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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

On the topic of the dangers of illegal immigration, it appears that a film director named 'Rodriguez' has recently gone undercover to produce a documentary about the problem.

See the story here: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/movies/2010/05/06/2010-05-06_
robert_rodriguez_cuts_illegal_trailer_for_machete_to_protest_arizona_immigration.html

There is also a clip from the documentary included in the article.

The imagery is rather disturbing, so you may not want to view this at work.

--Anthony

P.S. I hope my attempts at humor do not ruin my reputation as a serious contributer.



"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Why don't you move to Arizona? I'm sure you'd like it there. I doubt your wife would, though.

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Originally posted by Storymark:
"Hero"'s from Ohio? Explains a lot.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
I hope every Hispanic law enforcement officer in Arizona shows up to demand every white protester's papers. Should be fun.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

So, when it's just a bunch of dirty, low life illegals, it's not really kidnapping ?

Is that what I'm hearing ?

Next you'll be telling us it's not " rape " if the girl is an illegal....

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Originally posted by momcarp:
Unless something directly affects people, they just don't get it.
25 years ago in CA, drywall companies started going out of business because their competitors were hiring cheap illegal labor. Then the concrete, tile, plumbing and carpentry trades were basically taken over by illegals.
The only trade I know of that hasn't been usurped by the "undocumented" is electrical, because you need to be certified, and that's next.
Don't have any idea what all these legal tradespeople are doing for work now...I guess they found work in fast food.
The ones that can still find work have taken a big pay cut to be able to compete with the illegals.
Just sayin...



Whatever works...Mom

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Originally posted by Kwicko:


The mistake you're making, Mom (can I call you "Mom"?) is that you're conflating my not going into absolute total freakout mode for not getting that there's an issue, or not caring.

Illegal immigration IS an issue. Hiring illegals IS an issue. I'm not prepared to go totally batshit over-the-top and throw out Fourth Amendment protections chasing after a tiny percentage of people who MIGHT be doing something illegal.

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The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

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So, taking my own position, that there is no problem, because I can't see a good reason why a mexican is not free to wander unannounced around the US as we are, as native americans are, just as the French are free to roam around Germany, which is far preferable than when this all happened with weapons. I suspect quite strongly that the powers that be really don't care about it either, but they do care that people are undocumented, because there are humans walking about the country off camera without their RFID chips etc.

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I am one of the citizens of Arizona, and I can tell you that it doesn't matter how bad a problem is, or how upset it makes people.

Laws that have a strong potential for abuse are not the answer.

--Anthony

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I am one of the citizens of Arizona, and I can tell you that it doesn't matter how bad a problem is, or how upset it makes people.

Laws that have a strong potential for abuse are not the answer.

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And Rap, spare us your phony indignation and your crocodile tears about the poor, abused illegals who are the "kidnap victims". You don't give two fucks about these people, as you've so often and so adequately pointed out already, so don't try to blow smoke up our asses by claiming that your concern is for them.

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Originally posted by antimason:
ok then, if the Arizona law is just simply unacceptable.. whats the solution?

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if its racist to want an orderly immigration policy... maybe the more important question should be as Americans, are we even entitled to enforce our borders and regulate immigration? can we secure the border, can we document people who are living and working here? if immigration is a 'human right'.. does this same principle apply to me, if say.. i want to pick up and move to Mexico(or anywhere else in the world)? it turns out they would be much less accepting then we have been tradionally. in other words.. i can go anywhere, for whatever reason, documented or not, and the people of that town or city or country have no say or jurisdiction? if this is the argument being made.. maybe someone should tell that to Mexico

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if we wanted to go just by precedent, does anyone recall that in times past, it was common for a culture to literally create a walled fortress around a settlement? im not advocating this, but unless someone wants to argue that such an act is implicity racist.. i think the whole discrimination accusation falls flat

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personally, i am all for unlimited, unrestricted travel!... in theory. but then again, we dont have a libertarian society where such a stance might actually be practical.

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no.. we live in an ever expanding social wellfare state. unfettered, inconsequential immigration sounds great.. until we get the bill for billions of dollars in tax payer subsidies going to foreign nationals. my family lived in s. California for awhile. you want to know what i think's unfair? my little sisters education being completely undermined and compromised by a classroom full of students whos first language was spanish.

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or spending 1 hr in the emergency room, with a busted knee, before even being seen, because illegals were using the place as a doctors office. and ya know.. i dont care if theyre Irish immigrants pouring in here... its the same result. lets not pretend that european immigrants were never a point of contention either.. this has nothing to do with 'brown people'

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but notice, its America that is unjust for wanting to create a sustainable immigration policy... nevermind that we are generous to let anybody in here.

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i never hear any criticism of the Mexican and S. American governments, that are so corrupt that people are fleeing these places by the millions. one thing being clearly demonstrated by these protests is that they arent just coming here to work. theyre here, demanding citizenship and equal access to social services.

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too bad all this energy wasnt commited to reforming the countries they have ruined(on account of their own political incompetence). the gall, to come here demanding things from Americans, when they have lacked the courage or organisation or resolve to reform the countries of their own births!

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if its not their responsibility, whos is it? why is there never any pressure placed on them? we're responsible for accepting all the worlds downtrodden.. makes me wonder where ill flee, when all the worlds refugees have come and overwhelmed the fabric of our society

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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And Rap, spare us your phony indignation and your crocodile tears about the poor, abused illegals who are the "kidnap victims". You don't give two fucks about these people, as you've so often and so adequately pointed out already, so don't try to blow smoke up our asses by claiming that your concern is for them.

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That's the best you can muster ?

I'm not the one dismissing the kidnappings and harsh treatment of an entire group of people, simply because it doesn't fit my argument - THAT'S YOUR DEPARTMENT!

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I am one of the citizens of Arizona, and I can tell you that it doesn't matter how bad a problem is, or how upset it makes people.

Laws that have a strong potential for abuse are not the answer.

--Anthony

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The majority of your fellow citizens disagree with you. They disagree that it doesn't matter how bad the problem is, as well as this law having a " strong potential " for abuse.

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"i never hear any criticism of the Mexican and S. American governments"

Hello,

I hereby criticize the Mexican and S. American governments. They are just awful.

I want to be much, much better than they are.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

If you can't compete with the illegals, that sounds like an issue with employers who are hiring illegals and should be held legally responsible

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and it sounds like you're just not doing your job well enough to set yourself apart from crews who'll do the job for less. Sometimes you have to compete by doing a BETTER job, not a cheaper one. People will still pay for quality, and if you can't make it, then as you've said, I have no sympathy. I've competed with illegals, and I've beaten them.

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And in a free market, should they NOT be allowed to compete against you for the customer's dollars? If you can't compete, isn't that YOUR problem, not theirs? Now you want to round people up because they're forcing you to work harder, while the righties say the only way to make it in America is through hard work. Aren't you really upset that these illegals are doing a better job of chasing the American Dream than you are?

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You righties confuse me. You SAY you want free trade and free market economies, then you turn around and say you can't compete in a free market against people who are willing to underbid you. If you obeyed your own beliefs, you'd fold up shop and move on to where you CAN compete, because the market where you are is obviously saturated.

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At the same time, the right in general WILL NOT support tougher sanctions on employers or tougher regulations to make it harder to hire illegals in the first place. Rather than take away their incentive to come here, you'd rather waste time and money on a never-ending quest to round them all up and try to send them home.

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