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Storymark:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
And now the Legislature, in its' infinite wisdom, has come up with a great new plan....Make cursing illegal, and issue fines to people for bad language! I'm not joking, there is a measure in the Captol now to do just that. In many ways it's a look into the possible future of America.

---

Next they'll tell you to use the three shells!

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

---

Somebody watched Demolition Man recently

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:
So, no taking classes just for knowledge's sake? Hell, there goes about 80 hours of my course load... (all paid for by ME, thank you very much).

I often took classes "just because" - just because I was interested (but not because I wanted a job in that field - I knew I wasn't going to be a particle physicist or an astronomer, or a history or government professor). Some of those classes even led me off into different fields of study, which I'd have never been exposed to if I was ONLY going to school to find out what my job was supposed to be.




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Gino

Your question is very philosophical, but incomplete. Useful for what ? Productive to whom ?

Let me propose a hypothetical society. For lack of a better term I'll call them Karalians. Everyone who can works enough to meet their needs and have a measure of security, and to support those who are too young, too old or too infirm to work. No one is very rich or powerful, but no one is very poor and powerless either. These Karalians love art, music and dance. They lovingly pour much time into teaching their children to sing and play the traditional songs, to dance the group dances, and to create beautiful art to give away to those they love and like. It even be may be a society you would like to live in, if you had the chance. So, after years of this effort, the children are grown. Should the parents now be asking - but are they useful ? Are they productive ? Why did we waste our time on them this way ?

In societies of artificial dearth like ours, your questions make one kind of sense. But in the range of possibilities, they are unnecessarily restrictive.


***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by mincingbeast:
education is getting cut. there is absolutely no way around this short term, and there is plenty of blame to assign. nobody disagrees that cutting education hurts, but if any positive effect comes from the protests, it will merely be venting frustration with the economic reality we face. of course, i'd be frustrated too if the funding that puts students in seats was slashed, while administrators and other worthless bureucrats continue to receive lucrative salaries.

i'm with gino on this one. i don't not beleive that classes in say, jewish studies or african american studies are valueless. these classes, and majors, represent important areas of knowledge that are worth developing. but, as a fellow who earned a BA with very little applicability or carry over for a job, i can not agree that a degree in Literature is as socially valuable as a degree in Engingeering. while there are certainly "soft" benefits in having people exposed to these degrees, the fact is, certain classes are low hanging fruit.

EDIT: "taking a degree in folklore, defaulting on your student loans because the only job you can find after graduation is in a coffee shop is a bad thing"

crap, which i would've read that before posting my incoherent reply. excellent point! and the sad thing is, this hypo describes the majority of people that I know that came out of the UC system. it would've described me, too, had I not sold out and learned to enjoy the taste of blood.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
"... who still cannot meet their own needs ..."

As I tried to point out, we live in a society of artificial lack. People who do ANY job 40 hours a week are net productive in society. They ARE contributing more than they are taking. That we continue to suck value out of them to give to the already obscenely wealthy and powerful is a fault of our system, not of them.

But the system has corroded our humanity.

There IS no such thing as being poor, but wise. Poor, but talented. Poor, but inventive. Money is the only measure of our worth.

If you believe that, then yes, people with degrees that don't MAKE SOMEONE MONEY are a waste of human flesh. If you don't, then you will think otherwise.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by mincingbeast:
my heart goes out to these kids. seriously.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Gino

During the Depression well educated men were reduced to trying to sell apples on the street. Skilled workers were begging handouts.

Is your answer to keep people from investing in education or skills ? Or do you think the problem lies elsewhere ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Hero:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by mincingbeast:
my heart goes out to these kids. seriously.

---

But not your wallet.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.

---

Quote:

---

With limited resources why train people in skill sets that statistical studies would reveal to be not in demand ?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
WHAT limited resources?

Sure we're short of food, water, trees, wildlands, clean air and clean ocean. But we're not short of people. People train people. People learn from people. THAT we have plenty of!

---