I hear so much "patriotic" exhortation of "our men in battle" from politicians, yet where are they when those men and women come home? Nowhere...well, r..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

After war, young soldiers come home to fight unemployment

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Thursday, July 8, 2010 10:11
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Wednesday, July 7, 2010 9:53 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I hear so much "patriotic" exhortation of "our men in battle" from politicians, yet where are they when those men and women come home? Nowhere...well, rather, lining their OWN pockets and to hell with everyone else. Where are their patriotic speechifications then?
Quote:

After Brooks Douan finished serving in Iraq for the Marine Reserves, he returned home in October 2008 to battle something many civilians had already been fighting: unemployment.

To survive, the 24-year-old took temporary jobs in his home state of South Carolina. He donned a pumpkin costume during Halloween for extra cash. He took a temporary gig as a photographer, but he was let go shortly. The economy was to blame, the studio owners told him.

When Douan eagerly signed up for the military in high school, recruiters told him veterans were coveted hires in the civilian workplace, targeted by employers for their hard work ethic and discipline. Now, in the toughest economic times since the Great Depression, Douan is finding veterans are not immune to the woes of the economy.

"I thought it would be easier for me to find work because people would be like, 'Oh you're a veteran, you served your country,' " he said. "But now, I don't think it makes one bit of a difference."

.....

Daniel Hutchison, 28, loves building homes.

"I always enjoyed working with my hands," he explained.

During the housing boom before the recession came, he worked 60 hours a week. Sometimes, he had to turn down jobs because he was so busy. The money was good, he says.

But when Hutchison returned from Iraq in December 2008 after working as a emergency medical technician in the Army National Guard, he applied for dozens of jobs without any luck. He's not alone. About 10 percent of veterans from 25 to 34 are unemployed, the BLS reported.

"We have made our members of National Guard third-class citizens," Daywalt said. "We want them to fight for the country, and yet we make it impossible for them to get good jobs."

.....

Some military experts say they believe some companies are reluctant to hire people in the National Guard or Army Reserve because they may leave for duty again. Companies cannot afford those kinds of abrupt changes in an economic downturn, experts say. The Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act was passed in 1994 to ensure that soldiers would have their jobs when they returned, but some employers have found loopholes around the law, these experts say.

.....

After 15 months in Iraq, Shane Hornbeck, 24, of Portland, Oregon was shot by a sniper. He is decorated with a Purple Heart. But none of that matters in the job search, he says.

Like many soldiers trying to secure a job, he is having trouble translating some of his military skills into the civilian workplace.

He's been unemployed since 2008. He suffers from post traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury.

"A lot of people think TBI (traumatic brain injury) and as soon as they hear that, they think I'm broken," Hornbeck said.

One disadvantage soldiers have in the job search is the stigma surrounding highly publicized conditions such as PTSD, says Morten G. Ender, a professor of sociology at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point.

In other words, they're useful for inciting the crowd when talked about, but once home, eh, not so much...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off



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Wednesday, July 7, 2010 1:44 PM

FREMDFIRMA



This is gonna sound immensely cruel, but...

Once you sign up to man the guns of tyranny, why should I respect you ?

Firstoff, there's that they are willing to kill people they don't even know on someone elses orders, that's a black mark in my book right there, plus many of them have serious, SERIOUS, racism-intolerance issues, which don't get any better after exchanging bullets over it, and frankly they seem to have some kind of damn entitlement complex which I feel utterly no desire to feed into given the undeniable evidence of how destructive that sort of social classism is - especially here where we are all but at war with the badge bearing horde.

PLUS there's the possibility that some day us civvies will be staring down their gun barrels, and the 82nd Airborne, the army's premier unit, showed the true colors of the US Armed Forces when they gleefully obeyed illegal orders to disarm american citizens and leave them to the mercy of the roving looters they couldn't be bothered to do jack shit about, on top of having an active military unit of rotating personnel assigned to handle "US" if we get too uppity, and a conspicous presence at civil disobedience events recently with stuff like the ADS, all aimed.. at us.

Fuck em, let em starve - let them learn a LESSON in what the goddamn consequences are for taking orders from the powers that be, let them learn, finally, that all those promises are lies, let them learn that the populace they will some day be deployed to control maybe doesn't like that frikkin idea very much.

I'm sorry if that sounds cruel, but how much respect do you think I feel for some punk kid who got wound up by bullshit promises of gettin paid to kill "ragheads" and "hajis" and slaughter them infidels and hoo-rah and all that merry shit, and then has the nerve to bitch that he's not treated like a king for being a volunteer jackboot and getting paid to either murder people he doesn't even know, or in some way support those who do ?

Why SHOULD we respect that, I ask you ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, July 7, 2010 1:52 PM

BYTEMITE


Interesting.

I think you bring up some good points, but in this light I wonder what you think of Mal and Zoe.

But then, they kind of came away from the war learning all of that was a bunch of crock. Maybe some soldiers are respectable if they hold on to their humanity (or relearn or regain it).

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Wednesday, July 7, 2010 2:31 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Some are, Byte - I do have a couple on the staff, but in our interview process military experience is a -50, as is police experience and hitting -100 means they're shown the door immediately.

That's not just personal bias, as much as it is that military training instills all the WRONG reflexes and procedures for the type of security we do, and most former military personnel are pyschologically unstable and often a legal liability just waiting to happen.

But then, I got a former enlisted guy who's right good at the job both individually and in a supervisory role, and a former motor pool drone who's just damn perfect for a posting that needs the occasional mechanical hand - and even found a post for the good hearted but not real bright former marine - his SOLE job is to make the gate impassible to anyone without proper identification, and him being a bit of a dimbulb prevents him from getting bored or distracted easily, and raises the difficulty of trying to fast talk him to where it's all but pointless.

But most of em, hell no - I'd rather hire friggin Wulfie, yanno ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, July 7, 2010 2:33 PM

DREAMTROVE


I don't have anything against them. I think that it's a life decision made by kids. Most think that it will make life easier for them. My sister calls it "Mommie military." The kids are leaving highschool and don't have an easy out. Here's a chance to hang tough with the boys and maybe get your college paid for etc. People I've known who go into it are usually normal people with limited options, thought they're not always poor. Sometimes it's what's expected.

Here's the difference: People who join are not making a career out of jackbooting. They are almost always told a fishtale about what they will be doing once they're in. They all believe it, because they want to, and they have limited options, and if they didn't believe it, they wouldn't join. This is why the media loved Pat Tilman. He had more options, and chose the military. That's rare.

Hopefully, they come home again. But as with the jackboots, I say it aint the guy with the gun that's the problem. I suspect now most of our casualties in war are caused by bombs. But the agenda is set higher up.

If someone comes home without a job, they get a lot of breaks, bonus points on the Civil Service test, the GI bill. Frankly, most of them don't take advantage of it, many have stacked up some drug problems, and then tend to sink their own boat. My sister has dealt with about 10,000 of them. As she puts it "Some have fallen off the boat, and need help to get back on; some have jumped off the boat, and will do it again as soon as they're back on board; and some can't find their boat with both hands."

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Wednesday, July 7, 2010 2:46 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I think veterans have been challenged to make lives for themselves in civilian service since Rome was a Republic. It has always been the case that killing, raping, and looting had few civilian applications. Our modern army has less raping, but no less a series of specialist skills that either do not translate well to civilian service, or are not needed in the vast numbers present in the army/navy/air force. Just how many Sonar Operators and Fire Control officers do most cities find cause to employ? Is Tank Driving an in-demand skill? What about Artillerymen or Parachutists?

Promises of free schooling tempt many into the service, but it's a given that most will need a job while they go to a college or technical school, and there's no guarantee of finding a good job once they're out of it.

The truth is, the best bet for many soldiers in the current economic climate is to keep on soldiering. This was true in the old Roman army as well, with soldiers sometimes serving into their 40's or 50's, a remarkable age considering the hardships inherent in that epoch.

I do not disrespect our soldiers, nor do I assume they are all cheerfully busy about the business of murdering and oppressing people. I rather think most of them are simply doing a job - often a difficult and thankless job - because it was the best job they had available to them at the time. The murdering and oppressing is peripheral and often not active in the consciousness of the average military employee. There is seduction in the term 'duty.' That seduction, coupled with the prospect of steady employment with some kind of benefits, is often enough to get the average fellow to sign on the dotted line.

I certainly am not prepared to mentally or emotionally crucify them for it. Were I a stronger fellow of greater constitution or poorer prospects, I might have easily found myself enrolled in one of the military branches, peripherally oppressing and murdering the multitudes while finding pride in my paycheck and my duty.

Many who serve the 'Blind God' do so Blindly themselves, and Incidentally too, without realization or intentional effort in that direction.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews, Wulfenstar. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Thursday, July 8, 2010 1:15 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Anthony, I am well aware of all that, remember, I put in some time as part of the green horde myself, only I had some pretty nefarious reasons going in, and those changed as the appaling nature of of the cult of the army came clear to me, finally reaching a breakpoint when I was pointedly asked if I would fire on american citizens who refused to be disarmed, with the full knowledge that my military "career" was on the line in regards to my answer.

That was actually one of the primary sparks that lit the fuse and caused me to take the course I have, one of those moments where you can actually see your own decisions change the whole course of your future - and I got not one damn regret about it.

Because of that, no matter what siren song they were sung, they took the money, they did the job, and my forgiveness and tolerance does have it's limits - I see these pleas, and am firmly reminded of how, when the consequences of his own actions fall on him in a heap, a criminal will also express regret and shame - AFTER the fact, and only when the true consequences come back to haunt them.

Besides, for a lot of them, there's really nothin I could do to em worse than what their own experiences will do to em, in the wee hours of the night when all your sins come to visit, in the dark, when you must stare into the face of who you truly are, alone.

Compassion I got in plenty, but mercy ?
None.

And so long as the "gun" of the US Armed Forces remains potentially pointed at us, it's so-called protectees, be damned if imma polish it.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, July 8, 2010 7:08 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I'm with DT insofar as
Quote:

I don't have anything against them. I think that it's a life decision made by kids. Most think that it will make life easier for them. My sister calls it "Mommie military." The kids are leaving highschool and don't have an easy out.
But you left out those who have few other options in life who go into the military because it is a steady paycheck, available, and "promise" a chance at an education. Which, by the way, make up the majority of our armed forces, if what I read is true.

I feel for them. Some are certainly as Frem describes, but to say all are is, to me, a sweeping statement. They're humans, some bad, some good, most in between. They were certainly sold a bill of goods, but that doesn't make them all hard-hearted killers.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


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Thursday, July 8, 2010 10:11 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Never said they all were, but until I know different of em as an individual, I have to assume they hold the "values" of the folk who's colors they happen to be flying, yes ?

I mean, if a Crip, Blood, or other gang member came up to you in full colors, you'd be a bit leery of em till they proved out they weren't about to do somethin horrible to you, wouldn't you ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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