REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Health Care Reform PASSED!!! Now what?

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Saturday, March 27, 2010 15:07
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 12680
PAGE 5 of 6

Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:21 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Aaaaaannnnnddd....


TWO HUNDRED!


Sorry, I just thought it needed to be noted. :)

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Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:21 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Hey cool! So you're ready to return to what brought up the Brer patch thing: I was asking for *actual* numbers and facts behind your talking point.



Talking point? Fuck you.

SergeantX

"It's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah"


OK, remember what I said about conservatives getting all pissy when they aren't able to produce actual information?

Now, you're welcome to discuss the issues. You said you were ready to, right? So - are you?


-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:26 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Hey cool! So you're ready to return to what brought up the Brer patch thing: I was asking for *actual* numbers and facts behind your talking point.



Talking point? Fuck you.

SergeantX

"It's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah"


OK, remember what I said about conservatives getting all pissy when they aren't able to produce actual information?

Now, you're welcome to discuss the issues. You said you were ready to, right? So - are you?


-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left




BAM! She shoots, she scores!


Feed the bird, Mal; feed the bird.


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Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:39 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Feed the bird, Mal; feed the bird.



*snort*

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Wednesday, March 24, 2010 7:16 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


What are you two wankers going on about now.

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Friday, March 26, 2010 6:06 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Speaking of wankers, I note for the record that BDN vamoosed pretty quick once I started asking him for specifics on his "strict constitutionalist" line of reasoning. I'm still here, BDN, waiting patiently.


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:


Quote:


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
You're claiming that the Federal govt can't force people to buy insurance


I believe that was Kaneman's position. And coming from a strict constitutionalist, I see the point.



What do you define as a "strict constitutionalist"? HOW strict? In WHAT areas?

Are you bringing back slavery? Will one literally have to possess an actual printing press in order to obtain "freedom of the press"? Will you actually have to be employed by "the press" to gain those rights?

Deny women the vote? Make sure that negroes only count as 3/5ths of a regular person?

Do away with standing armies altogether? Do away with the Air Force?

Shall we all shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater with no fear of being jailed by our government?

Shall we do away with all forms of searches and questioning without warrants issued for probable cause?

Can we do away with ALL "cruel and unusual" punishments, including the death penalty, waterboarding, and other forms of torture?

How "strict" do you want to get, exactly. Please be specific. I'm waiting, patiently.

Quote:


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
- um OK. So what's been happening with autos and homes for decades?


That's the point. Do you think your ancestors ever thought they would need to tow the government line in order to provide a roof over their families head? You can start to see how pervasive it can become. What your ancestors railed against you take as status quo now.
What if the government starts limiting what you can eat or drink in the name of public good?



You mean like drinking and driving, or using methamphetamine at work, or heroin in public schools?





"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions







"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, March 26, 2010 6:18 AM

MAL4PREZ


It is amazing how they disappear.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Friday, March 26, 2010 8:39 AM

RIVERLOVE


Well that's what y'all want anyhow right? You fellers are real pips. You hate us when we're here, and you mock us when we're not. Sorry if we disappoint so much. Must be emotionally and mentally tough for you when you don't have an easy available target around to satisfy your unquenchable thirst for bloodsport against Cons. Ok there, I did give you some grounds to blast away, I guess because deep down Imma just a big ole softy.

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Friday, March 26, 2010 10:23 AM

MAL4PREZ


Riverlove - welcome back! Did you sort out what "mandate" means? And did you find those cites as to how "Pre-existing conditions are what bankrupted other programs like this in Mass and Calif. and Tenn"?


-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Friday, March 26, 2010 11:03 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Riverlove - welcome back! Did you sort out what "mandate" means? And did you find those cites as to how "Pre-existing conditions are what bankrupted other programs like this in Mass and Calif. and Tenn"?


-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left



Without a doubt the state taking on pre-existing conditions at the regular premium rate is killing Mass(i live on ct mass border and read this for two years), but i think more relavent to this thread is this little snip from the nation(down below). It seems like the biggest trouble is people are paying the fine and staying uninsured.The hospitals still have to give the freecare. That's what i'll do, i'll pay the fine and my 2 yearly dr visits and still come out ahead. multiply that by millions...this is going to break this nation further.......Read this I see this happening in the near future nation wide....

The nation,
"I wouldn't characterize the situation as dire," says Jon Kingsdale, chief executive of the Commonwealth Health Insurance Connector Authority, which administers the program. "The affordability issue has always been there." Just last Thursday Leslie Kirwan, state budget director and chair of the authority, said the program next year will cost "significantly" more than $869 million. Money counted on by the law's architects has not materialized. Lawmakers had counted on getting about $500 million to $600 million from the state's free-care pool, which paid hospitals to treat the poor. The theory was that more insured residents would mean less need for free care. But apparently people are still uninsured and need care, so that money is not available. And assessments from employers are not adequate either. Instead of requiring them to cover their workers, the law allows employers to pay $295 per employee per year to help cover the uninsured. The sum was a compromise to keep employers from fighting a mandate that would have required them to spend upwards of $9,000 a year on real insurance for each employee. The state has collected only $6 million so far. One reason: before he left office, Romney changed the rules so fewer employers would be subject


It is an older article from 2009.

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Friday, March 26, 2010 11:07 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Riverlove:


Must be emotionally and mentally tough for you when you don't have an easy available target around to satisfy your unquenchable thirst for bloodsport against Cons.




I wouldn't know. This place is such a target-rich environment, with useful idiots such as yourself, BDN, Wulfie, Rappy, "Hero", and others around. It's not like we ever have to go without easy targets!







"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, March 26, 2010 12:18 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Speaking of wankers, I note for the record that BDN vamoosed pretty quick once I started asking him for specifics on his "strict constitutionalist" line of reasoning. I'm still here, BDN, waiting patiently.


Why don't you just show me where in the constitution is the provision for universal healthcare. After all, that is the discussion at hand, not your smoke screens about sufferage or slavery.
Quote:


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
- um OK. So what's been happening with autos and homes for decades?


That's the point. Do you think your ancestors ever thought they would need to tow the government line in order to provide a roof over their families head? You can start to see how pervasive it can become. What your ancestors railed against you take as status quo now.
What if the government starts limiting what you can eat or drink in the name of public good?

You mean like drinking and driving, or using methamphetamine at work, or heroin in public schools?


Why should I bother to answer your ever changing questions? What does any of that have to do with the discussion at hand. I quite literally cannot tell you apart from Mal with all of your jokes and high fives and generally wanking each other off. I deem you not worth responding to as you are really not interested in reasoned discussion. Now tell me, does that sound vaguely familiar?
And why did you leave this thread all together for a couple of days only to return asking "where are all the righties"?

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Friday, March 26, 2010 12:21 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
It is amazing how they disappear.


You know, I was thinking the exact same thing about you. Did not realize this place ran on Kwicko/Mal time.

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Friday, March 26, 2010 12:23 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Kaneman, the point you make is EXACTLY why we should have universal healthcare, and the exact reason why I don't like THIS bill.

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Friday, March 26, 2010 12:28 PM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Kaneman, the point you make is EXACTLY why we should have universal healthcare, and the exact reason why I don't like THIS bill.



I don't like the bill period, but I'm missing how my point makes the case for healthcare...oh, universal healthcare...i see that. I'd rather have that than being told I have to buy it. Shit close some of our 130 bases around the world and we can all be covered without spending a dime...Military industral complex would never go fo it.

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Friday, March 26, 2010 12:31 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
...and generally wanking each other off...



I'd just like to point out that I said that about BDN and Kaneman first.

"NO, I mean that all of your posts and all of his posts are generally full of a bunch of wanking each other off."

But then, we all know that BDN isn't much into original thought.

High Five Kwicko!



-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Friday, March 26, 2010 12:37 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Riverlove - welcome back! Did you sort out what "mandate" means? And did you find those cites as to how "Pre-existing conditions are what bankrupted other programs like this in Mass and Calif. and Tenn"?


-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left



Without a doubt the state taking on pre-existing conditions at the regular premium rate is killing Mass(i live on ct mass border and read this for two years), but i think more relavent to this thread is this little snip from the nation(down below). It seems like the biggest trouble is people are paying the fine and staying uninsured.The hospitals still have to give the freecare. That's what i'll do, i'll pay the fine and my 2 yearly dr visits and still come out ahead. multiply that by millions...this is going to break this nation further.......Read this I see this happening in the near future nation wide....

The nation,
"I wouldn't characterize the situation as dire," says Jon Kingsdale, chief executive of the Commonwealth Health Insurance Connector Authority, which administers the program. "The affordability issue has always been there." Just last Thursday Leslie Kirwan, state budget director and chair of the authority, said the program next year will cost "significantly" more than $869 million. Money counted on by the law's architects has not materialized. Lawmakers had counted on getting about $500 million to $600 million from the state's free-care pool, which paid hospitals to treat the poor. The theory was that more insured residents would mean less need for free care. But apparently people are still uninsured and need care, so that money is not available. And assessments from employers are not adequate either. Instead of requiring them to cover their workers, the law allows employers to pay $295 per employee per year to help cover the uninsured. The sum was a compromise to keep employers from fighting a mandate that would have required them to spend upwards of $9,000 a year on real insurance for each employee. The state has collected only $6 million so far. One reason: before he left office, Romney changed the rules so fewer employers would be subject


It is an older article from 2009.

Now see, why do we have to get all over your ass just to get some sort of reference? It's really not that hard, is it?

Well, apparently it's hard to actually post a link to the article, so I can see where that last sentence was going.

And don't tell me to look it up. If you have a point to make, you need to provide the research. I'm sick of doing all your thinking for you. Wanker.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Friday, March 26, 2010 12:48 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
I'd just like to point out that I said that about BDN and Kaneman first.

"NO, I mean that all of your posts and all of his posts are generally full of a bunch of wanking each other off."

But then, we all know that BDN isn't much into original thought.

High Five Kwicko!


Ah yes, the ol' do as I say, not as I do defense. Careful Mal, your condescension is showing.

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Friday, March 26, 2010 12:48 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Speaking of wankers, I note for the record that BDN vamoosed pretty quick once I started asking him for specifics on his "strict constitutionalist" line of reasoning. I'm still here, BDN, waiting patiently.


Why don't you just show me where in the constitution is the provision for universal healthcare. After all, that is the discussion at hand, not your smoke screens about sufferage or slavery.



Right here in the Preamble:

Quote:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


I gather that's not how YOU interpret it, but certainly you'd have to admit that it CAN be interpreted in that way. After all, if you're promoting the general welfare of your people, what's more key to that than their overall health?

Quote:

Quote:


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
- um OK. So what's been happening with autos and homes for decades?


That's the point. Do you think your ancestors ever thought they would need to tow the government line in order to provide a roof over their families head? You can start to see how pervasive it can become. What your ancestors railed against you take as status quo now.
What if the government starts limiting what you can eat or drink in the name of public good?

You mean like drinking and driving, or using methamphetamine at work, or heroin in public schools?


Why should I bother to answer your ever changing questions? What does any of that have to do with the discussion at hand. I quite literally cannot tell you apart from Mal with all of your jokes and high fives and generally wanking each other off. I deem you not worth responding to as you are really not interested in reasoned discussion. Now tell me, does that sound vaguely familiar?
And why did you leave this thread all together for a couple of days only to return asking "where are all the righties"?




Because I was patiently waiting for your response, your specifics, since you seem to deem yourself a constitutional expert.

Also, I thought I'd let a suitable amount of time pass. Seems if anyone asks for a response too soon, they aren't giving you enough time, and if they give you enough time, you accuse them of going away for a few days and coming back. I tried to give you time to look up facts to bolster your views, but you brought back nothing at all, claiming that it wasn't worth your time. So I guess facts and the truth are beneath you. We all get that.

And, of course, now you claim that I'm not worthy of your expertise or any answer. Now tell me, does THAT sound vaguely familiar? I literally cannot tell you apart from Rappy what with all your sucking each other off. Quick- what's the plural form of "leftist"?


As for my "ever changing questions", I only ask questions to try to nail you down to specifics, because, like Wulfie, you will never say what you're FOR, only what you're AGAINST. When asked what you believe, it's all generalizations like "Babies cute, puppies good, evil bad, all government bad, except all cops good, all military good, unless other miltary, then bad."

You say you're against the gubmint telling you what you can do and what you can eat or drink, so I asked specific examples. You - as ever - dodged them and refused to answer.

Seems to me that you're dodging an awful lot these days.




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, March 26, 2010 12:50 PM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Riverlove - welcome back! Did you sort out what "mandate" means? And did you find those cites as to how "Pre-existing conditions are what bankrupted other programs like this in Mass and Calif. and Tenn"?


-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left



Without a doubt the state taking on pre-existing conditions at the regular premium rate is killing Mass(i live on ct mass border and read this for two years), but i think more relavent to this thread is this little snip from the nation(down below). It seems like the biggest trouble is people are paying the fine and staying uninsured.The hospitals still have to give the freecare. That's what i'll do, i'll pay the fine and my 2 yearly dr visits and still come out ahead. multiply that by millions...this is going to break this nation further.......Read this I see this happening in the near future nation wide....

The nation,
"I wouldn't characterize the situation as dire," says Jon Kingsdale, chief executive of the Commonwealth Health Insurance Connector Authority, which administers the program. "The affordability issue has always been there." Just last Thursday Leslie Kirwan, state budget director and chair of the authority, said the program next year will cost "significantly" more than $869 million. Money counted on by the law's architects has not materialized. Lawmakers had counted on getting about $500 million to $600 million from the state's free-care pool, which paid hospitals to treat the poor. The theory was that more insured residents would mean less need for free care. But apparently people are still uninsured and need care, so that money is not available. And assessments from employers are not adequate either. Instead of requiring them to cover their workers, the law allows employers to pay $295 per employee per year to help cover the uninsured. The sum was a compromise to keep employers from fighting a mandate that would have required them to spend upwards of $9,000 a year on real insurance for each employee. The state has collected only $6 million so far. One reason: before he left office, Romney changed the rules so fewer employers would be subject


It is an older article from 2009.

Now see, why do we have to get all over your ass just to get some sort of reference? It's really not that hard, is it?

Well, apparently it's hard to actually post a link to the article, so I can see where that last sentence was going.

And don't tell me to look it up. If you have a point to make, you need to provide the research. I'm sick of doing all your thinking for you. Wanker.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left



The rest of the article tells of all the other reasons healthcare is failing in those states. My point about having to buy insurance or get fined is made in this little part. It is my point that when they do these numbers they assume everyone will buy because of the fines..that is not the case in those states. What makes 'em believe its going to be like that nationwide. Bottom line is this is going to be a fiscal disaster..making social security and medicare laughable..

Here you douche,

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080407/lieberman


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Friday, March 26, 2010 1:00 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Riverlove - welcome back! Did you sort out what "mandate" means? And did you find those cites as to how "Pre-existing conditions are what bankrupted other programs like this in Mass and Calif. and Tenn"?


-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left




Isn't a Man-Date what BDN goes on with Rappy when they suck each other off?




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, March 26, 2010 1:05 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Right here in the Preamble:

Quote:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


I gather that's not how YOU interpret it, but certainly you'd have to admit that it CAN be interpreted in that way. After all, if you're promoting the general welfare of your people, what's more key to that than their overall health?


That's a reach Kwicko, even for you. Why are cigarettes and booze still legal? Why is skydiving legal? Why are fast food chains legal? Why is suntanning legal? Why is car racing legal? I could go on and on about things that do not promote the general welfare if that is your argument. Come on Kwicko, who has the ultimate say?
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Because I was patiently waiting for your response, your specifics, since you deem yourself a constitutional expert.


Quit assigning positions to me. I postulated that Kaneman was a strict constitutionalist from his/her take on the healthcare bill.
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
And, of course, now you claim that I'm not worthy of your expertise or any answer. Now tell me, does THAT sound vaguely familiar? I literally cannot tell you apart from Rappy what with all your sucking each other off. Quick- what's the plural form of "leftist"?


See my above response to Mal regarding this matter.
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
As for my "ever changing questions", I only ask questions to try to nail you down to specifics, because, like Wulfie, you will never say what you're FOR, only what you're AGAINST. When asked what you believe, it's all generalizations like "Babies cute, puppies good, evil bad, all government bad, except all cops good, all military good, unless other miltary, then bad."

You say you're against the gubmint telling you what you can do and what you can eat or drink, so I asked specific examples. You - as ever - dodged them and refused to answer.

Seems to me that you're dodging an awful lot these days.


Bullshit! You're not hear for reasoned debate, you're here to argue. We've been down this road before. I could give you the answers you're supposedly after and then you would argue about something else. You're only interested in getting the last word and trying to score points with your cadre, IMHO.

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Friday, March 26, 2010 1:07 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Isn't a Man-Date what BDN goes on with Rappy when they suck each other off?


Ah yes, another shining example of your well thought out and highly topical posts.

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Friday, March 26, 2010 1:15 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:


-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, March 26, 2010 1:26 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Right here in the Preamble:

Quote:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


I gather that's not how YOU interpret it, but certainly you'd have to admit that it CAN be interpreted in that way. After all, if you're promoting the general welfare of your people, what's more key to that than their overall health?


That's a reach Kwicko, even for you. Why are cigarettes and booze still legal? Why is skydiving legal? Why are fast food chains legal? Why is suntanning legal? Why is car racing legal? I could go on and on about things that do not promote the general welfare if that is your argument. Come on Kwicko, who has the ultimate say?



Don't many of those things come with attached "sin taxes", legal restrictions (such as those regarding age, etc.), and/or waivers of responsibility attached? Are you saying that we should start taxing people for not having health insurance, since life is a risky thing? By your examples, most risky behaviors come with added taxes, legal restrictions (are cigarettes and booze still legal for those under a certain age?), higher premiums, and the like. If all life is a risk, shouldn't we all be paying into the high-risk pool?

Quote:


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Because I was patiently waiting for your response, your specifics, since you deem yourself a constitutional expert.


Quit assigning positions to me. I postulated that Kaneman was a strict constitutionalist from his/her take on the healthcare bill.
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
And, of course, now you claim that I'm not worthy of your expertise or any answer. Now tell me, does THAT sound vaguely familiar? I literally cannot tell you apart from Rappy what with all your sucking each other off. Quick- what's the plural form of "leftist"?


See my above response to Mal regarding this matter.



Why, because you don't have an answer?

Quote:


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
As for my "ever changing questions", I only ask questions to try to nail you down to specifics, because, like Wulfie, you will never say what you're FOR, only what you're AGAINST. When asked what you believe, it's all generalizations like "Babies cute, puppies good, evil bad, all government bad, except all cops good, all military good, unless other miltary, then bad."

You say you're against the gubmint telling you what you can do and what you can eat or drink, so I asked specific examples. You - as ever - dodged them and refused to answer.

Seems to me that you're dodging an awful lot these days.


Bullshit! You're not hear for reasoned debate, you're here to argue. We've been down this road before. I could give you the answers you're supposedly after and then you would argue about something else. You're only interested in getting the last word and trying to score points with your cadre, IMHO.



Why is it you're here, then?

And talk about assigning positions to others! That's all you've ever done!




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, March 26, 2010 1:27 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Isn't a Man-Date what BDN goes on with Rappy when they suck each other off?


Ah yes, another shining example of your well thought out and highly topical posts.




Right back atchya, Skippy!




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, March 26, 2010 1:42 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
I'd just like to point out that I said that about BDN and Kaneman first.

"NO, I mean that all of your posts and all of his posts are generally full of a bunch of wanking each other off."

But then, we all know that BDN isn't much into original thought.

High Five Kwicko!


Ah yes, the ol' do as I say, not as I do defense. Careful Mal, your condescension is showing.

No, my mocking of you is showing. You're not worth much more.

Hey Kwicko:



And as soon as Rappy is done watching those Rush tapes, I'll borrow his lotion and kleenex to take care of that other part...

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Friday, March 26, 2010 1:45 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Bullshit! You're not hear for reasoned debate, you're here to argue.

As opposed to BDN, who's only here for topical stuff. Which is why it takes 5-10 posts worth of mocking to get him to post a damned reference!

BUUUUURRRRRRRRNNNNNNNNNNNN!


-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Friday, March 26, 2010 1:47 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)









"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, March 26, 2010 1:48 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Don't many of those things come with attached "sin taxes", legal restrictions (such as those regarding age, etc.), and/or waivers of responsibility attached? Are you saying that we should start taxing people for not having health insurance, since life is a risky thing? By your examples, most risky behaviors come with added taxes, legal restrictions (are cigarettes and booze still legal for those under a certain age?), higher premiums, and the like. If all life is a risk, shouldn't we all be paying into the high-risk pool?



DOUBLE BUUUURRRRRNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!


(I'll get to reading that article and replying on topic eventually. For now, it's just too damned much fun to mock. Besides, it's Friday. I'm going out!)


-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Friday, March 26, 2010 1:49 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)










"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, March 26, 2010 1:52 PM

MAL4PREZ




Ok, I really have to go...

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Friday, March 26, 2010 1:52 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Don't many of those things come with attached "sin taxes", legal restrictions (such as those regarding age, etc.), and/or waivers of responsibility attached? Are you saying that we should start taxing people for not having health insurance, since life is a risky thing? By your examples, most risky behaviors come with added taxes, legal restrictions (are cigarettes and booze still legal for those under a certain age?), higher premiums, and the like. If all life is a risk, shouldn't we all be paying into the high-risk pool?



DOUBLE BUUUURRRRRNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!


(I'll get to reading that article and replying on topic eventually. For now, it's just too damned much fun to mock. Besides, it's Friday. I'm going out!)


-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left




I was thinking about going out drinking and driving, just to show BDN that I don't want The Man telling me what I can and can't do! AND I'm canceling my auto insurance and taking my guns with me!




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, March 26, 2010 1:55 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)





Mal, have a great night!

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Friday, March 26, 2010 1:55 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
I was thinking about going out drinking and driving, just to show BDN that I don't want The Man telling me what I can and can't do! AND I'm canceling my auto insurance and taking my guns with me!





Stopping now. Really.

You too Mike.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Friday, March 26, 2010 2:02 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Don't many of those things come with attached "sin taxes", legal restrictions (such as those regarding age, etc.), and/or waivers of responsibility attached? Are you saying that we should start taxing people for not having health insurance, since life is a risky thing? By your examples, most risky behaviors come with added taxes, legal restrictions (are cigarettes and booze still legal for those under a certain age?), higher premiums, and the like. If all life is a risk, shouldn't we all be paying into the high-risk pool?


Yeah, that's right, shift the goal posts again. So you are saying that the promote the welfare clause is a catch-all for the federal government to regulate how we live our lives. How come you did not get on board with the Patriot act? Couldn't that be construed as promoting the welfare of the people?
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Why, because you don't have an answer?


Why can't I pick and choose which of your questions to answer?
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Why is it you're here, then?

And talk about assigning positions to others! That's all you've ever done!


At least I know my shit stinks.

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Friday, March 26, 2010 2:03 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Stopping now. Really.


Another vanishing act.

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Friday, March 26, 2010 2:06 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
I was thinking about going out drinking and driving, just to show BDN that I don't want The Man telling me what I can and can't do! AND I'm canceling my auto insurance and taking my guns with me!


What an overly simplistic sentiment which does not do justice to a thoughtfull topic.

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Friday, March 26, 2010 2:27 PM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Riverlove - welcome back! Did you sort out what "mandate" means? And did you find those cites as to how "Pre-existing conditions are what bankrupted other programs like this in Mass and Calif. and Tenn"?


-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left




Isn't a Man-Date what BDN goes on with Rappy when they suck each other off?




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions




Be honest. Are you drinking? You are normally a tool anyway, but go look at your and mals last ten posts on this thread...I think you are twelve....And drinking....probably together...each with a finger in the others ass....giggling and yelling bunnny and other wierd shit. Those are the gayest posts I have ever seen. Try to act like a human.

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Friday, March 26, 2010 2:48 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I'd rather have that than being told I have to buy it.
I agree with you, except technically you're not being told you HAVE to "buy it", you're not given a tax credit if you DON'T buy it. Or some such.

Personally, I think the bill is overly complex, and too mired in the healthcare-industry complex to make much sense. Which is why I keep pushing to have it removed.

As for being a "strict Constitutionalist"... I'm not, and you shouldn't be, either.

Don't forget, those first ten important ... whatchamacallits... Oh, yes... AMENDMENTS... would have never been included if the FF themselves were "strict Constitutionalists". And many good changes have been made to the Constitution since then, a point Mike was trying to make when he brought up slavery and women's right to vote.

I "get" that there are a lot of people here who really hate the idea of big government, but pointing to the Constitution just mires you in the static past. If you really want to argue against "big government", argue against BIG GOVERNMENT. What is wrong with it? Why might people want it? What if they vote it in... even amend the Constition? Would it be legit then? If not, why not? Is there a way to get the bennies without the downsides?

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Friday, March 26, 2010 4:03 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Don't many of those things come with attached "sin taxes", legal restrictions (such as those regarding age, etc.), and/or waivers of responsibility attached? Are you saying that we should start taxing people for not having health insurance, since life is a risky thing? By your examples, most risky behaviors come with added taxes, legal restrictions (are cigarettes and booze still legal for those under a certain age?), higher premiums, and the like. If all life is a risk, shouldn't we all be paying into the high-risk pool?


Yeah, that's right, shift the goal posts again. So you are saying that the promote the welfare clause is a catch-all for the federal government to regulate how we live our lives. How come you did not get on board with the Patriot act? Couldn't that be construed as promoting the welfare of the people?



Wow, you just shifted the goalposts again!

Quote:


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Why, because you don't have an answer?


Why can't I pick and choose which of your questions to answer?



Ummm... because you won't answer ANY of them?

Quote:


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Why is it you're here, then?

And talk about assigning positions to others! That's all you've ever done!


At least I know my shit stinks.



What an overly simplistic sentiment which does not do justice to a thoughtful topic. Hell, EVERYBODY knows your shit stinks. That's why we can't figure out why you've got your head so far up your ass.

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Friday, March 26, 2010 4:08 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Last post.

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Friday, March 26, 2010 4:09 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Riverlove - welcome back! Did you sort out what "mandate" means? And did you find those cites as to how "Pre-existing conditions are what bankrupted other programs like this in Mass and Calif. and Tenn"?


-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left




Isn't a Man-Date what BDN goes on with Rappy when they suck each other off?




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions




Be honest. Are you drinking? You are normally a tool anyway, but go look at your and mals last ten posts on this thread...I think you are twelve....And drinking....probably together...each with a finger in the others ass....giggling and yelling bunnny and other wierd shit. Those are the gayest posts I have ever seen. Try to act like a human.




Awwwww... Whassamatta, fuckwit? I thought you wanted to get down-n-dirty. Are you mad because I said BDN was two-timing you with Rappy? Or are you on meth again?

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Friday, March 26, 2010 4:23 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Last post.




Not quite.

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Friday, March 26, 2010 4:41 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
You're only interested in getting the last word and trying to score points with your cadre, IMHO.


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Friday, March 26, 2010 5:03 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
You're only interested in getting the last word and trying to score points with your cadre, IMHO.





Yes, you are.

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Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:30 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


QED

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Saturday, March 27, 2010 3:07 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
QED



Indeed.

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Saturday, March 27, 2010 3:17 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


It's like pulling strings on a marionette. Dance Kwicko, dance.

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Saturday, March 27, 2010 6:33 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Mike, I get that you like pulling their strings and getting into it. But good gawd, what an incredible waste of time. I guess it's that several half-wits (like I said, I'm grumpy today) are here together and it's easy to play with them, but it's a damned waste of everyone's time but yours and theirs, so why bother?

Respectfully suggest you quit playing at the children's table and wasting everyone else's time. Makes me at least not even want to reply to the few REAL posts. I thought this was "Real World Events"--the games are neither real world nor events. Bah.

Still looking for a decent, viable conversation...


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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