Whaddya think?[quote]Mel Gibson is currently the schadenfreude special at the all-you-can-eat buffet that is the Internet tabloid world. Alleged audiotap..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Ahhh, poor Mel...

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Monday, July 19, 2010 11:33
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Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:02 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Whaddya think?
Quote:

Mel Gibson is currently the schadenfreude special at the all-you-can-eat buffet that is the Internet tabloid world. Alleged audiotapes of his contretemps with ex-girlfriend and babymama Oksana Grigorieva are being released by RadarOnline.com at about the same frequency that nurses give out meds in a psych ward, except with the opposite effect: they've made the Internet go nuts. Jokesters quickly spliced the Gibson rants together with tapes of an enraged Christian Bale; inscribed some of the choicest phrases over pictures of kittens and started a Twitter feed called MelGibsons_rage that tweets random offensive bile at other twitter users.

Perhaps the tapes have inspired so much mockery because the ugliness they contain is very hard to contemplate straight-on. Gibson, panting as if he's either calling from a hill on the Tour De France or having panic attack, is excessively vulgar and makes nutty physical threats. The language is so bizarrely repulsive — a David Mametesque fusillade of F-bombs and c-words, punctuated by racist and sexist insults — as to be almost comical. But there's also a weird familiarity to the star's fury. It's reminiscent of the turmoil that can be seen among acquaintances and family members, or even from strangers on cell phones in the street, as a relationship reaches its breaking point. If we strip away the potty-mouthiness, is Mel Gibson not all that different from the rest of us?


TIME asked marital counselors whether Gibson's behavior was the kind of insanity that required medical or law-enforcement intervention or just a Hollywood-sized version of the behavior often seen at the breakup of an epically bad relationship. The most consistent answer we got, apart from regret at having to hear the tapes, was that Gibson needs help with issues that had clearly been building for a long time. But not all the therapists agreed on how far beyond the pale his behavior really was.

"I've witnessed thousand of arguments at this point and in my opinion this is not typical," says Sharon Rivkin, psychotherapist who specializes in arguments and affairs and is author of last year's Breaking the Argument Cycle. "I think he's got some very serious psychological problems. I think he's dangerous at this point. This goes beyond just a bad relationship. Even if he's been drinking, that's too much."


But Michele Weiner-Davis, a psychotherapist and author of Divorce-Busting, says Gibson's ex is not handling the situation in the best possible way. "Mel's being despicable and she's letting it go on. The first time he said 'F___ this you c___,' she should have ended the call and laid down some boundaries." Not that she's blaming Grigorieva. "I'll bet every penny I've ever made that he was abusive in all his previous relationships."

And yet, behind the rage, notes Weiner-Davis, there's another dimension to the calls. "Listening between the vulgarities, part of what he was saying is that he was disappointed she wasn't emotionally available to him. That does not justify his behavior, but it's a little too easy to say this guy belongs behind bars."


That plea for help, albeit primitive and expletive-laden, is what psychiatrist Scott Haltzmann finds familiar from other couples he has treated. "There's nothing about this call that's healthy," he stresses, "but these themes are not uncommon when I see men. He feels she doesn't appreciate what he does, doesn't make his life more comfortable and doesn't engage in sex with him in the way he would like. These are recurrent problems."

Unlike his female counterparts, Haltzmann says Gibson's behavior is not off-the-charts crazy. "Very few therapists know what really goes on in people's households," he says. "I think a lot of couples with poor communication skills and built-up anger reach the point we are hearing on these tapes."


The emotional intensity may be common in many arguing married couples, but Steven Stosny, psychotherapist and author of Love without Hurt says that's just half the story. In other respects Gibson "sounds like most of the 4,000 abusers I have treated in my career — he sees himself as the victim and feels justified in any kind of retaliation. He is completely incapable at that point in seeing anyone else's perspective." The whole argument is heightened by what sounds like a panic attack, which Gibson may be dealing with by using alcohol or anger. "The adrenalin rush of anger regulates the powerlessness of the panic attack. He feels temporarily empowered, but the extra jolt of adrenalin turns the anger into rage."


There may be one person who could be helped by listening to those phone calls again. As one of the tapes revealed, Gibson is already working with a therapist. Let's hope it's a good one.




Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off



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Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:10 AM

KANEMAN


I thought his rant was exemplary. But this has been hashed out here already...making your thread lame.

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Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:39 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I don't know how crazy Mr. Gibson is. I do know these statements are vulgar and offensive and wrong. However, I find that I wish I did not know about them. The only relationship I want to have with Mr. Gibson is as a viewer who either enjoys or does not enjoy his movies. When information like this comes out, it tends to spoil some amount of enjoyment I might have otherwise had in his creations. Everything new and everything remembered is now seen through this filter.

It's like that actress that posed in Vietnamese Anti-aircraft guns during the war. My Dad couldn't watch her movies after that, since it offended his sense of patriotism so greatly. Not even Barbarella, in which she is virtually naked much of the time. My Dad adores naked women in cheesy movies, but he couldn't enjoy her body any more, because her politics grated so much.

It's hard to suspend reality and view someone as a hero or romantic object when you know something about them that makes them repugnant to you.

--Anthony


Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews, Wulfenstar. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:11 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


I think Mel is registered here as "Riverlove". Among a slew of other usernames...

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Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:13 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Of course, Mel *could* be contemplating running for office as a Tea Party candidate... He's already "courting" the Jewish vote, the black vote, the Hispanic vote, the women's vote. I've no doubt the Tea Party would endorse him in a heartbeat! "Mad Max 2012! He's the Ayatollah of Rock and Roll-ah!"

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Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:16 AM

CUDA77

Like woman, I am a mystery.


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Of course, Mel *could* be contemplating running for office as a Tea Party candidate... He's already "courting" the Jewish vote, the black vote, the Hispanic vote, the women's vote. I've no doubt the Tea Party would endorse him in a heartbeat! "Mad Max 2012! He's the Ayatollah of Rock and Roll-ah!"



Wouldn't even need to make speeches either. Just hire Wulfie and have him post YouTube clips from Mel's movies. After all, it wasn't a character saying those scripted lines, it was Mel, speaking truly and honestly.


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Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:17 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


You mean Jane Fonda, Anthony? I think a LOT of people are turned off to her because of her political stances, so your dad isn't alone!

I'm the other way around, in a way. I'm always fascinated by the real people...but this stuff, no, I'd rather not hear about it. It's their business, and only gets attention because they're "stars". On the other hand, I love fleshing out a star with other information about them, like Harrison Ford having been a carpenter here in Mill Valley.

I enjoy the "back stuff" as much as the movie, if I enjoyed the movie. "Making of" documentaries, breaking down of the special effects especially, interviews with the cast and how they saw their character, etc., has always fascinatd me. It was a glorious day for me when they came out with DVDs because of all the "bonus features" they include. I've had a ball since then!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


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Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:24 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I don't know how crazy Mr. Gibson is. I do know these statements are vulgar and offensive and wrong. However, I find that I wish I did not know about them. The only relationship I want to have with Mr. Gibson is as a viewer who either enjoys or does not enjoy his movies. When information like this comes out, it tends to spoil some amount of enjoyment I might have otherwise had in his creations. Everything new and everything remembered is now seen through this filter.

It's like that actress that posed in Vietnamese Anti-aircraft guns during the war. My Dad couldn't watch her movies after that, since it offended his sense of patriotism so greatly. Not even Barbarella, in which she is virtually naked much of the time. My Dad adores naked women in cheesy movies, but he couldn't enjoy her body any more, because her politics grated so much.

It's hard to suspend reality and view someone as a hero or romantic object when you know something about them that makes them repugnant to you.

--Anthony


Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews, Wulfenstar. I apologize for the inconvenience.




I refer to it as the "Afterburner Effect", in reference to the ZZ Top album "Afterburner", their follow-up to their top-selling "Eliminator" album. Afterburner was so bad that it actually created a tear in the fabric of space/time and went back in time and tainted all of their previously excellent efforts. I've never been able to listen to them again, because they've been ruined for me forever.

Jefferson Airplane's/Starship's "We Built This City" had much the same effect on their previous music, but some of it (White Rabbit, for instance) has managed to remain coherent in the face of the tear in space.

But you're right; I now no longer have any desire to ever again see ANY Mel Gibson movie... Call it the Afterburner Effect.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:26 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Cuda77:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Of course, Mel *could* be contemplating running for office as a Tea Party candidate... He's already "courting" the Jewish vote, the black vote, the Hispanic vote, the women's vote. I've no doubt the Tea Party would endorse him in a heartbeat! "Mad Max 2012! He's the Ayatollah of Rock and Roll-ah!"



Wouldn't even need to make speeches either. Just hire Wulfie and have him post YouTube clips from Mel's movies. After all, it wasn't a character saying those scripted lines, it was Mel, speaking truly and honestly.





Bingo! The campaign almost writes itself! (Even if it never rights itself) :)

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Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:27 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


....and Kwick refuses to get off my case...

Dude, get a life, or at least a new target.

You are getting boring.

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Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:39 AM

MALACHITE


I agree, what I've heard doesn't put Mel in a good light...

I was surprised to hear the detailed comments psychotherapists made about Mel, though. I think most psychotherapists know it is unwise to make public comments about a celebrity's mental pathology because they aren't in a therapeutic relationship with the celebrity and therefore can't know all of the details of a situation (and of course, if they were in a therapeutic relationship with the celebrity, they most certainly should not comment publicly). Commenting on public figures is a tricky thing to do while still maintaining APA ethical guidelines. Is there some other reason why the psychotherapists are commenting? Perhaps to gain some attention to themselves, maybe?

Here's a link that kind of describes what I'm talking about.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/jul/27/michael-jackson-mental-h
ealth-psychologists

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Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:44 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello Mal,

I agree. It's wrong and potentially damaging to do secondhand diagnosis like this. I'd be suspicious of any psychologist or psychiatrist who made such statements. If their main goal is gathering fame, then I don't want them anywhere near my brain.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews, Wulfenstar. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:59 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
....and Kwick refuses to get off my case...

Dude, get a life, or at least a new target.

You are getting boring.




Where was I on your case, clown?

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Thursday, July 15, 2010 11:01 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello Mal,

I agree. It's wrong and potentially damaging to do secondhand diagnosis like this. I'd be suspicious of any psychologist or psychiatrist who made such statements. If their main goal is gathering fame, then I don't want them anywhere near my brain.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews, Wulfenstar. I apologize for the inconvenience.




Yeah, I saw "Dr." Nancy Sniderman doing the same thing on NBC, and turned it off. She's diagnosing via teleconference, apparently, and I thought that kind of quackery went out with Bill Frist proclaiming Terry Schiavo "not a vegetable"...

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Thursday, July 15, 2010 11:03 AM

MALACHITE


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:


I refer to it as the "Afterburner Effect", in reference to the ZZ Top album "Afterburner", their follow-up to their top-selling "Eliminator" album. Afterburner was so bad that it actually created a tear in the fabric of space/time and went back in time and tainted all of their previously excellent efforts. I've never been able to listen to them again, because they've been ruined for me forever.

Jefferson Airplane's/Starship's "We Built This City" had much the same effect on their previous music, but some of it (White Rabbit, for instance) has managed to remain coherent in the face of the tear in space.




I had much the same experience going from Metallica's black album to "Load", and by "Reload", I was really struggling to stay interested in them... They've come out with a few one's I've liked since the black album, but not enough to buy the cds...

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Thursday, July 15, 2010 11:03 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Good points; any psychologist or psychiatrist should know better than to make public diagnoses/statements about someone's mental health unless they knew all the facts.

But some inevitably do. Whether it's to get their 15 minutes of fame or because they're just a bad psychologist/psychiatrist (heaven knows there are many of them out there!), it's wrong.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


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Thursday, July 15, 2010 11:05 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Whatever, Kwick.

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Thursday, July 15, 2010 11:09 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Whatever, Kwick.




Afraid to answer my question, I see. No surprise there. You've been ducking my questions for years now!

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Thursday, July 15, 2010 11:29 AM

MALACHITE


Hey Mike,
So I was thinking about your ZZ Topp experience, and I came up with another personal experience. Def Leppard's "Hysteria" followed by "Adrenalize"... Awful follow up... Anyways, now back to our regularly scheduled programming...

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Thursday, July 15, 2010 1:15 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Malachite:
Hey Mike,
So I was thinking about your ZZ Topp experience, and I came up with another personal experience. Def Leppard's "Hysteria" followed by "Adrenalize"... Awful follow up... Anyways, now back to our regularly scheduled programming...




Yup, that definitely qualifies! :)


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Thursday, July 15, 2010 1:45 PM

FREMDFIRMA



The most horrible thing about this thread is that I actually kinda liked most of the albums y'all are flaming, with the exception of metallibitchywhinycorporatewhorica, cause I've been on their case from the moment they started considering their own fans and potential customers as an enemy.

Talk about self-fulfilling prophecy.

But then, who am I to talk about someone elses musical tastes, being of the mind that hair bands and grungers were the pinnacle of music development, meh heh heh.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, July 15, 2010 1:55 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Fret not, Frem. I attended a friend's birthday party at a gay bar once, and was appalled to find many of my favorite songs on the jukebox.

Now, if only I had good fashion sense or tidy living habits. Sadly, we can not pick our genetic heritage. I'm cursed to adopt a belief that We are the Champions while I use a Mr. Roboto to escape my cell and get to the Chorus Line before the show is over. Kinsey, you make a scale, and THIS is my portion? *shakes fist*

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:14 PM

STORYMARK


Mel seems to have some....anger issues (seriously, listening is way different than reading transcripts on this one), and is certainly not a person I'd like to meet.

However, it won't change my enjoyment of his films. I have no trouble separating the actor from the role they play.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:27 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Well, it's not a problem for me; I never considered Gibson an "actor" per se. I enjoyed the first two Lethal Weapons, but after that they just got stupid, and that wasn't acting, anyway. And Signs, I liked Signs...but I can think of a dozen actors who could have done a better job. Everything else he's done has left me flat, so that I stopped watching in the end. Overblown, over-violent, action-hiding-no-talent, that was about it for me even before I learned what an asshole he apparently is.

I class him with Dnofrio (SP?) and Costner...ego a mile wide; talent, not so much.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


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Thursday, July 15, 2010 4:27 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

If you want to see Costner in an interesting role, absent of violence, that may argue for talent- take a look at Thirteen Days.

Which, even if you decide he didn't do well, is an interesting film and worth your time.

I found Mel Gibson entertaining in almost everything I've seen him in (even the awful propaganda flicks) so it's sad to now have this information hanging on the back of my mind.

--Anthony



Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Thursday, July 15, 2010 6:25 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

I class him with Dnofrio (SP?) and Costner...ego a mile wide; talent, not so much.




Donofrio? Really? I think he's quite a good actor, actually. He's the ONLY reason I ever tried Law&Order: Criminal Intent. And he was damned good in a little Val Kilmer flick called "The Salton Sea", too. And Full Metal Jacket, of course.

Costner? Meh... Fandango he was good. Thirteen Days, yes (Good call, Anthony! I've got that one on DVD!). Some others. But not any of that Robin Hood, Waterworld, Postman garbage.

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Thursday, July 15, 2010 8:51 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Well, considering that Waterworld was what inspired him to actually start caring about our biosphere, to the point of investing hard work and personal cash in something that's currently of actual USE...

I can forgive that it's not the best flick out there, and it does have it's moments, the Smokers are over the top hilarious, especially the poor bastard running that dismounted set of AA guns.

Hell, I bought a copy last week just to put money in Costners pocket as a gesture of solidarity, cause his actions regarding the gulf situation have bought him a substantial amount of "cred" with me, ego or not.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, July 16, 2010 2:05 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Good points, Frem, and you're right on that.

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Friday, July 16, 2010 3:24 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I'm late to the party again I see.
So I managed to avoid listening to any of the rants until now, but curiosity got the better of me.

Mel is a typical abuser. "You made me so angry" and "You made me do it" is the normal abusive blame-shifting. Denying that he's angry or even partially at fault, trying to isolate Oksana ("You have no friends"), threatening her with harm, painting HIMSELF as the victim, referring to himself as Okasana's all-powerful and sole support, and telling her to get out while telling her to stay on the phone... clearly all he wants to do is victimize her.

Good thing she made a tape, even better that the LAPD are looking into it. Too bad more women don't do the same.

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Friday, July 16, 2010 5:25 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


They seem to be releasing a new tape every day, and now they're saying the really bad stuff is yet to come.

So does he have a movie out? Is he running for office? It seems there's a lot of hype behind all this mess; is it all just so she can get a better settlement in the breakup?

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Friday, July 16, 2010 5:35 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Okay, I'll forgive Costner...a bit. Can't forgive him for Waterworld itself tho', sorry. I DO love "Dances", but I know why and it has little to do with Costner. Had much more to do with Mary McDonnel (SP) and the story. Yes, I know all the bullshit, but I also like manipulative Speilberg movies, even tho' the manipulation is crystal clear. It was just nice to have a movie so pro-Indian (however unrealistically and overblown); there will never be enough to countearct those horrible "westerns".

The best thing Donofrio ever did was MIB, in my opinion. He was hysterical in that and I'll freely grant you that he's willing to go all the way over the top to give us the character; he getes points for that in my book. But the egos of both turn me off. I'll check out Thirteen Days, tho'; a good movie is worth much.

Sig: Every word you said. Right on!

I think the coverage is because his rants are so dramatic and he's a star, Mike. If Joe Schmoe said such things and they were caught on tape, nobody would give a shit. But you already know that.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


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Friday, July 16, 2010 5:41 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Overblown, over-violent, action-hiding-no-talent, that was about it for me even before I learned what an asshole he apparently is.

I class him with Dnofrio (SP?) and Costner...ego a mile wide; talent, not so much.



I don't know how you define talent, but I think you are pretty well exemplifying the notion of judging them by their off screen personalities rather than their work. The fact that you keep bringing up egos and not discussing the actual work is ample evidence here.

I consider all three to be hugely talented, and your dismissal to be.... disingenuous and simplistic, really.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, July 16, 2010 5:52 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


"Mad Max 2012! He's the Ayatollah of Rock and Roll-ah!"

Kwix, you're a sick man - lmao ;-))


SGG

Tawabawho?

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Friday, July 16, 2010 6:04 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Hey Frem,

Waterworld is not half bad. I too get a big chuckle out of the guy with the Ack-Ack guns (is that what they're called?) and Dennis Hopper is HI-larious in his role as the Deacon.

But Costner, a movie star, actually contributing to the common good, who knew! Yep, he definitely gained some street cred there.

But Mel is in some serious need of medication.


SGG

Tawabawho?

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Friday, July 16, 2010 6:58 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Sure, Story, if you want to ignore "that was about it for me even before I learned..." I didn't like either one before I knew a damned thing about them; what I'd seen of their work didn't display what I deem as "artistic talent", that was my judgment long before I knew anything. They just happen to both embody what I consider overblown egos, but that would have nothing to do with what I opine about their talent.

Talent to me is range and ability, ability to make the character real is more important than whether they have range or not, but range to me speaks to talent I most respect and admire.

So your argument doesn't hold water, if that's your only criteria. I don't think James Garner is particularly talented either, but I enjoyed the roles he took and the personna of the characters he chose long before I knew anything about him as a person, which only enhanced my respect for him. In my opinion he's white bread, I don't think he represents real "talent" but I enjoy his movies and the personna he played (which was pretty much the same from Maverick forward).

I admire Sally Field's talent, and many others about whom I know absolutely nothing. I don't particularly like Meryl Streep (tho' I know little if anything about her) and haven't enjoyed most of the roles she's chosen or the movies she's been in, but I'd never deny her talent.

I thought Harrison Ford was white bread, too, until I saw "Mosquito Coast" and a couple of others and changed my mind. Ditto Kevin Bacon, until I saw a recent movie, "Death Sentence" or something, can't remember the name, and was blown over by his portrayal. I didn't like the movie, it was unpleasant, but his acting was superb. I don't think I'd like Harrison Ford if I met him, and I know little if anything about Kevin Bacon.

I was knocked over by Russel Crowe in L.A. Confidential; the movies he's chosen since have turned me off, but I don't deny his talent. I fell for Marsha Mason in Goodbye Girl, but subsequently realized it was the writing, not her portrayal, that made the movie great. I'm a big fan of Richard Dreyfus, too, but don't respect him for how he screwed up and lost his chance to be great. That's personal; he denied me the pleasure of all the great characters I believe he could have played.

On the other hand, while I recognized his enormous talent, I didn't like DeNiro because his movies turned me off, until he started doing comedy at which I thought he was great and recognized greater range; now he's doing shlock, but I still respect the talent.

And on and on. An actor who has a good range impresses me, I may not choose a movie they're in because the content of the movie turns me off tho'; an actor who has little range but makes movies I enjoy, I appreciate and will take a chance on about any movie they're in; an actor who does movies I don't enjoy, I end up looking askance at any movie they are in, unless the movie itself looks promising or it has other actors in it I enjoy. An actor who reaches beyond his genre and does something to "give back" I admire enormously--I still might not like their movies or think they're talented, but I respect them.

Oh, and I thoroughly enjoyed Buffy, tho' I have no respect for Sarah Michelle, think her range is miniscule, and don't like what I've heard about her. I love Firefly and respect Adam Baldwin, tho' our political opinions are diametrically opposite and I don't think I'd necessarily like him, but I saw talent in his portrayal and respect that. I know nothing about his range.

You can tell TONS about an actor by the roles they choose and yes, that informs my feelings about them. I don't follow a lot of stuff about actors and tend to hear about it by chance. Sometimes it fits with the opinion I've garnered by their choice of roles; sometimes it's the opposite.

It's a mixed bag which has to do only with my own taste. You can choose to believe my criteria is not up to your standards, but they are my criteria:

1. If I enjoy the movies I see them in
2. If I like the roles they choose
3. If I perceive what I see as "talent"

Only THEN do I care about anything I learn regarding them. And my taste is my own; everyone's is different.

It bothers me that you have made such assumptions. I'm a big movie buff and I know it; I'm fascinated by actors and enjoy understanding them and knowing about them as people, but I don't "dig" for information. I love interviews because it lets me see them a bit more as people; huge fan of Actors Studio. But it doesn't reflect my opinion of their talent.

Ramble, ramble, ramble, but I was ofended by assumptions that I felt were hasty, judgmental and wrong. There is nothing "simplistic" about my feelings, much goes into them, so to say what you did, as well as some of the other things you said, strikes me as rude--especially the judgmental aspect.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


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Friday, July 16, 2010 6:59 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"Had much more to do with Mary McDonnel (SP) and the story."

Hello,

I invite you to sample a movie called Sneakers, where this actress did a beautiful job alongside a treasure trove of talented actors.

And then, if that sits well with you, I'll reel you in a little further into my world. ;-)

--Anthony



Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Friday, July 16, 2010 8:53 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, yes, Anthony, I love Sneakers! Watch it every time it comes around...much fun. I would argue however that it was a small role and could have been played by many. Actually, while I love the movie, it's not a tribute to ANY of their talents...Kingsley hasn't done anything to rival a challenge since Ghandi, tho' I'll admit it's a good showcase for Aykroyd. But Poitier, Redford and Phoenix weren't challenged...admittedly, Straithairn was great, tho'.

But if you REALLY want to see her talent--and ironically, more of Straithairn, try "Passion Fish". Probably not well known, but WELL worth the viewing, And her co-star, whose name JUST flashed past and probably won't come back for a few hours, is superb, as is the glimpse into the location.

Ahhh...Alfre Woodard, damn, that was fast! In my opinion, both she, McDonnel and Strathairn did much richer characters than Sneakers...but the movie isn't nearly as much fun! (Especially as I'm a geek for gadgets, special effects, etc.)


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off



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Friday, July 16, 2010 9:14 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"it's not a tribute to ANY of their talents"

Hello,

See, there I must disagree. Their performances were effortless, and I understood and believed the characters instantly. No struggle with high drama, certainly, but that's not my measure of an actor. Do I believe in the person you are portraying? Am I watching someone act, or am I glimpsing into the lives of strangers through an aperture into an alternate dimension?

If you can do a comedic drama (Sneakers is comedy heavy) and also make me believe in the characters, then you've done aces in my book.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Friday, July 16, 2010 9:36 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I agree. But to me a good movie is one where the characters grow...a perfect example would be "Postcards from the Edge". Both protagonists grew through their experiences, and that was a comedy/drama.

Absolutely, the first priority is that the actor must make me "buy into" the character, no question about that. That's the very first thing they get points for. But you said it yourself, "Their performances were effortless"--an indication that the work wasn't a challenge to any of them, all of whom in my opinion have enormous talent, bar none. There was no challenge to their characters to change and grow. That can be blamed on the material, unquestionably, but it's the next measure of what I give points for, and it failed on that point.

Nonetheless, I'd watch Sneakers again and again over Passion Fish, which I believe is the far superior movie and let the actors utilize their talents far more.

I appreciate some pretty stupid movies; I know they're not quality, but I love 'em, enough to bu some of them. I can see "Evolution" and "Galaxy Quest" over and over...a movie I think is exceptionally great, like Ghandi or Gods and Monsters or The Quiet American (and yes, I'm a Brendan Frasier fan), I won't see necessarily even twice. In fact I HAVEN'T seen Ghandi or Gods and Monsters twice yet...tho' I own them. I will, but first I'll grab something like "2012", "The American President", "The Fog" (original, not that inexcusable remake!).

Then there are those which I think are both excellent, well written and well acted which I WILL watch over and over, like "Mystery, Alaska", "Fish Called Wanda", "Elizabethtown", "Dogma", and of course, Firefly and Serenity, first and foremost.

It's just all a matter of taste, priorities and enjoyment. Everyone's taste, priorities and enjoyment is different. There is no "good" and "bad" or "right" and "wrong", it's just taste.

As you can see, I take my movie/TV watching pretty seriously.

However, I will also shamefacedly admit that I'll watch REALLY bad made-for-TV movies on Sci Fi Channel. I have a special liking for sci fi and enjoy laughing at how bad they are and the monsters.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


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Friday, July 16, 2010 9:38 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Shinygoodguy:
"Mad Max 2012! He's the Ayatollah of Rock and Roll-ah!"

Kwix, you're a sick man - lmao ;-))


SGG

Tawabawho?




Thanks, but it's really not much of a stretch. After all, they already put up Sarah Palin as their VP pick once! Why not go full-on bugfuck gonzo about it and put up Mel next time around? (And I know that it was really the Humongous who was the Ayatollah of Rock-n-Rollah, but still...)


And Niki: Yeah, I know he's a star and that's why it's making the news. What I was questioning was this schedule they seem to be keeping of releasing one tape every day, and saying "Just wait for the BAD stuff!" It all seems a little too pat, too planned out, too Hollywood PR Blitz at its worst.

Who knows? Maybe he's about to start filming a sequel to "What Women Want"... Only this time he'll only be hearing and telling women what they DON'T want, which turns out to be... well, anyone like Mel Gibson!

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Friday, July 16, 2010 9:45 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


I liked Ben Kingsley in "Sexy Beast". Good role, and a change for him from what I've grown used to.

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Friday, July 16, 2010 9:58 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Mike: Oh, yes, I see...I agree, it does seem fishy, you're right.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


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Friday, July 16, 2010 10:21 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Hey, if you like Sci-Fi, you must have seen this actress on Battlestar Galactica? What did you think of her there?

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Friday, July 16, 2010 10:24 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Never got around to Battlestar Gallactica. By the time I heard of it, it was far enough along that my one attempt at watching it was too confusing. Something where you have to have been keeping up for it to make sense, it seemed to me.

And which actress? You didn't mention a name.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


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Friday, July 16, 2010 10:32 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Mary McDonnell. She figures prominently throughout the entire series. I agree, it's best viewed from the beginning. From the miniseries that preceded the first season.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Friday, July 16, 2010 10:37 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, yeah...the one episode I did try to watch, I was suprised to see her there. She seemed to be doing good, and the character seemed to have quite a bit of depth. Maybe someday I'll rent the series from the beginning via Netflix, I know I've heard about it since forever it seems!

It seems to me like the movie business ain't doin' so good...so many heavyweights are showing up on TV who I'm used to seeing only in the movies. Holly Hunter, McDonnel, Jeff Goldblum and others all getting their own shows. Makes it feel like the steady paycheck these days is in TV, rather than movies...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


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Friday, July 16, 2010 10:41 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I have noticed the same trend. It used to be considered a sign of a failing career to step down from movies to television. However, I think it's becoming more the sign of a failing industry. I'm tickled, though, to see great film actors entering quality television roles.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Friday, July 16, 2010 10:49 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yeah, I hear Holly Hunter's series was/is really good...never caught it myself, kind of on the fence about Hunter.

I thoroughly enjoy Goldblum replacing Donofrio on CI. Not a big CI fan, prefer SVU, but a big Goldblum fan from way back (NOT saying he has talent, he's just so tall and--in my opinion--yummy!)

I know there are others, too--oh, Glenn Close has a series I saw (haven't caught it)--something starts with a "D"? Can you think of others?

And I agree, I too think it's a sign of a failing industry, which is a shame.

Okay, Niki, knock it off...back's killing me, time to get off the computer...rrrrr (trying to pull hands off kekyboard)...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


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Friday, July 16, 2010 12:37 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Actually SGG, that dismounted turret had, I think, four Browning H2B .50cal machineguns, specifically.

I got to sit in and have some "fun" with a turret that only mounted TWO of those babies, and the muzzle flash, blast, and shockwaves coming offa that beat me half silly and left me almost deaf as a post, earmuffs notwitstanding, for most of a day.

Four of them things would be murder to the operator, who's pretty obviously mostly deaf, and likely countering the misery and impending mild concussion with a a couple pints of rum, in traditional pirate fashion - all of which makes getting instructions through to the poor guy not exactly easy.

Nathan mentioned a similar bit of "fun" in the pilot episode commentary, the weapon he shoots down the alliance fighter with was similarly loud and abusive to it's operator.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, July 16, 2010 12:39 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Frems being too nice... is this the real Frem or one of his minions? 24 hours and we will know...

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