Government: We violated so many people that rights are meaningless by AnthonyT

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Government: We violated so many people that rights are meaningless

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Friday, August 20, 2010 15:56
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VIEWED: 1062
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Friday, August 20, 2010 9:08 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/08/eff-files-appeal-warrantless-wir
etapping-case

"Unless corrected, the District Court’s ruling risks creating a perverse incentive for the government to violate the privacy rights of as many citizens as possible in order to avoid judicial review of its actions."

Hello,

That says it in a nutshell. If this ruling stands, then the government is immune to prosecution due to the mere vastness of their crimes against the citizenry. This is akin to saying, "If you Rape one person, you go to jail. If you Rape a million, you are absolved."

Mea Culpa. Mea Maxima Culpa.

--Anthony

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Friday, August 20, 2010 10:11 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

And you (or others) wonder why Im so ready to fight a revolution?

Fuck this bullshit. Its gotten out of control.

Don't Tread On Me.

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Friday, August 20, 2010 10:15 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

It has gotten out of control, which is why people are litigating against it, and appealing these ludicrous decisions. Plan A oughtn't to be "Burn the House Down."

That's Plan Z.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Friday, August 20, 2010 10:22 AM

MINCINGBEAST

Easy there fellows. Has anyone read the court decision, or are you getting your information from the EFF's incensed response? If it is a standing issue, it could be a matter of a poorly plead complaint, not a perverse desire to rob you of your constitutional rights. I shall perform pains-taking and expert legal research, and then perhaps call you names.

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Friday, August 20, 2010 10:24 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Mince,

I look forward to any illumination you can bring upon us.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Friday, August 20, 2010 10:33 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"For the reasons stated herein, the court has determined
that neither group of plaintiffs/purported class representatives
has alleged an injury that is sufficiently particular to those
plaintiffs or to a distinct group to which those plaintiffs belong;
rather, the harm alleged is a generalized grievance shared in
substantially equal measure by all or a large class of citizens.
“njuries that are shared and generalized —— such as the right to
have the government act in accordance with the law —— are not
sufficient to support standing.” Seegers v Gonzales, 396 F3d 1248,
1253 (DC Cir 2005).
Accordingly, these actions must be, and hereby are,
DISMISSED with prejudice."

Hello,

I admit I'm not even a novice in regards to matters of law or legal language. But to my eyes this does look like, "When the U.S. screws everyone equally, nobody gets to cry rape."

I like how DISMISSED is in all-caps. I wonder if there's a legal reason for that, or if it's just a stylistic choice?

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Friday, August 20, 2010 11:06 AM

MINCINGBEAST

Please excuse my pedantry.

The all-caps is just a convention of order writing. Generally, the operative, magic-language parts of a decision appear in all caps. DISMISSED. DENIED. GRANTED. IT IS SO ORDERED. When I externed in a judge's office, it was always the raddest part of drafting an order. I would occasionally slip a THIS IS COMMAND into early drafts.

As far as "standing", that is a justicability doctrine--essentially it determines when judges may hear a case. Standing requires that the plaintiff have a concrete, particularized injury that the court may grant relief from. An generalized injury does not satisfy standing. For example, if Bytemite and Kwicko have their rights violated by a wiretap, and Rappy brings a suit to vindicate their rights, the court will refuse to hear the suit on the basis of standing.

If the plaintiff in this particular case could demonstrate that their rights were violated by a wiretap, then they should have had standing. Simple as that. However, if their brief plead that the wire tapping is illegal, then there is no grounds to find standing. Too general. So the principle could be more complicated than "the more the government fucks you, the less likely you are to redress the fucking." Maybe something like: plead narrowly. I can't say--I haven't gone over the papers in any depth. Just wanted to add that more goes on in this decisions than simple value judgments about what "the guvmint done wrong."

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Friday, August 20, 2010 11:10 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Well, I shall hope that the right wording finds the right people in the right way to address these wrongs.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Friday, August 20, 2010 11:24 AM

MINCINGBEAST

Well, words matter, sometimes too much, when they are a term of art.

I skimmed through Judge Fudge's decision, and must admit that I am surprised, and that Wulfie's knee-jerk response is more fitting than my faux-measured approach.

The named plaintiffs are plaintiffs by virtue of their status as customers of telecom companies implicated in the wiretap. The standing doctrine, as I understand it, would generally be satisfied by this alone. In fact, it was enough in a case that Judge Fudge cited. Hepting v AT&T Corp, 439 F Supp 2d 974 (ND Cal 2006). The decision indicates that the individual plaintiffs tried to frame their allegations very, very narrowly, which should have satisfied the standing standard.

Judge Fudge anal-ogized this case to well known instances were the public at large has no standing. For example, not just any asshole off the street can sue congress because they don't approve of the way their tax money is spent--even if it spent improperly. The political process, not the courts, are the remedy.

Essentially, the court held that "citizen suits seeking to employ judicial remedies to punish and bring to heel high-level government officials for the allegedly illegal" activities are not cognizable under the doctrine of standing. Wow. Worth thinking about for a bit, but my gut level reaction is that this is a bad decision, in that it errs on the side of exclusion from the judicial process. Lame.

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Friday, August 20, 2010 11:52 AM

FREMDFIRMA

I shouldn't say it, I really shouldn't, but since it's still going on full-blast, never you doubt it, all those promises to behave having no more meaning now than they did in the 50s after McCarthy and Hoover, or in the 70s after Church cleaned their clock, imma lob a grenade here, just out of sheer malice for them.

Every single bit of this shit is based on the same engine, PROMIS.

Break PROMIS, and you break THEM.

Imma catch it hot for that one, probably, but since no one else would dare...

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, August 20, 2010 12:00 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

Hello,

It has gotten out of control, which is why people are litigating against it, and appealing these ludicrous decisions. Plan A oughtn't to be "Burn the House Down."

That's Plan Z.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

Somebody smarter than us wrote:

Quote:
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Friday, August 20, 2010 12:09 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

What, this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosecutor%27s_Management_Information_Sys
tem

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Friday, August 20, 2010 12:53 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Kwick.. there are only 3

Soap

Ballot

Bullet

The soap has been used in terms of citizens creating the Tea Party

The Ballot comes in November.

The bullet?

We will see.

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Friday, August 20, 2010 1:06 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Is there some reason you don't like taking grievences to court?

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Friday, August 20, 2010 1:06 PM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
I skimmed through Judge Fudge's decision, and must admit that I am surprised, and that Wulfie's knee-jerk response is more fitting than my faux-measured approach.

It was a good effort, MB, and you were only trying to be rational. But I've found there are certain areas where assuming the worst about motives and agendas is the safest option. Even if you're wrong, you're at least prepared for when someone inevitably DOES take things the way you foresaw.

Psychology studies are one. The slow march of the justice system is another.

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Friday, August 20, 2010 2:05 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Kwick.. there are only 3

Soap

Ballot

Bullet

The soap has been used in terms of citizens creating the Tea Party

The Ballot comes in November.

The bullet?

We will see.

Ah, I see. You advocate murdering those with whom you disagree. So I'd be well within my rights to murder you, right?

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Friday, August 20, 2010 3:56 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Yes, that PROMIS.

And you know what ?
Fuck it, fuck secrets, the time for secrets is over, what can they do, shoot me ?

Yeah, I know how PROMIS works, and that them huge intel databases are just PROMIS laid overtop of existing databases which were "aquired" from everywhere, anywhere...

Come on, did you REALLY think all those "stolen" laptops and website cracks were just hackers having fun, that's classic black bag work, on companies who failed to comply with NSL data handovers.
Everything from medical records to car insurance, to "marketing data" via fronts like doubleclick and for damn sure all the credit companies, who've been handing it over meek as mice since the fifties.

And damn straight I know how PROMIS works, I helped the fuckers install it and get it to work, and you've no idea how that eats at me, although in my defense I was just a nihilistic kid showing off for the old codgers who couldn't figure it out, hate me as you will, for damn sure that's been eatin at me, day by day, for a great and many years.

You see, PROMIS is an overlay, simply hook it up to ANY database, no matter what it's written in, anything from COBOL to fuckin PERL, and PROMIS more or less assimilates it like the borg and pukes it round a corner back into itself and voila, you've full access to that database, lather, rinse repeat.

Which is what Main Core is - the sum total of ALL the databases PROMIS has ever assimilated, complete with sorting, indexing and search which makes even todays software look kind of sad by comparison.

But I was never a trusting soul even then, and you bet your sweet bippy I backdoored the installation, to which I had access via the legacy hookup of the 902nd MI Group, at least up till some well meaning nitwits torched the damn building it was in back in October 2006, although the "official" version blames the air conditioner.

Which meant any database PROMIS chewed up and spat down the line to the alphabet boys remained available to that installation and could be perused at whim - and no one asked any questions cause the whiz kid in question was one of the ISA's little pets.

Veritas Omnia Vincula Vincit
Truth Overcomes All Bonds

What a fucking joke, sure, they were collecting HUMINT and SIGINT, but 95% of it was on AMERICANS that could potentially prove a "threat", someday-maybe, and after the fiasco concerning Nicaragua, there weren't enough of em left alive to bother even keeping the pretense and they shitcanned the works.

What few were left dissappeared into the woodwork after they hung Valerie Plame out to dry, and they were replaced with the merry little torturers from the rendition programs, guaranteed to get what you want to hear, instead of the facts, no matter how unpleasant.

But everything goes somewhere, and PROMIS is the key, because of the way it is interconnected, being able to access PROMIS itself at administrator level will get you full access to any database that has ever been connected to that particular installation, which might not do you a lot of good from say, the county courthouse - but should you connect that installation to another installation, you'll then have access to the sum total databases of BOTH installations, and so forth, and so on.

The keys to the kingdom, as it were, which oughta explain a whole lot about wikileaks and how they managed to aquire and process so much information so damned quickly.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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