Fore! by whozit

America loves a winner!

Yeah, 1 game ,vs 7 in 7 weeks, during the midsts of a national catastrophe, during a lingering recession ( which Bush didn't have at the time )

And that wasn't even the thread you originally linked, so again, get your facts straight.

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Monday, June 21, 2010 4:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Yeah, 1 game ,vs 7 in 7 weeks, during the midsts of a national catastrophe, during a lingering recession ( which Bush didn't have at the time )

And that wasn't even the thread you originally linked, so again, get your facts straight.

OF COURSE that was a different thread, you halfwit! That was the idea, to show you that it HAS been discussed here, more than once, which you claim isn't so. I've just shown you where you yourself commented on it before, so your claim that you "never heard that" and thus aren't lying is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be just so much of your usual bullshit.

But by all means, keep shoveling it. We're all used to it by now.

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Monday, June 21, 2010 4:46 PM

America loves a winner!

I said " IF " , giving the claim the benefit of the doubt, merely for debate's sake.

Still doesn't mean I "knew", as you half wits claim.

I never claimed it hadn't been discussed, just that I didn't know it to be factually accurate. There's a big difference, between having heard of the Loch Ness Monster, and KNOWING it to be real.

Sorry you don't have the intellectual capacity to understand such matters.

Maybe if I typed in monosyllabic words..... nah, never mind.

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Monday, June 21, 2010 4:53 PM

Yeah, you'd still misspell them even if you typed monosyllabic words!

Boy, you sure do spend an inordinate amount of time avoiding facts in your daily life. "IF" this was discussed, "IF" you'd ever heard about it, "IF" you believed it... It was discussed, it was proven, you were there, and you chose to stick your fingers in your ears and your head in your ass and start loudly going "LALALALALALALALAALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

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Monday, June 21, 2010 5:02 PM

America loves a winner!

Even Einstein didn't bother to remember equations. Only little people sweat the little stuff.

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Monday, June 21, 2010 5:16 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Oh I know he puts in more than eight, but yanno I dun think he should cause going full burnout won't help none - thing is, eight straight is my minimum requirement, and as mentioned, the human factor, time with the family, downtime, etc.

I think imma ammend that to eight straight, six days a week cause a day off is kind of important to maintaining sanity, but outside of wartime, I think the prez should be a 9-to-5 thing, for the most part.

And yeah, throwing it all on him is nuts, we got all these other asshats who are every bit as responsible for unfucking this as he is, why do they get a pass ?

What we NEED, is half a million bodies and five hundred administrator/quartermaster types, to organize and coordinate, and THAT is something most of these state level politicians are actually fucking useful for - empty out a hotel and cut a deal with the owners for reimbursement out of federal disaster funding, set these guys up in the rooms as offices with the common room as the coordination and command center, and have staffers from the oval office on the ground floor to coordinate their efforts with federal agencies and the prez, as well as a couple navy and coast guard reps so those resources are close at hand.

What's rookin me the worst is that the one time these political geeks might actually be useful for something, our expectations of em are so damn low no one is willing to demand they do the job we hired em for.

Which makes it all a sick, sad little joke, doesn't it ?

-Frem

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Monday, June 21, 2010 5:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Even Einstein didn't bother to remember equations. Only little people sweat the little stuff.

Trust me, you're not Einstein.

But thanks for admitting that you're a little person.

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Monday, June 21, 2010 5:26 PM

America loves a winner!

It's funny that you got that wrong, on both accounts.

Which is exactly what one would expect, from a little person like yourself.

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Monday, June 21, 2010 5:28 PM

Frem, I still disagree. When I'm under deadline, I'm basically 12-14 hours a day, breaks when I can grab them, lunch if I'm lucky. At my previous job, it wasn't out of the ordinary for me to put in 80-90 hours a week during game week in football season. That's the cost of the job, and I knew it going in. The downtime comes later, once the crisis at hand is dealt with. On a good game day, we could sell $80,000 worth of stuff in one 12-hour shift, IF we were prepared and hustling. Contrast that with our mall stores, which in a slow month might do $12,000 for the whole month, but might do $35,000 a day between Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Toss in a couple national championship games, and you can see why I was exhausted come January!

Thing is, that was the task we had, so we had to do it. I expect at least as much from my President. If he can steal an hour to watch an episode of Firefly, more power to him. But pulling out for 8 hours or so to golf? I'm not really fine with that, at least not until this mess is capped. Once it's capped, I *MIGHT* cut him some slack to get in a quick nine, but then he needs to get back on it and get the cleanup seriously underway.

Is he going to miss out on some key moments in his kids' lives? Yup. He wanted this job, though. Sucks that his children might suffer for it, but it's what he campaigned for, and it's a job of work.

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Tuesday, June 22, 2010 3:05 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Nikki, Rappy's problem is that he wants his cake and he wants to eat it too. He wants his (oil) stocks to go up. So he wants the kind of cost-cutting that led to this disaster. But he doesn't want the disaster. So he wants the government to step in. But he doesn't want government because he doesn't want regulations and taxes. So, what DOES he want?

Mostly, he doesn't want to have to face that question! So he winds up throwing tantrums about Obama's anti-South bias (HA!) and the hero-worship that he presumes has "us" all cheering the disaster on and golf and other shit that is about as relevant as a screen door on a submarine.

And because he's not willing to do what is necessary to ensure that this doesn't happen again... including facing that question about what he REALLY wants and what he is willing to GIVE UP in order to get it... He must be pretty happy with the way things are. Otherwise, he's insane, because the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.

So Rappy... all diversion about golf aside... what DO you want?

Hey Rappy, I see that you're still focused on gulf... er, I mean GOLF.

It looks to me like you would rather see Obama FAIL than the shorelines be protected. Are you really willing to sacrifice your best intentions to the god of petty partisanship? Is it SO important to you to cleave to the "right" leader that you would give up everything .... your fond memories, your concern for others, your passion for doing the right thing... JUST to be able to say "I told you so"?

Especially when you're telling us stuff we already know???

For all the venom and attention that you're focusing on Obama, YOU worship him more than anyone else around here! So can you please unglue your mind from trivia and get back to what's real and important, parse through your conflicting requirements and figure out what you want?

That would be a big step in the right direction.

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Tuesday, June 22, 2010 3:47 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Still dodging that necessary soul-searching, Rappy?

It IS necessary, you know! At some point, one hopes you will come to a greater understanding of yourself and your expectations, and not be quite so hostage to conflicting desires and hopes.

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Tuesday, June 22, 2010 7:42 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

It's fascinating to come into this after the fact and read Crappy defending, rationalizing and eventually lying about his own lies. Just to refresh your memory:

Quote:
By the way, any cites to back up your "facts" about Obama's golf outings outnumbering Bush's? I remember Bush saying that he was giving up golf for the duration of the war, and then going on more golf outings,

Quote:
Bush was caught in the lie long ago when he said out of "respect" for those who died, he had given up golfing, when videos showed that was a lie.

That’s twice, in one post, that his lying about playing golf was talked about. Given that and the fact that he himself mentioned it, his insistence that somehow he wasn't lying about it is telling.

As has been said elsewhere, I don't give a damn whether my Prez plays golf, has dinner parties, goes out for a hamburger, or anything else. I want results; we're not getting enough of them from Obama, that's MY complaint, and that Crappy has so MUCH invested in defending his remark would be interesting, if it were the first time

If one eliminated all that's posted in this forum of personal bickering, attacking, defending, etc., along with partisan mischaracterization and downright lies, there wouldn't be much left in the way of actual debate and discussion, would there?

Given a large part of it is intended as nothing but statements to get a rise or egg someone else on, it's pretty sad.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor

To Kwicko:" You're the putrid slime which oozes between troll's toes, you're so low.” ...Raptor

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Tuesday, June 22, 2010 9:50 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM: Hey Rappy, I see that you're still focused on gulf... er, I mean GOLF.

It looks to me like you would rather see Obama FAIL than the shorelines be protected.

He's already failed. Honestly, what are you even talking about ?

Quote:
Are you really willing to sacrifice your best intentions to the god of petty partisanship? Is it SO important to you to cleave to the "right" leader that you would give up everything .... your fond memories, your concern for others, your passion for doing the right thing... JUST to be able to say "I told you so"?

Well, I did tell you so. And I also said I doubted that McCain being elected would have resulted in much difference. The whole Federal bureaucracy thing, ya see. Still, Barry did fail to suspend the Jones Act, and pretty much everything else.

Quote:

Especially when you're telling us stuff we already know???

I question what others really know.

Quote:
For all the venom and attention that you're focusing on Obama, YOU worship him more than anyone else around here! So can you please unglue your mind from trivia and get back to what's real and important, parse through your conflicting requirements and figure out what you want?

That would be a big step in the right direction.

You'd like that to happen, huh? Want me to stop reminding folks what a colossal failure this community activist is, and how bad he botched this crisis. This disaster isn't going away. The oil will be around for a very long time, and we've not yet begun to feel the impact of this on the environment, the economy.....

The teleprompter can't save him. He can't speechify himself out of this mess.

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Tuesday, June 22, 2010 1:36 PM

HKCAVALIER

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Mike,

That's pretty spot on, this is not a normal job, it's a job where we give you god like power.

I gotta stop you right there. There are so many things wrong with this notion all y'all are agreeing with, I could write a book. Fortunately for me, Sigmund Freud already did, several (cf. Totem and Taboo). You say it's not a "normal" job, I'd say it's not a real job, this job you're talking about, and it's not the Presidency of the United States.

Who says, "I gave you god-like power and you didn't deliver?" Answer: every son on the planet to his father, either in word or deed. Fathers ultimately disappoint, they can't not. Presidents are no substitution.

It's pure grandiosity to imagine that we have the power to grant anyone god-like power. Fantasy land and pure self-sabotage. We only have the power to pretend they have such power.

What we can do, and routinely do do, is give people god-like responsibility, so we can abdicate our own. You've given Obama the god-like responsibility to fix the Gulf. Never mind he can't, never mind no one on the planet may be capable of fixing the catastrophe in the Gulf, you wanna hold Obama accountable, to blame, you want him to somehow prove to you that he's working hard enough on the problem. Honestly, honestly, what the HELL would be "enough" in your eyes? If only he didn't play golf, things would be sooooo much better?

It's so dispiriting when the sharpest guys on the board talk nonsense like in this thread. Could you enumerate two of these "god like powers" of the President? I'm sure they're in the Constitution somewhere.

I'm sorry, the guy's an administrator. You get on his case for playin' golf, implying that he's closing "back-room style" deals on the golf course. Hello? That's the President's job--it's practically all behind closed doors. Are they putting the meetings he takes in the Oval Office up on CSPAN now and I didn't know about it? The public deliberative body you want is the Congress.

God exists for us to blame, to hang all our troubles on. When he/she appears to deliver, we love'm so. But when he/she fails to expedite our dreams, we get nothin' but nasty. Our god becomes our whipping boy, our scapegoat, our moral fall-guy, a god-like toilet to piss our impotence into and flush!

This crisis is not a failure of our god-like leaders. It's a failure of the human species. Our ongoing hate/hate relationship with adulthood and responsibility has just bit us in the ass on a global scale.

Every industry is fraught with the kind (though, it is to be hoped, not the degree) of cutting-corners we're seeing at BP. A lot of us here are self-employed (or trying to be). Why? Because workin' for the man is dehumanizing, erodes your moral clarity and leads you to resent your job and perform below even your own diminishing standards. Hijinks ensue.

Blame God and nothing will ever change. Blame corporate culture on the CEO's and nothing will ever change. Blame the President for a dying Gulf and nothing will ever change.

At some point we all gotta wake up and choose to be the designated adult at the party. I promise you, President Obama is the least of our problems right now.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Tuesday, June 22, 2010 2:09 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Mr. Cavalier, this was a well-written response, and it gave me pause to think.

Thank you.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews, Wulfenstar. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Tuesday, June 22, 2010 8:15 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Thank you, HK.

The power... ours.

The resonsibility... ours.

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Tuesday, June 22, 2010 8:33 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
He's already failed. Honestly, what are you even talking about ?

OBAMA has failed? Hmm...let's see... what has he failed? Did he fail to note the rubber bits of the BOP coming up with the drilling mud? Did he fail to log Halliburton's incomplete cement job? Or stop the replacement of drilling mud with seawater? Did he fail to put the Coast Guard's oil booms in place?

There are a lot of things he failed on... truly... but the logistic and technical procedures of STOPPING THE OIL FLOW...??? Not in his purview! Squarely on BP.

Quote:
Well, I did tell you so. And I also said I doubted that McCain being elected would have resulted in much difference. The whole Federal bureaucracy thing, ya see. Still, Barry did fail to suspend the Jones Act, and pretty much everything else.

Well then you either can't read or you have a shit-poor memory or you're really, really good at backwards rationalization. Because if you REALLY think about it, I doubt you name ONE enthusiastic Obama supporter on this board. In fact, I dare ya: Name one! Just one!

Quote:
I question what others really know.

You don't have to question, Rappy. Just read old posts, It will become self-evident.

Quote:
You'd like that to happen, huh? Want me to stop reminding folks what a colossal failure this community activist is, and how bad he botched this crisis. This disaster isn't going away. The oil will be around for a very long time, and we've not yet begun to feel the impact of this on the environment, the economy.....

Yes, I know, We ALL know!

But here's the thing... are you really complaining that Obama isn't doing what his disappointed, nose-holding voters wanted? Are you sure? Are you willing to join our cause in pushing Obama to greater effectiveness?
it comes down to... and the question you have not answered is... what do YOU want?

Like HK said: The power: yours. The responsibility: Yours.

Think deeply, choose wisely.

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Tuesday, June 22, 2010 11:14 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Well aware of all that, HKCav - but I doubt you meant that bit for me anyhows...

Thing is, it ain't just Obama, it's the whole feckless pack of politicians who COULD actually, for-fekkin-once, be damn useful in organising a response to this mess, Congressional, State and Local, all of em...

And we let em off the hook cause our standards are so low, we're so used to their uselessness that we EXPECT nothing of em ?

Fuck, man, then why have em ?

I just want folks to do the job they're paid for - and I do disagree with Mikey, mostly cause imma fekkin Wobbly (IWW), and believe that the line should be drawn at eight-straight, unless it's voluntary and additional compensation is offered on a per-hour basis.
(And in part cause I am sick to death of all the Detroit industries colluding to demand 90 hour weeks on a 40 hour "Salary" to get around actually payin folk for their work!)

-Frem

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Wednesday, June 23, 2010 6:01 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
What we can do, and routinely do do, is give people god-like responsibility, so we can abdicate our own. You've given Obama the god-like responsibility to fix the Gulf. Never mind he can't, never mind no one on the planet may be capable of fixing the catastrophe in the Gulf, you wanna hold Obama accountable, to blame, you want him to somehow prove to you that he's working hard enough on the problem. Honestly, honestly, what the HELL would be "enough" in your eyes? If only he didn't play golf, things would be sooooo much better?

Aside from the excellence of the entire post, HK, I think you nailed it right there. There is so much desire to blame SOMEONE for our own pain, that we reach for our ideological whipping boys. Those on the left blame Dumbya’s deregulation and pro-oil attitudes, on the right, Obama's inability to do it all, right now. What you said is totally valid, it’s natural to want to look to authority figures and blame them for whatever we feel helpless about.

It’s a cumulative thing, and there are real human beings to “blame” if we want to. The Administration isn’t Dumbya or Obama solely, nor is private enterprise the guys at the top who run the company. At the same time, both set the tone, which those under them follow.

Quote:
At some point we all gotta wake up and choose to be the designated adult at the party.

How about some suggestions as to how WE, as individuals, solve just this one problem? I don’t feel I have the power to oversee private enterprise, and I sure as hell don’t trust the government to do it for me (just a glance at MMS proves that). So what do we do? How do we act on that personal responsibility? That’s where I’m stuck.

Sig,

Quote:
I doubt you name ONE enthusiastic Obama supporter on this board

That will never get through. He NEEDS enemies he can attack, so we HAVE to believe Obama is our “savior” to give him an enemy, a focus for his hate. Good luck getting that one, or the concept that any on the left can have disagreements with anything Democrats ever do, through to any of our RWAs here.

By the way, Frem nailed it pretty well, in my opinion:

Quote:
Thing is, it ain't just Obama, it's the whole feckless pack of politicians who COULD actually, for-fekkin-once, be damn useful in organising a response to this mess, Congressional, State and Local, all of em...

That's one reason I was glad to see that county tell the government to stay off their beaches, that they'd take care of it themselves. Shows individual responsibility being taken in the best possible way, far as I'm concerned.

Katrina and the Gulf is where government SHOULD help; it never does enough, it never does it fast enough, and it gets hung up in red tape. But on other things where we can't get out there and do it ourselves like that county, I don't know what we can do except make our voices heard and vote for whichever candidate we think will do the better job.

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Wednesday, June 23, 2010 7:25 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM: OBAMA has failed? Hmm...let's see...

He failed to act quickly, as has been well covered and documented.

Quote:

There are a lot of things he failed on... truly... but the logistic and technical procedures of STOPPING THE OIL FLOW...??? Not in his purview!

Never said it was.

Quote:
But here's the thing... are you really complaining that Obama isn't doing what his disappointed, nose-holding voters wanted? Are you sure? Are you willing to join our cause in pushing Obama to greater effectiveness?
it comes down to... and the question you have not answered is... what do YOU want?

I want to save the Gulf. I wanted competent leadership to do what ever could be done, instead of stopping barges in port for fire extinguisher inspections. I want the dredging to not be stopped by Interior Dept, who fails to comprehend that if the oil isn't stopped, the matter of saving ANYTHING will be moot. Sand will come down the Mississippi river, always, so it's going to be replaced. But if the oil finds its way in, and plant life dies, and then there goes the entire marsh. Dead plants don't sustain wild life , and dead roots don't hold onto silt for too long.

We have morons running the show.

If Obama had acted bravely, quickly and listened to local leaders, he could have at least shown the Gulf area that he's doing what he can. (claims by him to the contrary are flat out absurd ) He could be benefiting from a bounce, and with that, he could be getting approval ( as much as I'd be opposed to it ) for the horrific Cap / Tax energy plan.

That's what COULD have happened, had Barry been able to show any level of competent leadership.

He has none. He's a *"ruler", not a leader, after all.

In honor of Serenity Day. June 23

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Wednesday, June 23, 2010 7:43 AM

Quote:
The teleprompter can't save him. He can't speechify himself out of this mess.

Maybe if he put up a big "Mission Accomplished!" banner, that would help...

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Wednesday, June 23, 2010 7:46 AM

America loves a winner!

If he actually DID accomplish anything, I'd have no problem with that.

The problem for Barry is , what to put up on a banner and hold it up across the entire Gulf...

In honor of Serenity Day. June 23

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Wednesday, June 23, 2010 7:56 AM

Hell, just put up a banner and announce that major cleanup operations in the Gulf are over. You righties tend to just eat that shit right up! To this day, you STILL believe Dubya actually accomplished something in Iraq!

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Wednesday, June 23, 2010 8:16 AM