REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

As Palestinians pushes for statehood, Israel finds itself more isolated

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 20, 2024 23:32
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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 8:46 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


The more things change, the more they remain the same...
Quote:

There are links between nations, cordial relations, firm bonds, alliances and strategic partnerships. But what Turkey and Israel had in mind just four years ago was something akin to being joined at the hip. The plan was to snake an extraordinary "infrastructure corridor" from Ceyhan in Turkey's south to Haifa in Israel's north, a thick bundle of pipes carrying crude oil in one, electricity in another, natural gas in yet another and in the fourth, a steady flow of fresh, sweet water, all thrumming along the floor of the Mediterranean Sea. Not only would these pipes serve as ties that bind two nations, but they would also show the world that a Muslim country could tether itself to the Jewish state, to their mutual benefit.

Which makes the events of the past few weeks all the more worrisome for Israel. With dizzying speed, Turkey has gone from offering oil and gas to Israel to threatening to send gunboats to the Gaza Strip to protect activists seeking to break Israel's naval blockade of the Palestinian territory. Enraged by Israel's refusal to apologize for its killing of eight Turks (and one Turkish American) on board a blockade-busting ferry last year, Ankara has ejected Israel's ambassador, downgraded diplomatic relations and imposed military sanctions on its former ally. And that "infrastructure corridor"? It's now a mere pipe dream.

This conspicuous unfriending could hardly come at a worse time for Israel. As representatives of 193 nations gather in New York City for their annual U.N. conclave, Palestinian leaders are polishing a statehood proposal that would change the fundamental terms of the Middle East's core conflict, possibly putting them on the same legal footing as Israel.

With most of the world sympathetic to the Palestinians, waylaying their application for statehood will require Israel to deploy diplomatic skills of the highest order. But its preparations have not been going well. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu warmed up for the big event by alienating the U.S. President, at once misquoting and lecturing Obama during Netanyahu's visit to Washington in May. Then there's the Arab Spring, which knocked over the Arab neighbor Israel relied on most, Egypt's Hosni Mubarak; last week, the Israeli embassy was attacked by protesters in Cairo while the riot police stood by. The spectacular collapse of the Turkey alliance makes three strikes.

The game's not over. Obama still plans to use the U.S. veto in the Security Council to deny Palestinians full membership. But they could take the matter to the General Assembly, where a vote would likely be lopsided, leaving Israel looking conspicuously isolated. Israelis approach the threats one at a time. The Netanyahu government is avoiding a diplomatic contre temps with Egypt, since the 1979 peace treaty between the two countries is crucial to Israel's defense. The U.N. is easier to criticize, and most Israelis feel it is generally biased toward the Palestinians. "We don't like the U.N.," says Daniel Reisner, a longtime peace negotiator and international-law specialist. "We don't trust it."

And Turkey? In a country where new homes are built with bomb shelters, diplomatic conflict is easily dismissed. "Turkey, Burkey," said Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, spiritual leader of the Shas party, a key member of Netanyahu's ruling coalition. "God Almighty couldn't care less about them. Who are they anyway?"

Although Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan was once hailed as a vital ally, many Israelis now regard him as a neo-Ottoman, out to revive Turkish leadership of the Muslim world by beating up on the Jewish state. That's certainly how they perceived Erdogan's performance in Cairo, where he said in a Sept. 13 speech to the Arab League that Israel must "pay a price for its aggression and crimes" and that supporting Palestinian statehood was "not a choice but an obligation." Israel, he said, is "the West's spoiled child."

Across town, Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas was meeting with the European Union's Foreign Minister, working on a strategy to avoid the U.S. veto in the Security Council. The Europeans were urging Abbas to settle for the status of a "nonmember observer state," akin to that of the Vatican, which he could get from a vote in the General Assembly — thus avoiding the U.S. veto in the Security Council.

That would be no consolation to Israel, however, because it would very likely give Palestine access to the International Criminal Court. There, it could bring charges against Israel for building settlements on occupied territory and allegedly driving out Palestinians — it would argue that this amounts to a war crime. That changes things. Even if Abbas promises (as a condition of E.U. support) not to rush to the Hague, the mere fact that he could do so hands Palestinians new leverage in peace talks.

Not that the Palestinians are anywhere near ready for talks. For negotiations with Israel to have real meaning, Abbas' Fatah party must first reconcile with Hamas, uniting the West Bank and Gaza into one entity after new elections promised in May. But intra-Palestinian parleys have stalled: the two parties can't even agree on the time of day. Literally. In Gaza City, a university associated with Fatah keeps daylight time, while the Hamas school next door sets its clock with Egypt, an hour behind. "We are one people," wails Rewaa Fanouna, 21. "We ought to be united at least on the time!"

In any event, what Palestinians want most, after 44 years of Israeli occupation, is something the U.N. bid cannot deliver: immediate change on the ground.

Israel, meanwhile, seems unperturbed by the loss of so many friends. Netanyahu seemed willing to sour relations with the White House because he was confident it would play well back home: his selective quotation of Obama's call for a Palestinian state based on 1967 borders (leaving out the crucial qualifier "land swaps") was a hit with the Israeli public.
.....
But it's not clear if Obama can head the Palestinians off at the pass in New York City. Averting a U.N. vote would depend on a credible promise of progress in peace talks, but Netanyahu has continued to sanction the steady expansion of the settlements on the West Bank. The White House has repeatedly asked him to freeze the construction of settlements on occupied land, and the Palestinians say they won't sit down to talks while the building continues. "From what we see, the construction is speeding even in settlements deeper in the West Bank," says Hagit Ofran of Peace Now, an Israeli group that monitors settlement construction. "So it doesn't seem, at least on the ground, the government is doing anything in favor of peace." More at http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2093351,00.html the back of my head, echoes of "Where do we go...from here?" There NEEDS to be a Palestinian state, but it sounds like Israel has become so big-headed there's no hope for one. Awfully sad.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 8:50 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!







" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 1:32 PM

DREAMTROVE


We're in a sorry state as a party if all Auraptor has to do is to post the actual campaign poster of 2008.

That said, he has a point. Obama's expansive mideast conflicts have forced the situation. Also, One thing about supporting Israel is you can't support them into idiocy with the idea that we'll always have their backs. The showdown with Turkey is pure idiocy. Ankara has one of the world's largest armies. They can crush Israel like a bug if they want to.

Select to view spoiler:


The unofficial word from the EU is that this is the real reason there is so much trepidation about Turkey joining: It would automatically become the most powerful nation in Europe.




That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 1:51 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"They can crush Israel like a bug"

Hello,

I'm not convinced that any nation can crush Israel 'like a bug.' I think the process would be much more like crushing some kind of predator, with the likelihood that you'll lose a limb while you're at it.

It also does very little good to have a large army if that army is not as well trained and motivated as the army of your enemy. I think anyone who wants to march into Israel will have to pave the road with their own blood.

Israel does not have the largest army in their region, but I believe they do have one of the most effective.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Friday, April 7, 2023 4:10 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Israel strikes Lebanon, Gaza after rocket salvo from Lebanese soil

https://www.macaubusiness.com/israel-strikes-lebanon-gaza-after-rocket
-salvo-from-lebanese-soil
/

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Saturday, October 7, 2023 2:42 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


At least 200 killed, 1,100 wounded in Hamas attack on Israel, rescue service says
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/2023/10/06/at-least-200-killed-1100-wound
ed-in-hamas-attack-on-israel-rescue-service-says
/

Palestinian militants launch dozens of rockets into Israel. Sirens are heard across the country
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-hamas-rockets-airs
trikes-tel-aviv-11fb98655c256d54ecb5329284fc37d2


Israel Latest: Netanyahu, Biden Speak With Nation on War Footing
https://financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/israel-latest-netanyahu-bid
en-speak-with-nation-on-war-footing


will the States and Kingdoms and nations of islamics condemn mass murder and rocket attacks?

Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iran say Israel has only itself to blame for Hamas attacks
https://thehill.com/policy/international/4243388-saudi-arabia-qatar-ir
an-blame-israel-hamas-attacks
/

An Israeli woman is abducted by Hamas and taken hostage. This is unprecedented. You don’t see this happening anywhere else.
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1710596139626660211

Palestine tower leveled after Israeli strikes in Gaza
https://twitter.com/TheInsiderPaper/status/1710682510672433251

‘We are at war,’ Netanyahu says, after Hamas launches devastating surprise attack
https://www.timesofisrael.com/we-are-at-war-netanyahu-says-after-hamas
-launches-devastating-surprise-attack
/

Pentagon says it will support Israel after Netanyahu declares war
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4243366-pentagon-says-it-will-suppo
rt-israel-after-leader-declares-war
/

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Saturday, October 7, 2023 3:41 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The way Israel treats Palestinians, Palestinians are living in an open-air prison. It's the equivalent of how the Jews were forced into the Warsaw ghetto in WWII.

Palestinians are surrounded by a wall and barbed wire. Anyone traveling from Palestine to Israel or vice versa must pass thru a dozen checkpoints. That makes emergency services non-existent in Palestine.

Palestinian land is taken and turned into Jewish settlements, olive groves are bulldozed, houses knocked down. Water and electricity are restricted. Palestinians have no vote. Unemployment is high. Israeli army routinely patrols Palestine. Throw a rock, you get shot. Or your family's house gets knocked down.

Israel is a JEWISH STATE. Being a citizen is restricted to Jews. The laws of Israel enforce Jewish religious practices. It is as much a religious state as Saudi Arabia. Zionists believe that they're genetically superior to Arabs.

Israeli Jews, for the most part, are NOT democracy -loving liberal westerners. Get a grip, JAYNZE. I know you have a permanent fear and hatred of Muslims, but just bc someone is against Muslims doesn't mean they're good people.

Squeeze people hard enough, long enough, and they will revolt. IMHO that's what's happening.


-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Saturday, October 7, 2023 5:37 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


People still get me wrong

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Israeli Jews, for the most part, are NOT democracy -loving liberal westerners.





LMFAO I never said they were
and its very strange how people fall back into the Default Team A vs B, Left vs Right, Conservative vs Liberal

if you want my opinion
I typically say F--K Them Both!

but Israel is more educated and sophisticated than an Arab stoning each other to death over some offense to Al-La or the Arab going to the Mosque so many times per day, the Jewish in Israel will educate themselves in security or farm technology, educate themselves in war or banking or whatever value forward thinking a little more than Arabs.

The whole of the Middle East is a Giant Lunatic Asylum killing itself, Arabs blitzed a self righteous Israel bombing civilian area of a nation that has overwhelming fire power...they do not expect a response. Are the islamics so kamikaze?

Both of these sides will not tell you they LOVE War only because the Broken Record on Repeat Blasting Endless War justifies the insanity of each other.

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Saturday, October 7, 2023 7:10 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
People still get me wrong
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Israeli Jews, for the most part, are NOT democracy -loving liberal westerners.


LMFAO



Yes!
It's so funny how Israel is ethnically cleansing a whole group of people!

/snark

Quote:

I typically say F--K Them Both!

Liar.

Shall I pull up thread after thread after thread of YOURS where you constantly demonize and denigrate ALL Muslims, not just the Saudi-influenced Wahhabists?

Could you find an equivalent number of your posts demonizing Zionists?


C'mon, JAYNZE. We're all familiar with your posts. Don't try to convince us that you feel otherwise.



-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Sunday, October 8, 2023 11:08 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Shall I pull up thread after thread after thread of YOURS where you constantly demonize and denigrate ALL Muslims, not just the Saudi-influenced Wahhabists?






Do put them up if you want because I give zero fucks I wrote what I wrote but...


I never said all, I said some muslims can have a qood quality as individual people

However I am ANTI-Religion when it comes to islam, I have called the culture SHITLAMIC,
the culture stabs writers when they come to NewYork screaming out war cries of Al Lahhu Ackbar as the crazy psychopath islamics have done for thousands of years.
I have compared it to the Aztec death cult of human sacrifice, I have compared it to both Fascism and Communism, I have compared islamics to child abusers. For me jihadi way or islamist way is oppressive and it is a culture of terrorism, I have mentioned they mutilate the genitals of little girls and marry them off as young as six just as mahomet did, I mention they have little boys dress as girl prostitutes the Bacha Bazi
Muhammad used to dress up in women's clothing
He had sex with his dead Aunt
He married a 6 yr old girl who was his favorite wife
Moohamed Raped Animals

You should read the Quran or Koran and see what kind of man Mahomet was

He demonizes himself, he would have visions and suffer its, Moohammad's encounter with "Gabriel" deeply disturbs him, and Muhammed himself wonder if maybe an Angle did not vist him but a Demonic Monster or Djinn, in the islamic texts Moohmamad himself thinks he is perhaps speaking with devils or demon possessed.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Could you find an equivalent number of your posts demonizing Zionists?






Just go into an of the old PirateNews threads where I say Mossad where helping human trafficker pedophiles like Epstein, you can go into any one of those Who dislikes the Israeli government debates or US Aid for Israelis and Building a Wall for Israel Debates.

I might have also called JEWELSTAITEFAN a Zionist, he btw supports the bombing of the USS Liberty and sounds like an islamic terrorist or a spokes person for Irgun or Etzel a Zionist paramilitary organization or at times he sounds like a NeoCon a dual citizen.

The funny thing about Zionists is you don't have to be a Jew Israeli to be a Zionist, little Bush, Hillary, McCain, Bolton, there is some British leadership also became some of the Biggest 'Zionists' and many of them are not Jewish

But the thing is as crazy and dumb as these religious Zionist Israeli Jews can be, they will never be as stupid as a mohammedan

'Moses' is a story you can respect

Read up on Mahomet and tell me what kind of person the islamics pray to

and all these neighbors and islamic brothers of theirs rich Gulf States in the region don't want to really help them, they will fund a suicide bomber maybe, a guy will auction himself to be blown up and pay for the debts of the family
but in the end all they are are useful pawns to stir Anti-Israeli hatred, they bomb something and Israel sends out the Aircraft to bomb and blitz them back in a never ending cycle of war.


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Sunday, October 8, 2023 4:40 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


You know the beginnings of Israel, right?

Quote:

;Within three years, (of 1907) about 10,000 dunums, an old land measurement equivalent to acres, had been acquired in the Marj Bin Amer region of northern Palestine, forcing out 60,000 local farmers to accommodate Jewish arrivals from Europe and Yemen.

...

In January 1915, Liberal Party politician Herbert Samuel drafted his secret memo The Future of Palestine, which was circulated among the Cabinet and in which he backed annexation and the country gradually becoming an autonomous Jewish state under the protectorship of the British Empire.

...

The British government’s Balfour Declaration followed on 9 November 1917, formally declaring support for the establishment of a “national home for the Jewish people” in Palestine in a letter between David Lloyd George’s foreign secretary Arthur Balfour and Jewish community leader Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild, effectively assuming ownership over a land that many would argue it had no legal right to give away.



And fuck the people who were already living there. That's Imperial Britain for you!

Quote:

As the decade progressed, mass protests began to erupt opposing Jewish immigration as the Palestinian movement tried in vain to counter and resist what its members considered a usurpation backed by the military and diplomatic muscle of imperial Britain.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/why-israel-and-pa
lestine-conflict-war-history-b2426050.html


And Palestinian resistance -and severe Israeli repression and reprisal (and war crimes and crimes against humanity)- have continued ever since.

Now that you know, you can't claim ignorance.

Also

Quote:

Gaza is in essence a refugee camp (about 70 percent of those living in Gaza come from families displaced from the 1948 war) and an open-air prison, according to human rights groups. The United Nations describes the occupied territory as a “chronic humanitarian crisis.” Israel has blockaded Gaza since Hamas assumed control of the territory in 2007, and neighboring Egypt to the south has also imposed severe restrictions on movement.

https://www.vox.com/2023/10/7/23907912/israel-palestine-conflict-histo
ry-explained-gaza-hamas


Netanyahu cynically tells Palestinians to evacuate.

How?

Unless Palestinians have a nation and homeland of their own... one which includes Israel giving back "settlement" land, and Jerusalem becomes accessible to all three religions that consider it to be holy land (Christians, Muslims, and Jews) violence will continue.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Sunday, October 8, 2023 9:15 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


A big Oops happens when Philistines seem to have Greek or Desi Hindi DNA or Italian?

Greek, Cretan, or Sardinian
https://greekreporter.com/2023/10/08/ancient-philistines-greek-origin-
dna

or they might have even come as far as the Iberian peninsula Spain...so if Arabia was not islamic?
The story of a giant Goliath was killed by a young shepherd later known as King David, a well-known Philistine story in the Bible.
not an islamic people as well as the use of an Aegean script and a notable consumption of pork

Stop the islamist Occupation of ancient Non-muslim Lands?

We know where cultures have been in history, the Jewish languages, the Yiddish speakers, Judeo-Tat or Juhuri in the the Caucasus Mountains, Semitic languages of Africa or Judeo-Marathi mixing with Hindu people in India revived Hebrew, the difference between a Turkish or Iranian or Moroccan or Bangladeshi

a Jewish woman with her own perspective and claims

Quote:

What's happening in Israel is not decolonization. It's the rage of an empire that once colonized the entire Middle East, North Africa, the Levant and parts of Europe, lashing out against a people who reestablished their indigenous homeland against all odds.


https://twitter.com/TeaOnSundey/status/1711072115607445723



So many claims of ownership



but What is the difference between a Palestinian and a generic Arab from the region?

An interesting questionnaire for Palestinian Advocates By Yashiko Sagamori

Quote:

Choose any date in history and tell what was the approximate exchange rate of the Palestinian monetary unit against the U.S. dollar, German mark, GB pound, Japanese yen, or Chinese Yuan on that date.


https://www.aspentimes.com/news/a-quiz-for-palestinian-advocates/

If you are so sure that ” Palestine , the country, goes back through most of recorded history,” I expect you to be able to answer a few basic questions about that country of Palestine :

When was it founded and by whom?
What were its borders?
What was its capital?
What were its major cities?
What constituted the basis of its economy?
What was its form of government?
Can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Arafat?
Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation?
What was the language of the country of Palestine ?
What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine ?
What was the name of its currency? Choose any date in history and tell what was the approximate exchange rate of the Palestinian monetary unit against the US dollar, German mark, GB pound, Japanese yen, or Chinese yuan on that date.
And, finally, since there is no such country today, what caused its demise and when did it occur?

You are lamenting the “low sinking” of a “once proud” nation. Please tell me, when exactly was that “nation” proud and what was it so proud of?

And here is the least sarcastic question of all: If the people you mistakenly call “Palestinians” are anything but generic Arabs collected from all over — or thrown out of — the Arab world, if they really have a genuine ethnic identity that gives them right for self-determination, why did they never try to become independent until Arabs suffered their devastating defeat in the Six Day War?

I hope you avoid the temptation to trace the modern day “Palestinians” to the Biblical Philistines: substituting etymology for history won’t work here.

The truth should be obvious to everyone who wants to know it. Arab countries have never abandoned the dream of destroying Israel ; they still cherish it today. Having time and again failed to achieve their evil goal with military means, they decided to fight Israel by proxy. For that purpose, they created a terrorist organization, cynically called it “the Palestinian people” and installed it in Gaza , Judea, and Samaria . How else can you explain the refusal by Jordan and Egypt to unconditionally accept back the “West Bank” and Gaza , respectively?


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

That's Imperial Britain for you!





Let me write a little timeline all the way up to Britbongs in WW2 but even after this event there are so many players in the region

The true ruler of that part of the planet is a Giant Cosmic Grim Reaper, a weird century spanning Angel of Death


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

And fuck the people who were already living there.





Do you know how many dozens upon dozens of people possibly hundreds can claim they were living there before Jews or jihadi islamics arrived

and Yes FuckThem

while at the same time I would say if Israel is attacked of course it is totally justified to defend itself
it does however use overkill

For peoples that claim to have a special link to that region, they don't every culture there is an invader and a hijacker

Nobody is special, many bloodlines go back to that region. Hundreds of Cultures can claim to own the insanity of Sand Box shithole

even some Crusader type can claim to be as legit as anyone else


,


and if you want to be technical and truly accurate about it

a long time ago there were types of Farmer people doing writing and Art and Cave men making trinkets there they might relate to culture of pre Babylon, women making clothes from animal skin and animal fur and knitting and making garments to wear, it might have been linked to a pagan people in Persia or pre Hellience TurkGreece, the Wadi Suq culture India or ancient Arabia, a culture from Anatolia Umm Al Nar culture, the people linked to cultures of the Ubaid period, the Cyclades the Mycenaean
Let's call them Pre-Jerusalem Cave-Men Artists, not Islamist not Jew but as much of a claim to the region as anyone else.

This ancient culture was killed and murdered by other Sand Raiders

after a numbers of battles and genocides
along comes the new culture called the Canaanite who kill the previous Sand Raiding culture.

then comes an Egyptian, guys who build Pyramids and have an expanding Empire almost as big as the world has seen

another people the Assyrian ...ALREADY LIVING THERE!

Jews and Especially islamics are Late Arrivals

When Jews do arrive another story of Merchantmen Stele, also known as the Israel Stele a possible battle between Egyptians and Canaan and Jews

Almost every time a people and culture pops up in the sand box it was successful because it murdered and raped and slaughtered the previous culture

In story of religion from Jews and Christian Bible texts you read about invaders in Old Testament accounts, “Children of Israel” arrived and killed and conquered beating the previous guys, this may not just be religion stories but true conquest happenings backed up by archeological digs.

Mesha comes along more battles Edom, the Ammon, the North and South people, Kingdom of Damascus, Philistines and Phoneicians, Nabateau Tribes, Aramean people, Arubu tribes, the Amalek type, Mesha tells how Chemosh, the god of Moab, had been angry with his people and had allowed them to be subjugated to the Kingdom of Israel, but at length, Chemosh returned and assisted Mesha to throw off the yoke of Israel and restore the lands of Moab, recordings in Proto-Hebrew or Paleo-Hebrew scripts, more Canaanite campaigns.

Babylonian comes along, the Baylonians destroyed their temple send Hebrew people into exile

Neo-Assyrian Empire, starts killing and murdering, they say I should Rule this place, my language and ancestors and religion and culture rule here from long ago connections

Macedonian Greek guy comes along, says who the F--K are you guys we are Greek moving from Persia to Egypt to Arabia and Turky and Europe, Greek Macedonia man says F--K You!
get Lost to everyone Greeks are already there in Jerusalem so Greek Macedonia man comes in and wrecks everyone, even smashes his way all the way to India and Afghanistan and stomps on any ancient Afghan who so much as looks it him strangely


The Greek descendants of Ptolemy come back, a new Egypt funky Cleopatra type Kingdom, they kill all and say I OWN THIS PLACE

Seleucid, Macedonia Mercs want Their Land back they claim they own it and More Greek-Macedonian legacies of Alexander.

Jews are cast out far from Jerusalem they are down by Yemen and the Horn of Africa, down near Oman the Jewish culture hides, the Himyarite Kingdom appears to have abandoned polytheism and converted to Judaism

Maccabees come along they were a group of Jewish rebel warriors who took control of Judea, which at the time was part of the Seleucid Empire

Rome mashes all, says they behaved like scumbags and asked for Jesus Christ to be executed, the Jews get back into Jerusalem but are destroyed by Jewish–Roman wars

Mar-Zutra a Jewish Exilarch who led a revolt against the pre-islamic Iranian Persian Sasanian rulers, a leader in Mesapotamia and within the Jewish community in Babylon anotehr uprsing and conquest and counter attack and another people and culture wiped out and replaced

Another series of blood and war decades and century and another set of mass murders and wars and battles, Iran and East Rome and the Jewish revolt against Heraclius was part of the Byzantine–Sasanian War they were not sure which side to back but 'revolted' to try make a new Jew-World, outcome Jewish surrender and expulsion, the Jews are driven out into Europe, across North Africa and into Asia

Byzantine and Rome politically fights itself, an Empire which split into Eastern and Western Empires.

Finally
ISLAM
arrives
a mass murdering pervert and pedophile called 'mahomet' wants everyone joining islamism

Jews join the islamist who attack Europe, the Moors are said to have entrusted to Jews the guardianship of the conquered cities of Spain, Roman Empire decays, eventually Eastern Rome dies and gets weaker Greece falls to Turkmenistani invaders. Franks, Spanish reconquest, Polish at Vienna, Christian Semitic Crusaders from Malta counter attack and kill the islamic invaders which have genocided most of the old cultures of the Middle East. Jews join with islamists and fought side-by-side with Egyptian Fatimid soldiers to try keep Jerusalem Jewish fighting against Christians who wanted to destroy islam, Jews join with the Arab Caliph. Crusader comes along it sounds like Moohammad is praying to Satan and islam the religion of the Anti-Christ so they go Thomas Jefferson and Barbary Wars style and start killing in the name of Jesus and Bible and so they established Crusader states, most notably the Christian Kingdom of Jerusalem.

Then islamics are back murdering, its Mamluk of Egypt who wants to rule Jews and Palestine

Ottoman Turks are in now genociding Armenians, making Jerusalem Turkish again

Arab don't like Turks so they kill and want it an Arab muslim islamic state

Britbonistan Empire, the Naval ships of Great Britain

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Monday, October 9, 2023 3:49 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I had a detailed reply, and then Firefox hung.

So this will be short.

Basically, what you seem to by saying is that many cultures lived in that area, that they died off or killed each other off or were superseded by other cultures, and that nobody has a claim to the land. That is the nature of migration, colonization, and genocide. To the victor belongs the spoils.

So, I guess Swedes and French and the rest of Europe should just... yanno.,.. welcome their new inhabitants? Turn over their houses and land to the new arrivals?


Because, yanno, that's what you're expecting Palestinians to do.
There WERE people living there ... Muslims AND JEWS... before Jews from Europe took it over, and Palestinians have been fighting displacement ever since. (Apparently you didn't bother to read three whole paragraphs on Israel's creation.)

A second state wouldn't need to be created excpet that Israel refuses to include non-Jews.

****

Also, JAYNZE, I don't appreciate by extensively MISQUOTED (Among other things, that whole riff about Palestine being a "proud nation"), which you did frequently and with gusto,. You're either abysmally stupid or dishonest.

I've been pretty tolerant of your blatant prejudices and delusions, but I'll be sure to point them out now. You and SECOND are quite a pair!



-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Monday, October 9, 2023 7:05 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Not every muslim is a terrorist, sometimes individual muslims can have a quality.

Sometimes both are one and the same but sometimes the Jewish can be a slight improvement
I'm no fan of the Jewish State its disproportionate response overwhelming fire power against some nasty kids throwing rocks. However look at the other team, the culture of SHITLAMICS are constant losers, it is a bad idea to support the culture.

Right now there are clips of islamics going home to home and shooting motehrs and fathers, they are killing older mouthy sisters that disrespected al-Lah in front of their little Jewish brothers and sisters, hijacking family and live streaming, inflicting trauma upon children
in social media videos you can see islamics going around door to door to Jewish homes and killing and hijacking and abducting and taking people hostage

What you see now in social media and on news videos is women, probably most Israeli Jewish some bound and gagged, some of them clearly beaten, blood patches on the buttocks side of their clothes clearly signs of trauma or maybe the were even violated, just as reporter Lara Logan experienced sexual violence in Egypt, one of the first known instances of taharrush gamea and Arabs using Rape as a weapon reported in the Western media

Maybe there will be worse to come, Al-Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS style beheadings of captured people as Israel gets ready to counter
and it will hit back with huge force

the endless cycle continues?


an older quote

Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:


It also does very little good to have a large army if that army is not as well trained and motivated as the army of your enemy. I think anyone who wants to march into Israel will have to pave the road with their own blood.

Israel does not have the largest army in their region, but I believe they do have one of the most effective.




maybe the balance of power changes

This is Hamas currently firing on Israel.
There is NO WAY this group has the funding for this level of operation without Irans support!


https://twitter.com/AshishAhiran2/status/1711200347455377638

A number of people allege they say US made guns in social media feeds

Some also say all that equipment left behind in Afghanistan, some of it is going through Iran and making it all the way into Palestine


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

before Jews from Europe took it over





Jews are from North Africa, the Horn of Africa, they are even in Hindu India regions today, they were still in Arabia and yes also in Europe
and do you know what many of them had in common, after WW2 there was lots of sympathy for them and many of them wanted a State almost they all wanted a Jewish State, Ashkenazi, Sephardi and Mizrahi Jewish populations of the Jew diaspora which even today show significant amounts of shared Genetic DNA and Middle Eastern ancestry.

if you want to be technical about it the original jihad islamists who might not originally be Terrorists and maybe not be genocidal Warlords the original islams come from Mecca, maybe Medina, everything after this is expansion and was spread by way of savagery, rape, beheadings, mass murdering, camel rape, genocide etc

Everything after this is about islamist occupation of non muslim land

Iran was Persian, Sumerian people, Egypt, Greek, Achaemenid Empire, Parthian Wars, Neo-Assyrian, Sasanian peoples and Babylon, Zoroastrian religions and Paganism, Mesopotamian culture it had huge art and math before the evil the Muslim conquest
then a camel jacker pedophile jihadist islamist called Moohammad comes along, they put up huge resistance to fighting islamics but eventually fall to the terrorist pedophile expanding islamic Empire

The islamics invaded Greece and the Balkans in the East and they invaded Spain through North Africa.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

French and the rest of Europe should just... yanno.,.. welcome their new inhabitants?




France is a disaster now, the French probably will do some kind of surrender before some other culture like the USA comes in once again to save their ass and bail them out, they have become a pathetic people and have not truly won a war in many years, they could not stop Rwanda genociding itself, they sometimes win against a random village in Africa with some wannabe Dictator-General they did win against Libya but needed backing from the USA, NATO, the British and the aftermath caused a flooding of millions of islamic immigrants to Europe and gun running to ISIS
Mali they don't know what to do
and France has collapsed so many times and it will soon be in its Sixth Republic now?

Poland has fight left in it

Sweden, not sure

sometimes in history if you do not fight for your land you do not keep it, and even when you do fight even from caveman times, you need to be up to date on the latest tech be it spear or bow and arrow or bullets and canon or a magic religion book of faith expansion or internet cyber or whatever.
People and cultures get screwed over and land beaten and land stolen all the time, it has been a brutal part of human history
the United States of America and Mexico and Brazil and Chile and Argentina and Canada, would not exist today if not for expansion into these newworld lands


We do not have a time machine, we can not change history but we can learn from it


Let's look at the Australian Native Aboriginal culture, it still exists even though Europe Empires expanded

if the Dutch and British had not arrived in Australia

who else? if you had a time machine and wanted to take generations of Europeans back to their 'Home'...Who else would there be Joe Stalin making Australia unique Eurasia Russian? The islamic Bangladesh, Sunni Shiite, Saudi Iranian and Malaysian expanding islamist Empire, would they have supported Aboriginal culture of genocide them as they do to Armenia or Yezidi?
Or would an expanding Japan have taken Australia, maybe they would let them live and put them in Labor Camps as they did to Koreans?

They left Africa a long time ago, the Aboriginal is even longer out of African than European genetics, Would Aboriginal stories about the sky and the Earth and the Stars have survived, Oral tradition, would their Hand Art and Songs have survived?
If you gave Australia to Israeli Jew types or Arabs would the Would Jewish or Islamics have saved their Aboriginal culture.
Would Japan have kept something of the Aboriginal culture Alive?
would religion types have taken offense to any type of Pagan or Shaman belief amongst them. Do you think a islamist Palestinian jihad or Jewish Zionist or Stalinist or Imperial Japanese would better save Australian ancient culture?

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

There WERE people living there ... Muslims AND JEWS... before Jews from Europe took it over,




and like I said there were people and cultures there BEFORE the arrival of jihad Muslims and go back again before the arrival of Jews there were people before them.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Also, JAYNZE, I don't appreciate by extensively MISQUOTED (Among other things, that whole riff about Palestine being a "proud nation"), which you did frequently and with gusto,




I'm not quoting you but I'm quoting an article and referring to many of the Left during the Bush and Obama and Trump years here.

There are places I could quote you. You claim to know the faiths in the region but still will not tell me what kind of person this 'Mahomet' or Moohammad was who founded islam?

in the meantime enjoy a cartoon and a little bit of Pat Boone




quote

To make this land our home
If I must fight, I'll fight to make this land our own
Until I die this land is mine

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Monday, October 9, 2023 12:04 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
Not every muslim is a terrorist, sometimes individual muslims can have a quality.
Sometimes both are one and the same but sometimes the Jewish can be a slight improvement
I'm no fan of the Jewish State its disproportionate response overwhelming fire power against some nasty kids throwing rocks. However look at the other team, the culture of
SHITLAMICS are constant losers, it is a bad idea to support the culture.



Yanno what they say, JAYNZE: If you say something and then say "BUT" or "HOWEVER" (or equivalent) you've negated everything you just said and are about the say the opposite.

"I love you. BUT ..."
"I'm not fan of Israel. BUT ..."
"Some Muslims are great people. HOWEVER ..."

Your prejudice against "SHITLAMICS" comes thru, LOUD AND CLEAR.


Quote:

Right now there are clips of islamics going home to home and shooting motehrs and fathers, they are killing older mouthy sisters that disrespected al-Lah in front of their little Jewish brothers and sisters, hijacking family and live streaming, inflicting trauma upon children
in social media videos you can see islamics going around door to door to Jewish homes and killing and hijacking and abducting and taking people hostage

OH, THE POOR JEWS!! They did nothing wrong!!
/snicker

And you think Israel doesn't do this.
The only diference is that videos of Palestinians being killed doesn't make it on western media.
You should read Eva Bartlett. She lived and reported from there for years.

Quote:

Maybe there will be worse to come, Al-Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS style beheadings of captured people as Israel gets ready to counter
and it will hit back with huge force


If they Palestinians were smart, instead of enacting revenge on individuals, they should chain them to random parts of Gaza City and let Israel bomb them.


Quote:

JAYNZE A number of people allege they say US made guns in social media feeds
So I've heard. Some also say these were weapons given to Kiev that "somehow" leaked their way onto the black market.

Quote:

JAYNZE Some also say all that equipment left behind in Afghanistan, some of it is going through Iran and making it all the way into Palestine
The only way to do that is by ship or air. Gaza doesn't have an airport and its small port facility is controlled by Israel. The only thing I can figure is that weapons are being sent to Egypt and smuggled via tunnel into Gaza.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
before Jews from Europe took it over

JAYNZE: Jews are from North Africa, the Horn of Africa, they are even in Hindu India regions today,


Yes, and there are lots and lots of them here, in the USA.
So what?

Stop trying to distract from the actual history that it was primarily Jews FROM EUROPE who colonized Gaza.

Quote:

they were still in Arabia and yes also in Europe
and do you know what many of them had in common, after WW2 there was lots of sympathy for them and many of them wanted a State almost they all wanted a Jewish State, Ashkenazi, Sephardi and Mizrahi Jewish populations of the Jew diaspora which even today show significant amounts of shared Genetic DNA and Middle Eastern ancestry.



If there was so much sympathy, why not give them a piece of Germany? Or the USA?

Quote:

JAYNZE blah blah blah

SIGNYM:
French and the rest of Europe should just... yanno.,.. welcome their new inhabitants?

JAYNZE: France is a disaster now, the French probably will do some kind of surrender before some other culture like the USA comes in once again to save their ass and bail them out, they have become a pathetic people and have not truly won a war in many years, they could not stop Rwanda genociding itself, they sometimes win against a random village in Africa with some wannabe Dictator-General they did win against Libya but needed backing from the USA, NATO, the British and the aftermath caused a flooding of millions of islamic immigrants to Europe and gun running to ISIS
Mali they don't know what to do
and France has collapsed so many times and it will soon be in its Sixth Republic now?

Poland has fight left in it

Sweden, not sure

sometimes in history if you do not fight for your land you do not keep it,



And this is EXACTLY what Palestinians are doing.

So they shouldn't be? They should just welcome their occupiers... yanno, the ones who stole their land and destroyed their homes and olive groves and fields, who herded them into an open-air prison and made them not even third-class citizens, people with no rights. Who patrol their streets and shoot them at random (BTW I worked with a Jew who went to visit Israel and he came back and told me that the IDF sees itself as nothing more than riot police and that they view Palestinians as vermin. Israeli Jews were also very open about stealing the Golan Heights from Syria for its water) interdict their electricity and water and trade, leaving them entirely dependent?


Quote:

JAYNZE: And like I said there were people and cultures there BEFORE the arrival of jihad Muslims and go back again before the arrival of Jews there were people before them.
Yeah, but SO WHAT? They haven't been there for thousands of years.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Also, JAYNZE, I don't appreciate by extensively MISQUOTED (Among other things, that whole riff about Palestine being a "proud nation"), which you did frequently and with gusto,

JAYNZE: I'm not quoting you but I'm quoting an article and referring to many of the Left during the Bush and Obama and Trump years here.

Well, if you're going to dispute me, don't bring up something I never said.
It's as dishonest as SECOND.

Quote:

JAYNZE: There are places I could quote you. You claim to know the faiths in the region but still will not tell me what kind of person this 'Mahomet' or Moohammad was who founded islam?
Can you tell me who "Jesus" was, or even if he existed? Who founded Judaism? Who founded Hindusim?

From what I gather, Mohammed was originally something of an outcast, and he preached a tolerant version of Islam. It wasn't until he found a patron in one of the many warlords in the Middle East that lived by raiding, pillaging, stealing women - yanno, as usual- that his preaching bent towards justifying what his patron was doing. It kind of snowballed from there: the more successful the warlord was, the more the war like religion succeeded.

From whst I gather, the Q'uran is a bit like the Bible: it contradicts itself partway thru.

If you look at Xtian history, it's one of barbarism (Crusades, endless war between religious sects, colonization, exploitation, genocide, torture... Xtianity can't exactly claim to be a religion of peace and love either, no matter WHAT the New Testament says.

Point is that religious texts don't translate to behavior. There are millions of Muslims who don't follow that "convert or crush, kill, destroy" message. Syria, Lebanon, Iran ... they're not funding terrorists who go around the world beheading people. The Saudis ... our friends... are particularly warlike and some of the Royal Family fund this kind of nonsense.

IMHO the reason why Israel uses disproportionate and overwhelming force is because they KNOW they did wrong. They KNOW they created a powder keg, and they're just trying to keep it from exploding. But the more they try to contain it, the bigger the explosion will be. Unless, of course, they exterminate Palestinians to the point where they're no longer a force to be reckoned with, just like we nearly exterminated indingeous people here, or like Britain did in many places.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Monday, October 9, 2023 2:50 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Why are jihadi islamic young hooligan Palestinians so troublesome when compared to other Arabs or Druze living in the Heights.

Maybe the Palestinians are a bunch of generic but unwanted jihadi Arabs and if they share much with the Arabs of the region why are they not helped. Palestine wants to be backed up and there are many who can help them, the influential Arab state or rich Arabs in the region...why does nobody want the State, nobody wants to rule that Gaza region, it has resources, has a nice sea front, it has sun and farm area, possible sea ports so why does nobody want these psychotic inbred rapist violent psychopath Arab Mohammedan criminal hooligan delinquents from Palestine. Gaza it would have old historical items from Egypt, Rome, the Ottoman Empire, events recorded in Jewish and Christian texts, the Christian Crusaders, the Mongols some daggers or arrows left behind by Hulagu Khan, Greek heritage. With all this potential a tourism port or site there must be something 'Wrong' with a lot of these people in the region...so why does nobody see them as helpful and useful, you have in the region Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait who are very similar cultures but they don't want the people of Gaza the Palestinian they have enough problems.

That other side of Israel, Jordan once took the Location of the West Bank within the claimed territory of the State of Palestine, but the people were a Nightmare, too much of a headache so Jordan ends up casting it out and gave it back to nobody because nobody wants them.
adding to the nightmare headache is Israel won it but doesn't seem to want it so much but Israel also has a bunch of 100s of thousands of expansionist Israeli settlers who move into the region and live in the West Bank, then you have the Oslo Accords trying to figure the whole mess of garbage and religious nonsense out. Arabs were also stupid enough to lose a war while fighting Israel, firing down upon Israeli Jews from the and so Golan Heights are a rocky plateau in Western Asia that was captured by Israel from Syria but people have been poking around in the region for a while the French-Jewish banker Baron Edmond de Rothschild bought a large tract of land for Jewish settlement in the Golan; he was followed by other globalists and Jews and Monarch type and other groups in the United States, Canada, and Europe, it has less 'Palestine' people, it is mostly the Druze faith is like one of these New-Age Masonic Globalist type new religions and incorporates elements of Isma'ilism, Christianity, Gnosticism, Neoplatonism, Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Pythagoreanism, and other philosophies and beliefs and a lot of Syrian and Druze Arabs and in 1981 Israel perhaps the region proving itself useful it gets sucked in, Israelis unilaterally annexed the area.

Lebanon once the 'Paris of the Middle East' took a bunch of these idiots in and it was rewarded by islamists hijacking the place with Sharia Law and Lebanon going into a Civil War.
Can you just blame the French for it all? blame the USA? or Did Palestinian refugees or refu-jihadis turn a beautiful Lebanon into Hell and Terror
the Switzerland of the Middle East gone?
an influx of thousands of Palestinians in 1948 and 1967 contributed to the shift of Lebanon's demography




That ABBA song seems as relevant as any other stupid religion

and the SHITLAMIC they were said to have Libraries and Wisdom and yet stupid enough to insult the Mongol
Before the Mongol arrives
the islamic raids and kills first
they raid areas ruled by Jews, Christians, pre islamic Persians, Pagan Greek and the bandit islamic, the final stamp of approval they had to do was to take credit for these discoveries; robbing the actual discoverers of their accomplishments and proclaiming it as "nothing" short of a miracle from their pedophile terrorist Moongod Al-Lah

I wonder if dumbass islamics good at murder, kidnapping and war simply held other scientists from other pre-islamic cultures hostage

a lot of the "Islamic" science scholars seem to have been forced to covert later or others who contributed to it were ex-Muslims.

'The myth of the Islamic Golden Age'
https://dyneslines.blogspot.com/2006/02/myth-of-islamic-golden-age.htm
l


The gods may throw a dice. Their minds as cold as ice
And someone way down here
Loses someone dear


If you think about it a bunch of Genghis Khan types from Mongolia seem to have as much claim to 'Gaza' as any other group does




Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The only way to do that is by ship or air. Gaza doesn't have an airport and its small port facility is controlled by Israel. The only thing I can figure is that weapons are being sent to Egypt and smuggled via tunnel into Gaza.




Yes indeed Tunnels just as Mexicans go under the fence and stuff can be dumped at sea and picked up by others even if the coast is militarized stuff does get through

While Israel is better fortified

islamics can also throw stuff over a fence, break through a gap in the Wall or Dig Under

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Stop trying to distract from the actual history that it was primarily Jews FROM EUROPE who colonized Gaza.




but you see they don't control Gaza,
I know you don't believe in ghosts or scifi entity....but let's stop and think outside the box for a moment, imagine there could be something controlling people's minds like a special chemical smell or an AI maybe you will see something new, maybe the are controlled by a unknown force, a Cult, Terror or 'Fear'.
it is the zombie ghost corpse of a dead terrorist pedophile named Mahomet who controls Gaza, a yiddish Jew in Europe doesn't control Gaza
islamism once again occupying a land which was non-moslem

and do you know who has the true power the inbred crazy Jew Arab type the Mizrahi Jews banging their head and nodding next to that stupid Wall
they even expand into Arab land
the military is forced to protect their insane religious ass
and they never have to do service because they are exempt and too crazy

Not all Mizrahi are crazy not all Yiddish Ashkenazi are crazy not all Sephardi are crazy, some are competent people, some are company owners or politician and former member of the Knesset or business people all with their own ideas. Soros in an Ashkenazi Jew but I don't think he truly believes in Israel he seems to be the godless type or a weird globalist who once worked for the Nazis as a kid and thinks of himself as a God, the Rothschild are probably Ashkenazi but I don't know if they have disclosed their bloodline and DNA as other Jews have done, maybe afraid they would be exposed as non-Semites, Ehud Barak prime minister he was Ashkenazi also a pervert who hung around with Epstein. Some Separdic Jews stayed around Morocco, Portugal, Tunisia, France, Algeria, North Africa, Spain, Claude Cohen-Tannoudji a smart guy who got a prize in Physics, there are other Separdic politicians or ministers but There is no United Borg-like Jew front, they fight and debate among their own as Americans are crazy and debate, they are different tribes and factions, it is almost a caste and class system, studying each other's lines and heritage, it as different and crazy and divided, religiously loony and schizo as it can possible be, 61% of Israeli Jews were of full or partial Mizrahi/Sephardi ancestry, the current bunch arriving the last year are probably an increase of Jews from Russia or Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:


From what I gather, Mohammed was originally something of an outcast, and he preached a tolerant version of Islam.





if Mohammed was so 'tolerant' as a preacher why did they kick him out? Mecca was so multi cultural it contained 360 idols, they prayed to as many as 360 different gods or cultures or religion idiols from different peoples and faith.
If they were so open minded and accepting what could Mohammed have done to get himself chucked out?

Just speculation of course as if we consider he existed as people like Moses or Jesus could have existed.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Yanno what they say, JAYNZE: If you say something and then say "BUT" or "HOWEVER" (or equivalent) you've negated everything you just said and are about the say the opposite.






yes there is a point to be stated and if that 'BUT' is a word of truth maybe it should be at least considered if not accpeted
the islamics literally kill people for cartoons or music or Rushdie writing a piece of literature
and I will use the word but here
BUT
How can you defend a so-called culture that stabs people when they come to NewYork to speak about their book, they literally murder people over jokes or funny toons, they will their own for not being islamic enough

They literally murder their own for becoming Ex-muslim Atheists and murder and rape each other and beahead and stone each other to death for becoming an Apostate of islam

I'm no fan of Israel but shitlamic culture is far worse, and yes I will use the word BUT
Jews turned a desert into a garden but the islamic before them they have turned the hanging gardens of Babylon into an islamic dustdowl and to what end goal, so you can go to the mosque and pray to a terrorist pedophile five times per day? the islamist jihad maybe is like the kamikaze of old, it is the only culture that Flew Planes into High Buildings while people in America phoned in reports of muslims in celebration, Howard Stern and other radio and news shows got reports of muzzies dancing on rooftops

as bad as Jewish militant actions are can they ever be as bad as islamics who happily went around Batlan theatre in France and the attackers happily killed 130 people, including taking their time using torture, 90 dead at the Bataclan theatre, everywhere in the world outside an embassy in Argentina, in Thailand, in Philippines they bring their stupid islamic problems with them.

They are so pathetic at warfare they maximze murder with the targeting of women, old men and children.
all of them
ganging up and attacking Israel together, in a so called 'fair fight' still can not win
the Jews might be self righteous but they usually hit in response to an event
This 'islam' mindset is a whole other level of depravity

if you think about it the Arab culture even with military sophistication and training and some what disciplined is still a culture of born losers
a Six Day War and you had
Egypt
Syria
Iraq
Saudi Arabia
Kuwait
Lebanon
Pakistan
all teamed up to attack Israel at the same time

and they were still losers

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Can you tell me who "Jesus" was, or even if he existed? Who founded Judaism? Who founded Hindusim?





I would estimate that people like Jesus or Moses probably existed, you can do your own history by reading religion texts or look at archaeological digs or historical fact, a man named Jesus was record by Romans, Jews and Pagans, or some form of new Christian cult or Messiah Iesous, or Jesus Christ, Iesu, or Gesu or Yesho or Christos, Messiah, recorded in Greek and Latin writings as a Prophet with the 'Son of God title or Pauline epistles Hebrew and Aramaic name Yeshua, Rome was know for many recordings of art and history they were expected to record the world accurately and a Roman historian and senator Tacitus referred to Jesus, the Jews wanting him dead and his execution by Pontius Pilate, and the existence of early Christians in Rome, Mishnah Jew tradition texts might refer to Jesus as it reflects the early Jewish traditions of portraying not accepting him as a true Prophet Messiah but said Jesus as a sorcerer or magician. Flavius Josephus also recorded a Jesus, Flavius was Roman–Jewish historian and military leader he was known for writing The Jewish War, he was born in Jerusalem—then part of the Roman province of Judea.

Hinduism is old very old, people are unsure if these stories have an historical or archeolohical realism to them, far older than Buddha and Moses and Jews, the Hindu faith might be one of the older religions, Hindu synthesis emerged after the Vedic period, major scriptures of which are the Vedas, from a Western person Hinduism might share more with ancient Greek or Egyptian culture, Hindu faith is polytheistic, with many characters and stories and many gods and goddesses, some put this Jahbulon Cerberus three headed looking creature the Hindu Brahma as the Big-God above all gods but other Hindus might think Vishnu or Shiva or Devi or Krishna or some tripply looking monkey elephant thing are more important, Vedic Indian culture might have even extended down as far as the Middle East.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:


If you look at Xtian history, it's one of barbarism (Crusades, endless war between religious sects, colonization, exploitation, genocide, torture... Xtianity can't exactly claim to be a religion of peace and love either, no matter WHAT the New Testament says.





I'm not pushing any religion on anyone but and yes I'm using the word BUT

The difference here is when Christians engage in murder they are going against the teachings of Christ while islamics are following teachings of Mahomet to the letter
Moses also seems like a good strong compassionate Leader who is leading his people to an improved life, unlike Mahomet who is basically a mass murdering terrorist pedophile

If you want to look at stories of Moses and Jesus and Moohammad as fairyland stories that is fine
but today people are believeing in Mahomet and willing to carry out mass murder in the name of a dead islamic pedophile who founded islam

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

IMHO the reason why Israel uses disproportionate and overwhelming force is because they KNOW they did wrong.





I think its just Rage and Wrath, the Temperature of the Region and the Sand Blocking up people's ears that stops them from listening to the other side.

I know maybe some of the Jewish texts or a little of the Torah or Babylon Talmud Texts of Rabbinic Judaism, the read like nonsense the radical parts of Christian text and radical part of islamic jihad ways sometimes shares much with them. I am more familiar with the Old Testament and the Old God of the Old Jewish Christian Bible, I often came across a Bible and in the Old Testament the God person was something of a badass. Although not all Jews are the same and there is a sect of Messianic Judaism that says Jesus was the Messiah, Messianic Judaism claim that the movement is instead a form of Judaism, and yet different again from 'Messiah in Judaism' a expected prophecy of a savior and liberator figure in Jewish eschatology, who is believed to be the future redeemer of the Jewish people and overall Jewish belief is that the Messiah has not yet come, the Torah tells Jews a Prophet Elijah will appear on Earth just before the Messiah arrives and that the dead will rise from their graves.
The old God of the old Testament he wasn't really like Jesus preaching, this God was MIGHT he didn't forgive so easy
A Common remark is the God of the Old Testament God is one of vengeance and 'Wrath' while the God of the New Testament is more chilled out
A command about winning and Righteousness, the God of the OT seems to me to be a lot harsher and more violent than the New one
Jews don't follow the New one much, Judaism teaches that Jesus was not the Messiah they follow teachings of the old Wrath God, the Bible a book with its own debates about canon within Christianity itself and it was written by a lot of different people, the New Bible letters are almost entirely focused on the message of Jesus, they want to explain a new philosophy a religion way of life and converting people into this new faith... that is not to say the New Testament is always peaceful, the Book of Revelation does make up for the hippie New Testament teaching stuff by finishing off with lots of fire and crushed buildings and death and explosions and blood and people being sent to hell and the arrival of an Apocalypse.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

The Saudis ... our friends... are particularly warlike and some of the Royal Family fund this kind of nonsense.





I never wrote words that supported these guys, I have said they are two-faced and some of the worst wahabbist terrorist supporting scum.
Iran and Saudi, two different flavors of the same islamic crap

'Tears of Jihad'
http://cspipublishing.com/statistical/tears_of_jihhad.html
The Tears of Jihad refers to the deaths of 270 million people over a 1400 year period. They were all killed for the same reason. They did not believe that Mohammed was the prophet of Allah. These figures are a rough estimate of the death of non-Muslims by the political act of jihad.


Anyhow as terrible as this event and loss of life will be you should enjoy the song and cartoon
The Exodus Song 'This Land Is Mine'

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Monday, October 9, 2023 8:08 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
Why are jihadi islamic young hooligan Palestinians so troublesome when compared to other Arabs or Druze living in the Heights.

Because they're living in a much worse situation.
Next..?

Jordan is a client state of the USA.

Religions in pre-Islam Arabian peninsula.

AFA "If Mohammed was so tolerant why was he kicked out of Mecca?" I can't believe that someone of your intelligence would ask such a question!

Because I could ask: If JESUS was so tolerant, why was he crucified??

Quote:

Arabian polytheism, the dominant form of religion in pre-Islamic Arabia, was based on veneration of deities and spirits. Worship was directed to various gods and goddesses, including Hubal and the goddesses al-Lat, al-‘Uzza, and Manat, at local shrines and temples such as the Kaaba in Mecca. Deities were venerated and invoked through a variety of rituals, including pilgrimages and divination, as well as ritual sacrifice. Different theories have been proposed regarding the role of Allah in Meccan religion. Many of the physical descriptions of the pre-Islamic gods are traced to idols, especially near the Kaaba, which is said to have contained up to 360 of them.

Most long-established religions seem to become encrusted with priests, religious bureaucrats, and secular powers. Since all of those people are benefitting from the current religion, they'd be resistant to change. It wouldn't be so bad if Allah was just one of many gods (what's one more??) but he was supposed to be THE god. The One And Only.

Pfffffft! There goes the power structure! At least, that's what I think happened in Mecca.

I have nce again point to behavior and regions texts not having much to do with each other. In fact, one part of a religious text often has little resemblance to another part. Yanno, kind of like SECOND'S posts.

So there were extremely long and violent... genocidal, actually... Christian eras. And many Muslims aren't the jihadists that you think. Assad (Syria) is far more tolerant than Bibi (Israel), for example. Saudis arent like Yemenis, and Malaysians aren't like either one. And individuals are individuals everywhere.

Stop lumping everyone into one basket. That's ignorance and prejudice.

------------

"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Tuesday, October 10, 2023 11:57 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Let me make something clear up front. The Hamas attacks on Israeli civilians on Saturday, especially the massacre of the kids dancing in the desert, is a war crime and should be punished in the same way that those responsible for executing Ukrainian Jews at Babi Yar were punished. Those responsible include the shooters, the military planners and the commanders responsible for that operation. Ditto for those who have abused captives. A captured civilian must be treated as a non-combatant and not harmed.

While I understand the grief and outrage of Israelis and their supporters around the world, anyone calling for the mass slaughter of the people who live in Gaza also are supporting a potential war crime. Here is the appropriate military response– You punish those who planned, organized, funded or carried out attacks against civilian targets. You do not wantonly kill civilians. The Hamas attack on Israeli military positions, by contrast, is not a war crime. Just good old fashioned, ugly war.


https://sonar21.com/back-to-the-future-with-iran-and-israel/


-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Tuesday, October 10, 2023 12:42 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Outrage After Israel Told Gazans To Flee To Egypt, Then Bombed Lone Border Crossing
Tuesday, Oct 10, 2023 - 08:20 AM

On Tuesday morning Israel bombed the Rafah crossing in the Gaza Strip, which is the only border crossing that Palestinians are able to use to flee to Egypt.

Hamas has claimed that the crossing has now been rendered impassable. "The Israel Defense Forces said Tuesday afternoon that it hit an underground tunnel for smuggling weapons and equipment in the Rafah area, on the Egypt-Gaza border, but did not confirm or deny hitting the crossing itself," the Times of Israel is reporting.
. . .

In the Gaza Strip, the death toll continues to soar as mostly civilians are experiencing the brunt of the retaliation after the Hamas terror campaign of the last days, with the the Palestinian health ministry saying the number of people killed has risen to 830, with 4,250 wounded, as cited in Al Jazeera.

Total blackout in Gaza as Israel has declared full siege...

Hospitals in Gaza are also reportedly overwhelmed, as gruesome scenes of wounded and dead men, women, and children continue to come out of the war-ravaged strip.

Rhetoric out of Israeli officials has continued to dehumanize all Palestinians in the strip, in an attempt to provide cover for the mass bombing campaign of militants and civilians alike...


MORE, WITH VIDEOS AND LINKS, AT https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/outrage-after-israel-told-gazan
s-flee-egypt-then-bombed-lone-border-crossing


To be fair, the IDF clarified its call for Gazans to evacuate to Egypt by saying that they should evacuate designated areas in Gaza. OTOH, not reported is the fact that Israel made use of Gaza's enforced dependence on Israel by putting Gaza unde total seige

Quote:

Gaza under 'complete siege' as Israel cuts food, water, electricity

https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/national/gaza-under-complete-siege-as-
israel-cuts-food-water-electricity/video_a103e607-7df2-5a33-82bd-bc65d24ceeb1.html


And OF COURSE...

Quote:

Zelensky Bizarrely Blames The Israel-Gaza Conflict On Putin
"Russia is interested in triggering a war in the Middle East." pic.twitter.com/uww0EeF3i2



-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Tuesday, October 10, 2023 12:52 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Rumors of weapons from Afghanistan?

Explained: How Hamas Gets Weapons In Gaza Despite Strict Border Control
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/explained-how-hamas-gets-weapons-in-ga
za-and-the-taliban-connection-israel-gaza-war-gaza-airstrikes-gaza-4468096


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:


Because I could ask: If JESUS was so tolerant, why was he crucified??




Strange how you defend this nasty pedophile terrorist Jihad mahommed character and attack other religions?

It depends how you interpret texts. The story from this time says a guy the Messiah Iesous, or Jesus Christ, or Son of God Messiah Claimant, Iesu, or Gesu or Yesho or Christos or Jesus became the Target of both Roman and Jews, a story where you had Jesus expelling the merchants and the money changers from the Temple, they did not like this new Messiah Cult.
a religion person might say 'Jesus' died so he could spread the message or Jesus sacrificed himself for people or Jesus died so that sins might be forgiven or some spiritual message, Jesus found himslef on the radar of Rome and in conflict with the Religious and Military authorities of his time. Maybe even Jesus argued to help the sick with cures or to forgive a prostitute or do 'magic' miracles make water into wine or that Roman commercialism had corrupted Jewish society.
Make of the story what you will in the Bible and other religious texts, there is also historical writing from the time. Some people argued in favor of the events as true and historicity of the Passover pardon narrative, quoting evidence of such pardons from Livy's Books from the Foundation of the City, Josephus's Antiquities of the Jews, Papyrus Florence, Pliny the Younger's Epistles and the Mishnah. That Mel Gibson movie had an interesting take Roman's were like police Tyrants and also the 'Chosen People' or 'Christ Killers' had a role, they asked to 'Free Barabbas' a guy pardoned and released by Roman governor Pontius Pilate at the Passover feast



The accepted narrative is Jews got offended by his Messiah claim wanted him dead and Roman soldiers needed for the cruel killing, to carry it out.

People who pray might believe it real, maybe its just a story

only islamics will blow people up for offending their pathetic terrorist pedophile Moongod

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Stop lumping everyone into one basket. That's ignorance and prejudice.




I never did I said some individual muslims have human quality or an invidual can have quality as people

All of them however pray to a camel jacking pedophile terrorist named Mahomet


back to the news

'American Hostage Had Arm Blown Off in Hamas Attack, Mom Says'

https://www.yahoo.com/news/american-hostage-had-arm-blown-163153915.ht
ml


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Tuesday, October 10, 2023 1:29 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I refuse to even acknowledge any of this is going on.

We've had to listen to the bullshit about Russia and Ukraine for most of Biden*'s presidency so far after 2.5 years of Covid, and now they're getting all the idiots to talk about Israel/Palestine.

Fuck Israel. Fuck Palestine.


I bet even Child Rapist Zelensky would agree with me on that one right about now.



--------------------------------------------------

Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Wednesday, October 11, 2023 1:16 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

U.S. Plans To Ethnically Cleanse Gaza

This is, presumably, the U.S.-Israeli plan for the Palestinian people in Gaza:

Harry Sisson @harryjsisson - 1:44 UTC · Oct 11, 2023

Amazing: President Biden is working on a plan with other countries that would allow civilians to safely leave Gaza and cross the border into Egypt. This is great news. President Biden is making sure that innocent people don’t die due to the actions of Hamas. That’s leadership.


No, it is not leadership. It is ethnic cleansing, a war crime disguised as humanitarian gesture. It is ethnic cleansing of people who's land has been stolen by Zionist settlers. These people would have no right of return to the homes and land they once owned. People who have been put into an open air prison, who have no access to electricity, water and food and are currently under intense attacks.



MORE AT https://www.moonofalabama.org/

Biden* involves us in yet another clusterfuck.

OH BTW we've been hearing bullshit about RUSSIA! since before Trump's Presidency. How many years has that been by now?

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Wednesday, October 11, 2023 1:22 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


And NATO sticks its nose in...

Quote:

NATO Condemns Hamas 'Terrorist Attacks' Against Israel

By AFP - Agence France Presse
October 7, 2023

The North Atlantic Treaty Organisation condemned Saturday "terrorist attacks by Hamas against NATO partner Israel" , a spokesman for the defence alliance said.



https://www.barrons.com/news/nato-condemns-hamas-terrorist-attacks-aga
inst-israel-10c074e1


-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Thursday, October 12, 2023 2:09 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Fucking Israel...

Quote:

Israel Bombs Damascus & Aleppo Airports Before Iran's Foreign Minister Due To Arrive
Syria is one of the GOOD GUYS. UNLIKE ISRAEL, it is truly a multiconfesional state. Shia, Sunni, Alawites, Christians, Druze... all welcome, PROVIDED YOU'RE NOT A TERORIST. Syria has been fighting Saudi-supported terrorists - ISIL, al Qaeda - for years.

USA has had it in its plans since before 9-11 to destroy a whole bunch of Middle East nations for Israel.

Our Middle East policy was formulated by the Project for a New American Century (PNAC), a think tank headed by William Kristol (Jewish family) and Robert Kagan (Jewish family). NOTE that Kagan and his wife, Victoria Nuland, are also authors of our policy to regime-change Ukraine and use it to destroy Russia.

They certainly don't lack for chutzpah!!

PNAC envisioned a world under USA domination, with Israel being our regional enforcer. ISRAEL's foreign policy at the time was co-written by Netanyahu (then, as now Israel's Prime Minister) and a bunch of Jewish neocon Americans who would ascend to power in the GWB administration (Feith, Wurmser, Perle). "A Clean Break" policy paper had a list of five middle east nations to be destroyed for Israel:

Quote:

Shortly thereafter, an elite group of U.S. foreign-policy wonks concocted a manifesto for the new administration in Tel Aviv ... It was called “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm.” The membership of the “Clean Breaker” ‘club’ is notable. It included certain neoconservative luminaries who would later take up important positions within the George W Bush administration. After the events of 9/11, they went on to play forceful roles in the development and roll-out of its Greater Middle East policy, one whose disastrous legacy is still very much a work in progress.

According to Anti-War’s Dan Sanchez, the ‘Clean Breakers’ — including leader Richard Perle, David Wurmser, along with Douglas Feith and John Bolton and others — nominated Iraq first as a candidate for regime change. After Iraq, Libya and Yemen would then become ‘stepping-stones’ to overthrowing Bashar al-Assad in Syria, with Iran next on the list. As Sanchez says, the essence of the Clean Break manifesto went like this: “The weight of its strategic allies would tip the balance of power in favor of Israel, which could then use that leverage to topple the regimes of its strategic adversaries by using covertly managed ‘proxy forces’ and ‘the principle of preemption.’ Through such a ‘redrawing of the map of the Middle East,’ Israel would ‘shape the regional environment,’ and thus, ‘[Israel] will not only contain its foes; it will transcend them.'”



Israel's policy has been to destroy any Middle East nation that represented a challenge to its total dominance, just as USA's foreign policy has been destroying any nation of regional significance before it challenges our total world dominance (Russia, China).

Netanyahu has been working on this since (with USA help) at least 2001. He is now involved in a "Greater Israel" project that seeks to expand Israel to its Biblical boundaries and rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem, destroying Islam's third-holiest shrine in the process (the al Aqsa Mosque).

Israel has ingored dozens, literally, of UN Resolutions to give up the territory it stole from Syria and Lebanon and free the refugees that it keeps bottled up in suhuman, dependent conditions.

I'm also pissed at Hamas. Other than making an international stink, what was the point of killing civilians? They could have limited their revolt to militry targets. Now Israel is using this to pull Syria into the war to be destroyed (they envision).

It's like watching kindegarters with guns, and the USA and Israel are bullies, pathologically seeking to kill some of their fellow classmates. So far, the only sensible nations have been Yemen, Syria, and Iran.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Thursday, October 12, 2023 2:30 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Please note Israel's not-so subtle propagands

Quote:

IDF Spokesperson Jonathan Conricus said at the time, "Attacks, rockets were fired from Syria into Israel.


WRONG. They were fired into Israeli-occupied SYRIA. Whoever fired rockets from Syria fired into SYRIA.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Thursday, October 12, 2023 4:15 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Several websites make a good case for Hamas being an Israeli proxy.

Hamas was enabled by Israel to delegitimize the PLO under Yassir Arafat.
Quote:

How Israel helped create Hamas
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israe
l-helped-create-hamas
/



The article is enlightening, making the parallel between USA support of the 'mujahideen' to fight a leftist secular government. Mujahideen later became the Taliban. Similarly the PLO was also a secular leftist resistance group, and Israel enabling Hamas might have been a similar strategic mistake.

But it makes sense that Israeli intelligence "failed" in much the same way that USA intelligence "failed" on 9-11, both of which served as pretexts for war.


-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Thursday, October 12, 2023 4:30 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


No matter what has actually happened, the one thing you can be sure of is that you're not getting the truth from MSNBC, CNN or FOX News.

--------------------------------------------------

Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Thursday, October 12, 2023 6:09 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Netanyahu bolstered Hamas in order to thwart the creation of a Palestinian state

It’s impossible to close your eyes to the reality. There’s a clear connection between the corruption trial [of Benjamin Netanyahu], the government’s judicial overhaul, and the greatest failure since the Yom Kippur War of 1973, perhaps even since the establishment of the state.

Admittedly, the intelligence agencies failed inconceivably at foreseeing the actual attack. But they warned Netanyahu time and again in recent months that Israel’s enemies had identified a historic weakness, making the likelihood of war higher than it has been since the Second Lebanon War of 2006.

Yet instead of quelling Justice Minister Yariv Levin, National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir and Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich due to this danger, Netanyahu prioritized ensuring his personal survival and the integrity of his coalition at the price of capitulating to insane, messianic racists. To this end, he turned his domestic rivals into enemies and systematically destroyed the connective tissue that, with great difficulty, held Israel society together.

He and his partners in this criminal organization forgot that Israel isn’t Poland or Hungary, but first and foremost a country deeply embroiled in a national conflict. Consequently, it doesn’t have the privilege of entertaining itself with dictatorial games.

Effectively, Netanyahu’s entire worldview collapsed over the course of a single day. He was convinced that he could make deals with corrupt Arab tyrants while ignoring the cornerstone of the Arab-Jewish conflict, the Palestinians. His life’s work was to turn the ship of state from the course steered by his predecessors, from Yitzhak Rabin to Ehud Olmert, and make the two-state solution impossible. En route to this goal, he found a partner in Hamas.

“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,” he told a meeting of his Likud party’s Knesset members in March 2019. “This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank...”

https://dividedconquered.substack.com/p/israelis-pay-the-ultimate-pric
e-for


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, October 13, 2023 12:59 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,” he told a meeting of his Likud party’s Knesset members in March 2019. “This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank...”


Hubby read me that quote, but I had no idea it was that recent. Two websites,both run by pretty interesting analysts (Brian Berletic New Atlas and Simplicious the Thinker substack) also say the same. Since they've both been more right than wrong I have to look into that.


-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Friday, October 13, 2023 1:13 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I LOVE IT! I LOVE IT! I LOVE IT!!!!!

Now everybody gets to live in Conspiracy Theory Land.


Welcome to the 2020's where nothing is real and you'll never know what's actually true.

For those of you new here, try not to lose your heads. If you need any help navigating how to live on when you can't believe anything you're told, just reach out. There are plenty of veterans who have been dealing with it for years now.



--------------------------------------------------

Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Friday, October 13, 2023 8:58 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Eyeless in Gaza | Fintan O’Toole

In the Jewish legend, the great warrior Samson ends up, as John Milton famously puts it, “eyeless in Gaza.” He is blinded by the Philistines and harnessed to a huge millstone, forced to drag himself around and around in circles, always moving but unable to go anywhere. Eventually, in the most spectacular of suicides, he gets his revenge by pulling down their temple on top of the Philistines, killing both them and himself. The story is apparently supposed to be heroic, but it feels more like a fable of vicious futility. Cruelty begets cruelty until there is nothing left but mutual destruction.

In the Book of Judges, where we find the Samson story, God has delivered the children of Israel into subjugation by their enemies as punishment because they “did that which was evil in the sight of the Lord.” As it happens, Hamas’s forebears, the Muslim Brotherhood, held the same belief. The Harvard scholar of the Middle East Sara Roy tells us that, after Israel’s victory in the war of 1967, “the Brethren in Gaza especially remained convinced that the loss of Palestine was God’s punishment for neglecting Islam.” It seems that God has a peculiar way of chastising his various chosen peoples in Israel and Palestine: by inflicting them on each other. With millenarian religious believers in power on both sides of the Gaza wall, it seems that this blood-dimmed vision is again being played out as reality.

The Hamas incursion, in which more people died violently in Israel in a single day than ever before in the turbulent history of the state, is frightful. Even in the present state of the world, the murder, wounding, and kidnapping of so many defenseless civilians is shocking in its depravity. Hamas’s knowing provocation of Israel’s wrath against a Gazan population it cannot then defend shows that it cares as little for its own civilians as it does for the enemy’s. The dehumanization of the whole population of Gaza by Israel’s defense minister, Yoav Gallant, who said that “we are fighting against human animals,” and his explicit threat to deprive civilians of food and electricity are also profoundly disturbing. Retaliation against noncombatants has been established as Israel’s equal and opposite reaction to Hamas’s crimes and it foreshadows horrors even greater than the many hundreds of Gazans already killed by Israeli air strikes. Yet none of this is truly surprising. Nothing justifies these assaults, but when violence has become the only means of communication, everyone knows that its language will be spoken — and not in whispers but in screams.

*

It is hard, from the outside, to understand how Israel could have become so complacent about this inevitability. The country has historically had a strange naiveté about Islamism. In 1986, a year before Hamas was formed, Israel’s military governor of Gaza, General Yitzhak Segev, acknowledged that “We extend some financial aid to Islamic groups via mosques and religious schools in order to help create a force that would stand against the leftist forces which support the PLO.” Radical Islamism seemed a safer alternative to the more secular Fatah movement. But any notion that jihadism was somehow going to be nicer or more malleable than leftist Palestinian nationalism was surely vaporized a long time ago. Even if global events this century had not revealed the inherent murderousness of this strain of religious zealotry, Israel should have known from the start that Hamas’s rejection of the two-state solution supported by Fatah is rooted in the conviction that Palestine itself is a god-given Islamic endowment. The persistence in Israeli policy of the notion that Hamas is a useful force because it divides Palestinians has always seemed a form of willful blindness.

It might have made some sense had there been a consistent strategy of encouraging Hamas to move away from militarism. But democratic politics in Gaza and the West Bank collapsed after January 2006, when Hamas won what international observers judged to be fair and well-run elections for the Palestinian Legislative Council. Exit polls suggested that the main concern of voters was to end the flagrant corruption of Fatah’s rule. Yet both the US and Israel rejected those election results and imposed financial and other sanctions against the Palestinian National Authority. The message was clear: Palestinians would be punished for voting for the wrong people. Hamas would not be allowed to function as a democratic political party.

In Northern Ireland, a successful peace process was built by drawing Sinn Féin, the political wing of the extremely violent IRA, into democratic politics. The US, having strongly encouraged this process in Ireland, adopted the opposite strategy with Hamas. It was to be kept out of politics and its voters in Gaza were to be similarly isolated by being confined to the strip and kept in limbo. We will never know whether a different strategy might have allowed Hamas to shed its jihadist skin, but this brutal demonstration of the futility of electoral politics surely closed off that possibility.

Instead of a political process, Israel implicitly assumed that there can be such a thing as an acceptable level of violence: sporadic rocket attacks from Gaza on Israeli civilians followed by retaliatory incursions by Israel to inflict a greater retribution, often also on Palestinian civilians. The blockade became permanent as a fully institutionalized form of containment. Israel came to believe that the problem of Hamas could be literally walled off, penned behind concrete, and deflected by a forcefield of human intelligence gathering and electronic surveillance. Hence the stunned incredulity at the scale and effectiveness of Saturday’s assault.

Yet was it ever likely that keeping 2.3 million people in a state of suspended animation would make Israel safe? The idea seemed to be that the Gazans would learn from bitter experience that every suffering they inflicted on Israelis would be returned to them tenfold, and they would, as a result, be pacified. But that calculation depended on the notion that the ordinary inhabitants of Gaza have political agency, that they can in effect tell Hamas what to do or not to do. The problem is that it makes little sense to rely on the agency of people who have been rendered politically powerless. It’s impossible to tell people that their votes don’t count, force them to live in a state of humiliation and impotence, and then expect them to assert themselves collectively against a well-funded and deeply rooted jihadist movement that promises them both patriotic pride and religious redemption.

To understand why many Gazans could cheer on hideous atrocities against Israeli civilians, we have to remember what so many other asymmetric conflicts have taught us: absolute powerlessness corrupts absolutely. Strip away the capacity to make decisions and you also disable the faculty of moral responsibility. What Israelis experienced on October 7 was the terror of statelessness. Their extremist government, convinced that Israel was so safe that it could afford to turn its violence inward, against its own liberal infidels, had effectively abandoned them. They were back, for a terrible moment, in the world of European pogroms, where there was no state to defend them against the depredations of the mobs. It is easy to understand how sickeningly disorienting that would be for anyone, let alone for Jews for whom that dread is lodged in the very marrow of their bones. It is less easy for those who are still reeling from this nausea to reflect that this is what statelessness feels like for Palestinians too.

There is no doubt that Israel can, if it chooses, level Gaza city, kill many thousands of its inhabitants, and hunt down Hamas militants. It can, and presumably will, enact a biblical revenge. It may even believe that this time, if the punishment is sufficiently severe, the Gazans will learn a lesson they will never forget. But what lessons do people actually learn from the cruelties they applaud and the ones they suffer in return? Almost always, only that violence is the way of the world. For some, the wars become holy; for most they become just grimly unavoidable. Until there is a political settlement, atrocity will have its dominion. Samson will still be there, eyeless in Gaza, turning the terrible millstone that grinds lives to dust.

https://www.nybooks.com/online/2023/10/10/eyeless-in-gaza/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, October 13, 2023 12:07 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


If I were leadership in Israel right now, I'd go to the ends of the earth and hunt every last one of them down. That's what they should have done in the first place. Their weakness always lead to this inevitability.

But I'm not Israeli leadership. I'm not Jewish. Not my problem.


Everybody watch your backs today. These Animals are everywhere, pretty much in every country but Poland and Russia.

--------------------------------------------------

Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Friday, October 13, 2023 1:30 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Israelis blame Gov’t for Hamas massacre, say Netanyahu must resign - poll

An overwhelming majority of 86% of respondents, including 79% of coalition supporters, said the surprise attack from Gaza is a failure of the country's leadership.

By JERUSALEM POST STAFF

Updated: OCTOBER 13, 2023 14:43

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-767880


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, October 13, 2023 1:47 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Sure. Don't blame the actual murderers for murder.



I'll bet Democrats and NeoCons in America are eating this right up. Yanno... after a few decades of calling anybody who questioned if our own Government did the same thing on 9/11 conspiracy theorists.

What can you believe?

Pretty much nothing.

The 99.9% of people on this planet will never actually know what's really happening on any given day.



--------------------------------------------------

Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Friday, October 13, 2023 5:12 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Sure. Don't blame the actual murderers for murder.



I'll bet Democrats and NeoCons in America are eating this right up. Yanno... after a few decades of calling anybody who questioned if our own Government did the same thing on 9/11 conspiracy theorists.

What can you believe?

Pretty much nothing.

The 99.9% of people on this planet will never actually know what's really happening on any given day.

Israeli airstrikes have left thousands dead, hundreds of thousands homeless, and millions without food or water. Worse has happened:

In the Vietnam War, the US killed millions, dropped more tonnage of explosives on South Vietnam, a US ally, than tons of explosives dropped in WWII. How well did that work out for the US, 6ix?

After 9/11, all the terrorists on the four planes were dead, but the USA killed people by millions as retribution. How well did that work out for the US, 6ix?

The Gaza strip only has 2.3 million people, so it will be impossible for Israel to kill as many of the wrong people as the US has done, but even trying to achieve the USA's kill totals will work out pretty badly for Israel, as it did for the good old USA.

An estimated 3.6-3.8 million people have died indirectly in post-9/11 war zones, bringing the total death toll to at least 4.5-4.7 million and counting.
https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, October 13, 2023 11:14 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Early Intelligence Shows Hamas Attack Surprised Iranian Leaders, U.S. Says

The United States has collected multiple pieces of intelligence that show that key Iranian leaders were surprised by the Hamas attack in Israel, information that has fueled U.S. doubts that Iran played a direct role in planning the assault, according to several American officials.

The United States, Israel and key regional allies have not found evidence that Iran directly helped plan the attack, according to the U.S. officials, an Israeli official and another official in the Middle East.



MORE AT https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/11/us/politics/iran-israel-gaza-hamas-
us-intelligence.html



After swallowing whatever USA intelligence officials said, via the NYT, don't tell me you're going to start disbelieving them now??

Unfortunately asking cui bono? [who benefits?] potentially benefits a lot of different people, all on different sides.



-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Friday, October 13, 2023 11:27 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Palestinians rallied to the call to safeguard the Holy Mosque. It was not just Hamas; it was West Bank Palestinians and (for the first time, too, 1948 Palestinians who have Israeli passports) who all rose up to protect Al-Aqsa. Just to be clear, the rallying cry was not for Hamas; it was not for Palestinian nationalism. It was for Al-Aqsa -- an icon that goes to the heart of what it is to be Muslim (Sunni or Shi’a). It was a cry that resonated across the entire Islamic sphere.

Did the West not get it? Apparently not. It was right under their nose, but super high-tech Intel doesn’t do symbolic meaning. That was true for the 2006 Lebanon war too, by the way; "Israel" could not grasp the symbolism of Hezballah’s ‘Karbala’ stand.

In the intervening period, "Israel" has shattered into two equally weighted factions holding to two irreconcilable visions of "Israel’s" future; two mutually opposing readings of history and of what it means to be Jewish.

The fissure could not be more complete. Except it is. One faction, which holds a majority in parliament, is broadly Mizrahi -- a former underclass in Israeli society; and the other, largely well-to-do liberal Ashkenazi.

So, what has this to do with Al-Aqsa Flood? Well, the Right in Netanyahu’s government has two long-standing commitments. One is to rebuild the (Jewish) Temple on ‘Temple Mount’ (Haram al-Shariff).

Just to be clear, that would entail demolishing Al-Aqsa.

The second overriding commitment is to the founding of "Israel", on the "Land of Israel". And again, to be clear, this (in their view) would entail clearing Palestinians from the West Bank. Indeed, the settlers have been cleansing Palestinians from swaths of the West Bank over the past year (notably between Ramallah and Jehrico).

On Thursday morning (two days preceding Al-Aqsa Flood), more than 800 settlers stormed the Mosque Compound, under the full protection of Israeli forces. The drumbeat of such provocations is rising.


A whole lot more at https://english.almayadeen.net/articles/analysis/al-aqsa-flood:-the-su
rprise-is-that-some-are-surprised

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Saturday, October 14, 2023 1:52 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Sounds like we could learn a few lessons about clearing out illegal invaders out of our country from Israel.

America needs to sit down and STFU and let this play out.

At least it seems that the Democrat run shitholes had high police presence today. I haven't heard of anything bad happening as of yet.

Also, Hungary, France and Germany of all places put down a ban on any Pro-Palestinian demonstrations. It ain't much, but it's a start. I never thought I'd see the day.

It's time for every European nation to drive any sub-human Muslim mongrel out of their countries once and for all.

--------------------------------------------------

Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Saturday, October 14, 2023 6:44 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Sounds like we could learn a few lessons about clearing out illegal invaders out of our country from Israel.

America needs to sit down and STFU and let this play out.

At least it seems that the Democrat run shitholes had high police presence today. I haven't heard of anything bad happening as of yet.

Also, Hungary, France and Germany of all places put down a ban on any Pro-Palestinian demonstrations. It ain't much, but it's a start. I never thought I'd see the day.

It's time for every European nation to drive any sub-human Muslim mongrel out of their countries once and for all.

6ix, you are [not] a brilliant tactician to suggest handling illegal aliens in the US the same way Israel handles its illegal alien problem:

The Israeli air force on Thursday said it had dropped 6,000 bombs against Hamas targets so far — a staggering number over the course of six days, according to warfare experts.

“Israel is dropping in less than a week what the U.S. was dropping in Afghanistan in a year, in a much smaller, much more densely populated area, where mistakes are going to be magnified,” said Marc Garlasco, a military adviser at the Dutch organization PAX for Peace and a former U.N. war crimes investigator in Libya. He helped plan airstrikes for the Pentagon during the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

The highest number of bombs and other munitions dropped in one year during the war in Afghanistan was just over 7,423, Garlasco said, citing U.S. military records. During the entire war in Libya, the NATO alliance reported dropping more than 7,600 bombs and missiles from planes, according to a U.N. report.

Questions also emerged Thursday after video footage appeared to show Israel using white phosphorus in a strike on Gaza’s harbor. A video verified by The Washington Post that was filmed Wednesday shows the firing of two artillery shells, followed by white strings of smoke. The controversial munition can cause severe harm when used against civilians. Human Rights Watch said it had verified videos of the strike on Gaza’s harbor and another along the Israel-Lebanon border that it said appeared to show Israel’s use of white phosphorus.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/12/israel-seeks-end-hamas
-gaza-war
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, October 14, 2023 12:39 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Sounds like we could learn a few lessons about clearing out illegal invaders out of our country from Israel.

America needs to sit down and STFU and let this play out.

At least it seems that the Democrat run shitholes had high police presence today. I haven't heard of anything bad happening as of yet.

Also, Hungary, France and Germany of all places put down a ban on any Pro-Palestinian demonstrations. It ain't much, but it's a start. I never thought I'd see the day.

It's time for every European nation to drive any sub-human Muslim mongrel out of their countries once and for all.

6ix, you are [not] a brilliant tactician to suggest handling illegal aliens in the US the same way Israel handles its illegal alien problem:

The Israeli air force on Thursday said it had dropped 6,000 bombs against Hamas targets so far — a staggering number over the course of six days, according to warfare experts.



They're not bombing their own house because they never let the trash in their boarders in the first place.

We round them all up, ship them to the south and bomb 50 miles south of the Mexican side of the border until it's a canal.

Oh? A lot of them aren't from south of us you say? Tough titty. Mexico can deal with them.

--------------------------------------------------

Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Saturday, October 14, 2023 1:06 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Israel controls Gaza's access to water, food, electricity and fuel, making Gaza the biggest open-air prison in the world

SIX, since you buck being controlled by "the man" surely you can understand how Gazans feel about being completely under Israel's boot.

And since Israel shut off all of them, Gaza is RUNNING OUT OF WATER, according to the UN:

Quote:

A matter of life and death: water runs out for 2 million people in Gaza
No humanitarian supplies have been allowed into Gaza for a week
“It is a must; fuel needs to be delivered now into #Gaza to make water available for 2 million people”- UN RWA



A war crime. Israel is used to committing them by now.

*****

But apparently this isn't about Gaza, it's about the Al Aqsa mosque. We are all hostage to the information we do, or don't, see in our media.

Binyamin "Bibi" Netanyahu, Prime Minister of Israel, was in the process of being tried for corruption. The trial was interrupted by his winning election, but the only thing standing between him and jail (many say) is being PM. So he has a strong motive for staying in power!

His coalition includes extremely religious Mizrahi Jews... Jews from the Middle East (as opposed the European Jews, or Ashkenazi Jews, who tend to be secular and liberal). And these Mizrahi Jews are pushing Bibi to expand Israel to its Biblial borders and rebuild The Temple which they claim belongs on "Temple Mount". However, the al-Aqsa Mosque is there, and it would have to be destroyed. Israel has been controlling acces to al-Aqsa mosque for over a year, letting almost nobody in.

All of this is history.

What we DIDN'T read is that immediately prior to the Hamas attack, 800 Jewish settlers rampaged thru al-Aqsa Mosque, which is a touchstone for all Muslims. It's the equivalent of Muslims rampaging thru the Basilica in Rome, or Notre Dame, planning to destroy it to build a mosque. IMHO I have no religious attachment to these cathedrals, but they ARE significant historic and cultural monuments in addition to places of worship, and their wanton destruction would really piss me off. (Let's hope France rebuilds Notre Dame.)

So, if you wanted to piss off ALL Muslims - Shia, Sunni, Alwawite etc .... you should threaten the al-Aqsa Mosque!

That probably explains why Syrians are talking to Iranians and Saudis are talking to both.

Israel has sure stirred up a hornet's nest! Will we see retaliation in the form of an oil and/or gas embargo? Will USA bases be kicked out of the Muslim world? Will Israle be pressured into giving up the territories that it currently militarily occupies ... namely, the west bank of Jordan (far eastern side of Israel), the Golan Heights and the Gaza strip?

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Saturday, October 14, 2023 2:12 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Israel controls Gaza's access to water, food, electricity and fuel, making Gaza the biggest open-air prison in the world

SIX, since you buck being controlled by "the man" surely you can understand how Gazans feel about being completely under Israel's boot.

And since Israel shut off all of them, Gaza is RUNNING OUT OF WATER, according to the UN:



They are animals who had their brains hollowed out by a backwards and extremely violent religion. They're a bunch of murderers, rapists and pedophiles who are not only forgiven by their "god" for such behavior, but their "god" encourages it.

Fuck Muslims.

I'm no fan of Israel either, and I've never been comfortable with our relationship with them.

Cut them all off. No money. No arms. No munitions for anyone. Let them fuck each other up, with sticks and stones if it is still going on after the ordinance runs out, and we'll deal with whoever is left if they decide then that they want to bring their shit here.

Meanwhile, round them all up here along with the rest of the illegal invaders currently camping out in America on the Taxpayer's dime and make them Mexico's problem. If Mexico doesn't like it, tough shit. They better build a wall and make sure everybody in the world knows that they're not coming up to America through their country.

--------------------------------------------------

Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Saturday, October 14, 2023 2:18 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


The Jerusalem Post either wishes Violent Death for the bulk of Palestinians or else, albeit unlikely, this opinion piece was unintentionally posted:

How did God let Hamas massacre so many Israelis? - Opinion By Stewart Weiss

We must recognize Hamas and Hezbollah and the bulk of the Palestinians for what they indisputably are: the modern-day reincarnation of the Nazis. There is no limit to their evil.
October 14, 2023 09:47

In the aftermath of the horrendous Simchat Torah terror, we are left to grapple with not only the tragedy itself but also with its spiritual implications and our ability to carry on with “normal” life in its wake.

On a spiritual level, two theological questions cry out to us: Is there justice in the world? And what is the nature of a God of love and mercy in a world filled with evil? When we witness the brutal murder of both soldiers and civilians, the young and old, we are numbed and bewildered, at a loss to make religious sense of it all. We feel helpless at even beginning to comprehend the ways of God.

I must say up front that, try as we might, we will never find an absolute answer to these questions, one that will completely satisfy us and ease our existential pain.

In the words of Rabbi Yannai in Ethics of the Fathers, “It is not in our hands to understand either the serenity of those who are evil or the suffering of those who are righteous.”

Understanding God in a time of tragedy

To fully understand the mystery of life and death, to truly know God, we would, in essence, have to be God! And we are not God; we are mortals; frail, fallible beings, with a less than cosmic comprehension.

Yet, we can still try to explore different perspectives on these issues and gain some insight that may at least allow us to maintain faith and carry on with our lives. The rabbis, to begin with, make it clear that all events emanate from God.

Says the Talmud, “No one so much as cuts his finger in the world below unless it is so ordained in the world above.”

King Solomon, the wisest of people, declares in Proverbs: “God made everything for a purpose; even the evil person did God create for the day of evil.”

The great sage Hillel confirms God’s omniscience when he observes a skull floating on the water and concludes “Because you drowned others, so were you drowned. But those who drowned you shall themselves, in turn, be drowned.”

In other words, says Hillel, there is order and justice in the universe; there is a master plan, a guiding hand that makes sure things ultimately end up as they are meant to be.

YET THIS hardly satisfies our need for clarity in the wake of such terrible events as this week. We need consolation, something of substance that we can hang on to. And so there are two responses that we can turn to for solace. One is the plea of Moses, who witnessed the cruel abuse and torture of his people while in slavery, and – like us – pleaded with God, “Show me Your glory;” i.e., “Where is justice in the universe?”

God obliquely replies, “You cannot see My face; you can only see My back.”

Essentially, God is saying, “You see only a tiny glimpse of events in the world; you see life through a keyhole. When you will have perspective and look back at all that has transpired in a bigger picture, you will better understand and appreciate all that has happened.” And that is why, despite all our hardships and suffering in Egyptian bondage, we today celebrate Passover as a joyous, happy occasion.

But there is another approach as well, one which I personally connect and subscribe to. God created this world with imperfection built in, challenging us to do whatever it takes to perfect it. God gave us the tools, the inclination, the drive, and desire, as well as the capability to make this world better on every level – scientifically, medically, agriculturally, and spiritually.

We were commanded to hate evil and eradicate it from our midst, to pursue a moral, sanctified existence, and to wage war against those who would drag humanity down to their level of degradation, debasement, and death. In short, we were inspired to become active partners with God, with the ultimate goal of “improving the world under the kingship of God.”

THIS GREAT struggle of Good vs Evil has existed since the dawn of time, and we have been right in the thick of it from the moment Judaism began. From Abraham’s call to a resistant world to recognize One God; Jacob’s battle with the malevolent angel; Moses’ confrontation with the despotic Pharaoh; the Maccabees’ revolt against the Greeks; Rabbi Akiva’s rebellion against the cruel Romans, we stood up and fought the good fight.

Now, we in Israel have taken up the charge. We are blessed to have a morally pristine, holy army of righteous soldiers who are at the forefront of the struggle to secure our homeland and eradicate the global threat of terrorism – epitomized by the Palestinians – which has brought only suffering and moral sickness to an entire planet.

It is, sadly, a lonely battle, with few allies and much danger. But it is a noble cause, representing all that is good and just, and we cannot abdicate our responsibility nor shirk our God-given duty. We must answer the call, come what may.

It's us versus them

We must recognize Hamas and Hezbollah and the bulk of the Palestinians for what they indisputably are: the modern-day reincarnation of the Nazis. There is no limit to their evil, no atrocity which they are incapable of perpetrating. We have seen it now on video after video, the wanton slaughter of innocent women and children and the gleeful jubilation and widespread approval of their respective populations. Upon these monsters, there can be no mercy, no accommodation whatsoever. For too long, we not only tolerated them, we coddled them; handing them millions of dollars in $100 bills, sending hundreds of trucks laden with supplies to keep them going. Now we must do what we should have done long ago: deny them food, water, oil, gas, and medicine. In the choice between Them and Us, I vote for Us.

To the many who are now grieving – or may grieve in the future – you must remain stalwart and strong despite the excruciating pain.

The first great heroes and heroines of the Torah had to begin their lives again after experiencing great tragedy: Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden of Eden; Noah’s world disappeared into the Great Flood; and Abraham and Sara had to leave their ancestral homeland for new lives in the Land of Israel. Their experiences put into our DNA the ability to start over when our world is decimated, as has happened so often on our historical journey.

To all those whose loved ones have made the ultimate sacrifice, may you take comfort in the knowledge that you are the backbone of our country and, by extension, all of the Jewish people. An entire nation stands behind you, sharing in your grief, and we owe you an immeasurable debt of gratitude.

May you, too, have the strength and courage to go on to lead full lives of joy and peace, surrounded by our love, in the knowledge that those who died enable all of us to live.

The writer is the director of the Jewish Outreach Center of Ra’anana, whose son Ari was killed in Nablus in 2002. This article is dedicated to the memory of Ra’ananites Arieh Shlomo Ziering and Amir Skoury, who fell in battle during this week’s fighting

https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-768036

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, October 14, 2023 2:50 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Israel controls Gaza's access to water, food, electricity and fuel, making Gaza the biggest open-air prison in the world

SIX, since you buck being controlled by "the man" surely you can understand how Gazans feel about being completely under Israel's boot.

And since Israel shut off all of them, Gaza is RUNNING OUT OF WATER, according to the UN...

SIX: They are animals who had their brains hollowed out by a backwards and extremely violent religion. They're a bunch of murderers, rapists and pedophiles who are not only forgiven by their "god" for such behavior, but their "god" encourages it.

Fuck Muslims.


No, they're not. Not all Muslims are head-chopping backbirths. Just like not all Republicans are rabid pro-corporatist warmongers with blood on their teeth. Unfortunately Saudis funded a lot of extremist madrases with their enormous wealth, but many places outside of Saudi influence are quite reasonable. Hamas, BTW, and Saudi Arabia don't get along.

Quote:

I'm no fan of Israel either, and I've never been comfortable with our relationship with them.

Cut them all off. No money. No arms. No munitions for anyone. Let them fuck each other up, with sticks and stones if it is still going on after the ordinance runs out, and we'll deal with whoever is left if they decide then that they want to bring their shit here.

Agreed. Unfortunately the Zionist lobby has a stranglehold on both Dems and Repubs.

Quote:

SIX: Meanwhile, round them all up here along with the rest of the illegal invaders currently camping out in America on the Taxpayer's dime and make them Mexico's problem. If Mexico doesn't like it, tough shit. They better build a wall and make sure everybody in the world knows that they're not coming up to America through their country.


Legal immigrants can stay, unless they break a law.


-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Saturday, October 14, 2023 3:21 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

The current lethal iteration of Israeli/Palestinian Kabuki started, as far as the media and public opinion is concerned, with the Hamas attack last Saturday on young Israelis celebrating Sukkot in the arid fields adjacent to the Gaza Strip and the invasion of settlements and Israeli military outposts along that border. Hamas rightly earned the condemnation of most countries for the mass killing of civilians. If Hamas had only attacked Israeli military targets it would have been in a stronger political position as far as international opinion is concerned. But, Hamas has a long history of shooting itself in the proverbial foot.

The second act in this play was a flood of propaganda and emotional reactions. Israel was quick out of the starting gate with the now debunked claim that Hamas beheaded forty Jewish babies. That upped the outrage quotient, especially in American and Europe, to levels not seen since the Black September attack on Israeli olympians in Munich in 1972. Ukrainian flags disappeared throughout the West and the standard of Israel was unfurled in symbolic shows of support.

Now comes the third act. Israel sabotages itself by carrying out “retaliatory strikes” that, instead of blowing up military targets, kills journalists, children and mothers. Those images (such as the ones below) spread around the Islamic world, adding fuel to outrage and building sympathy for Palestinian claims that they are victims of genocide. Israel’s demand that the Palestinians in the northern refugee camps in the Gaza Strip abandon their homes and flee to the south simply adds to the narrative that Israel is the bad guy in this conflict. Barring a new Hamas attack on Israeli civilians, the political momentum is swinging back in Hamas’s favor. The three images/videos that follow illustrate what I am talking about: Today, for example, Israel bombed a civilian column heading south as requested by Israel. Most people in the West will not see this video but muslims around the world will.


Go here for the videos, the url won't copy.
https://sonar21.com/the-malevolent-kabuki-theater-of-israels-war-with-
palestinians
/

Quote:

An Al Jazeeras cameraman, along with two of his colleagues, also was shredded by an Israeli bomb on their vehicle:


And no, 40 babies weren't beheaded, and an Israeli school was not attacked (on Saturday??)


Just to add one more thing: Remember the 6-day war, when Israel said it felt "threatened" by Egypt?

Menachim Begin,then PM, admitted long afterwards that Israel did not feel threatened by Egypt, that it was simply a war to acquire land.

Quote:

Israel Defense Forces launched preemptive air strikes that crippled the air forces of Egypt and its allies. Israel then staged a successful ground offensive and seized the Sinai Peninsula and the Gaza Strip from Egypt, the West Bank and East Jerusalem from Jordan, and the Golan Heights from Syria.




******

Quote:

Living in the “West,” consuming what passes for mainstream media in the West, it would be almost as hard to understand the motives and methods of the Jewish Fighting Organization in 1943 by reading Nazi propaganda as it would be to understand Hamas today through the western media’s distorted lens.

We can start with where they start the narrative. Very predictably, because their narratives always start the same way. It always begins with “Hamas launched an attack.”



-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM



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Saturday, October 14, 2023 6:17 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Israel controls Gaza's access to water, food, electricity and fuel, making Gaza the biggest open-air prison in the world

SIX, since you buck being controlled by "the man" surely you can understand how Gazans feel about being completely under Israel's boot.

And since Israel shut off all of them, Gaza is RUNNING OUT OF WATER, according to the UN...

SIX: They are animals who had their brains hollowed out by a backwards and extremely violent religion. They're a bunch of murderers, rapists and pedophiles who are not only forgiven by their "god" for such behavior, but their "god" encourages it.

Fuck Muslims.


No, they're not. Not all Muslims are head-chopping backbirths. Just like not all Republicans are rabid pro-corporatist warmongers with blood on their teeth. Unfortunately Saudis funded a lot of extremist madrases with their enormous wealth, but many places outside of Saudi influence are quite reasonable. Hamas, BTW, and Saudi Arabia don't get along.



I never said they were a hive-mind. They're far too stupid to ever coalesce like that.

But they NEVER come out and condemn any terrorist actions. Never. Not once. Not even the ones who were here legally. They condone it, even if they are too housebroken to do it themselves anymore.

Quote:

Quote:

I'm no fan of Israel either, and I've never been comfortable with our relationship with them.

Cut them all off. No money. No arms. No munitions for anyone. Let them fuck each other up, with sticks and stones if it is still going on after the ordinance runs out, and we'll deal with whoever is left if they decide then that they want to bring their shit here.

Agreed. Unfortunately the Zionist lobby has a stranglehold on both Dems and Repubs.



It's a good thing that we don't have a working house right now. Israel isn't getting any money from us without Speakership. I hope they finally vote somebody in and then just one person steps up and gets the process to rip them right out again.

Quote:

Quote:

SIX: Meanwhile, round them all up here along with the rest of the illegal invaders currently camping out in America on the Taxpayer's dime and make them Mexico's problem. If Mexico doesn't like it, tough shit. They better build a wall and make sure everybody in the world knows that they're not coming up to America through their country.


Legal immigrants can stay, unless they break a law.



Agreed. But no more immigrants, legal or otherwise, no matter where they come from. I'm not saying never again, but at least until we finally start making this country work for the legal citizens again. We're broke and we're broken. We don't need anybody else in here taking the dwindling resources.

--------------------------------------------------

Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.

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Sunday, October 15, 2023 7:22 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Agreed. But no more immigrants, legal or otherwise, no matter where they come from. I'm not saying never again, but at least until we finally start making this country work for the legal citizens again. We're broke and we're broken. We don't need anybody else in here taking the dwindling resources.

This country already works well, but not for people who are financial ignoramuses. The article that explains what you need to learn so that your life works well is "I Saw Thousands of Bank Account Details as a Teller. It Taught Me 3 Lessons Millions Never Learn." In the title, the word Millions should be replaced with 200 Million to make the size of the problem clearer.
https://www.inc.com/kelly-main/i-saw-thousands-of-bank-account-details
-as-a-teller-it-taught-me-3-lessons-millions-never-learn.html


After all, it's not just about what you earn, it's also about what you keep. And from my time as a teller, those who employed these three principles were those who were the most well-off -- not just in terms of financial well-being, but also in terms of happiness and general well-being. Because when you don't have the burden of immense financial stress, you have something everyone wants and the overarching goal of having money: financial freedom.

Then there is "My in-laws are terrible with money. What should I do?"
https://www.vox.com/even-better/23912950/parents-money-personal-financ
e-advice-how-to


Start talking to your husband, right now, about what you’re going to say when your in-laws ask to live with you. Given the current housing market, it’s a much more likely scenario than the one in which they travel the world.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, October 15, 2023 8:23 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


The Peril in Declaring ‘I Stand With Israel’
Such sentiments stymie discussion of the harder questions around Israel’s treatment of Palestinians.

By Howard W. French, a columnist at Foreign Policy.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/10/13/i-stand-with-israel-hamas-war-gaz
a-palestinians-human-rights-occupation
/

The cascade of emotion and revulsion over the heinous tactics used by Hamas to deliberately target, kill, and kidnap Israeli civilians in surprise cross-border raids from Gaza last weekend has been remarkable to behold, and entirely appropriate.

Like millions of others, I have followed the news compulsively over the last several days. I saw journalists from the United States and other countries jettison their customary guise of studied neutral objectivity as they reported on the unspeakable nature of these events. Many freely exuded their empathy and even identification with Israelis who had just lost loved ones or narrowly escaped attacks on unarmed civilians. In one instance, I watched a reporter from the U.S.-based PBS network tear up as he spoke remotely from a studio with an Israeli woman whose husband had gone missing during these awful events.

Amid this outpouring of feeling and support, a short and blunt statement has been adopted so widely by U.S. President Joe Biden and other U.S. officials and politicians that it has almost instantly achieved the status of a stock phrase: “I stand with Israel.”

But one effect of an expression such as this that so thoroughly captures a well-justified sense of outrage—as in the case over the recent Hamas attacks—is that it can block out further thought, and especially the asking of hard and necessary questions. Those who violate the unwritten decorum established amid the shock of atrocities face the shushing disapproval of others that signals that now is not the time for deeper thought.

The unfortunate reality is that it has almost never been the right time for Israel or the Western countries that count as its steadiest supporters—led by the United States—to probe the hard questions that stem from the existence of millions of Palestinians who subsist in various states of what have come to seem, evermore, like permanent inequality and legal inferiority under Israel’s authority or control.

In the wake of Hamas’s crimes, we have been told with metronomic regularity that there can be no excuse for organized armed attacks against defenseless Israeli civilians—and that much is true. We are also told there can be no legitimate equivalency drawn between the actions of Israel and those of violence-prone nonstate enemies, including Hamas, Hezbollah, and other militant groups. This is a more complicated matter, given the role of both the Israeli state and Israeli settlers in killing Palestinians with relative impunity over the years. But even if one accepts this principle, neither of these notions encourage further thought. And this is precisely the time when further thought is most desperately required.

It should not require condoning the violent tactics of groups such as Hamas or the atrocities they commit to understand that Israel’s own behavior toward Palestinians has long been deeply troubling and problematic. It is not establishing a false equivalency or blithely writing off acts of terrorism to observe that Israel has not been willing to grant rights to Palestinians that would be recognized by a dispassionate observer as anything remotely approaching equal or fair. In fact, under the long rule of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, as well as a string of his predecessors, meaningful conversations about a just dispensation for Palestinians have been largely off the table.

I don’t write these words as a deeply credentialled expert in the Middle East, or even as an expert in this region at all, even if I have traveled a bit in it, and once, years ago, interviewed Netanyahu myself by telephone. To some extent, my thoughts are informed instead by universal notions of justice, as well as by common sense.

Most of all, though, they lean on what many Israelis themselves acknowledge about the stark regime of inequality, unfairness, and violence that their country imposes on the Palestinians, who fall under several different legal regimes and live among—or, as in Gaza, in stark confinement in immediate proximity to—Israeli Jews.

If Israelis can acknowledge these things, those who count themselves as true friends of the country should be able to do so as well, and far more openly. But at least insofar as openness about this nuance is concerned, this has been a persistent problem.

This week, a striking opinion piece appeared in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz that captured this dissonance. While “I stand with Israel” was still the standard refrain in the United States, the headline read: “Israel Can’t Imprison Two Million Gazans Without Paying a Cruel Price.” The writer, Gideon Levy, spoke of Israeli arrogance: “the idea that we can do whatever we like, that we’ll never pay the price and be punished for it. We’ll carry on undisturbed.”

“We’ll arrest, kill, harass, dispossess and protect the settlers busy with their pogroms,” Levy continued. “We’ll fire at innocent people, take out people’s eyes and smash their faces, expel, confiscate, rob, grab people from their beds, carry out ethnic cleansing and of course continue with the unbelievable siege of the Gaza Strip, and everything will be all right.”

Two years ago, the Israeli human rights group B’Tselem likened Israel’s dominion over Palestinian populations to South African apartheid. “One of the key points of our analysis,” said Hagai El-Ad, the group’s director, speaking of the entire area between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River, “is that this is a single geopolitical area ruled by one government. This is not democracy plus occupation. This is apartheid between the river and the sea.”

Israelis in large numbers, as well as many non-Israeli Jews and other people who sympathize with Israel as a state created in the wake of the European Holocaust, bridle and stew over comparisons between Israel and South Africa under apartheid, and it is easy to understand why.

What is harder to do, though, is to explain away how having roughly 7 million people of Palestinian descent living with unequal rights under Israeli authority, many of them confined in places such as Gaza or squirreled away in discontinuous parcels of homeland on the West Bank that are under constant pressure from expanding Israeli settlements, is consistent with ideas of democracy, or even of approximate equity.

In Italy two weeks ago, I attended a lecture by Amira Hass, a daughter of Holocaust victims who is said to be the lone accredited Israeli journalist to reside amid Palestinians in the West Bank. She has previously lived in Gaza as well. Hass described in detail the elaborate ways in which Palestinians are marginalized or made virtually invisible, such as road signs in the West Bank written only in Hebrew (and not in Arabic or English) that skip mention of Palestinian settlements and methods of counting—or not counting—this population that have promoted the illusion that the lands Israel controls are predominantly Jewish.

“Look, the current reality is actually one state, which is an apartheid state,” Hass has bravely written. She continued:

This means there are two separate laws: one for Palestinians and one for Israeli Jews. The Palestinian population is subdivided into groups and subgroups like the nonwhite population of South Africa. They’re disconnected from each other. They are treated differently by Israel, while Israeli Jews live in the entire country, like one people, with full rights. The question is: How sustainable is this? We assume it’s not sustainable. But so far, it’s working fine for Israel—it has been sustainable. Because the world has accepted it. In the past, we used to say that the world would not accept it, but it does.

Hass wrote these words four years ago. For those who say they stand with Israel, these words should encourage a deeper conversation and a sense of urgency. With mass collective punishment and death on a large scale of Palestinians trapped in Gaza now a real possibility, the stakes are higher than ever.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, October 15, 2023 9:07 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Despite the daunting obstacles, I still see little alternative to a two-state solution. It is even possible that the current hostilities will help to persuade Israelis as well as Americans that the long and uncertain road to a two-state solution is worth pursuing. The attack by Hamas showed that the threat posed by Palestinian radicals is greater than had generally been understood. It is, of course, very unlikely that Hamas or Hezbollah or any other hostile force will be able to conquer and hold Israeli territory. (Some news reports suggest Hamas intended to capture territory, but this is so crazy it is hard to believe.) But the ability of Hamas, Hezbollah, and other groups to rain missiles down on Israel and overwhelm Israeli defenses will likely grow, and improvements in drones and other technologies may make Israeli society perennially vulnerable to highly damaging attacks. It is not inconceivable that perpetual conflict with Palestinians and other opponents armed with more numerous and sophisticated weapons will make it difficult for normal life to proceed in Israel, just as the threat of ongoing conflict with Russia could undermine an economic recovery in Ukraine, even if Ukraine recaptures all of its territory.

https://angrybearblog.com/2023/10/the-two-state-solution-still-looks-l
east-bad-to-me


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, October 15, 2023 12:51 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Israel is warned by Lebanon’s Hezbollah that Israel should stop its attacks on Gaza

Israel considers Hezbollah its most serious immediate threat, estimating it has some 150,000 rockets and missiles, including precision-guided missiles that can hit anywhere in Israel. The group, which has thousands of battle-hardened fighters who participated in Syria’s 12-year conflict, also has different types of military drones.

Hezbollah fighters have been on full alert along Lebanon’s borders with Israel following last Saturday’s attack by the militant Palestinian group Hamas that left hundreds of Israeli civilians and soldiers dead.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/14/irans-foreign-minister-warns-
israel-it-could-suffer-a-huge-earthquake-00121580


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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