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Why are French women killing their babies?
Friday, July 30, 2010 10:04 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:The question is as horrifying as it is important to ask: Why are a rising number of French women killing their newborn babies? Finding the answer has become a matter of urgency following the discovery on Wednesday of eight infants allegedly smothered to death and buried by their mother in northern France. And with that case marking at least the fifth instance of multiple infanticide reported in France since 2003, it has become vital for the nation to confront the phenomenon that appears to be behind it all: a mental condition known as pregnancy denial. This latest case of newborn murder in France was uncovered in the northern town of Villiers-au-Tertre, after eight tiny bodies were found buried in the gardens of two separate homes. Six of the cadavers were unearthed on July 29 by police at the house of Dominique Cottrez, 45, and her husband Pierre-Marie, 47. Investigators searched their home after the resident of a house previously owned by Dominique's parents turned up two tiny bodies on July 24 while digging a pool in the backyard. According to the French prosecutor leading the inquiry in the town, a short distance south of Lille, Dominique has admitted to hiding her pregnancies — and the killings of her babies — from her husband, whom police describe as being "dumbstruck" by the revelations. Dominique was charged for the murders; Pierre-Marie has been cleared of wrongdoing and released but could yet become a subject of investigation. "These women are so convinced pregnancy is impossible that once the child they never wanted arrives, they don't accept it as real and get rid of it to restore order to what they believe is nonpregnant reality," Delcroix says. "However terrible its consequences, pregnancy denial acts in infanticide cases much as a psychotic state that drives someone to kill another person does. Yet we still try women for what they do during pregnancy denial when we don't try psychotic killers deemed not responsible for their actions." Delcroix and others who are fighting for pregnancy denial to be medically and legally recognized as an illness argue that improving ways to identify and treat these women makes more sense than simply punishing the crimes they commit as a result of it. What causes the condition? Several things, Delcroix says, including previous trauma such as beatings and rape. But other, nonphysical factors can also be involved, and denial can kick in even if a woman has already had and raised children without a problem — Lesage has a 14-year-old son; Dominique Cottrez has two grown daughters. And while pregnancy denial has been around for decades or longer, Delcroix says it's rising in frequency. The probable reason, he says, is changes in wider social factors that have downgraded the value of childhood, parenting and family. But in some cases, it can also be a matter of women simply failing to see themselves as mothers. "Some women never manage to update their self-identity during pregnancy, [while others] want to become pregnant without wanting to procreate," psychiatrist Pierre Lamothe told Le Parisien on Thursday. "When the child arrives, it doesn't really exist for them. They don't give it life, in psychological terms. If they saw it as a [real] baby, they wouldn't kill it." Others just never realize — or acknowledge — that they're with child. Experts on pregnancy denial say most sufferers are either sufficiently overweight or experience such little body change that they simply assume they've gained some weight. In France, 230 women a year discover their pregnancy only while giving birth. Though just a fraction resort to infanticide, Delcroix fears there are more of those cases that remain undiscovered than there are ones that come to light, as in Villiers-au-Tertre. And he poses a chilling question: Does anyone really believe that the spreading phenomenon of pregnancy denial — and the infanticide it can lead to — is purely a French problem?
Friday, July 30, 2010 2:33 PM
ANTHONYT
Freedom is Important because People are Important
Friday, July 30, 2010 2:39 PM
RIVERDANCER
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: I knew the French were stupid (hey, I can be prejudiced, I'm half French!), but not knowing you're prgnant, or living in denial about it????
Friday, July 30, 2010 2:53 PM
KIRKULES
Friday, July 30, 2010 4:12 PM
Saturday, July 31, 2010 5:48 AM
KANEMAN
Saturday, July 31, 2010 5:58 AM
Saturday, July 31, 2010 6:00 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: I don'tknow, Anthoy. I think if there had been instances of MULTIPLE killings, more than one baby, in America, and it was increasing (or so I gather), it would have made national news, wouldn't it? Remember: If it bleeds, it leads, that's how news works. So why haven't we heard of FIVE instances of "multiple" babies being killed? Dancer, son't bother. There's nothing we can do about them except ignore them and remember they're here for a different reason than the rest of us. Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani, Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”, signing off
Saturday, July 31, 2010 6:25 AM
WHOZIT
Saturday, July 31, 2010 6:26 AM
Quote:Originally posted by whozit: My favoret dead baby jokes; Q) What's red, sits in the corner and cries? A) A baby eatting razor blades. ---------------------------------------------- Q) How do you unload a truckload of dead babys? A) With a pitchfork. Those arn't boobs, they're lies! - Stewie Griffin
Saturday, July 31, 2010 6:45 AM
AGENTROUKA
Saturday, July 31, 2010 6:58 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AgentRouka: Is it on the rise or are they just discovering more cases these days? There was a similar case in Germany a few years back. Multiple births, each baby murdered and buried in flowerpots in the garden. I think this is a specific disorder, what with the repetition and burying the children close-by. I do not think it is necessarily "on the rise" and I do not think it is specific to any country. These things probably happen everywhere. One thing that's certain is that these women are clearly, extremely mentally ill. As for not noticing if you're pregnant - if you're even slightly overweight and you don't tend toward the extremely round belly (some women don't) and generally don't pay attention to your body.. entirely possible. Denial is a whole other cup of tea and should never ever be underestimated. It's extremely powerful.
Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:12 AM
OLDENGLANDDRY
Quote:Originally posted by kaneman: Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: I don'tknow, Anthoy. I think if there had been instances of MULTIPLE killings, more than one baby, in America, and it was increasing (or so I gather), it would have made national news, wouldn't it? Remember: If it bleeds, it leads, that's how news works. So why haven't we heard of FIVE instances of "multiple" babies being killed? Dancer, son't bother. There's nothing we can do about them except ignore them and remember they're here for a different reason than the rest of us. Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani, Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”, signing off And what exactly are you here for? How about the rest of us?
Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:27 AM
Quote:Originally posted by oldenglanddry: Quote:Originally posted by kaneman: Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: I don'tknow, Anthoy. I think if there had been instances of MULTIPLE killings, more than one baby, in America, and it was increasing (or so I gather), it would have made national news, wouldn't it? Remember: If it bleeds, it leads, that's how news works. So why haven't we heard of FIVE instances of "multiple" babies being killed? Dancer, son't bother. There's nothing we can do about them except ignore them and remember they're here for a different reason than the rest of us. Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani, Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”, signing off And what exactly are you here for? How about the rest of us? Maybe if you looked into the parts of the U.S. that you dont like to acknowledge the existance of ( Mississippi, Tennessee, Louisiana, the more backwoods parts of the mid-west ect) you woud find more instances of this kind of thing than you would like. The U.S. media deals with the surface issues rather than reality.
Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:30 AM
Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:32 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Agent; I didn't know that, thank you. That adds perspective. And I certainly agree about the women. Oldengland: Another who can't figure out coding. One more sickpuppet, or just one who doesn't bother. I don't ignore those places you spoke of, you're just snarking. I disagree about the media; it's chock full of stories about murder, especially unique ones. Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani, Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”, signing off
Saturday, July 31, 2010 11:43 PM
MAGONSDAUGHTER
Sunday, August 1, 2010 12:29 AM
RIVERLOVE
Quote:Originally posted by kaneman: Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Agent; I didn't know that, thank you. That adds perspective. And I certainly agree about the women. Oldengland: Another who can't figure out coding. One more sickpuppet, or just one who doesn't bother. I don't ignore those places you spoke of, you're just snarking. I disagree about the media; it's chock full of stories about murder, especially unique ones. Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani, Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”, signing off I look forward to reading about your murder. I can see the headline now.... FAT DISABLED WOMAN'S HUSBAND CHOKES HER TO DEATH BY CRAMMING TWINKIES DOWN HER THROAT...SHE DIED SMILING.... How is that for unique?
Sunday, August 1, 2010 2:31 AM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Agent; I didn't know that, thank you. That adds perspective. And I certainly agree about the women. Oldengland: Another who can't figure out coding. One more sickpuppet, or just one who doesn't bother. I don't ignore those places you spoke of, you're just snarking. I disagree about the media; it's chock full of stories about murder, especially unique ones.
Sunday, August 1, 2010 2:36 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Magonsdaughter: Niki, I think infanticide is documented in many countries, including here (Australia, not Britain)...
Sunday, August 1, 2010 2:39 AM
Quote:Originally posted by kaneman: I look forward to reading about your murder. I can see the headline now.... FAT DISABLED WOMAN'S HUSBAND CHOKES HER TO DEATH BY CRAMMING TWINKIES DOWN HER THROAT...SHE DIED SMILING.... How is that for unique?
Sunday, August 1, 2010 6:35 AM
Sunday, August 1, 2010 6:36 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Hey Mike; suggestion accepted. It may take some time (I don't seem to be able to change my "generated" signature sometimes, so have to do it manually with every post). I was able to change it recently and it's good to get back to not having to do it every time. So I'll kill the codes at the end and try to change it to that; we'll see how long it takes me! I almost never "reply with quote" myself, so I didn't think about the fact that people had to do that every time. Don't worry about the mental fart; we all have them. Think I just had one in another post...oh, yeah, it was the "How can I prove I'm not Taliban" I think. Sometimes we have no power over where our brains go...it's like they have a mind of their own... I'll give it a try...let's see if it works: Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani, Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”, signing off
Sunday, August 1, 2010 6:45 AM
MAL4PREZ
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Hey Mike; suggestion accepted. It may take some time (I don't seem to be able to change my "generated" signature sometimes, so have to do it manually with every post). I was able to change it recently and it's good to get back to not having to do it every time. So I'll kill the codes at the end and try to change it to that; we'll see how long it takes me! I almost never "reply with quote" myself, so I didn't think about the fact that people had to do that every time. Don't worry about the mental fart; we all have them. Think I just had one in another post...oh, yeah, it was the "How can I prove I'm not Taliban" I think. Sometimes we have no power over where our brains go...it's like they have a mind of their own... I'll give it a try...let's see if it works: Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani, Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”, signing off Testing... Hey, got it! I'll try to change the "auto-sig"...bear with me if it doesn't work for a while, I'm not going to bother changing it manually every time.
Sunday, August 1, 2010 6:57 AM
FUTUREMRSFILLION
Monday, December 20, 2021 9:19 AM
JAYNEZTOWN
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