REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Defcon 1 this week, expect false-flag terror attack and/or first-strike war

POSTED BY: PIRATENEWS
UPDATED: Friday, March 26, 2010 10:48
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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 11:49 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


I'm curious - who do think was ultimately reponsible for the actions of Idi Amin ?

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Silence is consent.

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 11:52 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:


Who is ultimately responsible for the actions of the United States Government ?
Gino, that's a simple question with a complicated answer.
In PART, We The People are.
BUT
We The People are led by the noses... lied to & manipulated.
The MAN does this to achieve obvious &/or clandestine ends.
The Founding Fathers could not see far enough ahead to compensate for technological advances.
The World doesn't put it's collective foot down.

All of us Gino, all of us.


The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 11:56 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I'm curious - who do think was ultimately reponsible for the actions of Idi Amin ?

See above.

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:03 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
If a government goes off its rails... its the people living under that government who pay the price for it, that is responsibility... and the price they pay for failing to rein in that gov.
I see what you're saying. But I don't see your overall point, or what you hope to accomplish.

Hundreds of thousands have died in Afghanistan and Iraq because of the actions of a few from this region on 9/11/01. The actions of the few asked for retaliation, and yet, I don't think all these thousands deserved to die. Does that make them less dead? Sadly, no. But it does affect the tone of my interaction with people in that part of the world.

I went to Kuwait in 2006, met scientists from all over the Middle East. As much as I despise the actions taken on 9/11, it didn't turn into aggression between myself and those who were just as victimized as America had been.

See, in my mind it's not just about: "Oh that's how it is." It's about trying to find a way out of it. Actively finding connections with people is part of that.

Sure, you can sit back and say: all you Americans are gonna get bombed because you pissed people off, and that's just how it is. Um - duh! How about focusing on the fight that some of us have been trying to put up. That might be a more proactive path to follow than complacently washing your hands of the whole thing.

If nothing else, the wind patterns might blow the fallout north over the border. But hey - you earned that shit by living in a country so close to the US and yet not doing a thing to make us behave better. [That was snark.]

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:06 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Who is to be held accountable ?
Ah - your words betray you, young Sky-Ginobiff-walker. This *is* about blame.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:22 PM

GINOBIFFARONI



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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:22 PM

MAL4PREZ


In fact, when Al Queda gets their nukes all squared away and sets them off in DC, NYC, and Boston, and this happens right when a nor'easter is heading up the coast and all that nastiness gets dumped onto Montreal, and you're bemoaning the loss of your beautiful city and the cancers being developed by the innocents who live there, some schmoe from Chile is gonna say:

"Well, senor, you earned this mierda. You pansy assed Canadians lived your happy, isolationist hockey-loving Molson-drinking lives right next to the messed up empire that was America, and not once did you get your shit together and do something about it. As citizens of the world, a world that is worse off because you didn't act, you brought this ruin on yourself. Stew in it amigo."

[I don't actually think this. Just showing where your logic leads.]

-----------------------------------------------
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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:23 PM

GINOBIFFARONI





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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:43 PM

GINOBIFFARONI




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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:47 PM

GINOBIFFARONI



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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:53 PM

GINOBIFFARONI



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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:53 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I think you misunderstood his answer, Gino. I believe by saying "the world doesn't put its collective foot down", he is saying that we are all, every human on earth, responsible. Correct me if I'm wrong, Chris.

That could be my answer to the question you so badly want me to answer, but it's not. Who is ultimately responsible for the actions of the US government? Those in power; the three branches of our government, pure and simple. The President, Congress and the Supreme Court. Period. The people who voted for them are responsible for their actions in part, yes, but if they, like I, voted for Barbara Boxer who fought hard against Bush, I'm not responsible for Bush's actions. I take my responsibility seriously and try to vote for the right candidate, AS FAR AS I KNOW. If the government acts against my wishes, I do everything WITHIN MY POWER to change it. If you're wanting Americans to pick up arms and go against our government by force, I reject it unilaterally. For good or ill, we ARE based on Democracy, and we do the best we can with it.

The only way to take it further is to answer as Chris has: every human being on earth is responsible for the action of every government on earth. Pure and simple: I'd rather know people for who THEY are, not what their government does.

From what you said, you hold South Africa, Britain, Israel AND Uganda responsible for Idi Amin's actions. Therefore you blame everyone in those countries, collectively, because they didn't rise up and, through guerilla warfare, make their governments stop. That seems to be the result of what you're saying.

Other than that, I'll let Mal's eloquent response stand for part of what I've been trying to say:
Quote:
See, in my mind it's not just about: "Oh that's how it is." It's about trying to find a way out of it. Actively finding connections with people is part of that.

Sure, you can sit back and say: all you Americans are gonna get bombed because you pissed people off, and that's just how it is. Um - duh! How about focusing on the fight that some of us have been trying to put up. That might be a more proactive path to follow than complacently washing your hands of the whole thing.


It's far more than that, tho'. It's about how we treat INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE. You have this need to blame every single American for what our government has done. In that case, you can't deny that you blame every single citizen of South Africa, Britain, Israel and Uganda for the deaths Idi Amin brought about.

I'm with Chris. We are all responsible for everything, if you take it to extremes. But individual people should rightfully be held responsible for their own actions, and no individual in any country is entirely responsible for the actions of their government...unless they took part in same directly or supported those who do and made no effort to change anything.

I came back to the computer to add something to another thread and checked back here. To me this has become a useless discussion; it seems as if your need to blame--and yes, it is blame--every American for everything America has ever done is so strong that you can't see past it. Most of the people here weren't even BORN when many of the things I'm sure you blame us for were done.

Your view makes you dangerous; but here, where there are no dangers except opinions, it makes you unable to debate rationally on anything having to do with the politics or actions of any government anywhere. You appear to be too blinded by your hate.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:57 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"Defcon 1 this week, expect false-flag terror attack and/or first-strike war"

Didn't PN predict the end of the world or some such ? I remember a count-down that fizzled.

Maybe we could start another one ...

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.



Several. Each one dumber than the last, and always proved as wrong.




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:57 PM

GINOBIFFARONI





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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:59 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Stuff was posted as I was typing. What I read confirms my impression totally, and more, and changes diametrically my opinion of you.
Quote:
if an army was setting up to march on Washington to seize it, and start hanging folks I would be signing up
So you DO want us to pick up arms and kill everyone in our government.

Wow. It was an understatement to say you are dangerous, also to say that your hatred makes you unable to debate rationally. You are one frightening mutherfucker and I have no idea why you want to be on this website with all these Americans, given how much you hate each and every single one of us. What an eye opener.

And A) Chris isn't the only one who answered the question, I did, in my last post, B) I still think you misunderstood Chris' answer, because until he corrects me, I still believe what he was saying was "all of us, all human beings everywhere"


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:05 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

I'm with Chris. We are all responsible for everything

"What happens in a man's life is already written. A man must move through life as his destiny wills."
"Yes, yet each man is free to live as he chooses. Though they seem opposite, both are true. I do not understand it."

This word has predator, prey, and spectators who may be blind to the hunt. When none are blind, and all educated in ways other than lies & omissions, peace will reign.
But peace is seldom profitable in the extreme.


The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:13 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Gino

You spread the blame widely for Idi Amin.

Yet you fail to see that the US people - in some ways victims of their constitution and history - get to share its blame with the corporatocracy.

The founding fathers never saw the creation of a new royalty of the ultra-wealthy.

The US is set up so that presidents and Congress can’t be removed at any time by a vote. That has lead to lack of timely accountability which is taken advantage of by the wealthy. And too the media is almost entirely owned by wealthy powerful people. Both of these have led to a rule by the elite which is every bit as powerful as rule by royalty – even more so b/c it is hidden behind layers of controllers who are behind other layers of controllers.

From the media to outright propaganda to government at the beck and call of business, US citizens are being run by people who work behind the scenes. I have met Russians who have said that in the old USSR the propaganda was crude and laughable, but who found US propaganda to be scary by contrast. It is both real and effective.

If I hadn’t lived so close to Canada and listened to (award-winning) CBC radio (international news) and compared it to what I was getting though the US media, I myself would never have even seen the constant drone. Not many people are so fortunate so as to be able to compare and contrast. One early example which stands out in my mind was daily CBC reporting of the war in Angola for many weeks – while US media was entirely silent on the topic.

So perhaps you could spread the blame a bit as you seem so willing to do for anybody and everybody else.

BTW, I’m curious what you think the people should do. It seems that even a historic vote for ‘hope and change’ was an effort in futility.


***************************************************************

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:17 PM

GINOBIFFARONI



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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:22 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
You are one frightening mutherfucker
Niki, as a fellow traveler, gotta help reel you in here.
Gino is a world patriot IMO. Sometimes harsh, but always fair- as much as reality allows.
Don't read violence into his posts that really isn't there, K?


The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:22 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
I think what bothers you here is the guilt you feel with what the folk representing you have done, and the helplessness you feel that you think you cannot change it



There's truth in that.




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:26 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

did you have more say under the British than you do now ?


Initially yes.
Now... not so much.


The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:33 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
who is ultimately responsible for the actions of the United States government ?
Bush and Cheney and many of their admin should be in court. I have no doubt about that.

So why aren't they? It's because YOU failed. I got your game now Gino. You're trying to shove off the responsibility on other folks, cause that makes you feel like you're above it all. But I know better. You want to assign blame as a way of assuring yourself that none of it is really your problem, and all the ills of the world are really due to those evil Americans. Every single one of them. Ha - I know some groups in the Middle East (or in Middle America, or out in Oregon) that would love to have you sign up.

And don't give me this definition of responsibility crap. Don't go changing the word after the fact. "Who is to be held accountable?" is what you asked. Accountable. As in: punishable. You're all about blame, pal.

The fact that you didn't pay taxes to the US govt doesn't mean squat. You live in this world, same as the rest of us. Time to step up to plate, man up, and do something about it like a bunch of us down here in the states are trying to do.

Or you can continue to sit on your ass and point your finger. If that's the kind of person you are.

I got you figured. I'm done.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:34 PM

GINOBIFFARONI



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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:36 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
You live in this world, same as the rest of us. Time to step up to plate, man up, and do something about it like a bunch of us down here in the states are trying to do.

And... there's truth in that.


The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:38 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

BTW I accept the blame in the fact my government has backed your up all this time...

See? Gino's cool.
But still, blame counts less that positive action.
Like I tell my kid, learn, don't dwell.


The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:40 PM

GINOBIFFARONI



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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:41 PM

CHRISISALL


Okay, I'm in over my head here.

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:50 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


BTW - I also think the the ICC should have a spot for the higher ups in the Bush/ Cheney administration. After all, it was formed for just such a situation - where the offending country can't or won't act to prosecute their perpetrators. If I knew how to make that happen I would be doing that too.

***************************************************************

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:53 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
You live in this world, same as the rest of us. Time to step up to plate, man up, and do something about it like a bunch of us down here in the states are trying to do.

And... there's truth in that.


The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010



Yuppers. True story.

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:57 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
If I knew how to make that happen I would be doing that too.

With ya there, Rue.


The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:58 PM

GINOBIFFARONI



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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 2:02 PM

GINOBIFFARONI



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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 2:06 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
I did not pay taxes to fund the actions of said screwed up American empire enabling it to run amok across the globe for... what sixty years now.


But your government has been in various defense organizations and signed various defense treaties with the US, from NATO on.

For example:

"In a political move that received little if any attention by the American news media, the United States and Canada entered into a military agreement on February 14, 2008, allowing the armed forces from one nation to support the armed forces of the other nation during a domestic civil emergency, even one that does not involve a cross-border crisis, according to a police commander involved in homeland security planning and implementation."
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8551

"Canadian Department of National Defence, OTTAWA: Canadian and American officials today renewed the defence transportation treaty on Integrated Lines of Communications (ILOC). Originally established in 1979, the ILOC agreement allows Canada and the United States to share military transportation resources when the operational requirements of both nations converge."
http://www.defencetalk.com/canada-and-us-renew-defence-transportation-
treaty-15172/

Damn, Gino. It's all your fault.





"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 2:10 PM

GINOBIFFARONI



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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 2:26 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
So then you want the rest of the world to step in and straighten your government out then ?
My point is: you blaming me for not controlling the insane Republicans in America is no different than me blaming you for the insane Republicans in America. You don't like fingers pointed at you? Then quite pointing them. You're exactly as helpless - or NOT helpless - as I am.

Quote:
I would love to see that... Bush and Cheney at the Hague
The things dreams are made of...

Quote:
what exactly are you trying to do anyway ?
To get you to quit sitting around blaming others. Think about it: you're doing EXACTLY what you're blaming the average American of doing. "It's all fault and not mine cause I didn't so I'll just sit here and whinge about it.

Quote:
" I know some groups in the Middle East (or in Middle America, or out in Oregon) that would love to have you sign up "
Well, you think I deserve to be bombed for what Bush did - to be *held accountable*. Why don't you go ahead and strap on the explosives?



-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 2:39 PM

MAL4PREZ


And Gino - I don't really think you're a bad guy. This gets my ire up because what you're saying sounds a lot like Bush/Cheney's creed: "Oh, so a bunch of civilians in Afghanistan got hit by those cluster bombs? Well, that's just their problem for living in a country where Bin Laden did his planning. If those woman and children want to not be held accountable and blown to bits, they should have been storming those caverns and stopping those local organizations from acting as they did."

I'll tell you straight - that fucking pisses me off, whether you're talking about America or Canada or any country in the Middle East.


-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 2:40 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:


Damn, Gino. It's all your fault.

Bonus points for the funny, Geezer.


The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:06 PM

GINOBIFFARONI



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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:15 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


I surely would like something in between countries running amok with impunity and foreign terrorists trying to 'fix' another nation with bombs. It seems to me it MUST be a false dichotomy.

Maybe if there were an international organization, sort of like an international court for criminal leaders ... maybe we could even call it something like The International Criminal Court ...

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:16 PM

GINOBIFFARONI



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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:19 PM

GINOBIFFARONI






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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:23 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Well, the ICC only came into being in 2002. Sadly, it has been busy since then with Northern Uganda, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, the Central African Republic and Darfur. (from WIKI)

***************************************************************

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:24 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
And Gino - I don't really think you're a bad guy. This gets my ire up because what you're saying sounds a lot like Bush/Cheney's creed: "Oh, so a bunch of civilians in Afghanistan got hit by those cluster bombs? Well, that's just their problem for living in a country where Bin Laden did his planning. If those woman and children want to not be held accountable and blown to bits, they should have been storming those caverns and stopping those local organizations from acting as they did."

I'll tell you straight - that fucking pisses me off, whether you're talking about America or Canada or any country in the Middle East.


-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left


There's truth in that...




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:24 PM

GINOBIFFARONI



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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:26 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I surely would like something in between countries running amok with impunity and foreign terrorists trying to 'fix' another nation with bombs. It seems to me it MUST be a false dichotomy.

Maybe if there were an international organization, sort of like an international court for criminal leaders ... maybe we could even call it something like The International Criminal Court ...

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.



Okay, NOW you're just being ridiculous. Nothing like that could EVER happen. ;)




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:27 PM

GINOBIFFARONI



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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:30 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:




The total failure of interstellar diplomacy is another thing that makes me angry




We need Kirk & Spock...


The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:32 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"Hell, even the first Gulf War would have been avoided if the UN, or OPEC, or somebody had of stepped in to mediate the Kuwait was cross border drilling into Iraq dispute... Iraq apparently asked, made complaints and was ignored


The total failure of international diplomacy is another thing that makes me angry"

You replied twice to the same post, I think.

So, the FACT that some things HAVE been redressed but not all, means it is, in your mind, a total failure.

BTW - when it came to the 'first gulf war' (mis-named in your post b/c that was the war between Iraq and Iran) The League of Arab States, whose member states no doubt had their own agendas, voted by a slim majority to support the war. It can't be put entirely on the US, the UN or any other single body.

Just as Darfur can't be blamed on the US.

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Silence is consent.

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:34 PM

GINOBIFFARONI




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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:39 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:


In this verse Spock has a frigging beard




A logical Cheney?
The mind reels.


The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

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