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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Chickens for Checkups

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Friday, April 23, 2010 10:16
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1457
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Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:40 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Another Michelle Bachman! It’s just TOO damned funny to resist:
Quote:

Conservative humor is alive and well. Harry Reid's challenger in Nevada, Sue Lowden, strikes comedy gold with her silly "livestock barter" program for doctors:

Sue Lowden (R), the leading Republican Senate candidate in Nevada, recently articulated her vision of how the American health-care system should work. At a local candidate forum, Lowden, a former state senator and chair of the Nevada Republican Party, encouraged Nevadans to "go ahead and barter with your doctor." It would, she insisted, "get get prices down in a hurry."

"I'm telling you that this works," the Republican candidate explained. "You know, before we all started having health care, in the olden days, our grandparents, they would bring a chicken to the doctor. They would say, 'I'll paint your house.' I mean, that's the old days of what people would do to get health care with your doctors. Doctors are very sympathetic people. I'm not backing down from that system."

It's a permanent credibility-killer. It's one thing to be a confused, far-right candidate. It's another to be a laughingstock.

http://www.propeller.com/story/2010/04/21/sue-lowden39s-39chicken-for-
checkups39-health-care-plan-is-cuckoo-for-cocoa-puffs-crooks-and-liars/?whovoted=allShe’s
not stepping back from it, either, according to her spokespeople:
Quote:

Lowden's Communications Director Crystal Feldman defended her argument, telling CNN, "Sue never offered to exchange livestock for health care, she merely referred to practices used in the past."

"Bartering with your doctor is not a new concept, nor is it a long term solution," added Feldman, who provided a list of news clips that lend credence to the idea.

Lowden's campaign also accused Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of fueling the criticism. Lowden could face-off against Reid in the general election, if she wins Nevada's Republican primary on June 8.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/04/22/chickens-for-checkups-
website-mocks-gop-candidate-2/?fbid=QCatxzr9QHv
Quote:

Sue Lowden has a problem: Chickens are really funny.

Lowden, the GOP front-runner to take on vulnerable Democratic Sen. Harry Reid, has all the makings of a majority leader-toppler.

A casino executive, she can tout herself as a job creator during a devastating recession. She’s also got the looks and smooth delivery of a former beauty queen – Miss New Jersey 1973! – and Las Vegas TV anchorwoman.

Picture her next to the soft-spoken and charisma-deprived Reid and the Sarah Palin comparisons are inevitable.

A sampling of Wednesday Twitter traffic revealed a multitude of possible riffs:

@StiffsGeorges: Anybody know where I can get a hold of some chickens to barter for hotel room @ Pioneer Gambling Hall [one of Lowden’s properties] in scenic Laughlin?

@KagroX: I threw a chicken in the toll basket on the Parkway other day & they looked at me like I was a GOP Sen candidate!

@JeoFree: It's even worse when they pay in rubber chickens, because those always bounce.

Even though something else will soon distract the Twitterati, the episode leaves Lowden with two giant headaches:

First, female candidates are often forced to defend their intellectual gravitas in a way their male counterparts aren’t. It’s completely unfair, but it’s also reality. The Chicken Catastrophe does nothing to bolster impressions of Lowden as a serious candidate.

Second, humorous arguments have a way of sticking.

We're now wondering: Might poultry also have the power to deflate a Senate campaign?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/04/harry-reid-sue-lowd
en-nevada-senate-2010-chickens-for-checkups.html
Quote:

Why Is She Keeping This Going? The Plum Line's Greg Sargent doesn't get it. "Sue Lowden has now tripled down on her call for Americans to barter for health care," he writes. "There's a larger political context here, and Lowden’s tripling down on the idea only ensures that the story keeps on going, potentially turning her into a national punch line. One Nevada writer describes this as her 'macaca moment.,'" when Republican Senatorial candidate George Allen sunk his otherwise certain 2006 victory by calling an Indian opposition aid "macaca."

Barter Economies Don't Work Liberal blogger Duncan "Atrios" Black gets real. "All joking aside, there's a reason we no longer have a barter economy. It's tremendously inefficient. Transactions require a 'mutual coincidence of wants,' meaning I have to have something you actually want to have in exchange for my heart surgery. Many goods are highly indivisible - can't trade half a live chicken - making precise pricing difficult."

Unless the law was changed in the last several months, "backyard chickens" are illegal here in [Philadelphia]. There is a place a few blocks away that sells live poultry, but I must find something else to barter for them. Just how many chickens should I stockpile in my medical savings account? Since I can't keep them in the backyard, I'll need to have the poultry store act as my bank.

Lowden Turned My Sarcastic Joke Into Policy Talking Points Memo Josh Marshall marvels. When Lowden first proposed bartering, "I mocked her with the headline: 'I bid three chickens for that MRI!' But I sort of figured she'd rethink that plan after her advisors sat her down for a moment and explained the concept of a cash economy or maybe if she found out what 'barter' meant. But it turns out that she was serious. Not just serious. She was actually thinking about payment in chickens too."

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/opinions/view/opinion/Puzzling-Over-GOP
-Senate-Candidates-Chicken-Based-Health-Care-Plan-3328




Okay, righties: Tell me this woman is truly a viable candidate for Reid’s seat. However much you dislike him, this woman is fast turning into a joke, and given she’s SERIOUS about it, how can you take her seriously??

Someone remarked last night that Reid knew how unpopular health reform was in Nevada, so he must have known his continuing to work toward it endangered his own seat. It took courage to keep on going to work for what he believes is right, knowing what it might cost him. We may dislike him and disagree with him on things, but in my book that DOES take guts.



"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:47 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Oh, gawd - I *loved* this story!

Allow me to present...


THE LOWDEN CO-PAY!






By the way, speaking of batshit Bachmann... Why has nobody brought up the fact that her family farm has raked in more than $250,000 in welfare via farm subsidies? She's so against socialism, the welfare state and "gangsta government" - why's she not willing to forgo that welfare handout she's shaking us all down for? Her stake in the farm has gone from $2000 per year in '96 to over $50,000 per year in 2006, a good chunk of it on YOUR dime. What's up with that?



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Thursday, April 22, 2010 9:10 AM

FREMDFIRMA



You know, since I gotta have lunch with him today on a seperate non-medical issue - I know EXACTLY where I am takin my doctor for lunch.

KFC

And imma email him this bit first, you bet!

-F

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Thursday, April 22, 2010 9:13 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, my, my sides are splitting ...you two are at fault, and between you, you owe me a new keyboard AND monitor, 'cuz I was drinking my ice tea when I clicked on your responses, so both the keyboard and monitor are showered!

It's all your fault...or should I blame Lowden for creating the joke in the first place?

But yeah, I'm about to go see the damned podiatrist again 'cuz the tendon isn't healing...should I take him a pair of chicken's feet? (Okay, so I can't compete, wouldn't want to; you guys do it so well!)


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Thursday, April 22, 2010 9:25 AM

BYTEMITE


Really wasn't presented well, this lady's argument, but I'm also seeing a lot of exaggeration.

Granted, chickens aren't a servicable modern application of the barter system, but the barter system is itself not a flawed idea. Offer a service for a service, that really is how it used to work a lot of times.

The candidate's idea is not well planned or thought out, and of course you can't jump into a barter system. Lots of doctors like money, and also big pharm and insurance aren't taking chickens, no.

But we HATE big pharm and big insurance, don't we? Some of us aren't even huge fans of paper bills or metal currency. This mockery, could it potentially be kind of a red herring for what could be a good option, if approached wisely and intelligently? Which, granted, the candidate appears to lack much of either trait.


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Thursday, April 22, 2010 9:33 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Aside from liking money, how would the doctor pay his electric bill, accountant, etc., etc., ad infinitum? The world has changed...some thing just don't work any more, nor would they.

What I see as exageration is the jokes people are making about it (and who could resist?)...Lowden stands by her remarks that a chicken or painting their house or somthing is PRECISELY what she meant!

There are certainly some situations where you can barter, I do, but not medical. I used to do typing for the therapist I was seeing in return for my therapy, and other stuff. But this (and she's not talking about "bargaining", as you can see, she stands by her idea of "barter") is just plain laughable, IMO!


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Thursday, April 22, 2010 9:38 AM

BYTEMITE


You're still looking at barter as THINGS.

In answer to your question, a doctor providing medical care for an electrician might reasonably expect the electrician to maintain the doctor's electricity at his home and office in exchange. Similar analogies as necessary.

Also, my impression is that she wasn't standing by the chicken thing, just saying that was an example of how people used to do it. And they did. My grandmother wrote about doing very similar exchanges in her memoirs.

Like I said, you couldn't jump into it right now, but it really isn't a bad idea.

I know that Frem here, for example, has a very close friendly relationship with his doctor. I've been given the impression that Frem's doctor would totally be willing to give Frem medical care in exchange for some service at a later date if Frem needed help or medicine but couldn't scrape together the cash for it.

And isn't that what we want in doctors? People who care about us, and because they care, we'd care about them?

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Thursday, April 22, 2010 10:05 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


A) This is not your grandma's time. Nothing like it. This is the real world.

B) How do you figure it could work? It would be a nightmare, IRS; hell, accountants across the country would be jumping out windows! Not to mention insurance companies. Just doesn't work...life is too complex these days.

She IS saying "things", as in chickens, and she's got a doctor backing her up who's also saying "things":
Quote:

Today, Dr. Robin Titus, a friend of Sue Lowden, sent a letter to the editor of the right-wing newspaper the Las Vegas Review-Journal in support of the barter system. Dr. Titus says in the letter that she has “bartered with patients -- for alfalfa hay, a bath tub, yard work and horse shoeing in exchange for my care.” (Dr. Robin Titus also happens to be a Republican who was also running for US Senate until she withdrew from the race earlier this year.)

Meanwhile, some Nevada Democrats wanted to see if it was possible to barter for an H1Ni flu shot at Walgreen's, but they were turned away. Still wanting to learn more about the Lowden Plan for Health Care, the Democrats showed up at Sue Lowden’s campaign Headquarters with one goat and four chickens but no one was available to talk to them other than the receptionists who was not up to speed on the Lowden Health Care Plan.

http://yodasworld.newsvine.com/_news/2010/04/22/4188800-sue-lowdens-ch
ickens-are-coming-home-to-roost-videos


Maybe her FRIEND Titus is the kind of doctor Lowden is talking about, but that it could work in towns bigger than the doctor's is ridiculous--if it even happened, which I question. After all, there's no videotape...


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Thursday, April 22, 2010 10:19 AM

BYTEMITE


Why would you ever need an accountant in the proposed setting? Why would anyone become an accountant?

Look, this appears to be an issue in seeing eye to eye, so I'm just going to walk away before you start making fun as me as well. But I find it baffling that for as much as America says it wants change, it's only small changes people want, little amendments as opposed to changing the problematic SYSTEM.

Rotting foundation, jenga tower, that thing I'm always saying about it not getting any more stable. *shrug* If no one ever looks outside the box or tries to find the root of the problems, things just aren't ever going to be fixed, no matter how much you legislate.

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Thursday, April 22, 2010 10:52 AM

MAL4PREZ


Let me see if I've got this down...

Splinter removal:


Cut requiring 1 or 2 Stitches:


Regular Checkup:


OB/GYN check-up with pap:


Concussion:


Blood transfusion:


Drug/Alcohol Rehab:


Minor Surgery:


Major Surgery:


Right?

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Thursday, April 22, 2010 11:19 AM

STORYMARK


It's fun when Politicians say stuff so stupid they'll never live it down.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, April 22, 2010 11:54 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Actually, that kinda is the agreement I have with my doc - in part cause he's paranoid as hell, being an arabic descended muslim, and smart enough to know that being a second generation american citizen is no real protection against the new crusades - and he knows being within my protected circle is a damn good defense against the kind of shit that could come his way.

FYI, Barter is classified in such a way that it comes under the jurisdiction of Dept of Agriculture, and the IRS has little, if any, over it - even if they did, you could lock them in a jurisdictional turf dispute and stonewall them while strangling both sides with their own red tape for half of forever.

Still, while it's useful to do business on a local level that way sometimes, our social systems structure makes it impossible to do on any scale because corporations will not barter, hell, strip all the BS away, it's more or less indentured servitude anyway, with the pretty paper or electronic "credit" flowin back and forth just to make it look like something else.

-F

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Thursday, April 22, 2010 12:11 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh...oh...Mike...stop!

I...I...I just can't...take...anymore...



Ooops...


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Thursday, April 22, 2010 1:46 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


'T'weren't me, Nik - I just got the first shot in, then walked away...

Remember, cool guys don't look back at the explosions they caused.








S'wenyways, I know Frem has such an arrangement with at least one of his undercover healthcare providers, and I think Byte has a very good point. It IS something to think about; hell, I wish I could trade car repair for chiropractic care, except that the former usually leads to me requiring the latter...

Thing is, it IS workable FOR SOME PEOPLE, but it isn't workable for everyone. What if your particular skillset isn't required of this or that doc? Do you just die? Do you have to get out your barter cross-referencing kit to see what you can trade to whom, and what they can in turn trade to your doc so YOU can get treated?

Unfortunately, for a great many of us, life has gotten more complex and hectic. Hell, *IF* I wanted to go to the doc, it'd damn near take an act of Congress ( I mean *ANOTHER* act of Congress. ) to get enough time off to actually do it, and that's IF I could get an appointment that would fit that schedule. So looking around for things to barter isn't exactly going to be the easy solution.

But yeah, if you can find a doc who'll take goods or services in trade, more power to ya. What if a doc wants sex in trade? Is that then prostitution? Or is it just a barter, services for treatment?

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Thursday, April 22, 2010 3:33 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I like this idea. It's light years better than ObamaCare.






Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Thursday, April 22, 2010 3:41 PM

CHRISISALL


"Broiler hens are the chickens which are routinely used for large portions or whole portions of chicken meat. Tony Moore of Joice and Hill broiler breeders was quoted as saying that chicken cancer (Marek's disease) is responsible for the excessively high losses of chickens and, despite chickens being vaccinated against it as day old chicks, mortality is increasingly significant. There is also a rapidly increasing threat from Gumboro disease, a viral cancer and, on top of this, avian leucosis a bird variety of leukaemia is now commonplace. In fact, one American report found that: 'Virtually all commercial chickens are heavily infected with leucosis virus'. However, since the tumours induced are not grossly apparent until about 20 weeks of age, the virus is not economically as important as is the Marek's disease virus, which induces tumours by 6-8 weeks of age."

http://www.vibrancyuk.com/chicken.html


Yep. Gimme some virus, baby!




The laughing Chrisisall


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Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:38 PM

CUDA77

Like woman, I am a mystery.





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Thursday, April 22, 2010 10:00 PM

AGENTROUKA


I think this is a system than can - and apparently does - work for some people on a small-scale level.

Treatments that don't go over a certain price range exchanged for services that are valuable enough from people who are well enough pay this way.


But there are so many ways I don't see it working. End-of-life care? Treatment when you are thoroughly incapacitated? What if you have no valuable skills to trade, or can' afford to do a service without payment? What if your offer to clean the doctor's house just won't cover that MRI?

Medicine is a lot more sophisticated these days, and society more complex. I understand the impulse to decomplicate things, but I don't think bartering and bargaining are solutions that will improve quality of life or quality of care for the majority of people.

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Friday, April 23, 2010 6:21 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, dear, I MUST apologize...Mal4, you're the one that had me in stitches. Duh! It truly WAS brilliant, Mal, truly.

Told Jim about this and he roared, and came up with his own idea: "How about guns? Surely they'd be worth a lot of medical treatment...and pot, and other drugs...maybe we could swap drugs for drugs, think the pharm companies would go for that?"

Good idea? Kind of like those police things where you bring in a gun and swap it for something...just think what an arsenal a doctor could build up!

Cuda, I saw that one on TV last night, it's hysterical. I can see YouTube having a BALL with this one for weeks to come!


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Friday, April 23, 2010 6:46 AM

BYTEMITE


AR: In the event that a person can't take care of themselves, and end of life care, isn't there already a significant amount of involvement from the family of the patient in caretaking and expenses? If a family wanted to see a loved one better, couldn't they offer a service?

Anyway. The counter points people have brought up are good ones, all would would have to be considered if people ever got away from the monetary system, but I think there are work-arounds.

The candidate's proposed plan would and could not work with most of her constituents current health care providers, and her casual suggestion, ignoring all the problems and details might actually be harmful if people mindlessly try it. Still, there might be some doctors that might be willing to make fair exchanges. But only on a gradual basis, seeing how medical equipment/syringes/medicine is expensive, unless self-manufactured.

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Friday, April 23, 2010 6:49 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


By the way, she's not alone; another Republican likes the idea, too:
Quote:

And all this time, you thought state Rep. Mike Bell was a kook. But he was absolutely onto something when he said people who choose not to buy health insurance can pay their medical bills with sacks of vegetables like the Mennonites do in his hillbilly district.

This idea definitely has legs. The possibilities are endless! Imagine the primo health care you could buy with a coonskin cap or possum pelt.

He actually came up with it BEFORE Lowden, so I guess he gets the credit.

I agree with the blogger who posted "Once in a great while, we get a peek at Republicans' health care ideals, but rarely do we see them articulated as candidly as Sue Lowden described them last week." Yep, the Repubs have said all along that they have their own proposals for health care...maybe she just let the cat out of the bag or something...


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Friday, April 23, 2010 6:53 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

...maybe she just let the cat out of the bag or something...


The cat in this case being a chicken. :)

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Friday, April 23, 2010 6:56 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Byte, I wouldn't make fun of you...I understand that in some cases it's possible, and has even been done. It's just that to suggest it as a viable alternative to medical care in general just HAS to give way to amusement, as you can see here and on YouTube.

If it works, it could only do so on a very small scale. One small question would be what about the IRS? How does one value a chicken as income? As to accountants, most doctors these days have accountants to sort out the complexities of their practice, and it would be the accountant's job to determine the worth of the bartered item/action; can you imagine?

It's just that as a suggestion for the whole country, it IS laughable. For small rural towns it's one thing, but she didn't caveat her statement that way, she made it sound like it was a general "health plan" for anyone. I realize she was trying to offer imaginative ways to approach health care, but I'm sorry, she made a fool of herself with that suggestion, in my opinion.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Friday, April 23, 2010 7:41 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
AR: In the event that a person can't take care of themselves, and end of life care, isn't there already a significant amount of involvement from the family of the patient in caretaking and expenses? If a family wanted to see a loved one better, couldn't they offer a service?


You know, I always hated this assumption, regarding secondary support services like disability, unemployment and welfare - which, mind you, are paid for by the tax dollars of the folk who wind up needing them, which in many cases, if they had held out in reserve instead, would have gotten them the help instead of a two year long round and round of paperwork while they struggle, starve, get worse and have their skills and employment value deteriorate to where they're stuck forever...

That automatic assumption that you even *HAVE* a family, which many don't, a lot of the kids we deal with actually get seriously upset over that assumption cause it's insulting and hurtful to them even when that is not intended.

Then there's the assumption that they might actually care, which in this sociopathic society where folks dump gramma in a hell-home because her presence interferes with their job security, where folks all but abandon their kids in order to stay afloat while the HR dept looks for an excuse to fire them for having entanglements that take away from their productivity...

Those two assumptions *hurt* people, they hurt people bad - when they've fallen and are reaching out desperately to that secondary support that they have PAID FOR all their life, that some chunk of every dollar made went to, that they believed in, and that secondary support system smacks their hand away and tells em to rely on their family, when they have none, or a "family" that shares nothing but DNA and mutual hatred, and they spiral into a lack of faith, depression, and mental illness that makes even struggling against the system to force it to hold up it's own end of the deal all but impossible...

And they wind up on the street, using drugs or alcohol to numb the pain, and then some treatment center goes and tells em to fall back on their family - can you imagine the pain of that ?

Our society and it's requirements has all but destroyed even the idea of family, and the empathy required to support one, so it's more than a bit disingenious to assume everyone has one, or that they would be supportive, when "success" or even sometimes survival in the world we have created requires turning ones back on them and abandoning them.

Not that all that was directly related, but this is a sensitive topic for me right now and it's a major problem in it's own right that no one ever seems to want to address.

There's also just how much of a grudge I have against the established medical care "system" since they tried to kill me, and I've had to fight tooth and claw on every front from legal to physical to get any care at all - and the ONLY reason I have, and can afford, a working prosthetic leg is because of the very barter-concept expressed here, were it not for my design work and willingness to serve as a prototype tester, I would be stuck in this damn chair forever.

And yet, despite the best efforts of the "system", like all systems, it's made up of people, some of whom slipped me medical supplies on the sly when it became obvious that the system was hell bent on triaging me right out of existence.

You can negotiate with people, but all a "system" understands is force - be it economic, legal, or political, and it is a system we're dealing with here, people notwithstanding.

Which is *why* you could never get something like that to work on any scale greater than local, because that system, and the systems attached to it, are designed and function in a fashion that is anethma to human interaction, seeing it as a barrier to "efficiency" (meaning profit) and so long as that is true, any plan based on human interaction is predoomed to failure.

Lemme put it in simplified terms - lets see you TRY to negotiate with the medical billing companies automated phone system, see how far ya get with that.

-Frem

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Friday, April 23, 2010 7:53 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


A big on both points, Frem.

I occasionally had the thought that, since I chose to have no children, nobody'd be around to take care of me in my old age. As time went by and I saw how people treated their parents when they got old, I became glad I DON'T have to depend on offspring to care for me. Incredibly humiliating to think of putting my life in the care of people who don't give a shit.

When I can no longer take care of myself, and my pets have all passed on ('cuz caring for pets when elderly is increasingly difficult, given we don't have the kind of programs here in Marin that they have in the City), I'll take myself outta here happily rather than be treated the way I see the elderly treated in "those places"!


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Friday, April 23, 2010 7:53 AM

BYTEMITE


Okay, that's fair. But if not family... friends? nakama? SOMEONE? Hell, the doctor themselves, just because the doctor in question is a decent human being capable of sympathy towards someone who's vulnerable/injured/dying and wants to see them more comfortable?

I mean, Frem, the kids you've rescued, that happened because someone (you) cared, and cared enough to try to help them with the trauma they'd been through. That aspect isn't a negligible influence on this topic.

I was only ever proposing this on a local scale. I'm pretty well aware that larger scale wouldn't work. Larger scale is when you get into nonsense with the corporations and manufacturers... And the IRS, though I'd be amused if their sources of income were to shut down.

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Friday, April 23, 2010 8:13 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


By the way, anyone look into her background?

Quote:

owden was President of Santa Fe Hotel and Casino and a former Executive Vice President of Sahara Hotel and Casino. Having a Nevada gaming license, she currently serves as a Member of the Board of Directors and Secretary-Treasurer of Archon Corporation, a gaming and investment company.


I'm curious. If I stay at her hotel, and run up a big gambling debt at her casino, you think she'd let me pay her in chickens?

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, April 23, 2010 10:16 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yeah, I know that one. Amusing, isn't it? That someone with an interest in a GAMBLING establishment should talk about bartering. Like they'd take anything but money.

...although, Jim's idea of guns...


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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