Quote:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

Quote:

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And Mal has a point; would you care to list any country where there is NO government interference which are doing better than those WITH it? I'd be interested to learn about such a country. Unfettered capitalism is disasterous, as is "unfettered" any other form of government. Please prove otherwise with facts and cites.

---

I think Sudan and Sierra Leone have rather low government interference in their "free markets". I don't know if you'd really say they're doing "better", though. I guess it all depends on your view of capitalism!






"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

Quote:

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Originally posted by kaneman:

I have always found it ironic, that on a board that we all came to because of our love of our BDHs, There are so many people that seem to cheer on huge intrusive government.

---

And I've always found it ironic that on a board that we all came to because of our love of A TELEVISION FANTASY, there are so many people who can't seem to tell the difference between fiction and reality.


You say this will be no big deal in your life. I'd wager this "huge intrusive government" will actually be no huge big deal in ANY of our lives.

So what were you babbling about with all your doom & gloom "huge intrusive government" stuff, then, if it's not going to be a big deal?




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Quote:

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Originally posted by kaneman:

Let the states do it. They are closer to the people they govern.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by kaneman:
More and more laws are past every year

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Quote:

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Originally posted by kaneman:
How is controling your life protecting freedom. That is the most ass-backward thing I've ever read. Not only would I have to forget the constitutional restraints of government and civics.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by kaneman:
Bit by bit our liberties have been eroded especially on the local level. More and more laws are past every year gov. gets bigger and bigger....You will miss what we once had. Will it be doom and gloom...no. I never claimed that. I just think there is a better way.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by mal4prez:

Whatever. You're so full of it. Yet another hypocritical right wing partisan hack.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Niki2:
survival shouldn't BE a for-profit enterprise

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Ah, Niki, now you show your true colours... you care- you actually care for these Earth-creatures.

You'd never make it on Zod's team.




The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Quote:

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And Mal has a point; would you care to list any country where there is NO government interference which are doing better than those WITH it? I'd be interested to learn about such a country. Unfettered capitalism is disasterous, as is "unfettered" any other form of government. Please prove otherwise with facts and cites.

---

I think Sudan and Sierra Leone have rather low government interference in their "free markets". I don't know if you'd really say they're doing "better", though. I guess it all depends on your view of capitalism!






"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

---

who is argueing for unfettered government. Let the states do it. They are closer to the people they govern. This idea that a federal Official can govern a nation as large as the US better than the people on the state or local level is absurd....Just ask Thomas Paine.....Really read Common Sense again....

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Quote:

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Originally posted by kaneman:

Bit by bit our liberties have been eroded especially on the local level. More and more laws are past every year gov. gets bigger and bigger....You will miss what we once had. Will it be doom and gloom...no. I never claimed that. I just think there is a better way.

---

Quote:

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Originally posted by mal4prez:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:
Bit by bit our liberties have been eroded especially on the local level. More and more laws are past every year gov. gets bigger and bigger....You will miss what we once had. Will it be doom and gloom...no. I never claimed that. I just think there is a better way.

---

Oh, yeah, and you were SOOOO enraged when the Patriot Act passed, and when Bush was spying on private citizens, and when habeus corpus got shit on...

Whatever. You're so full of it. Yet another hypocritical right wing partisan hack.

Riverlove - did you figure out what's actually in the Health Care Bill yet?

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!!!

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
I'm starting to think he's avoiding me.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
I'm starting to think he's avoiding me.

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He's not avoiding you Mike, he's just busy replaying his Rush Limbo tapes to construct the proper response.


The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

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Quote:

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Originally posted by mal4prez:
And you know what happens when Rappy replays his Rush tapes. Has to get out the good lotion and kleenex. Could take a while.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by mal4prez:
Sarge - You've yet to provide any evidence that the HC companies wanted this bill, other than Boehner's "Brer patch" talking point. Which is not actual evidence of anything.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by SergeantX:
Bill Moyers, you know, that right wing nut job on PBS.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by mal4prez:

Quote:

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Originally posted by kaneman:
Bit by bit our liberties have been eroded especially on the local level. More and more laws are past every year gov. gets bigger and bigger....You will miss what we once had. Will it be doom and gloom...no. I never claimed that. I just think there is a better way.

---

Oh, yeah, and you were SOOOO enraged when the Patriot Act passed, and when Bush was spying on private citizens, and when habeus corpus got shit on...

Whatever. You're so full of it. Yet another hypocritical right wing partisan hack.

Riverlove - did you figure out what's actually in the Health Care Bill yet?

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Quote:

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Originally posted by kaneman:
call me anything just not a right wing hack.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

Quote:

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Originally posted by kaneman:

Let the states do it. They are closer to the people they govern.

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Yeah, no fat cats on the state level...


The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:

Bit by bit our liberties have been eroded especially on the local level. More and more laws are past every year gov. gets bigger and bigger....You will miss what we once had. Will it be doom and gloom...no. I never claimed that. I just think there is a better way.

---

GODDAMMIT, YOU JUST ARGUED *FOR* IT TO BE DONE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL!!!

Fuck, man, figure out your shit before posting it. You've talked yourself into circles, into a Gordian knot, in your efforts to undo what's already been done.




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Quote:

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And Mal has a point; would you care to list any country where there is NO government interference which are doing better than those WITH it? I'd be interested to learn about such a country. Unfettered capitalism is disasterous, as is "unfettered" any other form of government. Please prove otherwise with facts and cites.

---

I think Sudan and Sierra Leone have rather low government interference in their "free markets". I don't know if you'd really say they're doing "better", though. I guess it all depends on your view of capitalism!






"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

---

who is argueing for unfettered government. Let the states do it. They are closer to the people they govern. This idea that a federal Official can govern a nation as large as the US better than the people on the state or local level is absurd....Just ask Thomas Paine.....Really read Common Sense again....

---

So shall the states decide the gun issues? How about free speech issues? Abortion? Marriage? Flag burning? Where does your love of "states' rights" intersect with the Constitution?

And wasn't it YOU who was arguing for unfettered government? So are you now saying that it's not the government "control" you mind so much, it's who's doing the controlling? Why is it okay for *A* state to demand such insurance, but not ALL states? If you can move to a state that doesn't demand it, can't you also move to a different country? (Hint: Rush recommends Costa Rica!)




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by SergeantX:

Quote:

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Originally posted by mal4prez:
Sarge - You've yet to provide any evidence that the HC companies wanted this bill, other than Boehner's "Brer patch" talking point. Which is not actual evidence of anything.

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Spare me the "talking point" snark. I actually heard the Brer Rabbit bit from Bill Moyers, you know, that right wing nut job on PBS. (though the comparison had already crossed my mind)

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Quote:

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Originally posted by rue:
"... however they are easier to control. you know that."

Actually ... ... ... no. What happens in real life is that international corporations lean on people at both the state and local levels. For example, think of any major refinery in, oh, Louisianna. They get lax pollution control regs, tax breaks and even tax money in the form of supporting infrastructure. States and localities are that much easier to pit against each other and control.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by kaneman:
they are easier to control. you know that.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

Quote:

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Originally posted by kaneman:
they are easier to control. you know that.

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Yeah, I can also control a grizzly easier than a whale, too.


The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:

Bit by bit our liberties have been eroded especially on the local level. More and more laws are past every year gov. gets bigger and bigger....You will miss what we once had. Will it be doom and gloom...no. I never claimed that. I just think there is a better way.

---

GODDAMMIT, YOU JUST ARGUED *FOR* IT TO BE DONE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL!!!

Fuck, man, figure out your shit before posting it. You've talked yourself into circles, into a Gordian knot, in your efforts to undo what's already been done.




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

---

Really? Argueing for states rights is a knot? I don't know were you live , but here in the northeast we have health insurance for the poor. SAGA in Ct and Mass...we don't need a fed program that does'nt give insurance to the poor just makes myself and other mid class folks BUY it....get a clue

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Quote:

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Originally posted by kaneman:
A whale takes a fleet of ships(unless you have balls, a fishhook), A bear takes a bullett(unless you have balls, a rock)....Take your pick.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by mal4prez:
I looked through Bill Moyer's transcripts, and saw no references to Brer Rabbit. Do you have a link? Did one of his guests bring it up, or did he talk about it out of the blue, as in it being his idea? (I'm guessing the former, and have to wonder where the guests got it from...)

Cause, see - I still get no actual facts from you, only increased hostility. I've seen this happen many times when I ask right wing folk to give factual reasons for the arguments they offer. It's quite a tell tale.

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Quote:

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BILL MOYERS: Excuse my growing cynicism at this age and stage, but could this be the briar patch strategy? In other words, they want to get people angry enough to-- for Congress to pass that health care reform with the mandate that delivers millions of new customers to them under penalty of law.

WENDELL POTTER: Well, the way the legislation is structured, this will give them a lot of new business. And millions and millions, billions of dollars in new revenue, and much of it coming from taxpayers in the form of subsidies over ten years-- about half a trillion dollars will come from the US government to help cover the premiums, for people who otherwise couldn't afford to pay those premiums. So yeah, they will win. There's no doubt. They don't like a lot of this legislation. There's much they're trying to kill. And they could live without this bill being passed.

BILL MOYERS: Well, they're doing pretty well as it is.

WENDELL POTTER: Oh, absolutely.

BILL MOYERS: Personally and individually.

WENDELL POTTER: And yeah, exactly, and this system can be sustained quite a long time. And they can get richer and richer as we get more and more underinsured and uninsured.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:
he's never read one word of the bill?

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by SergeantX:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by mal4prez:
I looked through Bill Moyer's transcripts, and saw no references to Brer Rabbit. Do you have a link? Did one of his guests bring it up, or did he talk about it out of the blue, as in it being his idea? (I'm guessing the former, and have to wonder where the guests got it from...)

Cause, see - I still get no actual facts from you, only increased hostility. I've seen this happen many times when I ask right wing folk to give factual reasons for the arguments they offer. It's quite a tell tale.

---

Wow... and I'm the one who's hostile?

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by mal4prez:
What? You haven't packed your bags and started building that shack in Bumfuck Austrailia yet? Go on! Git boy, git! Prove to us how much you love your independence!

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:

Quote:

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Originally posted by mal4prez:
What? You haven't packed your bags and started building that shack in Bumfuck Austrailia yet? Go on! Git boy, git! Prove to us how much you love your independence!

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America, love it or leave it.

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:

Bit by bit our liberties have been eroded especially on the local level. More and more laws are past every year gov. gets bigger and bigger....You will miss what we once had. Will it be doom and gloom...no. I never claimed that. I just think there is a better way.

---

GODDAMMIT, YOU JUST ARGUED *FOR* IT TO BE DONE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL!!!

Fuck, man, figure out your shit before posting it. You've talked yourself into circles, into a Gordian knot, in your efforts to undo what's already been done.




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

---

Really? Argueing for states rights is a knot? I don't know were you live , but here in the northeast we have health insurance for the poor. SAGA in Ct and Mass...we don't need a fed program that does'nt give insurance to the poor just makes myself and other mid class folks BUY it....get a clue

---

My, you ARE stupid, aren't you?

You're arguing for states' rights by claiming that the federal government is taking control and THEN arguing that "Bit by bit our liberties have been eroded especially on the local level."

You don't see the knot you've just argued yourself into? You want MORE states' rights, because in your view, our liberties have been eroded, especially on the local level. So your smaller government, easier to control, closer to home, is the one you claim has eroded our liberties. In the words of the great Socrates, "Double You Tee Eff?"




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:
If you can make an arguement that women have the right to thier bodies in the case of abortion explain to me why I don't have a right to mine on wether or not I BUY insurance

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:

Bit by bit our liberties have been eroded especially on the local level. More and more laws are past every year gov. gets bigger and bigger....You will miss what we once had. Will it be doom and gloom...no. I never claimed that. I just think there is a better way.

---

GODDAMMIT, YOU JUST ARGUED *FOR* IT TO BE DONE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL!!!

Fuck, man, figure out your shit before posting it. You've talked yourself into circles, into a Gordian knot, in your efforts to undo what's already been done.




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

---

Really? Argueing for states rights is a knot? I don't know were you live , but here in the northeast we have health insurance for the poor. SAGA in Ct and Mass...we don't need a fed program that does'nt give insurance to the poor just makes myself and other mid class folks BUY it....get a clue

---

My, you ARE stupid, aren't you?

You're arguing for states' rights by claiming that the federal government is taking control and THEN arguing that "Bit by bit our liberties have been eroded especially on the local level."

You don't see the knot you've just argued yourself into? You want MORE states' rights, because in your view, our liberties have been eroded, especially on the local level. So your smaller government, easier to control, closer to home, is the one you claim has eroded our liberties. In the words of the great Socrates, "Double You Tee Eff?"




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

---

What are you twelve? I said nothing like that. Seeing the constitutional arguement is lost on you, lets try this one... If you can make an arguement that women have the right to thier bodies in the case of abortion explain to me why I don't have a right to mine on wether or not I BUY insurance.....Try this time. Really.

Oh, and dip shit, I have not said our liberties have eroded because of local government. I said it's because the Federal powers are over-ruling anything that should be done at the local level, thus making local correction impossible. The only knot here is the one in your head.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by chrisisall:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:
If you can make an arguement that women have the right to thier bodies in the case of abortion explain to me why I don't have a right to mine on wether or not I BUY insurance

---

Actually- you win here IMO.
But your spellcheck ain't working,


The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Right up until delivery (i.e., BIRTH), that fetus is no citizen, and due no rights at all.

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:

Bit by bit our liberties have been eroded especially on the local level. More and more laws are past every year gov. gets bigger and bigger....You will miss what we once had. Will it be doom and gloom...no. I never claimed that. I just think there is a better way.

---

GODDAMMIT, YOU JUST ARGUED *FOR* IT TO BE DONE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL!!!

Fuck, man, figure out your shit before posting it. You've talked yourself into circles, into a Gordian knot, in your efforts to undo what's already been done.




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

---

Really? Argueing for states rights is a knot? I don't know were you live , but here in the northeast we have health insurance for the poor. SAGA in Ct and Mass...we don't need a fed program that does'nt give insurance to the poor just makes myself and other mid class folks BUY it....get a clue

---

My, you ARE stupid, aren't you?

You're arguing for states' rights by claiming that the federal government is taking control and THEN arguing that "Bit by bit our liberties have been eroded especially on the local level."

You don't see the knot you've just argued yourself into? You want MORE states' rights, because in your view, our liberties have been eroded, especially on the local level. So your smaller government, easier to control, closer to home, is the one you claim has eroded our liberties. In the words of the great Socrates, "Double You Tee Eff?"




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

---

What are you twelve? I said nothing like that. Seeing the constitutional arguement is lost on you, lets try this one... If you can make an arguement that women have the right to thier bodies in the case of abortion explain to me why I don't have a right to mine on wether or not I BUY insurance.....Try this time. Really.

Oh, and dip shit, I have not said our liberties have eroded because of local government. I said it's because the Federal powers are over-ruling anything that should be done at the local level, thus making local correction impossible. The only knot here is the one in your head.

---

As for the abortion argument, I don't have to make that argument at all. You might have missed it, but the entire torture debate undertaken by the last administration - and a debate that was gleefully cheer-led by Cheney and other "conservatives" - was about making the point that non-citizens HAVE NO RIGHTS, constitutionally or otherwise. Now, the constitution is pretty clear about who is a United States citizen, and one big part of being a citizen is BEING BORN HERE. Right up until delivery (i.e., BIRTH), that fetus is no citizen, and due no rights at all.

Hey, it's not MY argument; it's the CONSERVATIVE argument. Sorry if it pisses in your punchbowl.




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by chrisisall:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:
If you can make an arguement that women have the right to thier bodies in the case of abortion explain to me why I don't have a right to mine on wether or not I BUY insurance

---

Actually- you win here IMO.
But your spellcheck ain't working,


The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

---

Actually, not so much. See my reply above for why that is.




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:
Trust me..in a world where I am forced to BUY insurance. someday something YOU want, or don't want, is going to be decided by the Gov.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by chrisisall:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:
If you can make an arguement that women have the right to thier bodies in the case of abortion explain to me why I don't have a right to mine on wether or not I BUY insurance

---

Actually- you win here IMO.
But your spellcheck ain't working,


The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

---

Actually, not so much. See my reply above for why that is.




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

---

Sure....I'll take a minus-1 for spelling and still hand this 'tard his ass. But really chrisisall, this guy is an idiot. Look at our last couple posts....He's missing my point entirely.I should know better. I have a feeling, that if this comes down to name calling, this guy will wish he never signed on..............(Kanemanhasearnedhisstripesisall)

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:
Trust me..in a world where I am forced to BUY insurance. someday something YOU want, or don't want, is going to be decided by the Gov.

---

Hear, hear!

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Actually, not so much. See my reply above for why that is.

---