A well armed society is a polite one. by Wulfenstar

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Go out and ride your skateboard boy your own hypocrisy is starting to bore me.

Really? That's the best you've got, Kaney? I guess that's what they call a "burn" in 9th grade, huh?

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Thursday, July 22, 2010 5:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

This seems a bit more fitting, somehow.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Thursday, July 22, 2010 6:00 PM

MINCINGBEAST

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
*jumps sides*

*Uses a rez spell on MB*

Yeah, I felt guilty. Turns out I don't have the stomach for internet violence after all.

*Rises from the dead, hella disappointed frown on his rotten, disfigured face*

Who dares disturb my rest? I was totally enjoying oblivion. Why am I here? It must be vengeance...

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Thursday, July 22, 2010 6:11 PM

Yay, I'm still evil.

Also, I gave you an insatiable hunger, just so's you can feel special, and dark, and be able to lament about being cursed.

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Thursday, July 22, 2010 6:52 PM

STORYMARK

Yay, another Wulfie gun fantasy thread, where he gets to indulge his hard-on for a world in which he gets to play Wyatt Earp.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Yay, I'm still evil.

Also, I gave you an insatiable hunger, just so's you can feel special, and dark, and be able to lament about being cursed.

Yuppers, it's downright evil to raise the dead when they were enjoying their death!

Be even more evil of you to make Mince immortal. Nothing worse than hating life and being unable to shuffle off this mortal coil...

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Thursday, July 22, 2010 9:53 PM

AGENTROUKA

Byte and MincingBeast in a duel with Wulf = entertainment gold!!

Thanks for brightening my dreary Friday morning!

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Thursday, July 22, 2010 10:21 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Obviously reading comprehension isn't your strong point Kirk.

I said that my philosophical and theological beliefs encourage it, and I have also said elsewhere that I could not bring myself to do such a thing, and that makes me feel... ashamed - not that I would want to do it, no, I actually feel ashamed that I am unable to deliver lethal violence pre-emptively, cause it's something you can never, EVER take back if you happen to be wrong.

Even when you know damn well you ain't, because there's always that wish, that hope, that maybe things don't have to come to that - a curse that has time and time again allowed folks like Nixon, like LBJ, like Bush, to fuck over our country and society, because we never wanna believe someone will stoop that low, even when we damn well know they can.
(And I do not exclude Obama from that potential either.)

But still where would all these would be tyrants be, where would all the has-been tryants have been, if not for the eager, willing Jackals to carry out their will ?

Sorry Byte, while I do not believe all the tough talk comin outta the boys mouth, I am right damned sure that given a uniform, and official sanction to go after the folks he dislikes in a nice, anonymous pack - he'd do it, quite happily, in a heartbeat - I tried to show this to him, get him to face up to it, turn aside, but he *chose* that path, to be what he is.

And while I might draw the line at offing, to think I wouldn't rough up a brownshirt if I thought I could get away with it is perhaps disingenious, as many times as I have done it, although these days I do happen to be a bit too old and broken for such fun and games anymore, alas.

Knowin em personally wouldn't mean nothin either, as I would act against my own family, could and DID, when it came to cases - it wasn't enough for them to have robbed any inheritence cause I was a minor without any legal rights, they went after my personal accounts and the real blowup happened when they jacked my goddamn paycheck despite payin rent and all my own bills besides.

And when I decided to take my stuff and leave, one of em made *issue* of it, attacking from behind by surprise, and failing to disable me by ambush, it resulted in a knives-drawn brawl on the doorstep which would have come quickly to bloodshed without the intervention of a neighbor who heard the commotion - allowing me a quick exit, even though they called their "friend" on the force and set the damned county PD on me to drag me back, since I was a subhuman minor with no rights...
So I went where they wouldn't go, where they COULDN'T go, the deepest, darkest ghetto in Baltimore with nothing more than a technically-stolen car and the clothes on my back.

Had it been necessary to leave a member of my own family down and bleeding on the doorstep to accomplish that, I woulda done it, without a blink - and I have had even uglier incidents with friends who chose to take what they thought was the "winning" side and morals be damned.

But talk is talk, it's only when they ACT on it, that I will act against them physically - but pouring sand into the gears of what little brains they have, pre-emptively ?
Hell yes, I will call them out, rub their nose in the consequences of the path they have taken, hold the mirror up to their face and make them see, show them their own denial and where it leads to, oh yes indeed.

There's a big difference between being Compassionate, and being Merciful.
Being one does not automatically assume the other.

Do you really think that if he and a couple like-minded folk decided to have themselves a merry little lynching and "string up a darkie" that I wouldn't turf a couple of em if I could ?

Like hell I wouldn't.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 3:28 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

I love being psychoanalyzed here.. its always amusing and usually pretty harsh.

Jeeze.

I put forth a philosophy to the peanut gallery, to see what you all thought of it. This place is a good sounding board as we have MANY different view points, and different ideologies.

So, not to sound arrgoant, but how did this become about me?

Does a well armed society make for a more polite one? Maybe. Id say in about 90% it does.

Again, for the reasons I stated.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Friday, July 23, 2010 3:58 AM

AGENTROUKA

You're not really talking about well-armed = polite. You're talking about scared = polite.

The mere existence of guns does NOT equal the actual use of guns, especially for trivial crap like enforcing "politeness".

I think there is a difference between constant self-policing out of fear and the actual respect that politeness is generally supposed to express. What use is fake politeness? All this does is erase the authenticity of expression. Smile at your face, spit behind your back, is that what you consider an attractive society? A polite one?

I think a fear-based society would be more conducive to acting out repressed aggression against those who are - for whatever reason - weaker. Might makes right... is not polite.

All that assuming you still support the prosecution of people who violently attack others based on nothing but perceived or actual verbal insult.

Which I am not sure you do. The level of acceptance you extend toward punishing rudeness with violence is disturbing, which even further undermines politeness to be a mere fake front, as opposed to an honest expression of respect for human beings and their human rights. Like not dying.

So.. I disagree. I think a fear-based society (no matter how armed or not) is a neurotic, disturbed one. It would, in no way, implement politeness in a meaningful way.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 4:09 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I come from hell and bring the best of what I learned there.

Maybe you're just creating more hell, like the PTSD soldier who starts shooting the moment a car backfires.

Quote:
Does a well armed society make for a more polite one? Maybe. Id say in about 90% it does.

Then look around and gather some facts before you spout off, if you don't want this to be about you. Because right now, this is just about Wulf and his usual deeply personal but uninformed opinion.

As people like to point out, guns are tools. Tools for KILLING, admittedly, but tools nonetheless. They can be in the hands of monsters or in the hands of sane people. If you look at societies world-wide, you see some bristling with guns (Switzerland) that are polite and others that are nightmares (Sudan, Somalia and the USA). You see unarmed societies that are EXTREMELY polite (UK) and unarmed societies that are violent (Nigeria).

So what's the difference between the polite ones and the violent ones?

Well... wealth distribution, for one. Polite societies tend to have more even wealth distribution, where everyone can have a reasonable life. Conformity is another: polite nations have strict social rules. And lastly: Polite nations do NOT see violence in general, and guns specifically, as "the answer". In Switzerland, for example, people are required to own guns as part of the national militia, but they don't strap them on every time they step out the door.

Your narrative falls apart in the real-world context, Wulf. Liberals have a far better chance of making a polite world than you do, seeing as the true causes of violence have nothing to do with gun ownership or lack thereof.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 4:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
I love being psychoanalyzed here.. its always amusing and usually pretty harsh.

Jeeze.

I put forth a philosophy to the peanut gallery, to see what you all thought of it. This place is a good sounding board as we have MANY different view points, and different ideologies.

So, not to sound arrgoant, but how did this become about me?

Does a well armed society make for a more polite one? Maybe. Id say in about 90% it does.

Again, for the reasons I stated.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

Y'know, Wulfie, the vast majority of China seems to be a VERY polite society, does it not? So it could be said that over-reaching tyranny makes for a polite society, too. I'll bet you'd be more careful about what you said if friends and family started to suddenly disappear.

If you're relying on fear to induce "politeness", you're doing it wrong, whether it be fear of the government's guns, or fear of YOUR guns.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 5:18 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

And round and round and round we go, where we stop, everyone SHOULD know: we get bored and move on...eventually...far too long after we should...

Wulf will not change. He is locked into a mentality that is as unyielding as stone. Frem finally gave up when he realized this; there will be no learning from anything anyone says or from any facts, yet it goes on....?

Must be some fun in back-and-forthing with him, that's all I can figure. There are so much more interesting things to do...

I only popped in to see where this was going 'cuz it's the first thread I opened this morning, so I figured I'd have my say. Now I'LL move on to something more interesting. Just about anything has to be.

Wulf: Your premise has been discussed to death and determined to be false. NOBODY agrees with you, far as I can see. You can't complain about it being about you; you put it up, you've defended it against all reality; you've kept it going. For no reason; people HAVE answered your "question". End of story.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of __________________, code name ‘Nike”,
signing off

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Friday, July 23, 2010 6:46 AM

MALACHITE

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

I put forth a philosophy to the peanut gallery, to see what you all thought of it. This place is a good sounding board as we have MANY different view points, and different ideologies.

I think the peanut gallery has already conveyed that the negatives of this viewpoint outweigh the positive. My main problem with the viewpoint is the underlying belief that it is okay to escalate the violence if a wrong has been done to you. That is, if someone insults you, you are within your rights to shoot them for it. But the problem with escalating the violence is it doesn't end until everyone is dead or one person is the victor because they are the best at being violent. Does that sound like an ideal society? Not to me. An underlying belief that it is okay to escalate the violence is a characteristic of Muslim extremists (that is, I can murder you if you depict a derogatory cartoon image of Muhammed). Do you really support that kind of behavior? Again, is that the peaceful society you are looking for?

You mentioned trying to see all of this in black and white. Most things aren't, but I'll take a stab with this. The closest black and white principle dealing with justice might be "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth". This principle for obtaining justice was established in order to prevent people from escalating the violence (such as responding to an accidental murder by killing the murderers family, which would then lead to further blood feuding) and instead put a limitation on what a person could expect from a crime committer as recompense. So, if you want black and white, using this principle, the most you could do to someone who insulted you would be to insult them back. I think this might be a start, anyway... (though, if you are looking for even more of the idealistic society, you'll have to see how Jesus takes the eye for an eye principle and turns it on its head... ETA: Of course, Christians are guilty of not applying Jesus' take on things as well, unfortunately...)

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Friday, July 23, 2010 6:59 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

I put forth this philosophy as a way of fleshing it out with multiple opinions. I do that a lot here.

So the concensus is: Violence as a deterrant to impolite behavior is detremental to society as a whole in that:

1. You will have people shot over "meaningless" words.

2. Being polite should be a gift, and not a "forced" one, out of fear.

Good to know.

I agree.

Tho grant me this one small favor.

The societies where politness was harshly dealt with (i.e. the Japanese samurai eras, and the American West) DID have their positives.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Friday, July 23, 2010 7:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

Wulf: Your premise has been discussed to death and determined to be false. NOBODY agrees with you, far as I can see. You can't complain about it being about you; you put it up, you've defended it against all reality; you've kept it going. For no reason; people HAVE answered your "question". End of story.

Right on. You're completely right about that. It *HAS* been discussed to death, and even notable "gun-bunnies" like Frem, Anthony, and myself have pointed out the myriad flaws in Wulfie's logic. Signy probably did it best, by pointing out places that are less armed and more polite, and places that are MORE armed and LESS polite.

I've never even considered whipping out one of my guns to try to get people to be polite. If they aren't threatening the lives of me and my family, there's absolutely no need for guns to enter the equation. And if they ARE threatening us, there's no need for polite talk about it. Guns and politeness go together like fish and bicycles, it seems to me.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 7:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

The societies where politness was harshly dealt with (i.e. the Japanese samurai eras, and the American West) DID have their positives.

I think you mean where impoliteness was harshly dealt with (by force), and those societies had their positives.

Name them. List the positives.

There was a time not all that long ago in this country (and others) where you could challenge someone to a duel if they insulted you or impugned your goodlady wife's honor. I'm still not sure that finding out who's the better shot or swordsman is a valid way of deciding whether or not someone was insulted or dishonored, though. If I insult your wife, and then kill you in a duel, is everything I said about your wife assumed to be true? Or am I still a shit-flinging monkey, just one who's faster on the draw than you are?

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 7:22 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"I've never even considered whipping out one of my guns to try to get people to be polite. If they aren't threatening the lives of me and my family, there's absolutely no need for guns to enter the equation. And if they ARE threatening us, there's no need for polite talk about it."

I agree 100%.

So, maybe, the idea behind the phrase "A well armed society is a polite society" has LESS to do with being "polite" (in terms of speech, opening a door for a lady) and more along the lines of "polite" in the sense of violent crime.

Being "polite" = not raping, robbing, hurting, or killing each other.

.... and the shoe drops.

This was my point all along since I read some crash piece against an armed society.

Heh, I love it when a plan comes together.

:)

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Friday, July 23, 2010 7:25 AM

Methinks you have odd notions of "politeness", then, if you're willing to lower the bar so far that not raping, robbing, or killing you counts as being "polite". To me, that just counts as barely even being law-abiding.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 7:26 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Well, you have to start somewhere.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Friday, July 23, 2010 7:27 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
I put forth this philosophy as a way of fleshing it out with multiple opinions. I do that a lot here.

So the concensus is: Violence as a deterrant to impolite behavior is detremental to society as a whole in that:

1. You will have people shot over "meaningless" words.

2. Being polite should be a gift, and not a "forced" one, out of fear.

Good to know.

I agree.

Tho grant me this one small favor.

The societies where politness was harshly dealt with (i.e. the Japanese samurai eras, and the American West) DID have their positives.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

Hello,

Yes. Being beheaded by a Samurai for failing to bow respectfully did create an orderly and compliant society.

Just not a better one.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 7:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

Yes. Being beheaded by a Samurai for failing to bow respectfully did create an orderly and compliant society.

Just not a better one.

Similarly, the idea that anyone wearing the skull insignia of the Waffen SS could demand your papers, please, at any given moment for any reason at all, or no reason at all, made for quite a compliant and polite populace. Heck, they were so polite they even offered special camps and showers for their Jewish population.

And yes, Wulf, it IS a start. But what is it the start OF? A polite society, or a compliant one, easily led to slaughter?

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 7:33 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"So, maybe, the idea behind the phrase "A well armed society is a polite society" has LESS to do with being "polite" (in terms of speech, opening a door for a lady) and more along the lines of "polite" in the sense of violent crime.

Being "polite" = not raping, robbing, hurting, or killing each other."

Hello,

I think all these things happened in both the honorable Samurai eras and the adventurous American West.

Having arms gives you the means to resist, but it's not a shield against lawlessness.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 7:36 AM

Heck, those things ARE happening in Iraq and Afghanistan, thanks to our importing our "well-armed, polite society" to those countries...

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Friday, July 23, 2010 7:38 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"Yes. Being beheaded by a Samurai for failing to bow respectfully did create an orderly and compliant society."

HEY! I watched SHOGUN too... :)

... and I would argue that the society failed in large part when they no longer allowed commoners to rise to the level of Samurai.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Friday, July 23, 2010 7:44 AM

Quote:
If I insult your wife, and then kill you in a duel, is everything I said about your wife assumed to be true? Or am I still a shit-flinging monkey, just one who's faster on the draw than you are?

But the honorable hero doesn't die in this kind of thing! Even if he's vastly out of his league, and not even using his weapon of choice (or even a weapon he has any idea how to use), the universe will bend its knee to make sure that the right, good outcome happens.

Of course, black and white morality will still be preserved, by the hero not finishing off the dishonorable foe, who makes a parting shot that clearly demonstrates how dishonorable he is, and that the heroes actions were fully justified, and he goes off to plot and scheme his revenge against the hero for a later date.

So that means if the guy defending the ladies honour died, well, it actually must mean he was a really nasty piece of work, and so is his bitchy lady, who then becomes the schemer.

This is Tropes 101, and always true, always. People are never layered, and there's only one correct side of the story, the winner, who is never wrong.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 7:54 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"I've never even considered whipping out one of my guns to try to get people to be polite. If they aren't threatening the lives of me and my family, there's absolutely no need for guns to enter the equation. And if they ARE threatening us, there's no need for polite talk about it."

I agree 100%.

So, maybe, the idea behind the phrase "A well armed society is a polite society" has LESS to do with being "polite" (in terms of speech, opening a door for a lady) and more along the lines of "polite" in the sense of violent crime.

Being "polite" = not raping, robbing, hurting, or killing each other.

.... and the shoe drops.

This was my point all along since I read some crash piece against an armed society.

Heh, I love it when a plan comes together.

:)

You premise has your usual extra amount of wishful thinking as a basis. By an "armed society" I take it you mean arming the good guys? Or does it mean everyone has access to guns?

Try this little twist on your slogan: "An educated society is a polite society." And you can extend that to "not raping, robbing, hurting, or killing each other."

Here's something close to home that's far more powerful than any of your guns:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local.html

"D.C. schools fire 226 teachers"

Chancellor Michelle Rhee puts another 737 'minimally effective' educators on notice.

That women is either insane or the most courageous person in DC or both - she gets my vote either way.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Friday, July 23, 2010 7:58 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Michelle Rhee... I love this chick.

Of course shes getting hammered by the Unions and the PC, liberal elite...

But, shes got teeth, and seems to be standing her ground.

I hope she wins, and DC public schools are the better for it.

For a nice education in the way things really are... volunteer at some of the hood schools in your area.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Friday, July 23, 2010 8:02 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"... and I would argue that the society failed in large part when they no longer allowed commoners to rise to the level of Samurai."

Hello Wulf,

I think you misunderstand. Society failed in large part when it created Samurai in the first place. An elite not answerable to the people over whom they held dominion.

It is when you make statements like this that it lends credence to Frem's criticisms. It suggests Samurai would be okay just so long as you get to advance from your common position to join their ranks.

"HEY! I watched SHOGUN too... :)"

I know you did. I can tell. What dismays me most often, Wulf, is that you and I aren't that different.

I used to have gleeful heroic fantasies filled with violent acts against deserving evildoers. It's just that one day, years ago, I woke up and realized there was something wrong with how my brain was working. And so, I strove to change the way I was thinking. I used to think what happened to me was a natural process of maturing from an impulsive youth to a true adult. I figured everyone must go through the same adjustment. But lately I've come to realize that this evolution of thought has nothing to do with age. Else you and I could not come to such vastly different conclusions while occupying the same age bracket.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 8:06 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Michelle Rhee... I love this chick.

Of course shes getting hammered by the Unions and the PC, liberal elite...

But, shes got teeth, and seems to be standing her ground.

I hope she wins, and DC public schools are the better for it.

Is it raining shoes today??

And she seems to be doing it without a gun.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Friday, July 23, 2010 8:10 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Nice.

In the same post you not only called me childish, you flattered Frem in his crusade.

GOOD JOB.

I know, for a fact, that I have much to learn about manipulation and the bending of will from you and others here.

:)

Except.. I only hope to inspire thought... not bend it to my will.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Friday, July 23, 2010 8:25 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Wulf,

You seem to keep avoiding the essential dilemna of your own comments. The bottom line.

You want to be a Samurai or Wyatt Earp. You think the world worked better when these things existed.

But neither the Samurai nor Wyatt Earp were the things you imagine them to be.

Aspiring to become these things, and live in their world, speaks about you.

Maybe you should take a hard look about what you're saying, and even more, about what you are thinking.

Who do you want to be? What do you really believe in?

If this is it, then yes, I consider it immature. I often don't like Frem's use of you, nor his occasional remarks on tire irons or hangings. I understand he's working from a place of frustration and disappointment, but I don't think he's right to say these things.

On the other hand, your only response to his criticisms is to work hard to make his opinions of you ring true.

If you are better than that... Then be better than that.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 8:40 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Heh. Shades of gray Ant,... layers.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Friday, July 23, 2010 8:41 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
But the honorable hero doesn't die in this kind of thing! Even if he's vastly out of his league, and not even using his weapon of choice (or even a weapon he has any idea how to use), the universe will bend its knee to make sure that the right, good outcome happens.

You mean like Mal in Shindig?

What I got is that Wulf agrees an armed society isn't a polite society, that he put up the thread to see what the responses would be.

However, I disagree about the Samurai and Wild West necessarily making a better society, and they CERTAINLY didn't contribute to a more "polite" society

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of __________________, code name ‘Nike”,
signing off

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Friday, July 23, 2010 8:58 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Never said they made a BETTER society... only that they had positives to them.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Friday, July 23, 2010 9:00 AM

KIRKULES

The main reason an armed society is polite is because most people will do the right thing given the power to do so. If a scumbag tries to rob a group of people with a gun and everyone but the criminal is unarmed the outcome is almost always positive for the bad guy. An armed thug might get away with robbing a group of armed people if that group believes that loss of money is not worth the taking of life. If on the other hand the robber resorts to violence the situation will always end badly for him. Good people with guns are no threat to anyone, but their presence is a healthy deterrent of crime. The reason people become more polite is because they become less afraid. Knowing that wherever they go the majority of those around them are like minded and armed.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 9:04 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Kirk for the WIN... in this otherwise strange and threadjacked...... thread.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Friday, July 23, 2010 9:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Quote:
But the honorable hero doesn't die in this kind of thing! Even if he's vastly out of his league, and not even using his weapon of choice (or even a weapon he has any idea how to use), the universe will bend its knee to make sure that the right, good outcome happens.
You mean like Mal in Shindig?

I liked Shindig, so no offense to anyone, but that was seriously the worst and most contrived sword fight and ending ever.

The only redeeming factor was the "mercy is the mark of a great man" boast, and subsequent stabbing.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 10:10 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

"The reason people become more polite is because they become less afraid."

I agree that people become more polite when they are less afraid, but I don't think that implies a connection to being armed.

"If on the other hand the robber resorts to violence the situation will always end badly for him."

I wish this was true, but it's not. When the good guys are armed, it gives them the ability to respond, but it does not assure a positive outcome.

We need to look harder at polite societies if we are striving towards a polite society.

We need to look harder at safe societies if we are striving towards a safe society.

Arms by themselves neither make people polite nor safe. Not any more than giving everyone a hammer will result in a construction boom. Suggesting that everyone should be armed on the premise that arming everyone will cure an ill of society is misguided. I agree that everyone should have the tool, but I can make no predictions or guarantees about what they will do with it. Education and the general welfare will impact society more than hot lead.

"Never said they made a BETTER society... only that they had positives to them."

Wulf, why did you single out these societies for having 'positives' in them? What positives do you see in Feudal Japan and the period of Western expansion that you don't see in contemporary societies?

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 10:13 AM

Kirk's explanation may have some basis in reality, though I point out the issue brought up in his last sentence.

This only works if there's a lack of diversity in the community, both culturally, thought-wise, and potentially racially.

Anthony has a good point as well about this not necessarily ensuring a positive outcome.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 10:22 AM

KIRKULES

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Arms by themselves neither make people polite nor safe. Not any more than giving everyone a hammer will result in a construction boom. Suggesting that everyone should be armed on the premise that arming everyone will cure an ill of society is misguided. I agree that everyone should have the tool, but I can make no predictions or guarantees about what they will do with it.

Recent FBI statistics would tend to contradict your assumptions. I think you would probably agree the gun sales since it became apparent that the Dems would take power in 20008 have gone through the roof. In a time period of unprecedented gun sales from 2008-2009 FBI statistics show a 7.2 percent drop in the murder rate. Similar effects have been seen in States after they have adopted concealed carry.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 10:36 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"Recent FBI statistics would tend to contradict your assumptions. I think you would probably agree the gun sales since it became apparent that the Dems would take power in 20008 have gone through the roof. In a time period of unprecedented gun sales from 2008-2009 FBI statistics show a 7.2 percent drop in the murder rate. Similar effects have been seen in state after they have adopted concealed carry."

Hello Kirk,

What do the FBI statistics say about societies that have access to guns and also have a high murder rate? Or societies that have no access to guns and a low murder rate? You can't build a whole house on one plank. You can't build a whole philosophy on one narrowly defined piece of data.

There's more than just guns in this equation. It's not even a certainty that guns are the most important part of this equation.

I also point out that the people who buy guns when they are worried about the Dems are frequently the same people who already own guns. So does owning 3 guns instead of 2 make you safer? It makes me happier, because I love the things, but I'm not sure it has a negative impact on my likelihood of being murdered.

Any time a philosopher posits about the ONE IMPORTANT THING, it's usually easy to prove them wrong. Guns aren't the one important thing. They are a thing, and they may be important, but they're not even the 'key' to solving the problem. You need look no further than Europe to see that something else is at work.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 11:12 AM

MALACHITE

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

Heh. Shades of gray Ant,... layers.

I'm confused. Earlier in this thread you said the following justifying that this was a black and white issue. But now I'm hearing that this is a gray issue...

Quote:

When you guys realize that life is much simpler (in certain things) then you will see the truth.

Life is not ALWAYS shades of gray.

Its been my experience that its only THAT in about 50% of the time. The rest is just black and white, right and wrong.

So... which is it again?

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Friday, July 23, 2010 11:18 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Its all of it. Shades of gray, black and white...

I just beleive that white/black happens more than most people WANT to believe.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Friday, July 23, 2010 11:18 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Its all of it. Shades of gray, black and white...

I just beleive that white/black happens more than most people WANT to believe.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Friday, July 23, 2010 11:24 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

It's shades of gray when arguing point A, and black and white when arguing point B, or whichever whenever to argue for whatever.

Which makes it somewhat frustrating to have a discussion when the person you're discussing a topic with vacillates with whimsy.

You have to kind of piece together their actual opinions from many diverse posts where they tend to repeat particular themes with regularity.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 11:59 AM

KIRKULES

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
There's more than just guns in this equation. It's not even a certainty that guns are the most important part of this equation.

You should name a few of the factors that you believe could account for the drop in murder. Do you think it's the disastrous economy and 14% unemployment rate. Liberals like yourself usually claim that crime is the inevitable result of unemployment, are you now claiming unemployment reduces crime.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 12:04 PM