A point for team nature by dreamtrove

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

A point for team nature

POSTED BY: DREAMTROVE
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 6, 2010 08:15
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VIEWED: 2438
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Saturday, July 3, 2010 2:33 PM

Okay, I just said a couple days ago I thought gayness was nurture. I could be wrong:

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/07/02/the-anti-lesbian-drug.html

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Saturday, July 3, 2010 9:11 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

It's possible that you might be able to die of a heart attack, or liver disease, or being run over by a car...

Not merely by one of these, but all of these.

The human need to identify the singular truth of things is one of the pursuits we'll have to outgrow if we are going to be able to move forward as a society, I think.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews, Wulfenstar. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Saturday, July 3, 2010 10:03 PM

RIVERDANCER

Gayness isn't any more nurture than straightness is. Either who you find attractive is dictated by your upbringing or it isn't. It can't be one way for one thing and the other for another thing. That's logic.

HRWATPWRTCITG

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Saturday, July 3, 2010 10:21 PM

TRAVELER

If this does not produce the right effect they will find some form of brain surgery like an lobotomy that get your child on the right track.

I think every doctor should be made to read Mary Shelley's Frankenstein before playing as a god.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Sunday, July 4, 2010 12:34 AM

CITIZEN

hasn't the gene responsible been tracked down?

--------------------------------------------------

If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices. The scary part is that if you play it forwards it installs Windows.

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Sunday, July 4, 2010 2:25 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Kinda random weird coincidence, but I was watching X-Men: Last Stand again, and the obvious message of conformity and the ability to "fix" people, made me think of this very topic.

Then I read this story.

The double edge blade of science and knowledge never ceases to amaze. We can do so much good for people who truly need and benefit from ground breaking advances and discoveries, but then we don't seem to be able to stop there. From all the implants, injections for this and that " condition ", meant to improve ourselves. I tend to think that, on the whole, evolution has given us a pretty damn good hand to play with. Why go mess with it for the sake of vanity, or worse ?

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Sunday, July 4, 2010 2:27 AM

DREAMTROVE

Thought a sic fi crowd might have more fun with it

Son, take your anti-gays before you go out and play with the boys.

Oh no, the kids at school are passing around gaymakers!

Sir, the enemy has developed a gay virus.

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Sunday, July 4, 2010 2:35 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

DT, you *DID* know that the Pentagon proposed research into developing a "gay bomb", right? Seriously. The idea being that massive release of pheromones would drive the enemy crazy with lust, and instead of fighting, they'd all be busy fucking anything and everything that moved, including each other.

You simply cannot make this stuff up.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Sunday, July 4, 2010 2:37 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Thought a sic fi crowd might have more fun with it

Son, take your anti-gays before you go out and play with the boys.

Oh no, the kids at school are passing around gaymakers!

Sir, the enemy has developed a gay virus.

Well, the military is already developing a gay- weapon. And I mean REALLY gay!

Wednesday, February 02, 2005
By Kelley Beaucar Vlahos

WASHINGTON — Those who complain the military should make love, not war, may be happy to know that on at least one occasion, military scientists were searching for ways to break down the enemy with aching desire.

Now known as the "sex bomb," or in saucier headlines, the "gay bomb," scientists considered developing a chemical weapon with aphrodisiac qualities that would make enemy soldiers hopelessly, physically attractive to one another so as to paralyze their ranks and destroy morale.

The plan was unearthed by a government watchdog group that said it was just the tip of the iceberg of covert chemical and biological programs in the U.S military.

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Sunday, July 4, 2010 4:18 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
hasn't the gene responsible been tracked down?

--------------------------------------------------

If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices. The scary part is that if you play it forwards it installs Windows.

Here's something they've identified in gay men (Anthony you may want to look away now):

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/200906/could-homos
exual-genes-be-naturally-selected

The theory that goes with the identified gene is that it is something that naturally selects - because that same gene that causes homosexuality in males causes greater sex drives in female relatives, and more offspring overall. As the article says:

"...a gene that is harmful to male reproduction can be retained by natural selection if it provides advantages to females. Indeed, if the reproductive benefit to females is greater than the cost to males, then lineages having the sex-linked gene will out-reproduce those lacking it based on simple arithmetic."

But I've heard other proposed causes as well:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199605/sex-id-brotherly-love

An immune reaction of the mother in the womb, against male-only proteins - and thus a femininisation of the male foetus' brain.

Heads should roll

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Sunday, July 4, 2010 4:29 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I think it will be found that all creatures have a natural inclination one way or the other. And also that the natural inclination can be reversed due to external factors such as chemical interference and psychological trauma.

In short, I don't think it's nature vs. nurture. It's both, and trying to identify a singular truth in the matter is simply closing one's eyes to the full scope of possibility.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews, Wulfenstar. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Sunday, July 4, 2010 4:33 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

"Preventing Homosexuality (and Uppity Women) in the Womb..."
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/07/02/the-anti-lesbian-drug.html

That explains Nokovich12.

This proves that synthetic hormones added to plastics, foods and beverages manufacture homosexual freaks, on purpose. BPA plastic is used in milk jugs, baby bottles, water bottles, beer cans, soup cans, and contains female estrogen hormone. Cow juice and meats contain male steroid hormones. Only God and Satan know what GMO Frankenfoods really do, besides containing the HIV AIDS virus.

This destroys babies in the womb and kids in their adolescent years, and keeps them destroyed as adults.

THIS IS WAR.

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Sunday, July 4, 2010 6:48 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Kinda random weird coincidence, but I was watching X-Men: Last Stand again, and the obvious message of conformity and the ability to "fix" people, made me think of this very topic.

Then I read this story.

The double edge blade of science and knowledge never ceases to amaze. We can do so much good for people who truly need and benefit from ground breaking advances and discoveries, but then we don't seem to be able to stop there. From all the implants, injections for this and that " condition ", meant to improve ourselves. I tend to think that, on the whole, evolution has given us a pretty damn good hand to play with. Why go mess with it for the sake of vanity, or worse ?

That's like, apocalyptic, right there - to hear my own philosophy from you, dude...

Funny how that goes - either of us would prolly gladly turf each other, but neither would EVER wanna "fix" the other and deprive them of the honest choice to be the sumbitch we are, cause that is, to both of us, WORSE.

A teensy bit of common ground, amongst the scorched earth of our legion of disagreements, that.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Sunday, July 4, 2010 6:54 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
I tend to think that, on the whole, evolution has given us a pretty damn good hand to play with. Why go mess with it for the sake of vanity, or worse ?

Well said. It's playing God imv.

Heads should roll

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Sunday, July 4, 2010 7:14 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"Gayness isn't any more nurture than straightness is. Either who you find attractive is dictated by your upbringing or it isn't. It can't be one way for one thing and the other for another thing. That's logic."

Hello,

It is possible to nurture the nature right out of someone. You can psychologically damage someone to the point that all their natural impulses scare them like hissing snakes, and only the alien unwanted seems like a safe and desirable haven.

You can absolutely, positively 'nurture' people to become inverse shadows of themselves.

I believe the clandestine services have or had entire projects devoted to the process of destroying people and rebuilding them in a desired image.

So... yes, I believe that it's not all of one or the other. Genes matter. Chemistry matters. Life matters. It all matters.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews, Wulfenstar. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Sunday, July 4, 2010 8:30 AM

RIVERDANCER

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
You can psychologically damage someone to the point that all their natural impulses scare them like hissing snakes, and only the alien unwanted seems like a safe and desirable haven.

But then that wouldn't really be "who you are attracted to" now would it?
I won't say that there isn't anyone who is traumatized into going against their nature, I think it's possible. I also know a man who was abused and traumatized by his mother for years in his childhood, and still likes women. I know a woman who was serial raped in her early teens, and she still dates men, as well as a few women. I know them through my work with SAVA, along with several others. None of the victims I've worked with have said they can't stand to follow their natural impulses any longer. A few of the women have gone from the mildest inclination towards bisexuality to dating only women for awhile, but the inclination was there in the first place. Many of them, who have no such inclinations, continue to date men once they have healed sufficiently. They require a very understanding man. Just as the man I mentioned earlier requires an understanding woman. These people get a few extra boundaries that can't always be got past. Some of them suffer from PTSD and have nightmarish flashbacks. It's hard for them, but I've never seen the 'alien unwanted' win out over their biology. Not discounting that it might happen in some cases, but I have never seen it.
I, personally, have a girlfriend. She is my girlfriend because I find her attractive and desirable, and the feeling seems to be mutual. Nothing made me prefer women, I just prefer them. I find them beautiful and sexy, and I have for as long as I've noticed such things. I grew up with loving heterosexual parents who set an excellent example for me, and I still didn't follow it; except for the loving part.

I've never heard anyone say that someone is a heterosexual because they've been traumatized. It's unfair for such things to be said about one inclination when it's never said about the other. Hence: Gayness isn't any more nurture than straightness is. If you're going to say that something applies, it needs to be applied evenly, that's all.
Also I do happen to believe that who someone is genuinely attracted to is inborn.

HRWATPWRTCITG

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Sunday, July 4, 2010 8:51 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Gee, thanx, PN...given your obsession about sex, your insanity and your homophobia, that you single me out is a downright compliment. Scared much, are we?

I'm sure nobody else will agree with my theory, but I believe that we originally needed to be attracted to the opposite sex because we were primitive creatures, like all creatures.

I believe that if we were ever to actually EVOLVE (gawd forbid) far enough, we'd find that anyone can be attracted to anyone else, because of the qualities of that person, not because they are of the same or opposite sex. We no longer NEED the structure for procreation, so why have it? Will never happen, given the pressures of society, just as evolving beyond war, jealousy, nationalism, selfishness, etc. will never happen. Strange little species, we are...that we consider ourselves so much "better" than animals, while portraying exactly the same primitive attributes...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

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Sunday, July 4, 2010 1:03 PM

DREAMTROVE

Rap

Well said

KPO

Fascinating. So if one gene makes more healthy or more reproductive females, it can reduce the male reproduction, which will be picked up by other males, which if you think about it, could be the sort of evolutionary train that creates a division like we see with ants.

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Sunday, July 4, 2010 11:18 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"I've never heard anyone say that someone is a heterosexual because they've been traumatized."

Hello,

I have. I've seen homosexuals bullied and reprogrammed into leading a heterosexual life. People turned 180 degrees from their natural self because of external pressure.

It's sad to see someone badgered, harassed, and psychologically altered into going against their nature, but it does happen.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews, Wulfenstar. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Sunday, July 4, 2010 11:44 PM

AGENTROUKA

Anthony,

going against one's nature doesn't alter one's nature. It merely alters one's behavior. Homosexuals do not become heterosexual because of trauma, they merely act heterosexual to fit a mold.

I do think that much of what we are attracted to is nurture, but I do think target gender is encoded - or at the very chemically fixed within the womb, and thus not alterable.

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Monday, July 5, 2010 5:07 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Fascinating. So if one gene makes more healthy or more reproductive females, it can reduce the male reproduction, which will be picked up by other males, which if you think about it, could be the sort of evolutionary train that creates a division like we see with ants.

Wow, I never took it that far! Quite speculative but yes very interesting...

Heads should roll

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Tuesday, July 6, 2010 4:43 AM

BYTEMITE

@Kpo and DT: I'm not sure ants are the likely end scenario here. You might end up with a high number of female breeders, and a high number of males who don't reproduce, but this to me seems to be limited by human reproduction rates and the number of still breeding males in the population. With a nine month gestation, time and resources required for child rearing, and generally one offspring at a time, the benefits of an altruism-breeder-homosexuality, while useful on a small scale, must eventually drop off on a population wide scale.

Horray, now we have to worry about "good genes" and "good chemistry" interests.

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Tuesday, July 6, 2010 4:52 AM

DREAMTROVE

Byte,

Interesting. I suppose humans are limited by their food supply, but populations will compete against each other. Whatever is most evolutionarily successful will undoubtedly take over eventually, but first, political manipulation will try to promote whatever model inherited the power of the politically manipulated eugenics against whatever manipulation of science will probably come next.

Which is not to say ants, but some radical change is possible, even an all fertile female population, or a mostly male population, or whatever. Human reproduction rates are also being changed by science, in an up fashion (see Quiverfull Christians) and in a down fashion by policy (ZPG)

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Tuesday, July 6, 2010 5:21 AM