Sign Up | Log In
REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
There is no proposed mosque at Ground Zero
Sunday, August 22, 2010 4:54 AM
AURAPTOR
America loves a winner!
Sunday, August 22, 2010 5:06 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Sunday, August 22, 2010 5:08 AM
Sunday, August 22, 2010 5:14 AM
PENGUIN
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Nothing gonna remove you from your little fantasy world, is it Niki ? Even folks from across the pond can see this. Non bible believing, non Republican, not even American folks see this mosque for what it truly is. But not you.
Sunday, August 22, 2010 5:39 AM
PIZMOBEACH
... fully loaded, safety off...
Sunday, August 22, 2010 5:43 AM
Sunday, August 22, 2010 6:39 AM
Sunday, August 22, 2010 6:45 AM
Sunday, August 22, 2010 6:55 AM
PENNAUSAMIKE
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: There is no mosque proposed for Ground Zero. There is a COMMUNITY CENTER with a room for prayer proposed in New York,
Sunday, August 22, 2010 7:19 AM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Sunday, August 22, 2010 7:22 AM
Quote:Originally posted by pennausamike: Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: There is no mosque proposed for Ground Zero. There is a COMMUNITY CENTER with a room for prayer proposed in New York, If this thing gets built, I'd love to see the reaction if Jews and Christians attempt to hold prayer meetings or Bible studies in this "community center".
Quote: Anyone who doesn't realize that Islam does not separate social, civic, political and religious life and practices doesn't understand Islam.
Quote: The "community center" IS a mosque, pure and simple. Any belief otherwise flies in the face of the reality of the history of Islam unchanged over hundreds of years.
Sunday, August 22, 2010 8:26 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: And that differs from your typical Christian or Jew... how, exactly?
Sunday, August 22, 2010 8:28 AM
Quote:The idea of secularism in Islam means favoring a modern secular democracy with separation of church and state, as opposed to Islam as a political movement. It is often used to describe the separation of civil/government matters from religious theocracy. "Muslim theologians have long distinguished between matters of din [religion] and dawlah [state]."[1] Secular states had existed in the Muslim world since the Middle Ages. "A defacto separation between political power" of sultans and emirs and religious power of the caliph was "created and institutionalized ... as early as the end of the first century of the hegira," In fact, religious and political life developed distinct spheres of experience, with independent values, leaders, and organizations. From the middle of the tenth century effective control of the Arab-Muslim empire had passed into the hands of generals, administrators, governors, and local provincial lords; the Caliphs had lost all effective political power. Governments in Islamic lands were henceforth secular regimes - Sultanates - in theory authorized by the Caliphs, but actually legitimized by the need for public order. Henceforth, Muslim states were fully differentiated political bodies without any intrinsic religious character, though they were officially loyal to Islam and committed to its defense. Many of the early supporters of Secularist principles in Middle Eastern countries were Baathist and non-Muslim Arabs, seeking a solution to a multi-confessional population and an ongoing drive to modernism.
Sunday, August 22, 2010 8:30 AM
Quote: "It's a seed of peace," board member Rob Townley said. "We believe that this is significant step in the Muslim community to counteract the hate and fanaticism in the minority of the community." The vote was 29-to-1 in favor of the plan. The organizations sponsoring the project say they're trying to meet a growing need for prayer space in lower Manhattan, as well as provide a venue for the dissemination of mainstream Islam, to counter extremism. Bruce Wallace, who said he lost a nephew in the Sept. 11 attacks, stated "Here is a chance to allow moderate Muslims to teach people that not all Muslims are terrorists." The plan would include areas for interfaith activities and conferences and an arts center, as well as a swimming pool. Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer, who has been the target of disparaging remarks for supporting the plans, defended his position and denounced offensive speech directed at him or at Muslims.:”I want people to do is to take a look at the totality of what they are proposing," Stringer said. "What we're rejecting here is outright bigotry and hatred." Stringer made his remarks before the vote while standing outside the Park Place building, a former department store that was damaged by debris on Sept. 11. The paint on the building's facade is peeling, and dirt is accumulating on its columns.
Quote:The building in question is planned to be a Muslim community center, a sort of YMCA (or, I suppose, YMMA). The plans are for it to have fitness facilities (swimming pool, gym, basketball court), a 500-seat auditorium, a restaurant and a cooking school, exhibition space, a library, art studios, a 9/11 memorial and childcare. . But calling the entire building a mosque is a bit like referring to the Empire State Building as a 103-story Walgreens because the pharmacy chain has a store on the ground floor. Although somewhat architecturally daring does not contain minarets or other spire-like features that would give it greater prominence than an ordinary, 12-story building. Like dozens and dozens of other buildings, and several other places of worship near to Ground Zero, it would be quite well concealed among Lower Manhattan's dense street grid.
Quote:Two blocks from Ground Zero -- around the corner from the Glad Tidings Tabernacle and up the street from the Christian Science Reading Room -- stands a former Burlington Coat Factory outlet damaged on September 11th . If all goes as planned, it will soon house Cordoba House, a community center and mosque open to people of all faiths. Supporters of the initiative include hundreds of Muslims, Jews, and Christians who have known this couple and their work for decades and share their dream of a place to house a vibrant, pluralistic American Islam. As Daisy Khan, wife of Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf of the Cordoba Initiative, put it: "For us it is a symbol, a platform that will give voice to the silent majority of Muslims who suffer at the hands of extremists. A center will show that Muslims will be part of rebuilding lower Manhattan." The Reverend Dr. Joan Brown Campbell, former General Secretary of the National Council of Churches of Christ, agrees: "Building so close is owning the tragedy. It's a way of saying: 'This is something done by people who call themselves Muslims. We want to be here to repair the breach, as the Bible says.'"
Sunday, August 22, 2010 8:44 AM
Quote:IT IS NOT A MOSQUE. "The fact that you make this comparison displays an epic dismissal of the reality in the world around you."
Sunday, August 22, 2010 8:45 AM
Quote:is a monotheistic faith and the world's second-largest religion. Followers of Islam, known as Muslims, believe that God (or, in Arabic, Allāh) revealed His Will to Muhammad (c. 570–632) and other prophets, including Adam, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. However, that which was revealed to Muhammad was considered to be the final and ultimate revelation, and corrective of Jewish and Christian traditions. In Arabic, Islām means "submission" and is described as a Dīn, meaning "way of life" and/or "religion." Etymologically, it is derived from the same root as, for example, Salām meaning "peace" (also a common salutation). The word Muslim is also related to the word Islām and means "one who surrenders" or "submits" to God, or a "vassal" of God. Muslims hold that it is essentially the same belief as that of all the messengers sent by God to mankind since Adam, with the Qur'ān (the one definitive text of the Muslim faith) codifying the final revelation of God. Islam sees Judaism and Christianity as derivations of the teachings of certain of these prophets - notably Abraham - and therefore see them as fellow Abrahamic religions, and People of the Book. Unlike Christianity, Islam has not undergone any period of reformation; however, that is essentially the goal of various liberal movements within Islam. Islam has two primary branches of belief, based largely on a historical disagreement over the succession of authority after Muhammad's death; these are known as Sunnite and Shi'ite. The basis of Muslim belief is found in the shahādatan ("two statements"): lā ilāhā illā-llāhu; muhammadur-rasūlu-llāhi — "There is no god but God; Muhammad is the messenger of God." One needs to recite and believe these statements in order to become a Muslim. All Muslims agree to this, although Sunnis further regard this as one of the five pillars of Islam.
Quote:I believe in God; and in His Angels; and in His Scriptures; and in His Messengers; and in The Final Day; and in Fate, that Good and Evil are from God, and Resurrection after death be Truth. I testify that there is nothing worthy of worship but God; and I testify that Muhammad is His Messenger.
Sunday, August 22, 2010 8:57 AM
Quote:Oh, and if you don't like the Bible-study reference, go with something as simple as a pork roast.
Sunday, August 22, 2010 9:00 AM
Quote:Originally posted by pennausamike: Quote:IT IS NOT A MOSQUE. "The fact that you make this comparison displays an epic dismissal of the reality in the world around you." Time will tell...
Sunday, August 22, 2010 9:02 AM
Sunday, August 22, 2010 10:55 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: You seem pretty epically dismissive of reality yourself, y'know.
Sunday, August 22, 2010 11:09 AM
KPO
Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.
Quote:In May 766, it was elected as capital of the independent Muslim emirate of al-Andalus, later a Caliphate itself. During the caliphate apogee (1000 AD), Córdoba had a population of roughly 400,000 inhabitants,[4] though estimates range between 250,000 and 500,000. In the 10th-11th centuries Córdoba was one of the most advanced cities in the world, as well as a great cultural, political, financial and economic centre. The Great Mosque of Córdoba dates back to this time; under caliph Al-Hakam II Córdoba received what was then the largest library in the world, housing from 400,000 to 1,000,000 volumes.
Sunday, August 22, 2010 1:49 PM
Quote:Originally posted by pennausamike: Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: You seem pretty epically dismissive of reality yourself, y'know. Naw, I'm just dismissive of arguing with ninnies on the internet.
Quote: I don't really waste time on the bile spewed in RWD,
Quote: but I had a few moments to post a quicky lunacy-litmus-test.
Quote: Ya'll of the "community center" set passed with flying colors!
Sunday, August 22, 2010 2:21 PM
CATPIRATE
Sunday, August 22, 2010 2:44 PM
Sunday, August 22, 2010 3:06 PM
HKCAVALIER
Sunday, August 22, 2010 3:30 PM
Quote:Originally posted by CatPirate: AU, Now I have been saying this for years about the muslims they build on sacred ground for the mosques. Did I not say many time about that mosque in Ireland. It is in county mayo the furest western mosque in europe. Here is the religon of peace and love. 3rd century Bhudhas destroyed by muslims.
Sunday, August 22, 2010 3:31 PM
Sunday, August 22, 2010 3:33 PM
Sunday, August 22, 2010 4:18 PM
Quote:Originally posted by CatPirate: HK, listen to yourself about muslims. 9/11 I am not going to forget.
Sunday, August 22, 2010 4:38 PM
Quote:Originally posted by HKCavalier: So you honestly believe that building another mosque in lower Manhattan will bring us closer to another 9/11 attack? How exactly?
Sunday, August 22, 2010 5:04 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Did you miss the part about the video ? It's right at the top of the thread.... up there.
Sunday, August 22, 2010 5:18 PM
Quote:Originally posted by HKCavalier: ]One more mosque in lower Manhattan would not turn America into the EU. Not even close. But keep dreamin'. I'm sure OBL is having the same dream, AU. HKCavalier
Sunday, August 22, 2010 5:31 PM
Sunday, August 22, 2010 5:43 PM
Quote:Originally posted by HKCavalier: If I believed the proposed community center were a mosque, I would have said, "one more mosque will not turn America into the EU." But, as another mosque is not in the offing (there's already a mosque a few blocks away), I said "would," to indicate that your fears are, as usual, imaginary. And, sheesh, I watched the video before you even posted it here. I am well acquainted with Mr. Bug-eyes and his flaky, Chicken Little style paranoia. Chicken Little and the AURaptor...birds of a feather. HKCavalier
Sunday, August 22, 2010 5:56 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: So many people disagree with you, from both the right and the left, Americans and non Americans, it's nonsensical for you to try to spin this off as " Chicken Little style paranoia ".
Sunday, August 22, 2010 6:33 PM
TRAVELER
Sunday, August 22, 2010 10:42 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Quote:Originally posted by HKCavalier: If I believed the proposed community center were a mosque, I would have said, "one more mosque will not turn America into the EU." But, as another mosque is not in the offing (there's already a mosque a few blocks away), I said "would," to indicate that your fears are, as usual, imaginary. And, sheesh, I watched the video before you even posted it here. I am well acquainted with Mr. Bug-eyes and his flaky, Chicken Little style paranoia. Chicken Little and the AURaptor...birds of a feather. HKCavalier So many people disagree with you, from both the right and the left, Americans and non Americans, it's nonsensical for you to try to spin this off as " Chicken Little style paranoia ".
Monday, August 23, 2010 12:09 AM
Monday, August 23, 2010 1:33 AM
AGENTROUKA
Monday, August 23, 2010 1:40 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Almost 3,000 innocent people died on 9/11, and you want to compare that to " being fooled " by a radio broadcast ? There are no words......
Monday, August 23, 2010 2:37 AM
JONGSSTRAW
Monday, August 23, 2010 3:28 AM
Monday, August 23, 2010 3:43 AM
Monday, August 23, 2010 4:23 AM
Monday, August 23, 2010 6:39 AM
Monday, August 23, 2010 7:08 AM
STORYMARK
Quote:Originally posted by HKCavalier: Will you listen to yourselves? Who the have they conquered? You mean to say you honestly believe that if ANOTHER mosque were built in lower Manhattan (they already have one 5 blocks away from ground zero) that it would represent the defeat of our country? Who--besides you--would believe such nonsense, and why again should we care?
Monday, August 23, 2010 7:21 AM
Monday, August 23, 2010 7:31 AM
Monday, August 23, 2010 7:32 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: It's not " intolerance ". And frankly, I could care less what they think.
Quote: There are two main reasons this is an issue. " Islam " didn't show , to most here in the US, near enough outrage & sorrow over the attacks. Instead, we saw celebrating and cheering in the streets.
Quote: Also, Imam Rauf's own words, that we were " complicit " , and that OBL was " made in America ", don't help matters one bit.
Quote: Word is, even in this economy, construction workers are vowing to not build this mosque at that site. And that IS the main issue, not that it's a new mosque.
Monday, August 23, 2010 7:39 AM
Quote: This conflation of two different things is very irrational and does nothing to actually protect people, all it does is keep fear levels high by inflating the number of enemies from several specific small groups to one large monolith of a group.
YOUR OPTIONS
NEW POSTS TODAY
OTHER TOPICS
FFF.NET SOCIAL